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Thread: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

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    Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Took my first pictures with my IQ140 today.
    When I zoom in, I discovered a lot of grey spots.
    Looks like dust??
    Anyone knows what it is? Dead pixels?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    It could be scuz on the sensor glass, or just a lot of dust? It may be a defective marred or scratched sensor glass which is normally expensive but should be under warranty.
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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Well, I just took it from the dealer, straight to the studio.
    So I will (should) not pay whatever it is .-)

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    How about a few specifics like ... ISO, Exposure time etc.

    More likely noise than dust but why do you ask?

    Are you planning on a series at max magnification...200% on glossy 11x14s?

    Michael Reichmann calls it pixel peeping .... does the photo on the left not appeal?

    Get real...and start shooting. These backs are good for a million exposures...start looking for a few good ones.

    Just a thought.

    Bob

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    I don't know if your comments are fair. If I just got a brand new expensive back I certainly would be looking closely at the files to make sure all was OK so I could report any fault back to my dealer immediately.


    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    How about a few specifics like ... ISO, Exposure time etc.

    More likely noise than dust but why do you ask?

    Are you planning on a series at max magnification...200% on glossy 11x14s?

    Michael Reichmann calls it pixel peeping .... does the photo on the left not appeal?

    Get real...and start shooting. These backs are good for a million exposures...start looking for a few good ones.

    Just a thought.

    Bob

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    Member Lee Love's Avatar
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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Willow did you clean the sensor before returning the back to see if it was simply dust ?

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    I don't know if your comments are fair. If I just got a brand new expensive back I certainly would be looking closely at the files to make sure all was OK so I could report any fault back to my dealer immediately.
    Terry,

    You are correct if there is a problem...having had a number of backs I am at a loss to see a major problem...if there were a scratch it would be magnified and not as pinpoint as I see...could be dust but not in my experience...again bigger not as pinpoint...

    Still would like to see the EXIF data....really a dark part of the pic...what happens with a less dark area on the same part of the sensor?

    How was this developed? C1 or something less amenable to low lighting?

    And yes at these prices anything out of the normal should be returned...just not sure we are there yet.

    Bob

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    How about a few specifics like ... ISO, Exposure time etc.

    More likely noise than dust but why do you ask?

    Are you planning on a series at max magnification...200% on glossy 11x14s?

    Michael Reichmann calls it pixel peeping .... does the photo on the left not appeal?

    Get real...and start shooting. These backs are good for a million exposures...start looking for a few good ones.

    Just a thought.

    Bob
    Its 50 ISO, 1/320 and flash.

    I do not think noise looks like that.

    And, when you buy something new and expensive, its wise to check it out
    before you starts shooting for clients.

    I am not into pixel peeping, but I like to be sure that what I pay for is in
    top shape.
    It is not uncommon to buy faulty equipment because of bad quality control.

    And if a snide comment is the only thing you can bring to the table,
    then get real and go out and shoot instead.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by leelove View Post
    Willow did you clean the sensor before returning the back to see if it was simply dust ?
    I just came back from studio.
    So I havent done anything about it yet.
    Will look at the sensor tomorrow.

    Its 2.10 AM here in Norway now, so I will get some sleep first

    Docmoore:
    Its in a dark area, but I also sees it in lighter areas.
    And it is developed in C1

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow View Post
    Took my first pictures with my IQ140 today.
    When I zoom in, I discovered a lot of grey spots.
    Looks like dust??
    Anyone knows what it is? Dead pixels?
    Have you checked out the noise reduction tab and tried the single pixel slider?

    It could be possibly an exposure artifact or High Iso Noise.

    Here is a link to the Phase One Help Page on the topic.

    Lance
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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Have you checked out the noise reduction tab and tried the single pixel slider?

    It could be possibly an exposure artifact or High Iso Noise.

    Here is a link to the Phase One Help Page on the topic.

    Lance
    I now tried the single pixel slider.
    I cranked it up to 100, and the spots vanished.
    Is it any disadvantage, having the single pixel slider on max?

