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Thread: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

  1. #1
    Shelby Lewis
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    Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Hey All,

    I'm about to try out some different diopter strengths for my RZ IID WLF viewfinder magnifier, as focussing is not quite as easy as I'd anticipated. There is a -1.5 on it currently, but I don't use anything but +1 reading glasses (when I use glasses at all).

    Got me to thinking, though... anyone ever use a loupe (ala large format) on the WLF of an RZ? Marcus Klinko has a handheld magnifier with a little "cozy" sewn around it to act as a dark cloth of sorts.

    you can kind of see it here:

    There are youtube videos as well that show his set-up.

    I shoot on a tripod basically all the time with a fairly narrow region of focus and was wondering what a 4x loupe on the screen would be like.

    Any thoughts?
    Shelby

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    See if you can find one of these
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  3. #3
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Thanks Yair... I've seen those. How are they different than the pop-up magnifier on the WLF? Is it just that the light on the viewfinder is better controlled or is the magnification higher?

    Much appreciated!

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Hi Shelby. I found this info on an item that was for sale back in August. Needless to say, I have no connection with this seller.

    http://photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=1248730

    It does look interesting.......and they do seem hard to come by.....rare or "very rare", I'm not sure. :-)

    KEH has one for sale that is for the RZ, but would need to be modified for the RZII.

    http://www.keh.com/camera/Mamiya-RZ-...000005000?r=FE

    Here's a PDF description of it.

    Gary

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Although I have a WLF for my Contax 645, I prefer to use my Mamiya 3.5X loupe instead, as it's slightly brighter and has less distortion. I just remove the prism finder and hold it in place against the mounting clips on the body ... works great!

    Anyway, the reason I mention this is Mamiya also made a 3X loupe that covers the 6x7 format. You can see it at http://www.flickr.com/photos/3269805...n/photostream/ and I suspect it will work every bit as well as the 3.5X / 645 loupe does for me.

    Unfortunately, neither of these loupes are available new from Mamiya, but they do turn up on eBay fairly regularly, both NOS and used, and for much, much less than Mamiya used to get for them.

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    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    That Mamiya loupe is a beauty! Schneider makes something similar.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...r_for_6x7.html

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Is there no pop up loupe built into the RZ's WLF?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Member itsskin's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Here is what I use for precise focusing. Magnifier comes with diopter adjustment and gives high magnification of center area. The good thing you can flip it away very fast. Usually, I start without magnifier, compose, then focus with magnifier on the eyes, remove magnifier, correct composition and shoot. Even handheld gives me 95% dead-on focus rate with split prism mamiya focusing screen.
    Quick snaps of setup:


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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    I also own a Panasonic GH2 camera, it offers a magnified view with x5 times magnification for manual focusing.
    I often wish I had similar capabilites on MF cameras...

  10. #10
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Is there no pop up loupe built into the RZ's WLF?
    There is, and it works really well for me for close distance portraits... if there is a catchlight in the eyes, I can focus on it usually quite well... but I'm having real troubles at middle and far distances. I'm wondering if I have the wrong diopter strength magnifier installed.

  11. #11
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    I thought about going this direction. Maybe I will.

    I just LOVE shooting with the WLF, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by itsskin View Post
    Here is what I use for precise focusing. Magnifier comes with diopter adjustment and gives high magnification of center area. The good thing you can flip it away very fast. Usually, I start without magnifier, compose, then focus with magnifier on the eyes, remove magnifier, correct composition and shoot. Even handheld gives me 95% dead-on focus rate with split prism mamiya focusing screen.
    Quick snaps of setup:


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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    The Cambo shiftable hood might also work. It has a 3X Schneider magnifier in it
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    There is, and it works really well for me for close distance portraits... if there is a catchlight in the eyes, I can focus on it usually quite well... but I'm having real troubles at middle and far distances. I'm wondering if I have the wrong diopter strength magnifier installed.
    Cool, well not really, I'm glad I'm not the only one that has this issue. If the distance is between 5-10' I can nail it, beyond that I'm close but off.

  14. #14
    Member itsskin's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by bensonga View Post
    Hi Shelby. I found this info on an item that was for sale back in August. Needless to say, I have no connection with this seller.

    http://photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=1248730

    It does look interesting.......and they do seem hard to come by.....rare or "very rare", I'm not sure. :-)

    KEH has one for sale that is for the RZ, but would need to be modified for the RZII.

    http://www.keh.com/camera/Mamiya-RZ-...000005000?r=FE

    Here's a PDF description of it.

    Gary
    How to compose for full view with this? Need to be removed to see, what you are really shooting?

