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Thread: Which back for architecture/interiors?

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    Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I'm really thinking about it... About getting Linhof Techno + MFDB for architecture and interiors. But I have some questions:
    1) Which back is better for tech cam? I really like Leaf Aptus 12 and 10. Could they be the best tools for the job? I've read about microlenses and color cast when tilt/shift is applied...
    2) Is R-version of these backs really helpful on Linhof Techno? Is it even possible to use R-version on it?
    3) What to do with this 'wife thing'?

    Thanks in advance.

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hello Alex,

    I am a Techno shooter for my Architecture/Landscape stuff, currently I am using a P65+ but will soon move to a Leaf Aptus II 12R 80 Mp sensor. Briefly answering your question, and all of course IMO:
    1. I would stand clear of the Aptus 10 for Architecture, unless you really love the long frame ratio it has I'd rather have a 4:3 ratio back or 3:2 at the most; as far as color cast, I am using both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses and a 60 Mp back for the moment, and still you'll have to do your LCC shots for every frame and every lens (less so with lenses from 90mm and above) if you intend to get the best results out of your gear.
    2. Yes it is possible, and I think it will be very useful; like with every digital back, the less you take it on and off the camera, the better (dust, risk of dropping it, etc). Using the R back you'll never have to remove it during a shoot, which really lessen the risks above.
    3. No comment on this one Mine is actually very supportive and trusts my judgement regarding the financial administration of the household (! Which could be a big mistake on her part!!), but I am sure once she'll see the results and the work you'll rein in she'll think it was worth it

    Hope this helps, and welcome to the tech cam world!
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Vieri, thank you very much! Hope to see your pics made with Aptus II 12R. And yes I tend to consider this back more.
    My wife has been very supportive too... But I wonder now where is the limit

    One more qtn - what is the composing, focusing and taking a picture workflow on the P65+ (and I think it'll stay the same with Aptus II because it doesn't have a live view). Probably I mean how is it ... slow, uncomfortable compared to IQ backs and 4x5 LF? My only tech cam background is 4x5 Techikardan so this is why I'm asking.

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Alex,

    the solution to your last question has actually been very simple for me - I got a sliding adaptor (more wife-sonvincing work to get that, of course...), and that made it very very simple: connect the adaptor to the camera, focus/compose through the glass, slide the adaptor with the back into place, take the picture. The sliding adaptor offers you the possibility for panoramic stitching as well without having to move your camera: it has 3 positions, left/centered/right and it makes is perfectly easy to shoot real wide panoramic shot or to just stitch vertical shots to get more resolution or whatever. The whole process is very simple once you get used to it - and with the R back, I plan on eliminating the step where I had to take off the back, turn it and put it on again, so that would make it even simpler. Here a couple images of the setup, from the "tech camera" thread:



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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Oh, I've seen that thread and these images! That's what keeps me motivated

    I put the adapter in my list from the beginning (BTW, have you seen Techno Universal Rapid Slide Changer - SHORT ?). Not that all this is done deal ...

    About focusing with the adapter - I've read in this forum that MFDB requires very precise focusing and I see that Hasselblad pre-calibrate their bodies with backs for this reason. So how do you find focusing with the adapter - do you have much focusing errors?

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Alex

    I think as Vieri already mentioned, using a standard tech Camera for Architecture and Interiors with back of 60+80 Mpix and Rodenstock or Schneider Wideangles shorter than 32mm will give you a lot of Headaches. There are Color casts/needs LCC, not much movements ,Light fall off/Centerfilters needed, slow F5,6 and exorbitant prices (23mm Rodie 7200 €) for these lenses as a "bonus".

    On the other hand you can use all Backs up to 80 Mpix with Image angles of 126,3 or even 180 Degress (Canon 17mm+24mmV2 TSE- rectilinear or Canon 8-15mm Fisheye Zoom + Hemisphere Plugin) with NO color cast, nearly no light Fall Off and no Centerfilter with 2 Apertures brighter (f3,5 or f4) and Movements (TSE´s). This with lens prices of around 2000 €(24mm) 2200€(17mm)+1250 €(8-15mm).

