Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 67

Thread: Future Medium Format Camera

  1. #1
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Future Medium Format Camera

    OK - what are your dreams of a High resolution (MF?) camera in lets say 2-3 Years from now ?
    Does it need to have an electronic viewfinder, Live View and deriving from that full video recording ?
    Should it be integrated (like an Leica S2) or modular (like a Blad) or even a tech cam ?
    Should there be wlan, remote control, internet access, GPS, more of these technical features or
    would you center on water and dust protection, enhanced battery life, better usability overall ?

    What would be a price range that is realistically possible for those features ?
    And could a RED with more still resolution than the Scarlett X fulfill these needs ?

    Please don´t hold it back, may it sound phantastic or crazy, I think ideas need brainstorming and input, speak it out.
    If the industry reads this, they may also have some more motivation to realize it. Speaking about it does make things happen,
    think about the Startrek communicator and Motorola who brought this to life with the first mobile phones.

    And don´t we all want to have a future for this market segment so we can use these highend cameras
    in the future ? What should be done to ensure this market will thrive ?

    Interested to hear your opinions

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Whether the back can be changed or not, an integrated system is going to the best solution for the future. The camera, lens, and the back should be able to communicate. For tech camera, there needs to be distance encoders to indicate movement and lenses need to carry focal length, aperture, shutter, distance, and model information.

    I hope manufacturers will play more with aspect ratio. I would like to see some 1:1, 2:1, and 3:1 formats. Perhaps some swing-lens scanning pano cameras would be fun.

    I hope they don't keep pushing the pixel war--not unless they are going to increase sensor size rather than reduce pixel pitch. I would rather a really large 40MP (6x7?) than a 300MP the same size.

    However, I will let the camera companies design the gear--they know more about it (and they will ignore threads like this). They also have other constraints like cost which is hard for photographers to understand.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    More than anything, higher ISO performance. Sometimes you might want to shoot moving subjects at f11 and the shutter speeds become simply too slow at ISO 50/100/200.

    A faster frame rate would be welcome too, as would multi-point AF. This is hardly ground-breaking stuff, but we still don't have it.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Shashin
    maybe they are listening ? I am quite sure the industry is at a turning point now, the customer is king, you will see it. If otherwise they cannot sell the engineer products they need to develop customer products. It´s always best to listen to the customer. But those have to say what they want !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Czech Republic and Austria
    Posts
    305
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    For me, a Mamiya 6 digital (or Bronica RF 645 digital). Well, not exactly but a camera that is compact, the lens retracts into the body, there is no mirror to slap - I want to be able to handhold it down to 1/30s. EVF, live view. Fast autofocus with face/nearest eye recognition. Higher ISO. Higher frame rate.

  6. #6
    Senior Member malmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Stefan

    Thanks for starting a thread which is probably of interest to many photographers.

    Currently have a range of Canon cameras, a Phase One 645Df and a Cambo WDS with a 35mmXL lens panel.

    What do I dream of?

    Phase one camera which has an auto focus system as good as my Canon 1D Mk4.
    An ETTL on camera flash for location work for portraits and weddings.
    A better range of leaf shutter zoom lenses - primes are great but sometimes one needs flexibility more than ultimate sharpness.
    Basically give me a ID with exchangable digital back.

    Price point.

    I would pay $15,000 to $20,000 US dollars for the pleasure of owning such a camera body.

    Thanks for the opportunity to put my point of view out there.

    Cheers


    Mal

  7. #7
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Thanks Mal

    this is exactly what is needed ! We need to talk to the industry and make a point. I think they already know what is the most urgent stuff, but it will definitely help being as precise as possible. (which you did !)