    At 50 ISO, it should not be a High Iso Noise problem

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Did you adjust colour/saturation/exposure in the raw file? I have seen noise pop-up in an otherwise noise-free image. You almost have to go back and check the dark areas again.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    I may regret this and feel like a dope, but what I see is the magnification of the section in the frame where the background light is visible through the hair. It does not look like noise at all but rather, a slightly oof bleed-through of the light that when magnified, looks like a strange artifact.

    Apologies if I'm way off or not seeing what you're seeing.

    Best,
    Tim

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRSmith View Post
    I may regret this and feel like a dope, but what I see is the magnification of the section in the frame where the background light is visible through the hair. It does not look like noise at all but rather, a slightly oof bleed-through of the light that when magnified, looks like a strange artifact.

    Apologies if I'm way off or not seeing what you're seeing.

    Best,
    Tim
    You need to click on the thumbnails for a larger view. He is not referring to the 3-4 large gaps in the hair, but rather to several pixel size gray specks. If you click on the image, you should see them.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Sounds like I got under your skin...not meant to be a snide comment at all....

    ISO 50 should not have much noise...

    And Tim...I ignored the light though the hair...assumed we were discussing the small pinpoint spots of grey.

    And Willow ... I started with a P20 to a H3D II 39 now a Leica S2-P.

    I have a huge number of noisy grainy shots that work for me...I will continue to shoot. I will if you posit a question render an answer...may not be the one that agrees with everyone else.

    You are correct...not a high ISO issue..and I have not played with the current generation of Phase super backs...Capture One is the best for your purposes....As I seem to have missed the point completely I will bow out at this point.

    Most abject apologies seem to be your due...may I proffer them now. Mea culpa maxima.

    Hope you resolve this to your satisfaction....

    Nice pic by the way.

    Bob

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Willow,

    I just went back and looked at one of the C1Pro tutorials that Walter Borchenko did for LuLa.

    Did you use the colour editor at all in your processing? He works with an ISO100 Phase file, adjusting colour saturation & lightness. Then he looks at another part of the image and there is quite a bit of noise that has crept in. He says this is due to mixed lighting and sensors operating at different sensitivities for different colours (don't quote me on this, well above my head).

    The fix he applies is with the noise sliders. He adjusts both colour and luminance in 10 notch intervals until all the noise disappears, then he dials back the colour slider until the noise starts to reappear. He makes it a point that both sliders must be moved and in increments.

    Hope this works for you...

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    You need to click on the thumbnails for a larger view. He is not referring to the 3-4 large gaps in the hair, but rather to several pixel size gray specks. If you click on the image, you should see them.
    Oops, yes I see them now. Thanks.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Try luminance at 20 color at 35 single pixel at 30.

    And yes inspect your sensor. Not unusual to have a dirty sensor coming from the factory . Seen it in every camera I ever bought and that is many. Lots of times it is actually loose grease from new parts that gets sprayed around. So you may have to do a wet sensor clean. This is not mixed lighting either he is using all strobes here. End of the day my bet it's grease.
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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Try luminance at 20 color at 35 single pixel at 30.

    And yes inspect your sensor. Not unusual to have a dirty sensor coming from the factory . Seen it in every camera I ever bought and that is many. Lots of times it is actually loose grease from new parts that gets sprayed around. So you may have to do a wet sensor clean. This is not mixed lighting either he is using all strobes here. End of the day my bet it's grease.
    I'm inclined to agree with Guy. If the spots I am seeing are the gray spots that are being referred to....they are a somewhat irregular in size, randomly patterned and not dark black, like most dust spots. Many times, dust spots are black and spaced out considerably more than I am seeing here. Your gray spots instead remind me of the sprayed grease spots one often sees and been reported on many recent Nikon pro bodies, such as the Nikon D3 (due to mirror slap). If they are grease spots, its sometimes trickly wet cleaning them without creating smudges. Keep us posted when you have some idas what it might be.