    How can you get this ? Look here : http://hcam.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm

    and here is more info about it

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...highlight=hcam

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...highlight=hcam

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...highlight=hcam

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLF View Post
    Oh, I've seen that thread and these images! That's what keeps me motivated

    I put the adapter in my list from the beginning (BTW, have you seen Techno Universal Rapid Slide Changer - SHORT ?). Not that all this is done deal ...

    About focusing with the adapter - I've read in this forum that MFDB requires very precise focusing and I see that Hasselblad pre-calibrate their bodies with backs for this reason. So how do you find focusing with the adapter - do you have much focusing errors?
    Hello Alex,

    first of all I have to concur completely with Vieri's comments regarding workflow with the Techno. I am using one with a H4D-50 back which is not as comfortable as a back containing its own battery, either an additional battery or an ImageBank is needed out in the field.

    Using Hasselblad cameras myself I do understand your thoughts concerning focus calibration and I had mixed feelings here as well. But after using the Techno now for 7 or 8 months I have to say, that focus errors almost never happened till now. Due to lack of a sliding adapter my workflow is slightly different than described by Vieri. After focusing on the ground glass it is then replaced by the back. Focus is being checked either with the Magnifier Viewing System 8x8 attached to the basic light hood (as seen in Vieri's setup) or just with a 6x loupe directly on the ground glass depending on the ambient light.

    Regarding Hasselblad's focus calibration I am not sure how it is done, but there is definitely one more plane involved compared to a tech or view camera, i.e. mirror and focusing screen.

    Good luck with your new setup.

    Best regards,
    Udo

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLF View Post
    Oh, I've seen that thread and these images! That's what keeps me motivated

    I put the adapter in my list from the beginning (BTW, have you seen Techno Universal Rapid Slide Changer - SHORT ?). Not that all this is done deal ...

    About focusing with the adapter - I've read in this forum that MFDB requires very precise focusing and I see that Hasselblad pre-calibrate their bodies with backs for this reason. So how do you find focusing with the adapter - do you have much focusing errors?
    As Udo mentioned, that is not a problem at all - if the sliding adapter is straight, not bent or anything, and the focussing screen on the sliding adapter is on the same plane with the digital back, then once you got perfect focus on the glass and slide the back in place you will have perfect focus on your image. Not a hassle at all
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Stefan, while I find the Hartblei a very interesting product and I sincerely appreciate your efforts in getting it out there, in doing so I would appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth that I never said nor meant. Just to make myself clear, neither in my experience with the Techno nor in my experience with the Silvestri Bicam which I used before that I have ever said anything about the system giving someone headaches at all, on the other hand I repeatedly mentioned that it's all very simple and straightforward. The only thing I mentioned is that you need is to shoot a LCC frame to compensate for WA, nothing else, and I respectfully ask you not to misquote me in order to do your advertising. Besides, I think that shooting an LCC in exchange for the superior image quality you get from these lenses is definitely acceptable - it is to me at least, and I am sure I am not the only one in thinking as such seeing the popularity that Digital Tech cameras enjoy these days Thank you very much in advance, and all the best for the Hartblei which is a great product by itself and certainly doesn't need you misquoting me in order to sell more

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Alex

    I think as Vieri already mentioned, using a standard tech Camera for Architecture and Interiors with back of 60+80 Mpix and Rodenstock or Schneider Wideangles shorter than 32mm will give you a lot of Headaches. There are Color casts/needs LCC, not much movements ,Light fall off/Centerfilters needed, slow F5,6 and exorbitant prices (23mm Rodie 7200 €) for these lenses as a "bonus".

    On the other hand you can use all Backs up to 80 Mpix with Image angles of 126,3 or even 180 Degress (Canon 17mm+24mmV2 TSE- rectilinear or Canon 8-15mm Fisheye Zoom + Hemisphere Plugin) with NO color cast, nearly no light Fall Off and no Centerfilter with 2 Apertures brighter (f3,5 or f4) and Movements (TSE´s). This with lens prices of around 2000 €(24mm) 2200€(17mm)+1250 €(8-15mm).