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  8. #8
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    For me it would be a S2-like camera with
    + multi spot AF
    + AF speed more on level like 35mm DSLRs
    + 2 stops better ISO (usable 2500 ISO)
    + half the price

  9. #9
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Here a link with some food for further thoughts - by Leica:

    http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/leic...ess-important/

    Regards
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 12th November 2011 at 23:34.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  10. #10
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Shashin
    maybe they are listening ? I am quite sure the industry is at a turning point now, the customer is king, you will see it. If otherwise they cannot sell the engineer products they need to develop customer products. It´s always best to listen to the customer. But those have to say what they want !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    I am sure the designers at the companies are not sitting around and twiddling their thumbs waiting for someone to get them ideas...

    How about a motorized tech camera? You set near and far points with the focusing mechanism, train the shifts or rise/fall, press a button and the camera will make a focus stack and automatically stitch the pano and give a 3-D file that can be used for extended focus or pseudo 3-D rendering. Not exactly new technology, but not found on technical cameras. You could also get the camera to make a tilt for single shots by specifying near and far points on a live view. If you get really fine motor (very possible right now), you could use multi-shot capture with any back for either real color or increased resolution.

  11. #11
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    For me it would be a S2-like camera with
    + multi spot AF
    + AF speed more on level like 35mm DSLRs
    + 2 stops better ISO (usable 2500 ISO)
    + half the price
    You mean a Pentax 645D, except that the ISO tops out at 1600...


  12. #12
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  13. #13
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    You mean a Pentax 645D, except that the ISO tops out at 1600...

    Yes, A Pentax 645 with a smaller body, less buttons, waterproof and fast lenses (which are great even wide open),fast image review and improved high ISO

    Frienkly I was torn between the Pentax and the S2 when I had to decide.

  14. #14
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Frienkly I was torn between the Pentax and the S2 when I had to decide.
    My bank manager made that choice easy for me, although I thought the "but look how much money I will save on film" argument was pretty good.

    But I think Leica and Pentax took the MFD DSLR in the right direction. Leica for a completely new design/system around a sensor and Pentax for bring the format up to the technology we have in the smaller formats. I really like the simplicity of the Leica controls. Phase also did some great things in the IQ series, especially for the tech camera.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I am sure the designers at the companies are not sitting around and twiddling their thumbs waiting for someone to get them ideas...

    How about a motorized tech camera? You set near and far points with the focusing mechanism, train the shifts or rise/fall, press a button and the camera will make a focus stack and automatically stitch the pano and give a 3-D file that can be used for extended focus or pseudo 3-D rendering. Not exactly new technology, but not found on technical cameras. You could also get the camera to make a tilt for single shots by specifying near and far points on a live view. If you get really fine motor (very possible right now), you could use multi-shot capture with any back for either real color or increased resolution.
    This has already been invented - <edit (Thanks Stefan)> CAPcam... a Sinar P3 replacement with linear actuators that gave you tripod head, full movements, shift-and-stitch etc.
    A 3D laser range finder could set movements... programmable stacking for shots where tilt would not cover everything.

    ...trouble is that it would be a very specialized camera and not many people would by it, so, even tho' is has been invented, it sits on the shelf waiting for someone to manufacture and market it.
    Last edited by dick; 13th November 2011 at 23:33.

  16. #16
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Prescott, Arizona
    Posts
    4,492
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    367

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    An updated version (for digital) of a hassy 500c with mamiya 645 mount for a digital back and lens through back integration.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Munich
    Posts
    876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Great normal stuff would be:

    -60-100MP
    -Much higher DR
    -better ISO great 400 and 800 would be nice
    -clean exposures for 5 minutes
    -No need for LCC
    -Real LV
    -More communication between cameras and backs. (tech cameras)

    Stuff I would love but probably will never see

    - 200-300Mp in 2:1 or even better 3:1 aspect ration. I really would love to have a real digital panoramic camera.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Dick

    the Sinar-e (1988) was like this, but even Sinar did probably not find more than a few customers worldwide - no wonder if you take a look at the cabling :-)

    http://abruce-images.blogspot.com/2010/11/bellows.html

    there is a much better solution now by the original constructor of the Sinar P2 - Charlie Gfeller - he has showed a camera named CapCam on the last photokina which is a fully motorized sphere!!! see here

    http://gfae.ch

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Dick

    there is a much better solution now by the original constructor of the Sinar P2 - Charlie Gfeller - he has showed a camera named CapCam on the last photokina which is a fully motorized sphere!!! see here

    http://gfae.ch

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Thanks, I spelled it wrong, but that is the camera I was thinking of. - with software this would solve many problems, including full remote control of all movements for operation on my 10m tripod!