  15. #15
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by mvirtue View Post
    Cool, well not really, I'm glad I'm not the only one that has this issue. If the distance is between 5-10' I can nail it, beyond that I'm close but off.
    Same here... and always to the front. I never back-focus at middle and longer distances, always to the front. I almost begin to believe that my focus screen is out of adjustment, and then I'll shoot a bunch of closer head shots with even shallower DoF, and I'll nail those.

    The past series that I posted on the "Favs" thread I ended up tethering just to make sure I had good focus. Was a real help.

  16. #16
    Member itsskin's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    BTW, Marcus's setup is fixed on tripod. And I remember you also do this. BUT. You try this trick handheld
    No way

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    Super Duper
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    First thing to check is the diopter strength in the WLF Shelby.

    I use the same flip finder on the metered prism for critical focus, but it's not a very spontaneous way of working even with the RZ.

    -Marc

  18. #18
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Will do... thanks Marc.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    First thing to check is the diopter strength in the WLF Shelby.

    I use the same flip finder on the metered prism for critical focus, but it's not a very spontaneous way of working even with the RZ.

    -Marc

  19. #19
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Another question... with the old RZ chimney finder still fit and work as a finder on the newer model, but without AE function? I don't want the AE function, and would be fine with an unmodified older one if, indeed, it still fits and will work as a "dumb" finder.

    It's the magnification I need.

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    I dont like AE chimney on RZIID. Its exactly same in the end as WLF for me, except for added bulk and sacrifice of portability. And i think rubber piece is torn off from mine after a bit. But i have one if anyone desperately want it

    Shelby, which focusing screen do you use?

    (also yes, you need to correct diopter.. -1.5 i think is default one, for 20/20 vision. You can simply try to replace it with any magifying glass piece from book store, btw)
    Last edited by SergeiR; 7th December 2011 at 20:28.

  21. #21
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Good info! I have the stock focusing screen with the stock -1.5 diopter... but I've JUST started wearing reading glasses as my ability to see things up close seems to be leaving me

    Brightscreen or interscreen was a thought... but cash is a bit tight coming into the holidays... plus I just bought some lights and a battery pack

    I thought about ordering the -2 and -3 diopters and seeing how the extra magnification helped out. I do like the the flip up magnifier in the WLF... it is really convenient to compose with the finder and then just flip up the magnifier for fine focusing.

    I think I'll try your bookstore suggestion to see if it helps. Great idea!

    Thanks again,
    Shelby

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    I dont AE chimney on RZIID. Its exactly same in the end as WLF for me, except for added bulk and sacrifice of portability. And i think rubber piece is torn off from mine after a bit. But i have one if anyone desperately want it

    Shelby, which focusing screen do you use?

    (also yes, you need to correct diopter.. -1.5 i think is default one, for 20/20 vision. You can simply try to replace it with any magifying glass piece from book store, btw)

  22. #22
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    So I just found this: http://www.mamiya-usa.com/rz67-pro-i...on-lenses.html

    Funny thing... I fight convergence insufficiency (binocular)... which is an inability for my eyes to close focus as a pair (they don't cross very easily), but I think my vision is ok in each eye individually, so I'm totally unsure which diopter to get. It seems I meed more strength, but I guess trial and error will be the only thing that will tell.

    Lots of good info in this thread. I appreciate all the contributions!

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Ok, Shelby, do you want RF (split focus) screen for RZ?

    I still have original one , and i do suck at selling my old equipment, so if you want it (and if i can find it, but i think i saw it in drawer) - i will send it to you once i get back to Dallas in one month (still in Russia right now). Consider it New Year present

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    I dont like AE chimney on RZIID. Its exactly same in the end as WLF for me, except for added bulk and sacrifice of portability. And i think rubber piece is torn off from mine after a bit. But i have one if anyone desperately want it

    Shelby, which focusing screen do you use?

    (also yes, you need to correct diopter.. -1.5 i think is default one, for 20/20 vision. You can simply try to replace it with any magifying glass piece from book store, btw)
    Sergei, so you are saying the chimney offers no magnification advantage over the WLF?

    Is there any way to increase magnification on the WLF? It would be nice to get a different lens for it which would cover the 645 size area of digital backs. What will a for example -3 diopter do (assuming perfect eyesight)?

    Another question... with the old RZ chimney finder still fit and work as a finder on the newer model, but without AE function? I don't want the AE function, and would be fine with an unmodified older one if, indeed, it still fits and will work as a "dumb" finder.

    It's the magnification I need.
    I can answer that question. It will fit but the electronics (i.e. metering) won't work.

