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Which back for architecture/interiors?

AlexLF

Well-known member
I'm really thinking about it... :) About getting Linhof Techno + MFDB for architecture and interiors. But I have some questions:
1) Which back is better for tech cam? I really like Leaf Aptus 12 and 10. Could they be the best tools for the job? I've read about microlenses and color cast when tilt/shift is applied...
2) Is R-version of these backs really helpful on Linhof Techno? Is it even possible to use R-version on it?
3) What to do with this 'wife thing'? :)

Thanks in advance.
 

vieri

Well-known member
Hello Alex,

I am a Techno shooter for my Architecture/Landscape stuff, currently I am using a P65+ but will soon move to a Leaf Aptus II 12R 80 Mp sensor. Briefly answering your question, and all of course IMO:
1. I would stand clear of the Aptus 10 for Architecture, unless you really love the long frame ratio it has I'd rather have a 4:3 ratio back or 3:2 at the most; as far as color cast, I am using both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses and a 60 Mp back for the moment, and still you'll have to do your LCC shots for every frame and every lens (less so with lenses from 90mm and above) if you intend to get the best results out of your gear.
2. Yes it is possible, and I think it will be very useful; like with every digital back, the less you take it on and off the camera, the better (dust, risk of dropping it, etc). Using the R back you'll never have to remove it during a shoot, which really lessen the risks above.
3. No comment on this one :D Mine is actually very supportive and trusts my judgement regarding the financial administration of the household (! Which could be a big mistake on her part!!), but I am sure once she'll see the results and the work you'll rein in she'll think it was worth it ;)

Hope this helps, and welcome to the tech cam world!
 

AlexLF

Well-known member
Vieri, thank you very much! Hope to see your pics made with Aptus II 12R. And yes I tend to consider this back more.
My wife has been very supportive too... But I wonder now where is the limit :)

One more qtn - what is the composing, focusing and taking a picture workflow on the P65+ (and I think it'll stay the same with Aptus II because it doesn't have a live view). Probably I mean how is it ... slow, uncomfortable compared to IQ backs and 4x5 LF? My only tech cam background is 4x5 Techikardan so this is why I'm asking.
 

vieri

Well-known member
Alex,

the solution to your last question has actually been very simple for me - I got a sliding adaptor (more wife-sonvincing work to get that, of course...), and that made it very very simple: connect the adaptor to the camera, focus/compose through the glass, slide the adaptor with the back into place, take the picture. The sliding adaptor offers you the possibility for panoramic stitching as well without having to move your camera: it has 3 positions, left/centered/right and it makes is perfectly easy to shoot real wide panoramic shot or to just stitch vertical shots to get more resolution or whatever. The whole process is very simple once you get used to it - and with the R back, I plan on eliminating the step where I had to take off the back, turn it and put it on again, so that would make it even simpler. Here a couple images of the setup, from the "tech camera" thread:



 

AlexLF

Well-known member
Oh, I've seen that thread and these images! That's what keeps me motivated :)

I put the adapter in my list from the beginning (BTW, have you seen Techno Universal Rapid Slide Changer - SHORT ?). Not that all this is done deal ... ;)

About focusing with the adapter - I've read in this forum that MFDB requires very precise focusing and I see that Hasselblad pre-calibrate their bodies with backs for this reason. So how do you find focusing with the adapter - do you have much focusing errors?
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Alex

I think as Vieri already mentioned, using a standard tech Camera for Architecture and Interiors with back of 60+80 Mpix and Rodenstock or Schneider Wideangles shorter than 32mm will give you a lot of Headaches. There are Color casts/needs LCC, not much movements ,Light fall off/Centerfilters needed, slow F5,6 and exorbitant prices (23mm Rodie 7200 €) for these lenses as a "bonus".

On the other hand you can use all Backs up to 80 Mpix with Image angles of 126,3 or even 180 Degress (Canon 17mm+24mmV2 TSE- rectilinear or Canon 8-15mm Fisheye Zoom + Hemisphere Plugin) with NO color cast, nearly no light Fall Off and no Centerfilter with 2 Apertures brighter (f3,5 or f4) and Movements (TSE´s). This with lens prices of around 2000 €(24mm) 2200€(17mm)+1250 €(8-15mm).