    ...do you know if it is (going into/) in production?

    I think there was a version where each standard was linked directly to the tripod, rather than having the front standard linked off the rear standard?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    The camera is on sale as much as I know - the control is done with an iPad which stores all the settings and controls the movements. Write them an email at:

    [email protected]

    and send them greetings from me.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  21. #21
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Too early, at a time when nobody was even dreaming to shoot professionally with digital.

    Nevertheless, a few hundreds have been sold worldwide.

    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Dick

    the Sinar-e (1988) was like this, but even Sinar did probably not find more than a few customers worldwide - no wonder if you take a look at the cabling :-)
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  22. #22
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spain & Sweden
    Posts
    1,196
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    I'd love to see a 40x54 sensor (50-60MP) with true live view. Why not a Cmos? or a completely new sensor tech? But excellent live view for precision composition and 100% accurate focus right on the sensor. That would be amazing for us tech shooters.

    And a second wish....imagine if it was possible to change the back to a achromatic without the Bayer filter array with a flip of a switch? That would be so sweet!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  23. #23
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Dan

    Maybe there are here some people on the forum who remember Dicomed.
    Dicomed made an option for the BW - Bigshot still the largest CCD ever commercially sold with 60x60mm size - see here:

    http://www.epi-centre.com/reports/9604cs.html
    http://dougplate.com/dicomed/dicomed.html

    They offered an LCD RGB Filter in 1996 that processed 3 images in a fast row, actually it was planned to do it so fast that the user would not even mention it. This was quite ingenious but never worked (we had the first "prototype" filters for on site testing). I could imagine LCD technology has advanced a lot since 1996, so why not look into that direction ? The UV+IR Cut Bluegreen Filter could be dropped somewhere into the optical system where it does the least damage (close to the lense´s main points ?)
    This would actually triple physical resolution, make the chips cheaper and easier to make larger.

    back to the Future !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  24. #24
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    A 6x8 sensor back for the Fuji gx680 would be the way to go.
    That camera is simply amazing with film. A full frame digital back on it would be amazing. Add live view focus confirmation at it would be quite fantastic.

    MP count of 25 would be fine.

  25. #25
    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Spain & Sweden
    Posts
    1,196
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Aaah, me too, I love my GX 680 III! I would not mind using it again

    Stefan, great links! interesting...as you say...back to the future
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    The best tech I have seen for 'street' photography is the panning technology built into some of the little cameras like the Nex. I might buy one and see if I can get a digital version of the XPan happening for snaps. the inbuilt stitching is fantastic - for the type f photography that turns me on anyway.

    The Xpan in panoramic mode ( I like to think of it as a mini Widelux) is still my favourite all time camera system. In order to use it optimally you need an expensive Scanner and the hassle of film. If you add up these cost it is over 20K minimum - if you have an Xpan system.

    If Hasselblad put ANY type of sensor into an XPan to give me a digi Xpan _ I would be all over it. I am not as fussed over CCD versus CMOS - I would prefer to have a choice of either in large size - starting XPan then please 6x6 ...and matching high def LCD viewers with live view.

    [email protected] -

  27. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    I want 25 ISO.

    If you use eShutters, and your fastest shutter speed is 1/125, and your lens works best at f8, and you want to use bright sunlight as fill on white?