    I'm also curious about the prism finder. Ilya, how difficult is it to focus without the magnifier compared with the WLF? How easy is it to handhold? Does metering work using a digital back via a sync cable?

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Marko, if i remember correctly docs said something about 3 times on chimney and 2.5 times on wlf. I tried to spot difference at some point and failed It could be me, of course and someone might see it. Diopter isnt just about magnification it also places focus differently , so with good eyesight you will need to move eye in/out to get focus. Magnification of them all will remain same, thats why i think different lense , even from book store might help to magnify more. Simply putting flip-up piece of frensel lens inside of wlf at 2/3 height might give a wee bit of boost to magnification, but problem is, as with prism finder - you loose light once you star messing with extra elements between eye and lens.. So image becomes darker and thus again harder to focus

    I am travelling right now, so i cant do decent R&D ( have only afd2 body with me) but once i am back in dallas - i will try to revisit magnification on wlf.

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    Member itsskin's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkoRepse View Post

    I'm also curious about the prism finder. Ilya, how difficult is it to focus without the magnifier compared with the WLF? How easy is it to handhold? Does metering work using a digital back via a sync cable?
    Without magnifier it's not that easy. But magnifier is superb. Focusing is more precise then x10 loupe directly on focusing screen. I shoot hand-hold a lot and it's not a problem for me with the winder.
    I currently own dummy prism without automation, so, can not help with your last question.

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Fuji made a very nice loupe type finder.
    They threw it together on my suggestion years ago.

    here it is:



    It has diopter adjustment and can be moved around.

    It can also be flipped open so you can see the full composition.

    It does touch the focusing screen.

    It's bigger than the RZ, so I guess it could be fitted over the RZ

  28. #28
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    Fuji made a very nice loupe type finder.
    They threw it together on my suggestion years ago.

    It has diopter adjustment and can be moved around.

    It can also be flipped open so you can see the full composition.

    It does touch the focusing screen.

    It's bigger than the RZ, so I guess it could be fitted over the RZ
    Very interesting! Similar in conception to my original idea of just using a loupe on the RZ ground glass, but in a more integrated fashion (at least for fuji).

    One available cheap here as we speak.

    The Fuji prism looks really nice as well and I like the adjustable diopter. Mamiya should have made one similar.

    Thanks!
    Shelby

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Great info! Thank you. It seems like a custom WLF would be the best option. I found a lens at home with a focal length of around 2cm and it offered massive magnification of the central area. Something in-between this and the original would be best.

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post

    The Fuji prism looks really nice as well and I like the adjustable diopter. Mamiya should have made one similar.

    Thanks!
    Shelby
    I sent Mamiya my suggestions when I used to shoot with the RZ, but they were not interested. Fuji on the other hand were very receptive to input.

    Using a loup directly on the ground glass is a bad idea as it could alter the focus calibration

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    I have a couple of these:



    Very nice to use on the RZ as it is designed for 56x56mm so much closer to digital back formats on the RZ.

    The optics in this is really good. Zero distortion or color fringing.

    Wide adjustment range.

    I can spare one if someone is interested.

  32. #32
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    I have a couple of these:



    Very nice to use on the RZ as it is designed for 56x56mm so much closer to digital back formats on the RZ.

    The optics in this is really good. Zero distortion or color fringing.

    Wide adjustment range.

    I can spare one if someone is interested.
    Very interested Fred... send me a private message with a price and if I have the funds I might just take one off your hands.

    Thanks for the input!

  33. #33
    Member itsskin's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    After this thread I got mamiya 645 x3.5 loupe. And it's very-very nice on RZ ground glass. Thx for the hint!

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by itsskin View Post
    After this thread I got mamiya 645 x3.5 loupe. And it's very-very nice on RZ ground glass. Thx for the hint!
    As another FYI, the Mamiya MF loupes are identical to those sold by Cabin, which usually sell for a bit less...

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    I have the stock focusing screen with the stock -1.5 diopter...
    Shelby
    I purchased a new RZ67 II microprism focusing screen "C" a few weeks ago and finally got around to installing it today. For me, it's a BIG improvement over the stock focusing screen, so you might give it a try, if you haven't found a solution yet. I got it from B&W (special order item) for $127. Well worth the money.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...en_Type_C.html

    Gary

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    You might want to look at this:

    http://www.hartblei.kiev.ua/product_...?products_id=6



    It has a 4x magnification and wide angle of view ... will cover enough area for digital sensors

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Shelby - did you ever try out the different diopters to see if they made any difference?