    How can you get this ? Look here : http://hcam.de/en/hartbleicam1.htm

    and here is more info about it

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...highlight=hcam

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...highlight=hcam

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showth...highlight=hcam

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by vieri View Post
    Besides, I think that shooting an LCC in exchange for the superior image quality you get from these lenses is definitely acceptable
    If I may add this: it's not just about lens cast: dust removal via LCC file is a very handy feature.

    Chris

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I'm pretty partial to the IQ 160 myself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Sorry Vieri

    I was referring to that sentence:

    "I am using both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses and a 60 Mp back for the moment, and still you'll have to do your LCC shots for every frame and every lens (less so with lenses from 90mm and above) if you intend to get the best results out of your gear."

    should have made this clearer. The other stuff was not written by you. I just did not make a break in the sentence - my mistake.
    As we have also seen with the tests that Dough Peterson has done -

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28040

    there is a definite problem with the short Schneiders and Lenscast, which no matter how much LCC you use is serious.

    I also added just what was the resumee of the 3 GetDPI threads that I have linked in the text.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I find that my iPhone has no lens cast at all. But I prefer the quality of the lenses for my ALPA.

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by cly View Post
    If I may add this: it's not just about lens cast: dust removal via LCC file is a very handy feature.

    Chris
    Indeed Chris, i forgot to mention that - thanks for the reminder!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Sorry Vieri

    I was referring to that sentence:

    "I am using both Schneider and Rodenstock lenses and a 60 Mp back for the moment, and still you'll have to do your LCC shots for every frame and every lens (less so with lenses from 90mm and above) if you intend to get the best results out of your gear."

    should have made this clearer. The other stuff was not written by you. I just did not make a break in the sentence - my mistake.
    As we have also seen with the tests that Dough Peterson has done -

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28040

    there is a definite problem with the short Schneiders and Lenscast, which no matter how much LCC you use is serious.

    I also added just what was the resumee of the 3 GetDPI threads that I have linked in the text.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    No problem Stefan, I am glad it's all sorted out Just one more thing: there are so many image taking systems out there, and each has its strong points and its weak points. It's up to everyone of us to decide what is important for us and what is not, and to help people doing so GetDPI is IMHO one of the best places out there for many reasons; besides the huge amount of photographic knowledge & experience available on this forum, one of these reasons is the general lack on "fanboy-sm" and down-talking/bad-mouthing this or that system. I love the contribution that dealers and makers offer on the forum, and - though I'd rather not see it happen - I do try and understand it when sometimes people get carried away by their (rightful) belief in the product they produce/sell - so don't worry, no harm done

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    I find that my iPhone has no lens cast at all. But I prefer the quality of the lenses for my ALPA.
    So very true Stephan!
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hmmm. I know I will now probably get beaten for this, but with an iPhone 4s and maybe 15-20 shots used on a gigapanlike device, stitched for one large 100 Mpix wide image angle file (100 degrees or more), I think this will be better quality than any 80 Mpix back single shot with any Lens no matter if a Canon or a Rodenstock or a Schneider on any camera. I think I really should try it, the idea makes me curious.

    And no - I´m not laughing, I think this is a bloody damn serious threat for this whole industry including my own business.

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    OK, lots of useful info here (as always on this forum).

    I had doubts regarding which Aptus II back would be good for architecture/interiors (if any) and if Techno is really comfortable in real life. Now it's clear that Techno + Aptus II 12R will be a perfect choice (and Rodenstock lenses). I appreciate it.

    Stefan, thanks for the info about Hartblei cam. But that's slightly different from what I really want and how I shoot. But I agree that price really matter (in general)

    Well, hopefully I'll have more news in January. And hopefully mostly good news.