  28. #28
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    i would be quite happy if I could work same way as the olde 4x5, except digital output. it could be as simple (!) as live view on an attached screen (larger than 2" x 3"), maybe I-pad quality and size

  29. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Munich/NYC
    Posts
    29
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    1. Faster frame rate (3 per second would be cool already)
    2. Faster AF with multiple AF spots (to avoid unsharpness when panning)
    3. ETTL on camera flash (to have no need of a big studio flash)
    4. A bigger sensor 6 x 6 or 6 x 7 (80 MP is enough now, the sensor size is it!)
    5. Faster transfer time to computer, yes via WiFi please!
    6. A modern battery concept


    I don't need:

    1. Higher ISO
    2. More dynamic range
    3. Longer exposures
    4. More Megapixels



    I really don't need:

    1. Video stuff
    2. Life view stuff


    Thank you
    -Kai
    Last edited by Kai Birkigt; 17th November 2011 at 12:04. Reason: Weird colors, Haha, now even more weird... : )

  30. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Broadcast quality video on a digiback for use shifting on a tech camera would be useful.

  31. #31
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Dick

    I also think this is a very useful idea. May we like it or not, but in 5-10 years from now there will not be a single working" photographer" left. I predict that ALL of us will be "MediaPro´s" instead, taking either stills, time lapses and videos on choice plus using our skills in postshoot software as a full integral part of our daily business .

    actually - 90 % of colleagues I know are already there, so........

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  32. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Yes, Stefan - but how do you utilize your assets?

    To be efficient and effective you need to use your post-production assets and your camera kit all the time.

    ...but most photographers (who do not use MF kit) spend five or ten times as much on their car as they do on their camera kit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Dick

    I also think this is a very useful idea. May we like it or not, but in 5-10 years from now there will not be a single working" photographer" left. I predict that ALL of us will be "MediaPro´s" instead, taking either stills, time lapses and videos on choice plus using our skills in postshoot software as a full integral part of our daily business .

    actually - 90 % of colleagues I know are already there, so........

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan

  33. #33
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    I'll quit before I do video but would not mind better live view. After that I'm pretty happy with the IQ series. As always firmware tweaks would be helpfully with any system. I spent my money now time to use it and not wish for more gadgets on these things. At least for now.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  34. #34
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Amen, Guy!

  35. #35
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Honestly when it comes to sensors CCD are at the end of the tech chain as far as development sure they maybe to tweak more out of it but not much the problem is we keep asking for more than CMOS is the only answer and no way in hell am I buying a CMOS back. So I'm not so sure wanting video and such is a really good thing without some real technology advancement at a very high level which not sure any of us have seen yet. IMHO now is the time to buy your backs as later on we may not have CCD sensors as a real choice. I'm a little nervous about all the Red talk and companies wanting to down that path when a lot of us refuse or will not go down that path which is all going to be CMOS. Frankly my 160 maybe my last back I buy. Obviously I have a thing for CCD sensors since I never shot a CMOS sensor that turned my jets on. But that's me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  36. #36
    Member 2jbourret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ketchum, Idaho
    Posts
    144
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    i would be quite happy if I could work same way as the olde 4x5, except digital output. it could be as simple (!) as live view on an attached screen (larger than 2" x 3"), maybe I-pad quality and size
    +1
    I'd like to be able to tether my iPad to the current generation backs for live view, have a greater range of usable ISO (lower and higher), and be able to use tech cam movements without the need for LCC's. Tech cam lens and movement communication with the back wouldn't hurt, either.

  37. #37
    jcoffin
    Guest

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Why do I get this strange feeling that the winning answer will include something about Zeiss Superrotator tilt/shift lenses? :-)

  38. #38
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    I keep my mouth shut about our stuff in this thread. I really want to hear your open opinions, no restrictions and only what really moves you guys, because I know it´s moving me and I have sometimes the weirdest ideas of how this is all going to evolve. I am also one of those "old guns" who have beaten a lot of battles and seen a lot of mileage. But I don´t really know what this job will be in 10, maybe 20 years from now. I suspect it to be in some directions as written before, but then there is this iPad thing. What will be left of magazines in 10 years after the tablets have wiped the print industry away ? Who will need high resolution prints if there are 100 inch 8 or 16k displays which cost only 500 $ hanging on every living room wall ?
    Did you ever think of this ?
    Microsoft has today released surface 2.0 see here:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbCOR...layer_embedded

    there is plenty more stuff coming from this direction- take a look:
    http://vimeo.com/31558207

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2PMbvVGS-o&feature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_fIA...eature=related


    this is NOT science fiction, these are running projects at Microsofts development departments. Now fill in your place in these business modells and try to take a deep breath.


