Rodenstock 35/4 Vs Schneider 35/5.6 For Alpa

[Mort54]

Hi all.

From time to time I entertain the notion of replacing my Mamiya 645 II system with an Alpa 12TC and a few Schneider or Rodenstock lenses. So, in that vain, I'm wondering whether I really need a center filter with the Schneider 35 when used with a P45+ and NO shifts or tilts. Without the center filter, how bad is the vignetting? Is it so bad that it degrades image quality in the corners after post processing it away? If you've used this lens in the way I'm describing, I'd love to get your take on the center filter.

Also, as long as I'm posting about this, I'll also ask for your comparisons between the Schneider 35 and the Rodenstock 35. If I get this kit, I'll be using it to shoot landscapes from a tripod, usually between f/5.6 and f/11, so the f/4 max aperture of the Rodenstock probably isn't required. On the other hand, it for sure doesn't need a center filter. I've also heard that the Rodenstock probably is a bit sharper.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Rodenstock recommended not stopping down their 35 beyond f/11. Does image quality really drop off at f/11 and up?

Finally, for those of you that have shot a MFDB on both an Alpa and a Mamiya system, am I really going to see a difference in sharpness and contrast between the Mamiya lenses vs the Schneider or Rodenstock lenses?

Thanks,
Mort.

 

[Don Libby]

Mort

This is beginning to be of interest to me as well as I am thinking of getting a Cambo WDS and switching my back from a P30+ to a P45.

don

 

[jeffreytotaro]

Hi Mort:

Just a quick response. The center filter on the Schneider 35XL is not required for optimal image quality. It does help even out the images but I've lately been keeping it in the case. Something nice about slightly vignetted images I guess. The 24xl really needs it.

The Schneider has a larger image circle than the Rodenstock so if movements are necessary I'd stick with the Schneider but you said Alpa TC so I guess you're not interested in movements. I can't imagine anything sharper than the Schneiders but I've not seen Rodenstock images.

Will you see a difference from SLR lenses? Absolutely!! Keep in mind the Digitars are designer for digital. Super sharp, symmetrical designs with little to no distortion or CA. No mirror to compromise the lens designs.

Schneider suggests optimal sharpness between f8 and f11. Beyond that diffraction will degrade the images.

I've used the Digitars on Cambo and currently Alpa MAX and SWA cameras.

Hope that helps.

Jeffrey

 

[lance_schad]

I honestly cannot tell the difference in images produced with either lens.
The Horsemans that we have been selling have the Rodenstock APO-Sironar_digital l for their 35mm/45mm/55mm models and the 24mm Schneider. The Cambos and ALPAS I have sold almost exclusively have Schneider Digitars across the line. Occasionally there is a Rodenstock 28 HR. (so from my standpoint in the marketplace Schneider has more marketshare and happy customers)

Yes you will most definitely want to use the center filter on the 24mm. We really have not found the need to use on the 35mm.

Technically speaking there are two models of Rodenstock Digital lenses the Sironar Digital and Sironar Digital HR . The Sironar Digital lenses allow for more movements than the HR series and support larger sensor areas. I have attached the tech specs for both series of lenses.

Also I am getting in a ALPA SWA kit and variety of lenses that has been slightly used next week. I will post the specs in the Vendor area , it may be of interest to you.

Have a good weekend and see some of you at the lighting workshop next week.


Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
Direct: 305-534-5701 x1 | Cell: 305-394-3196
Capture Integration
[email protected]

 

[rainer-v]

the difference are three:

1. the rodenstock is very sharp even NOT stopped down, as long its the HR version. in this aspect its superior than the schneider which wants 1 , better 2 stops.
2. the HR lens has slightly less vignetting, shiftet much less.
3. the HR is sharp till the edge of its image circle, this allows 12mm shifting on a 36x48mm chip without black corners, meanwhile the schneider has bigger image circle but its sharpness degrades fast if you shift more than .

you can use it at f22 too, the rodenstock claim not to go beyond f11 speaks about the optimum results. all lenses degrade after with actual sensors,- i use the 35HR often at f22 if i need it and there is no "extra" problem with sharpness degradation.

 

[carbonmetrictree]

I personally like what I have seen with the Rodenstock HR series lenses. From the tests that I have studied, I cannot really see a significant difference comparing the two. The decision should be based on how you will intend to use the lens. I would go with the HR lenses because they're very sharp wide open, probably your best bet if you will be hand holding the TC.

Either way, you'll end up with a spectacular lens and camera. You can't really go wrong with any combination that Alpa provides.

 

[jingq]

the rodenstock HR is amazing.
I've had a Rodenstock 45mm digital
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/177791-USA/Rodenstock_150128_45mm_f_4_5_Digital_APO.html
and compared to the 35mm HR, it looks like mush.

Yes the movements are limited but the resolution is incredible. If the Schneiders are only on par or slightly better than the rodenstock digital (non-hr) then I say go for the HR. just do a rental and test it out, you'll be easily convinced I'm sure.