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    The Aptus 12 is a excellent choice and you will really like it. Honestly they are all good and it really comes down to what your comfortable with both functionally , image and costs and lets not forget software. The other thing and you need to research this carefully is the tech cam you choose also. All of them have some limitations and you need to know that going in right from the get go. I don't know the Techno well enough to comment but Vieri can get you in the right direction on it. I shoot a Cambo and very pleased with it so far. I really have no dog in any of this as long as people do the homework and research and are happy with what they get, its less e-mails to me that they screwed up. Believe me i get them too often, rather folks ask a million questions on this forum get the answers they need without bias and make smart buy decisions more than anything.

    My bias opinion is that is what makes GetDPI great. As co-owner that was bias. LOL
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Hmmm. I know I will now probably get beaten for this, but with an iPhone 4s and maybe 15-20 shots used on a gigapanlike device, stitched for one large 100 Mpix wide image angle file (100 degrees or more), I think this will be better quality than any 80 Mpix back single shot with any Lens no matter if a Canon or a Rodenstock or a Schneider on any camera. I think I really should try it, the idea makes me curious.

    And no - I´m not laughing, I think this is a bloody damn serious threat for this whole industry including my own business.

    regards
    Stefan
    Resolution is one matter, but how would you get the dynamic range? You cannot even set the exposure manually, to use HDR techniques.

    Btw: https://www.schneideroptics.com/ecom...=1840&IID=9114
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Carsten

    yes - you can ! You have to use one of the advanced camera apps - I use either ProCamera, Pro HDR or almost-DSLR.
    You could even do some more exposures and run an HDR series (didn´t think about it....;-) before stitching.
    There are 2x, 6x , 8x and 12x tele lenskits to narrow the image angle. so if someone would go really crazy he could do even more shots.

    And the 4s BTW has a pretty good dynamic range even without HDR.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    that's a joke, right? about the I-phone, that has a lens about 6mm across, producing image quality comparable to Rodenstock?

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    No It´s not. The technology is already here. See here a sample what can be done with 35mm cameras and "some" postprocessing:

    http://www.xrez.com/case-studies/nif...n-in-fulldome/

    actually using an 8Mpix instead of a 22 Mpix device would just raise the number of needed shots.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    The iPhone lens doesn't need to be of Rodenstock quality. When you stitch, the lens qualities are reduced in importance.

    Anyway, Stitching up/down/left/right is very different than stitching many times to get the same resolution and dynamic range. I doubt many people would want to take that route. One of the perks of getting older and having a reasonable career (whether in photography or not) is the ability to buy nice equipment for specific uses, regardless of what lower-end equipment can do when pushed to extremes.

    Secondly, time is money and using an iPhone for things like this is much more time-consuming.

    I think that phones with cameras as good as the iPhone 4S and similar Android phones will probably take a good chunk out of the low-end compact market, or maybe they have already, but all the old reasons for using a higher end system over a compact are still there. No one is going to sell their DSLR for an iPhone, except a couple of extreme bloggers.
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  23. #23
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Carsten

    actually I am not thinking about iPhones.This is of course not (yet!) practical. I only say Nex 7. There is this sweep panoramic mode that produces 52 Mpix images in some seconds- IN CAMERA PROCESSING ! This can be used in Landscape AND Portrait mode and is a as easy as it can be. see here:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/SonyList.../0/HPV6ZIgzLBM

    making 3 of these panoramic rows and stitch them (with photoshop) will give you up to 260 degrees of image angle with a file size of 150 Mpix aka 450 Mbyte. Do this on 200mm (it´s a 400 on the Sony) and you will get something like 80 degrees with that resolution.

    I guess this counts as serious. And - will take not more than some minutes from taking the image to the finished file.

    This makes me very thoughtful and if I interpolate this into the future, I ask who will pay 40-50k € for a solution (e.g.IQ180+AlpaSTC+Rodie23mm) that actually has only half of that resolution and a fraction of that image angle , not to speak of versatility ? The Nex 7 body costs 1250 € put an 18-200 for 799€ and a good tripod and a very good motor pano into this package = about 5000 €.