    Do you understand what I mean ?


    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  39. #39
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    The camera is on sale as much as I know - the control is done with an iPad which stores all the settings and controls the movements. Write them an email at:

    [email protected]

    and send them greetings from me.

    Regards
    Stefan
    If you speak German or use Google translate... there is some promising info here:

    http://www.fotointern.ch/archiv/2010...he-fachkamera/

    One and a half time the cost of a P2, with click-on-any-three-points auto tech cam focusing!?

  40. #40
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Dick

    as always - the devil lives in the details. Such a camera is technically the future, production is also not a problem once you are through getting supplies and quality stabilized.
    But there need to be dealers who sell this. As you can easily see this camera can do things which are WAY BEYOND any other camera (including our HCam) can do. Charlie Gfeller is one of the most inspiring people I know and the concept is clearly what would be the future of large format.
    But now there is no more (in reality) Sinar, the other makers are somewhat in a state of shock trying to survive all this digital wave of revolution.
    The market is difficult, there are customers who buy this, but mostly bypassing the dealers (who are mostly not covered with a profound experience of View camera science terms anyway and would need to first stock a sample, learn how to use it and then convince potential customers in a time consuming expert way -for most dealers this is asked too much - exceptions exist !) because they are from the scientific or niche special market.
    I know this all too well as the HCam is in the same range of crazy new revolutionary device market.
    It is NOT EASY ! mainstream is sold about pricing and availability. whereas this can be a real PITA, it is a known procedure for the dealers.
    To learn something revolutionary new - is another question without (mostly) answers.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  41. #41
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Marseille, FRANCE
    Posts
    972
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    more DR and more DR and more DR...

  42. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    IF we had ( real) live view on an IPAD type device THIS could make up for the tiny sensor sizes versus large print size capability of the current (MF digi chips and cameras ) - it is very frustrating ( to me) to have LF film resolution tonality capability via the digi chips - but a very very limited (in real world) ability to make use of multiple combined movements EASILY

    People that shoot dead on or just are happy with rise or fall are well served..me I want to be able to control the plane of focus and depth of field for still life work and portraiture - ie make photographs which are more than just subject - I am interested in the creative side of making something different using movements - and I want to be able to experiment quickly in real time.

    I don't care (much) about higher ISO or better DR or more megapixels - I just want the digi chip to be able to provide all the benefits it does now- but also the creative flexibility that large format or even super large format film based cameras did in terms of control of pane of focus - hence the need for a LIVE VIEW capability - I'd be happy with the quality that Sony provides today in its toy cameras like the NEX *** far as live view capability goes.

    too much to ask for?

  43. #43
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Vivek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    13,601
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    21

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Not at all much to ask for. Particularly, when just a digital back costs this.

    But, with live-view, the manufacturers and sellers can not be touting the need for very high tolerances and precision as the reason for the price while selling antique technology zone focus cams.

  44. #44
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Peter

    I think the focus layer/indicator in the new Nex is one of the top features.
    This should be of huge advantage when using this on a viewcamera device .
    I am certainly looking into getting a Cambo X2 to put a Nex 7 on it for testing. This may be a real killer combo - not for wideange probably , but as a studio combo for anyday catalogue usage.

    that said- it should be totally possible to go the creative path with it too !

    greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  45. #45
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Edwin is turned on, and he is the obvious choice for UK importer... I would like to work with him.

    To use or sell this you do not have to be like me... a mechanical and electronic engineer and real-time computer programmer with experience with view cameras.

    Cars, and everything else is getting more complicated... and soon this will be that camera of choice for product photography.