The HR is sharp wide open at f/4 and depth of field was a concern for me but after using it I'm getting used to shooting at f/4-f/8

 

[thsinar]

I can only recommend the Rodenstock HR: they have a huge advantage over their corresponding Schneider, they DO NOT need to stopped down and are sharp at full-open f-stop, sharp over the whole image circle.

Also, their respective shift ways given in the brochure are VERY conservative: you can easily go 3-4 mm more.

Best regards,
Thierry

 

[fotografz]

Hi Mort:

The Schneider has a larger image circle than the Rodenstock so if movements are necessary I'd stick with the Schneider but you said Alpa TC so I guess you're not interested in movements. I can't imagine anything sharper than the Schneiders but I've not seen Rodenstock images.

Jeffrey

I had the Rodenstock, and I think the above is incorrect as far as I know. Shift specifications are almost identical: Schneider: 20/17 for a 36X48 sensor ... verses Rodenstock: 21/17 with a 37X49 sensor. Both are spectaular performers.

 

[Natasa Stojsic]

I tested both, personally I have not seen much difference and to be honest I decided on Schneider for practical and esthetic reasons... it's substantially smaller (if you use TC) and more compact with superb quality!!!

Rodenstock or Schneider... As far as I am concerned, there are no mistakes just personal preference:thumbs:

 

[Mort54]

....I decided on Schneider for practical and esthetic reasons... it's substantially smaller (if you use TC) and more compact with superb quality!!!

The small size of the Schneider is the main attraction for me as well. I always travel with my Nikon DSLR kit and my MF kit. However, stuffing a Mamiya 645 AFD II, P45+ and a few MF lenses into the bag, along with the DSLR kit, is a pain at best. I'm hoping the 12TC will ease that pain a bit, and the Schnieder helps in that regard. Still, the Rodenstocks have a strong pull on me, for reasons that probably aren't totally logical . Also, while I don't typically need f/4 for shooting landscapes, the f/4 would be appealing if I ever need to do ground glass focussing. But at least the center filter is no longer an issue.

As I recall, you also shoot your MFDB on a Mamiya kit. How would you rate your Schnieder's against your Mamiya lenses?

Mort.

 

[Natasa Stojsic]

The small size of the Schneider is the main attraction for me as well. I always travel with my Nikon DSLR kit and my MF kit. However, stuffing a Mamiya 645 AFD II, P45+ and a few MF lenses into the bag, along with the DSLR kit, is a pain at best. I'm hoping the 12TC will ease that pain a bit, and the Schnieder helps in that regard. Still, the Rodenstocks have a strong pull on me, for reasons that probably aren't totally logical . Also, while I don't typically need f/4 for shooting landscapes, the f/4 would be appealing if I ever need to do ground glass focussing. But at least the center filter is no longer an issue.

As I recall, you also shoot your MFDB on a Mamiya kit. How would you rate your Schnieder's against your Mamiya lenses?

Mort.

Mort,

OK let me be specific... I originally ordered 24XL / 35mmXL / 47mmXL decentered and later (just one week later) I decided to add 28HR because of the bigger sensors due any time soon:thumbup:

Now when I tested them few months ago, all I can say is Schneider and Rodenstock SCREAM QUALITY:thumbs: So, against 28mm Mamiya both lenses were obviously and far superior!!!

I had one problem with focusing.... so in that respect I had 95% perfect results with Mamiya and only 5% results with ALPA 12 TC and Schneider/Rodenstock Lenses... Now, of course that's due to my lack of expirience with view Cameras and guesstimation

So if convenience is what you need, 28mm Mamiya will do its JOB better than any 24mm/28mm Schneider/Rodenstock lens period:thumbup:

If the quality is you're after and you measure 1% of results with Mamiya against 1% of results with Schneider/Rodenstock... I'm afraid Mamia doesn't stand a chance and that's as simple as it gets:thumbup:

I seriously think there are no wrong choices here...

it's QUALITY vs. CONVENIENCE? (both important when you need it:thumbs

I decided on Mamiya 28mm at first and look at me now.... I am about to receive ALPA 12 TC/ALPA 12 MAX with 24XL, 28HR not to mention 35XL and 47XL decentered!!!

So as you can imagine... I can't wait:thumbup:

 

[carbonmetrictree]

LOL, Natasa, you should be Capture Integration's official equipment tester with all the gear you've got.

How do you like the 28HR versus the 24XL? I really wanted to get the 24XL as my first lens, but the image circle is very constricting.

Mort,

OK let me be specific... I originally ordered 24XL / 35mmXL / 47mmXL decentered and later (just one week later) I decided to add 28HR because of the bigger sensors due any time soon:thumbup:

Now when I tested them few months ago, all I can say is Schneider and Rodenstock SCREAM QUALITY:thumbs: So, against 28mm Mamiya both lenses were obviously and far superior!!!