    Plus- the Sony is capable of many other marvellous things - full HD Video ,14 images a second, low light mode (with full resolution...) etc.pp. see here some links:

    http://www.youtube.com/user/SonyListens#p/a
    see
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzFErFDOURk
    http://www.youtube.com/user/SonyList...33/JulyTvLVnBY

    And some videos from
    Yuri Afanasiev from Russia

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BOVt...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-4_o...eature=related

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfL3_dlo7Rs

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnFSk...eature=related

    http://www.photoru.ru/page.php?vrub=...d=145&lang=eng


    Maybe this little Camera is the best "back" today ?

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  24. #24
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    There was a thread on LuLa a few weeks ago about the Vegas panoramic image that was produced with the RED Epic

    I tried asking some questions (on LuLa and also on the RED forum) about the method used and never got any meaningful answer...

    I agree with Stefan, if the sweep pano method can be utilised easily and produce a large RAW file or some other form of lossless data (which I assume is not possible yet) then this can open up some new possibilities for certain applications.
    Still the issues of a small sensor vs a big sensor and the relation to DOF remain I believe
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  25. #25
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Yair

    of course "at the moment" we are just at the beginning of this technology. The camera and photoindustry as a whole need to understand that there is a TOTAL paradigm change of how photographic equipment is used. Until today there only was a mimicing of analogue processes mostly. It was tried to simulate the part of the film by a sensor. This works to a certain extent but has come to an end now.(we were speaking about this already, diffraction, price, mechanical tolerances, etc.pp). what happens now is that we are starting to understand that Digital opens a NEW and intelligent way to use photographic technology for never before achieved and even dreamed of purposes. For this we need to analyze what we already have and then use it fully - with software, computer/processing hardware and most of all connecting and communicate it.

    just one more link - because we are talking about architecture here originally - I think this is a killer image - look at it (in full screen mode) and then try to understand what really happens there:

    http://www.xrez.com/gallerypano/Giga...review.txt.php

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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  26. #26
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Have a look at these guys I think that their stitch engine and viewing implementation are quite good

    (the XRez is quite buggy, zoom out and pan and you start seeing errors and get error messages in the browser)

    Back to the topic, I think that there is still a lot to be said and to be liked about the process of creating an image with a digital back on a tech/ view camera and I don't think we have seen the end of it yet, far from it actually....

    I now have an AFi-II 12 back which is glued to my Arca-Swiss Rm2D; Rotating sensor, tilt screen, One lens (SK 43mm), all calibration files loaded to the cards, a small tripod with a ball head

    Light, simple and fun to use with image quality that is really tough to beat...
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Yair

    I think the german´s site images are much smaller. I have a 50 Mbit line here and this is really an eyepopper on the XRes site images.

    You are right about the actual equipment up to 80 Mpix. It´s working.
    Also the Hasselblad H4D200MS is working(which is somehow a proof of what I said about the Nex7).
    I am also working hard to get these backs fully used.
    But I doubt there will be ever 120Mpix or even higher resolving single shot backs.
    Not because it is not possible to get there somehow technically.
    But because of the market and the demand for it.

    So what is the plan for a future in 3-5 years ?

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  28. #28
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I think the technology is not there yet to make sure that verticals and horizontals are rendered properly in all parts of the moving-stitch, so for landscape applications, this might work, when only 1 row is needed. For multi-row I doubt it works, and for multi-exposure (HDR, focus stacking) applications, I also doubt it works.

    A good pano head and a DSLR would do the job, but this is the case in almost all areas, yet people still invest in MF systems, so I guess there is nothing new here.
    Carsten - Website

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Carsten

    we will know about the highresolution images exactly in January when the Nex7 will be delivered in numbers.
    until now you can already see Nex 3 and Nex5 images on Flickr:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarmo88...3668/lightbox/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/tarmo88...2740/lightbox/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/omargur...0878/lightbox/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/simonmu...4853/lightbox/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/faizal-...1478/lightbox/

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/naboria...8167/lightbox/

    these all show a significant distortion, but I am pretty sure this can be
    eliminated by a lens profile, in Photoshop, DXO or Capture One.