    It is very much easier to operate than a traditional view camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    The camera is on sale as much as I know - the control is done with an iPad which stores all the settings and controls the movements. Write them an email at:

    [email protected]

    and send them greetings from me.

    Regards
    Stefan
    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Dick

    as always - the devil lives in the details. Such a camera is technically the future, production is also not a problem once you are through getting supplies and quality stabilized.
    But there need to be dealers who sell this. As you can easily see this camera can do things which are WAY BEYOND any other camera (including our HCam) can do. Charlie Gfeller is one of the most inspiring people I know and the concept is clearly what would be the future of large format.
    But now there is no more (in reality) Sinar, the other makers are somewhat in a state of shock trying to survive all this digital wave of revolution.
    The market is difficult, there are customers who buy this, but mostly bypassing the dealers (who are mostly not covered with a profound experience of View camera science terms anyway and would need to first stock a sample, learn how to use it and then convince potential customers in a time consuming expert way -for most dealers this is asked too much - exceptions exist !) because they are from the scientific or niche special market.
    I know this all too well as the HCam is in the same range of crazy new revolutionary device market.
    It is NOT EASY ! mainstream is sold about pricing and availability. whereas this can be a real PITA, it is a known procedure for the dealers.
    To learn something revolutionary new - is another question without (mostly) answers.

    Regards
    Stefan

  46. #46
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    Dick

    you are right, actually once the movements are preprogrammed into the iPad it is very easy to use. But I can remember the shocked looks of the people who look at this the first time. Been on the Photokina on the Schneider booth for some hours and also in Italy on the PK Trade show in Venice where I was also showcasing our HCam , talking with Charlie and Rolf for 2 days.

    the break is in the heads of the people. They need to jump out of their own shadow, which actually is not so simple. Charlies brain is working like the one of a 20 year old, totally fresh and always asking how things can be done better and he has no restrictions for this. In his age this is amazing !

    I don´t know many people like him, very inspiring.....

    greetings from Munich
    Stefan




    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    Edwin is turned on, and he is the obvious choice for UK importer... I would like to work with him.

    To use or sell this you do not have to be like me... a mechanical and electronic engineer and real-time computer programmer with experience with view cameras.

    Cars, and everything else is getting more complicated... and soon this will be that camera of choice for product photography.

    It is very much easier to operate than a traditional view camera.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  47. #47
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Palm Beach Gardens, Florida, USA
    Posts
    358
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    I have hoped for faster and more accurate auto focus for quite some time. The rationale for the fact that the engineers currently designing medium format lenses have utterly failed to keep pace with those at Nikon and Canon in this area utterly escapes me. Some have offered as an excuse the fact that for a given focal length, medium format lenses are larger than their 35mm based counterparts and subsequently have heavier bits of glass to move, but experience with the Nikon 600 f/4 and 200 f2 belies that argument.

    As much as I would like to make the move to MFD, until I am satisfied that I can capture my subjects, which tend to move about quite unpredictably, reliably and consistently, I am afraid that I am stuck with my small format gear...but I do continue to look over here and dream.

  48. #48
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    691
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    60MP (per channel), 5x4 instant capture 16 bit sensor. Fits a graflok adapter. Live view with focus peak as Sony NEX does. 5 additional stops of dynamic range highlight buffering to create a shoulder, not a cut off. No lines when using high contrast/HDR

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    259
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    A range finder with a sensor roughly 50 mm x 70 mm with a 7 micron pixel size, approximately 45 MP, a small range of dedicated lenses, from 40 mm-300mm. Adjustible range finder but in addition live view for precise focus. I would expect for the entire rig it would be in the USD 40K range, I would expect a good weather seal and build quality, high ISO 6400+ and huge DR. I would like to add I have a rich interior life. Joe
    Last edited by jsf; 21st December 2011 at 20:54. Reason: syntax

  50. #50
    Landshark
    Guest

    Re: Future Medium Format Camera

    A MF that will last through an entire summer of shooting, just tired of the breakdowns

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •