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RED Epic - better than the IQ180 ?

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Googaliser

Guest
I haven't posted for a while partly because I have spent most of my free time getting to grips with RED's new Epic camera system - one that I expect over time will give MF manufacturers real cause for concern.
I didn't think we were there yet though, but fyi - RED's founder today claimed on their forum that the Epic outperformed an IQ180 in a recent pano shot of Vegas.

I feel quite torn about this so wanted to flag here for those who are interested and unconflicted in their views.

link here

Marc
 
G

Googaliser

Guest
Ha ! I'd love to hear all sides of this debate. RED is real - and it has funding, vision and momentum. We should all be following its progress. They also have a 645 chipped camera on the drawing board....
 

jonoslack

Active member
Interesting discussion - I spent a happy afternoon talking to someone about Epic, Cooke lenses and other esoterics . . . It makes money spent on Hassy / Phase or Leica pale into insignificance!
 

thrice

Active member
Am I missing something? Even the Leica M9 could have reproduced that scene with similar DR...

I wish I could see the final print or a full res image, I'd like to compare it to one of my M9 stitched panos, from a much smaller (and cheaper) package.
 
G

Googaliser

Guest
Interesting discussion - I spent a happy afternoon talking to someone about Epic, Cooke lenses and other esoterics . . . It makes money spent on Hassy / Phase or Leica pale into insignificance!
Its a whole different ballgame Jono and top quality glass is indeed occupies a different price realm altogether. A set (8) of Leica Summilux-C lenses will set you back $200K :wtf:

Fortunately, RED have launched a fully electronic canon lens mount, also catering for AF, although I am yet to receive mine. This should help with the transition for many photographers. The system is modular so you just remove the PL mount and add the canon one.

My personal favourites are the Arri Master primes. 12mm f/1.2 anyone ? The potential for low-light landscapes and timelapse is enormous here.

I recently was asked to take a family portrait - Parents, hyperactive 3 year old, 6 month old. For fun - I shot it on the Epic at 120fps and took 15MP full frame grabs. In one minute, I had about 30 usable shots and didn't require strobes. Trying doing that with a stills camera !!
 
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Shelby Lewis

Guest
I think the RED products are really groundbreaking... but how will they serve someone, like me, who works at closer to 1 frame per 10 seconds (ie, RZ67).

I don't want faster... I want a slow and personal connection with my subject that RED surely could fill, but it would be akin to using an M-16 as a one-shot sniper rifle. Capable, but incorrectly purposed.

I think it RED REALLY has it's place and is doing amazing things... but "better" is a subjective term that throws a pretty wide blanket over things. In terms of the IQ180, are we talking about image quality or functionality?

Beautiful shot, BTW!
 

Bryan Stephens

Workshop Member
I guess it all depends on what your needs are, and how much of the kids college fund you are willing to spend. I am personally more along the lines of you Shelby in that unless I am shooting a sporting event, I take my time.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Does it say anywhere how many frames with red compared to the 180 . If its 20 to 3 than sure it would look better.

I'm very happy for the RED system and what it brings to that market. I'm just a still guy and can't find my way into that medium at all on a artistic level.
 

Bryan Stephens

Workshop Member
Much better than what my wife would probably say. If I told her I wanted to buy a new digital camera system and a few lenses for about $100k she would say "Divorce".:LOL:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Fantastic.

I spent 40 years of my life involved in motion work. Totally alternate world. No doubt the most influential visual medium for the past 50 years ... and RED is one of next steps in its evolution ... along with cell phone video ;)

The thought process for creating motion is so different ... and post is a whole other kettle of fish.

Still photography is my retirement plan ... kick back and take it easy.

-Marc
 

Graham Mitchell

New member
Am I missing something?
No you're not.