How can you get this ? Look here : http://hcam.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm

and here is more info about it

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28197&highlight=hcam

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27729&highlight=hcam

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17541&highlight=hcam

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

Udo

Member
Oh, I've seen that thread and these images! That's what keeps me motivated :)

I put the adapter in my list from the beginning (BTW, have you seen Techno Universal Rapid Slide Changer - SHORT ?). Not that all this is done deal ... ;)

About focusing with the adapter - I've read in this forum that MFDB requires very precise focusing and I see that Hasselblad pre-calibrate their bodies with backs for this reason. So how do you find focusing with the adapter - do you have much focusing errors?
Hello Alex,

first of all I have to concur completely with Vieri's comments regarding workflow with the Techno. I am using one with a H4D-50 back which is not as comfortable as a back containing its own battery, either an additional battery or an ImageBank is needed out in the field.

Using Hasselblad cameras myself I do understand your thoughts concerning focus calibration and I had mixed feelings here as well. But after using the Techno now for 7 or 8 months I have to say, that focus errors almost never happened till now. Due to lack of a sliding adapter my workflow is slightly different than described by Vieri. After focusing on the ground glass it is then replaced by the back. Focus is being checked either with the Magnifier Viewing System 8x8 attached to the basic light hood (as seen in Vieri's setup) or just with a 6x loupe directly on the ground glass depending on the ambient light.

Regarding Hasselblad's focus calibration I am not sure how it is done, but there is definitely one more plane involved compared to a tech or view camera, i.e. mirror and focusing screen.

Good luck with your new setup.

Best regards,
Udo
 

vieri

Well-known member
Oh, I've seen that thread and these images! That's what keeps me motivated :)

I put the adapter in my list from the beginning (BTW, have you seen Techno Universal Rapid Slide Changer - SHORT ?). Not that all this is done deal ... ;)

About focusing with the adapter - I've read in this forum that MFDB requires very precise focusing and I see that Hasselblad pre-calibrate their bodies with backs for this reason. So how do you find focusing with the adapter - do you have much focusing errors?
As Udo mentioned, that is not a problem at all - if the sliding adapter is straight, not bent or anything, and the focussing screen on the sliding adapter is on the same plane with the digital back, then once you got perfect focus on the glass and slide the back in place you will have perfect focus on your image. Not a hassle at all :D
 

vieri

Well-known member
Stefan, while I find the Hartblei a very interesting product and I sincerely appreciate your efforts in getting it out there, in doing so I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth that I never said nor meant. Just to make myself clear, neither in my experience with the Techno nor in my experience with the Silvestri Bicam which I used before that I have ever said anything about the system giving someone headaches at all, on the other hand I repeatedly mentioned that it's all very simple and straightforward. The only thing I mentioned is that you need is to shoot a LCC frame to compensate for WA, nothing else, and I respectfully ask you not to misquote me in order to do your advertising. Besides, I think that shooting an LCC in exchange for the superior image quality you get from these lenses is definitely acceptable - it is to me at least, and I am sure I am not the only one in thinking as such seeing the popularity that Digital Tech cameras enjoy these days :D Thank you very much in advance, and all the best for the Hartblei which is a great product by itself and certainly doesn't need you misquoting me in order to sell more :D

Alex

I think as Vieri already mentioned, using a standard tech Camera for Architecture and Interiors with back of 60+80 Mpix and Rodenstock or Schneider Wideangles shorter than 32mm will give you a lot of Headaches. There are Color casts/needs LCC, not much movements ,Light fall off/Centerfilters needed, slow F5,6 and exorbitant prices (23mm Rodie 7200 €) for these lenses as a "bonus".

On the other hand you can use all Backs up to 80 Mpix with Image angles of 126,3 or even 180 Degress (Canon 17mm+24mmV2 TSE- rectilinear or Canon 8-15mm Fisheye Zoom + Hemisphere Plugin) with NO color cast, nearly no light Fall Off and no Centerfilter with 2 Apertures brighter (f3,5 or f4) and Movements (TSE´s). This with lens prices of around 2000 €(24mm) 2200€(17mm)+1250 €(8-15mm).

How can you get this ? Look here : http://hcam.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm

and here is more info about it

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28197&highlight=hcam

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27729&highlight=hcam

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17541&highlight=hcam

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

cly

Member
Besides, I think that shooting an LCC in exchange for the superior image quality you get from these lenses is definitely acceptable
If I may add this: it's not just about lens cast: dust removal via LCC file is a very handy feature.

Chris
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Sorry Vieri

I was referring to that sentence:

"I am using both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses and a 60 Mp back for the moment, and still you'll have to do your LCC shots for every frame and every lens (less so with lenses from 90mm and above) if you intend to get the best results out of your gear."

should have made this clearer. The other stuff was not written by you. I just did not make a break in the sentence - my mistake.
As we have also seen with the tests that Dough Peterson has done -

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28040

there is a definite problem with the short Schneiders and Lenscast, which no matter how much LCC you use is serious.