    Dave (D&A)

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    I'd recommend uploading the image to Phase One support. So far I've found them very helpful.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    I'd recommend uploading the image to Phase One support. So far I've found them very helpful.
    I agree . I would recommend sending a raw file your dealer/phase one support. That way they can investigate weather it is pixel related or something else.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    I think there are too many spots for these to be dead pixels. Could be dust but looks too small for that, in my view. I experienced something similar (albeit far fewer spots but very similar in appearance) with my Sinar eMotion back when I was using an unsupported raw converter (Brumbaer). Was told by Sinar that these were artifacts caused by incorrect interpretation of the sensor data by the software. They disappeared completely when I started using the new CaptureShop 6 for raw conversion. I assume that you are using C1 for conversion, so this should not really be the cause, but I thought I'd still mention it since the spots look very similar to what I experienced.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Is the back set to "no Latency" ? This means there is no Wakeup signal, instead the Back powers permanently to be ready to shoot. This warms the chip and may cause the - I would say "Noise".
    Try to go to normal latency- this uses a wakeup signal. You will have a slight delay after pressing the shutter release, but I think then this is gone.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow View Post
    Well, I just took it from the dealer, straight to the studio.
    So I will (should) not pay whatever it is .-)
    I"ve never had a new MF back that didn't need cleaning right out of the box ...

    good news is it's extremely easy to clean MF backs, just don't use solution A in the cleaning kit they gave you ... just use B.

    The detail shot however I"m not sure what you are referring to, but does appear to need a little more noise reduction ...
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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Willow,

    I (we) have been checking back to see if this has been resolved to your satisfaction....did you find an answer that works?

    New equipment has a whole different set of issues than that which we have used prior...teething issues that need to be resolved. Normally at this level it all works well...once we get the workflow and process sorted.

    It is of great interest to all of us here to know how you have handled this. The more points we fill in the more we know for ourselves and others.

    Regards,

    Bob

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Willow, I doubt it is dust - it does look a bit like a processing artefact to me. What settings did you use to process the file? Perhaps posting a raw file would help us to see what's going on.

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Definitely NOT dust. Knowing more about the settings used (e.g. was zero latency on), getting a raw file, knowing what VERSION of Capture One and what digital back firmware was used, knowing what adjustments have been made to the raw file (e.g. massive amounts of shadow recovery?), and knowing the situation (ambient temperature, shooting pace, etc) in which the shoot took place would all be useful to figuring out what's going on.

    Those are hot pixles and depending on the answers to the above questions they are either completely out of the ordinary or entirely expected (e.g. incorrect latency setting in a warm room with fast shooting and processed in a old version of C1 with lots of shadow recovery I'd expect to look even worse than this). We need more info!

    I suspect you found what was up with your dealer so haven't been back on the thread but an update would be appreciated by all!

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    Re: Got My IQ140 today, but what is these gray spots?

    Hello guys.

    I have been very busy doing other stuff, so I havent be able to look into
    this problem until now.

    Thanks for all your help and interest.
    I have looked at the sensor and found nothing.
    Didnt think I would either because the spots where to small to be dust
    or anything like that.

    Then I started to look at the pictures I took before and after the shot
    I posted.
    Some of them where pretty much similar to the one I posted, posing and lightning wise.
    NONE of them had these spots.
    I am talking about unmanipulated RAW files.

    I had the back on NORMAL latency, low ISO, flash and in a studio
    with temperature in the low 70s.

    It must be something in the IQ140 processing of the RAW file is my guess.

    Sorry for crying wolf too soon guys .

    I borrowed an IQ180 until I received my IQ140, and it was not
    with an easy heart I returned it.

    But I must say the IQ140 more than met my expectations!!!

    Its different from the IQ180, but not in a bad way.
    Straight out of the box, I think the files from IQ140 are less contrasty.

    I havent been able to work enough with either two backs to come to
    a conclusion.

    And from now on it is only IQ140 anyway .

    I came from Nikon D3X and I told myself that the difference between
    MFDB and D3X is so little that is not worth the extra money and hassle to
    go for MFDB. And that was after I tested and owned H3D31 and H4D40.
    And before the Hasselblad guys starts to knock me down , I also meant
    that after working with a PhaseOne P30+.

    Looking at, and working with these IQ180 and IO140 files, I think the
    difference is huge!

    I am very happy with my purchase and equally happy with the help and
    support I get on this forum.

    Thanks again guys.

    Willow

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