It's a nice image, but the fanboy comments based on a small JPEG are a bit of a joke. You could get the same result with most $1K SLRs after the same 'grading' and tone mapping. Calling it a Phase-beater because they stitched enough images together to beat it is pointless. Any Canikon user could claim the same. It's still not giving you that much resolution in one shot mode (14MP?) That's fantastic for video, obviously. They also don't mention what kind of exposure controls you have. Can you make a 30 second exposure with it? 1/4000th? Can you shoot stills at all or do you have to pull a frame from video? If so, can you shoot stills tethered? I doubt it. Can you even use flash with it? Too many things are missing to make this a serious stills tool. A bit like oohing and aahing over a Canon 5Dii as a video camera - it can pull off some neat tricks but it's fairly limited.
 
Heh... that photo has stirred a lot of discussion on multiple forums. Honestly, I don't really care for it. I do dig the Red Epic quite a bit however. Here's a little dynamic range test I did in my living room. The curtains and the light fixtures blew me away.

Phase One P65+, Schneider 35mm XL APO-Digitar, straight out of C1 Pro HDR sliders used to get max detail



Red Epic, Cooke Panchro/i 18mm, straight out of RedCine-X



As mentioned above, this **** does get DAMN expensive!
 

cunim

Well-known member
I am not sure I understand the excitement about motion. The thought of armies of photographers shotgunning mediocre pictures at 24fps is...unsettling. The linked picture has all the subtelty of fully made up Vegas show girl. There is a right place for that, but quality still photography is a different beast. We are stuggling to understand how the still and motion fields can interact when the answer may be that they do not, really.

Making good motion takes a level of teamwork that provides a serious entry barrier. I have great respect for the photographers who are trying to penetrate that barrier, but I doubt that many will succeed commercially by using still production methods to acquire motion.

What amazes me is that some of you are managing to implement electrical/lighting, cinematography, grip, location, props, post, etc etc all with tiny resource bases. This is a grand experiment and interesting to watch. How well can still photographers grow to accomodate motion technical challenges and the rather intense business model? As I said, an experiment in professional evolution and we can hope it all works.

Taking technically questionable motion of a wedding or local fashion show and hoping that some of the frames will be of professional still quality..... I doubt that will be particularly rewarding.
 

Valentin

New member
..There is a right place for that, but quality still photography is a different beast. We are stuggling to understand how the still and motion fields can interact when the answer may be that they do not, really...
It depends on the application. For example, for a journalist, being able to select which DECISIVE moment to pick is big. For a landscape photographer it doesn't any appeal.

I just came back from PPE (PhotoPlus Expo) ... a quarter of products were video related (DSLR).
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
It depends on the application. For example, for a journalist, being able to select which DECISIVE moment to pick is big. For a landscape photographer it doesn't any appeal.
:thumbup: I would agree with that. I know that when I shot on safari last year that firing off bursts of images at 9fps with my D3s generally got me one keeper out of ten that shooting single shots wouldn't have matched. Ditto I can see that for journalism and action photography that this video approach could provide the choice of decisive frame, so long as you caught at least one.

For landscape & scenic work I'm not yet convinced. However, I'll readily admit that I don't know what I don't know with respect to techniques with the RED to capture these types of images. Maybe I'm missing something here - are these landscapes shot in video mode or just single frames?

The DR of Chris Barrrett's example is impressive - at this level of presentation at least. The Peter Lik example looked almost CGI or cartoon like but then perhaps it is absolutely stunning in person. It looks artificial in that smallish jpg. Now if they posted an example at full resolution using something like Zoomify then we might be able to make a better judgement call.

Btw, "better than an IQ180" - better in what way? Too broad a description to really mean anything. My iPhone is better than an IQ180 at being a portable phone with a camera ...
 

pophoto

New member
:
Btw, "better than an IQ180" - better in what way? Too broad a description to really mean anything. My iPhone is better than an IQ180 at being a portable phone with a camera ...
I know if I ever bought a MF camera, I would have friends that think there are many conditions a 35mm DSLR would be btter suited for, and think that the money I'd have spent a waste! Whereas, while there maybe some truth to what they might argue, I will know what and where it counts for it's worth. Usually the word better used in these context are attention seeking, with reason of course. No doubt, I think the RED EPIC is..... well, err... EPIC! :)
 
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