    As we may agree (I hope ;-) this is still new, but people will find a way to deal with this very fast. This may even become a threat for Canon´s 17 and 24mm TSE´s and definitely for longer focal lenght TS lenses.

    A tilting head (using the center of the front lens as a nodal point of the lens) and a Zoom may replace about any TS lenses very soon.

    The IQ Backs already have a straightening function built in, be asured that this can be easily in a Nex 10 with a full format 24x36 chip with 40 Mpix.

    Add this all up and the image clears !

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  30. #30
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post

    A tilting head (using the center of the front lens as a nodal point of the lens) and a Zoom may replace about any TS lenses very soon.
    Have you tried it ("tilting head")? Simple enough experiment to understand what would be required.

  31. #31
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Which back for architecture? Let's hijack the thread and suggest using an iPhone some day. Good idea: who cares what the initial quest was? Does this really have anything to do with "medium format systems and digital backs?"

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Vivek

    I will, my Nex 7 is already ordered.

    Overall I think the knowhow is already there (as xrez proofs), the Panorama people have already done tremendous work on this. It may take another 1-2 years before standard software packages will suport this kind of work , but there is already PTGui, AutopanoGiga and to some extent also Photoshop.
    The distortions get less the more shots you do and the longer the focal length is. I believe this is already used by sony doing 10 shots for this function in the Nex 7.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Which back for architecture? Let's hijack the thread and suggest using an iPhone some day. Good idea: who cares what the initial quest was? Does this really have anything to do with "medium format systems and digital backs?"
    Nebulous random thoughts do not have any boundaries.

  34. #34
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Stephen

    I don´t know how you define architecture and especially interiors, but what I have learned is that wide is never wide enough for this.
    A solution in the 52Mpix and up to 260 degrees of image angle range definitely competes with MF specs.

    and Vivek - I think I am absolutely centered on what the problem is.
    Even if some people simply don´t want to hear it. Why - I have no idea.
    But thank you for confirming that I try to cross boundaries.

    greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    To me this multishot technique is something I'd really want to avoid. Why is this going to be better/faster/more comfortable than using big sensor back? I just can't find the answer. It's probably fine for architecture but what about other genres? You see, it's very limiting technology then.

  36. #36
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Hi Alex

    I think it depends on your Work. If you need plenty of large images it makes a lot of sense to avoid postprocessing, buy a back as big as necessary, otherwise this can be additional hours (today) if you want to stitch with standard cameras.

    On the other hand if you need these image sizes only once in a while , it´s a bit like to drive shopping into the city with a 70 ton truck every day instead of using the Metro or a small e-car which can park everywhere.

    And last but not least - the difference may be a whopping 45000 € still in your pockets or not running as a leasing or depth on your bank.

    For many people THATS definitely an argument.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I guess that's no different from any other aspect in life - you have to pay to get higher level of comfort (or quality).

  38. #38
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I would pose a challenge for you, Stefan: pick some low-end camera of your choice, and use it to get medium format quality via stitching and HDR techniques. Post the results so we can judge the effort. That is more interesting than an untested idea.

    In my experience, stitching and HDR techniques benefit from good camera equipment just like other types of shots. The less stitching and the less exposures, the better, meaning that high dynamic range high resolution backs are still a better starting point.
    Carsten - Website

  39. #39
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Carsten

    would a powershot G10 fit your request - in this case I don´t have to do this- look here:

    http://gigapan.org/viewGigapanFullsc...648c2b4b06233c

    here is the frontpage,

    http://gigapan.org/

    there is a community with plenty of images with all kind of cameras, probably enough for hours to look at.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan

    PS.: I´m sorry this is not medium format quality- this is much better. I hope this counts.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Please look at the sky and tell me again that this is medium format quality. The pixel quality is also not great, nor is the lens qualities (look at that CA), they would need to downres by at least a factor of 2-4x before getting anywhere near the per-pixel quality of a good back. This is a straight stitch, there is nothing medium format about it other than high resolution.