    On the topic of a loupe on the glass, I was looking at both of these. Tall enough and narrow enough to fit through the WLF (if on a tripod), and good strong magnification for critical focus.

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    So I ended up picking up one of the inexpensive Chinese loupes (listed above) to help out with focusing on my RZ67. I chose the Hening 6x loupe which was only $60 shipped. I chose it primarily because it was long and thin enough to fit into the open waist level finder of the RZ, and it had a rubber end piece so I didn't need to worry about setting it directly on on the focusing screen.

    The quality is about what you'd expect for the price, but it seems well built and it should hold up fine with use. It comes with a nice neck strap that keeps it handy when you do need to focus. Optically, it does the job just fine. I used to have a Silvestri 6x loupe when I shot 4x5 and it's not as nice as that one was. Brightness/clarity are more than acceptable though. The field of view is fairly narrow, so you only focus on a selected area at one time.

    The loupe fits nicely into the WLF and allows you to focus on any specific area in the 36x48 digital crop image that you need to. Focus accuracy feels much more precise. It gives you about twice the magnification of the flip up diopter in the WLF. It's pretty much to the point that your view of the focus plane and the level of precision offered by the fine focus knob are about the same. It's a big improvement over just the flip up diopter.

    Obviously it's not going to be ideal for dynamic shooting situations, but for static setups it's a very handy accessory. I'd recommend it, especially for the price.

    Here's some pics of what it looks like.






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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    When using a tripod or camera stand indoors, I routinely use a 4x loupe on the ground glass and find it to be a nice solution to aid focusing. I completely remove the finder and just place the loupe on the ground glass. For composition (but less magnification) it is also possible to use a Hoodman or similar DSLR screen loupe. Again you just plop it down on the ground glass. The Hoodman is just the right size and format for viewing the capture area for a 36x48 sensor (such as P45, Aptus7, etc). For a focusing screen I have a Brightscreen #5 Large Split Image Microprism with custom 36x48 crop lines for both horizontal and vertical.

    JM

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    I've come across this thread as I am also exploring options of improving upon the standard WLF with -1.5 dioptre lens.

    I got hold of a used LCDVF magnifier but it is worse than the original WLF with even less magnification.

    The camera is used with a 6x4.5 mask so I don't need to see a whole frame. A next, more expensive step, would be to get a loupe. Mamiya makes a x3.5 loupe for 6x6 and 6x4.5 negatives. Has anyone used it on the RZ? There's also a question of installation so, ideally, you don't need to put it directly on the focusing screen.

    Has anyone experimented with more options since the discussion in this thread? I am looking for increased magnification but whole 6x4.5 visible. The hartblei one looks like it might cover a 'full frame' MF digital back area without any cropping. Is anyone able to confirm this?

    Best,
    Pat
    Last edited by robdeszan; 20th October 2016 at 05:16.

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Quote Originally Posted by robdeszan View Post
    Has anyone experimented with more options since the discussion in this thread? I am looking for increased magnification but whole 6x4.5 visible. The hartblei one looks like it might cover a 'full frame' MF digital back area without any cropping. Is anyone able to confirm this?

    Best,
    Pat
    Funny... I've just come back here after a ton of time off and the first thing I see is a thread I started a million years ago.

    (BTW, a glitch in the forum software deleted my account so I don't think any of my photos or galleries survived)

    Although I no longer shoot the RZ, I eventually ended up shooting it with a Cabin PL-367 Loupe sitting right on the viewfinder. I miss the RZ and have considered moving back to it/

    Best of luck!

    Cheers.
    Shelby

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    Thanks for the suggestion Shelby. Can you remember whether the Cabin loupe allowed you to see the whole frame area? Was the image more magnified in comparison to the original WLF?

    LCDVF is x2, I can't find what the magnification factor is on the original Mamiya WLF?


    Pat

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    Re: Anyone ever use a loupe on an RZ WLF?

    I wanted to share a solution to achieve increased magnification without placing loupes on the focusing screen.

    I got hold of a Promaster 3.5x magnifying loupe, intended for viewing 6x6 / 6x4.5 film (great built quality, apochromatic lens with adjustable eyepiece) and attached it to the base of the original WLF (after disassembling the top cover with the magnifying lens), attached it with some 3M no-residue gaffer tape and it is absolutely brilliant!

    Thanks to the range of adjustments on the Promaster loupe it can focus on the screen even without its screw-in viewing hood with some range still left before it reaches its maximum extension. Magnification is increased but you can still see the whole frame so composition is not compromised. Two photos with the loupe attached and one (downloaded off the internet) for reference only.

    Pat

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by robdeszan; 3rd December 2016 at 04:41.

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