I had one problem with focusing.... so in that respect I had 95% perfect results with Mamiya and only 5% results with ALPA 12 TC and Schneider/Rodenstock Lenses... Now, of course that's due to my lack of expirience with view Cameras and guesstimation

So if convenience is what you need, 28mm Mamiya will do its JOB better than any 24mm/28mm Schneider/Rodenstock lens period:thumbup:

If the quality is you're after and you measure 1% of results with Mamiya against 1% of results with Schneider/Rodenstock... I'm afraid Mamia doesn't stand a chance and that's as simple as it gets:thumbup:

I seriously think there are no wrong choices here...

it's QUALITY vs. CONVENIENCE? (both important when you need it:thumbs

I decided on Mamiya 28mm at first and look at me now.... I am about to receive ALPA 12 TC/ALPA 12 MAX with 24XL, 28HR not to mention 35XL and 47XL decentered!!!

So as you can imagine... I can't wait:thumbup:

 

[Natasa Stojsic]

LOL, Natasa, you should be Capture Integration's official equipment tester with all the gear you've got.

Unfortunately.... not enough time left:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:

How do you like the 28HR versus the 24XL? I really wanted to get the 24XL as my first lens, but the image circle is very constricting.

Image circle is not that much constricting on P30+ and P45+, practically I can't see any difference so that I should worry about except 24XL is charmingly wider and very sweet lens if you happen to need that extra bit/space shooting Interiors like I often do!!!

However, if you are to move to P65+ also take in consideration that it's full frame I think 28HR will hold the edge, but we don't know that yet... I can only assume that it will!!! Although, when shooting interiors... 24XL makes enough of a difference to me to be able to afford and own both:thumbup:

Anyway, considering the work (night) I've seen on your web:clap: I think your decision to go for 28HR is simply logical & practical regardless of the size of sensor:thumbup:

:salute:Great Eye & Natural Talent:salute:

 

[carbonmetrictree]

Thanks for your comments Natasa

I had an incredibly tough time deciding upon the two lenses. How are your experiences with the 24XL in terms of shifts? I'm sure your actual experience with these lenses will be a lot different than any data sheet can give me. From what I have read so far, it seems that you will only be able to shift approximately 3mm.

Heck, I should start getting together some tools for a bank robbery. At least the ski mask won't be too expensive :ROTFL:

 

[Natasa Stojsic]

Thanks for your comments Natasa

I had an incredibly tough time deciding upon the two lenses. How are your experiences with the 24XL in terms of shifts? I'm sure your actual experience with these lenses will be a lot different than any data sheet can give me. From what I have read so far, it seems that you will only be able to shift approximately 3mm.
:

Obviously data sheet is there only as a general guide... usually hands on expirience is always different for better or for worse

28HR will give me more room obviously, but I don't worry about that much with 24XL.... I will confirm the details when I get the equipment after Photokina... (saves some tax$ too) or even better.... we can see each other in L.A. I have a job in Calif. and will be visiting members of my family there... if time allows us, we can do a test on the spot and exchange opinions:thumbup:

Thanks for your comments Natasa
Heck, I should start getting together some tools for a bank robbery. At least the ski mask won't be too expensive :ROTFL:

The way these companies suddenly price their products, I wouldn't be surprise if you and your Bank come few dollars short :ROTFL:

:thumbs:Although, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you for sure... hehehehe!!! :ROTFL: :thumbs:

 

[carbonmetrictree]

That would be great if we could test out the lenses to see exactly the differences on the 12Max. I was at Samy's in Los Angeles and the dealer there didn't want to put the 12Max together because it was his only body So I didn't get to test it out on the max. I'll probably purchase the 24XL for my personal work, and the 28HR for jobs. My friends know me as the wide guy', it's no joke that a 28-35mm lens is the peak of my longer focal lengths :ROTFL:

Obviously data sheet is there only as a general guide... usually hands on expirience is always different for better or for worse

28HR will give me more room obviously, but I don't worry about that much with 24XL.... I will confirm the details when I get the equipment after Photokina... (saves some tax$ too) or even better.... we can see each other in L.A. I have a job in Calif. and will be visiting members of my family there... if time allows us, we can do a test on the spot and exchange opinions:thumbup:




The way these companies suddenly price their products, I wouldn't be surprise if you and your Bank come few dollars short :ROTFL:

:thumbs:Although, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you for sure... hehehehe!!! :ROTFL: :thumbs:

 

[thsinar]

... then you will be pleased with the new coming Sinaron Digital 23 mm (Rodenstock) for the arTec ...



Thierry

My friends know me as the wide guy', it's no joke that a 28-35mm lens is the peak of my longer focal lengths :ROTFL:

 

[carbonmetrictree]

Thanks Thierry, looks like the new Rodenstock 23mm HR lens will be available with an Alpa mount too! It was a good thing I didn't buy the 24XL, this lens will be perfect for my work.

23HR

 

[thsinar]

Welcome.

Yes sure, it is available.

Best regards,
Thierry

Thanks Thierry, looks like the new Rodenstock 23mm HR lens will be available with an Alpa mount too!