I also added just what was the resumee of the 3 GetDPI threads that I have linked in the text.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

vieri

Well-known member
If I may add this: it's not just about lens cast: dust removal via LCC file is a very handy feature.

Chris
Indeed Chris, i forgot to mention that - thanks for the reminder!

Sorry Vieri

I was referring to that sentence:

"I am using both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses and a 60 Mp back for the moment, and still you'll have to do your LCC shots for every frame and every lens (less so with lenses from 90mm and above) if you intend to get the best results out of your gear."

should have made this clearer. The other stuff was not written by you. I just did not make a break in the sentence - my mistake.
As we have also seen with the tests that Dough Peterson has done -

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28040

there is a definite problem with the short Schneiders and Lenscast, which no matter how much LCC you use is serious.

I also added just what was the resumee of the 3 GetDPI threads that I have linked in the text.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
No problem Stefan, I am glad it's all sorted out :) Just one more thing: there are so many image taking systems out there, and each has its strong points and its weak points. It's up to everyone of us to decide what is important for us and what is not, and to help people doing so GetDPI is IMHO one of the best places out there for many reasons; besides the huge amount of photographic knowledge & experience available on this forum, one of these reasons is the general lack on "fanboy-sm" and down-talking/bad-mouthing this or that system. I love the contribution that dealers and makers offer on the forum, and - though I'd rather not see it happen - I do try and understand it when sometimes people get carried away by their (rightful) belief in the product they produce/sell - so don't worry, no harm done :D

I find that my iPhone has no lens cast at all. But I prefer the quality of the lenses for my ALPA.
:ROTFL: So very true Stephan! :D
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hmmm. I know I will now probably get beaten for this, but with an iPhone 4s and maybe 15-20 shots used on a gigapanlike device, stitched for one large 100 Mpix wide image angle file (100 degrees or more), I think this will be better quality than any 80 Mpix back single shot with any Lens no matter if a Canon or a Rodenstock or a Schneider on any camera. I think I really should try it, the idea makes me curious.

And no - I´m not laughing, I think this is a bloody damn serious threat for this whole industry including my own business.

regards
Stefan
 

AlexLF

Well-known member
OK, lots of useful info here (as always on this forum).

I had doubts regarding which Aptus II back would be good for architecture/interiors (if any) and if Techno is really comfortable in real life. Now it's clear that Techno + Aptus II 12R will be a perfect choice (and Rodenstock lenses). I appreciate it.

Stefan, thanks for the info about Hartblei cam. But that's slightly different from what I really want and how I shoot. But I agree that price really matter (in general) ;)

Well, hopefully I'll have more news in January. And hopefully mostly good news.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The Aptus 12 is a excellent choice and you will really like it. Honestly they are all good and it really comes down to what your comfortable with both functionally , image and costs and lets not forget software. The other thing and you need to research this carefully is the tech cam you choose also. All of them have some limitations and you need to know that going in right from the get go. I don't know the Techno well enough to comment but Vieri can get you in the right direction on it. I shoot a Cambo and very pleased with it so far. I really have no dog in any of this as long as people do the homework and research and are happy with what they get, its less e-mails to me that they screwed up. Believe me i get them too often, rather folks ask a million questions on this forum get the answers they need without bias and make smart buy decisions more than anything.

My bias opinion is that is what makes GetDPI great. As co-owner that was bias. LOL
 

carstenw

Active member
Hmmm. I know I will now probably get beaten for this, but with an iPhone 4s and maybe 15-20 shots used on a gigapanlike device, stitched for one large 100 Mpix wide image angle file (100 degrees or more), I think this will be better quality than any 80 Mpix back single shot with any Lens no matter if a Canon or a Rodenstock or a Schneider on any camera. I think I really should try it, the idea makes me curious.

And no - I´m not laughing, I think this is a bloody damn serious threat for this whole industry including my own business.

regards
Stefan
Resolution is one matter, but how would you get the dynamic range? You cannot even set the exposure manually, to use HDR techniques.

Btw: https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecommerce/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?CID=1840&IID=9114
 

Stefan Steib

Active member
Hi Carsten

yes - you can ! You have to use one of the advanced camera apps - I use either ProCamera, Pro HDR or almost-DSLR.
You could even do some more exposures and run an HDR series (didn´t think about it....;-) before stitching.
There are 2x, 6x , 8x and 12x tele lenskits to narrow the image angle. so if someone would go really crazy he could do even more shots.

And the 4s BTW has a pretty good dynamic range even without HDR.

Greetings from Munich
Stefan
 

jlm

Workshop Member
that's a joke, right? about the I-phone, that has a lens about 6mm across, producing image quality comparable to Rodenstock?
 
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