    My challenge stands. This is not about resolution, this is about the whole package: resolution, dynamic range, tonality, colour accuracy. If you cannot achieve those with a smaller camera, you are not competing.
    Carsten - Website

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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I looked at those galleries and couldn't find any pic that I really like. Yes, I spent little time there but where are beautiful and professionaly done images? Are they hidden?

    I think those panos are just for scientific use... and for fun of those who made them.

  42. #42
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Please look at the sky and tell me again that this is medium format quality. The pixel quality is also not great, nor is the lens qualities (look at that CA), they would need to downres by at least a factor of 2-4x before getting anywhere near the per-pixel quality of a good back. This is a straight stitch, there is nothing medium format about it other than high resolution.

    My challenge stands. This is not about resolution, this is about the whole package: resolution, dynamic range, tonality, colour accuracy. If you cannot achieve those with a smaller camera, you are not competing.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexLF View Post
    I looked at those galleries and couldn't find any pic that I really like. Yes, I spent little time there but where are beautiful and professionaly done images? Are they hidden?

    I think those panos are just for scientific use... and for fun of those who made them.
    +1 on both counts
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  43. #43
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    I think it is useless - no matter what I point you at, you do not want to see.

    The sky is blown because the clouds were probably moving while the images were taken. But heck - who cares about the the Sky in this image ?
    These images are made by amateurs, who have totally other interests , as Alex mentioned.

    I have showed you links to beautiful stuff from XRez.com which you probably didn´t look at.

    You remind me to the black night in the film the Holy Grail by the Monthy Pythons. Look Ma no hands.........

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690

    but remember : There are no MF Backs made by Leica - so the red dot fraction can relax now. We are not talking about you guys.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
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  44. #44
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I think it is useless - no matter what I point you at, you do not want to see.

    ...

    I have showed you links to beautiful stuff from XRez.com which you probably didn´t look at.

    You remind me to the black night in the film the Holy Grail by the Monthy Pythons. Look Ma no hands.........

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhRUe-gz690

    but remember : There are no MF Backs made by Leica - so the red dot fraction can relax now. We are not talking about you guys.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    Stefan, just a word of advice: this attitude of yours is not very conducive to a fruitful exchange of opinions, and probably is not going to do your business much good either. While I am not a moderator or anything like that, from my experience I can say that looking down and patronizing is not taken favorably on GetDPI, where the atmosphere is generally very friendly and constructive.

    Just my .02 of course.
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  45. #45
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    What are you talking about? I listed 4 items your "solution" needs to compete: resolution, dynamic range, tonality, colour accuracy. If the solution doesn't have these to the same extent as medium format digital, back or Leica, then it doesn't compete. The shot you linked to had just 1 of the 4.

    I know it is possible to do it with smaller cameras. I do it with my D3. It is a load of work though, and I don't feel it is worth it.
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  46. #46
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Vieri

    I know this is the MF forum part. We have exchanged opinions. Obviously with not much result. This is not going to be productive anymore. I apologize to have interrupted the medium format praise. Oh btw, we also sell these systems, but I thought it would be helpful to see where we stand.

    Greetings from Munich
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  47. #47
    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: Which back for architecture/interiors?

    Stefan,

    to me, an important part of exchanging opinions is being ready to accept that your counterpart might not think like you, and might not change their ideas even after the opinion exchange. You seem, on the other hand, to label people who have a different opinion than yours as blind, narrow minded, brand fanboys, system fanboys and whatnot. More, you assume that the reason for them not to change their mind is not even having looked at the link you provided, thus labeling them as dishonest and not being in good faith in the debate.

    I really think that this attitude of yours is not conducive to a good debate, and will more likely than not harm your point in the discussion rather than help it. That said, I agree with you that this discussion is not going anywhere - see, we agree on something in the least
    Vieri Bottazzini
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