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Thread: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    I'm a little surprised that someone hasn't already posted this here but I'm sure I'm not the only one to be a little surprised and saddened by the news that Phase One will no longer be supporting service or repairs of H series P1 backs after Dec 31st 2011.

    I've no skin in this game as I'm not an H shooter but surely this is a HUGE deal for anyone who does use an H series Phase One back. Certainly in the software business we typically give our customers a reasonable amount of notice of end of life or support which is normally measured in terms of 12 months or more (actually much more). However, the note I got and the notice posted HERE suggests less than 30 days

    I didn't see anything on the PhaseOne site either btw or maybe I missed this post somewhere else on the site or LuLa and I am just late to the party?
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 7th December 2011 at 01:32.
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    H series means H5, H10, H20 and H25...and the original H101, which was the only back in the series that was made in Hasselblad H mount...

    Yair

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Certainly it isn't the sky falling as it is the H back series only, although it must be said that it is still rather an abrupt timeframe. Ho hum.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    So, for clarification, users of H mount Phase One backs like the P45(+), 65(+), etc, and new IQ backs on a H1 or H2 are not affected right, or wrong?

    Hope not, since Hasselblad just reopened the H platform with the H4X, so any H mount back could be used on the newer H4 camera platform.

    -Marc

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    The notice says H series, not H mount.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Certainly it isn't the sky falling as it is the H back series only, although it must be said that it is still rather an abrupt timeframe. Ho hum.
    +1.

    Bad communication as well from Phase One.

    I couldn't find anything on their website and the termination is too abrupt. They should have given at least 6 months or better a year.

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The notice says H series, not H mount.
    Got it. Thanks.

    -Marc

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    I've added a note to the article clarifying this only applies to "H series" not "H mount" backs.

    The difference between hardware and software vendors is that the Hardware relies on many physical hardware sub components. Software wise Capture One 6 supports even the original LightPhase digital back - both raw file decoding and tethering support. Not bad considering the LightPhase was released in 1998 (1 year before Apple launched OS9, 4 years before OSX). In comparison Canon (with their vast resources) does not even officially support the 5D Mark 1 (introduced in 2005) in their latest tethering software.

    But we completely agree; it would have been better to have at least six months notice provided. To be clear/fair Phase One provided us, as a Partner, the official notice in mid-October. We've been working since that time to find good upgrade options for those users; hence the delay until this week to post it. We definitely wish we had this done a few weeks ago.


    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    So, for clarification, users of H mount Phase One backs like the P45(+), 65(+), etc, and new IQ backs on a H1 or H2 are not affected?
    Doug or Yair, can we get a clear answer to this question?

    So if I want to purchase a P65 or IQ to work on my H1 I cannot or I can and get support?

    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    www.jecxz.com

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by jecxz View Post
    Doug or Yair, can we get a clear answer to this question?

    So if I want to purchase a P65 or IQ to work on my H1 I cannot or I can and get support?

    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    www.jecxz.com
    H-Series (LightPhase H5, H10, H101, H20, H25) were made between 1998 and 2004. Repairs/service for these backs is being discontinued December 31, 2011. The vast majority of these backs were made for the Hasselblad 500 series or other cameras that used that interface (e.g. Mamiya RB/RZ, View Cameras with a "V" mount). A handful were made for Mamiya 645 bodies and some were made for the Hasselblad H1 (H101).

    H-Mount backs (e.g. P65+H, IQ180H, P21H) are still 100% supported. Every back Phase One makes can be purchased in an H-mount and pre-owned H-mount backs are still readily available and fully supported by Phase One.

    To speak more specifically to your question. If you buy a 65+H today I suspect support will be extended in the form of tethering to the latest form of Capture One and availability or repairs/replacement-parts/service at least through 2018. To be clear there is no stated guarantee of this from Phase One; my comments are based on historical precedent and my knowledge of the system. If anything this is very likely a conservative estimation. An IQ series I would expect to be supported well into the next decade.

    In addition, at that far future date I would expect aggressive upgrade offers. In this case an H25 is being valued at $8000, which is far above it's market value.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Much appreciated Doug!

    Wrong thread but one last question: are there plans to increase the exposure time on the IQ180 and if so, to what?

    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    www.jecxz.com


    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    H-Mount backs (e.g. P65+H, IQ180H, P21H) are still 100% supported. Every back Phase One makes can be purchased in an H-mount and pre-owned H-mount backs are still readily available and fully supported by Phase One.

    To speak more specifically to your question. If you buy a 65+H today I suspect support will be extended in the form of tethering to the latest form of Capture One and availability or repairs/replacement-parts/service at least through 2018. To be clear there is no stated guarantee of this from Phase One; my comments are based on historical precedent and my knowledge of the system. If anything this is very likely a conservative estimation. An IQ series I would expect to be supported well into the next decade.

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by jecxz View Post
    Wrong thread but one last question: are there plans to increase the exposure time on the IQ180 and if so, to what?
    www.jecxz.com
    I'm sure long exposure quality will continue to improve incrementally for a while as the R+D guys find ways to eeke the last bit of capability out of the relatively new sensor in the IQ180. However, I'd wager the majority of the possible improvements have already been made (the improvements from beta firmware/hardware to the release hardware and current 1.47 firmware).

    The primary limitation is the sensor itself. The current Dalsa sensors cannot do what Kodak sensors do in regard to long exposures.

    In other words the current stated 2-minute limit at room temperature (IMO the real limit is around 100ish seconds) might is not likely to change greatly.

    If you're looking for great long exposure performance (up to an hour at room temperature) the P45+ will likely remain "king" for the foreseeable future. We have several IQ clients who either kept or also-purchased a P25+ / P30+ / P45+ for long exposures (and as a backup). We can sell a pre-owned P30+ with warranty and great condition for a good deal less than $10k.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Doug, thank you again, that's extremely disappointing news for me regarding the IQ series. I hope you guys can tweak more from it.

    Regarding the P series long exposure, I find it unacceptable (for me) to wait for the same time duration black exposure with every frame; I understand and accept that this is the way P1 chose to do it, but I cannot work that way, sorry, it's not meant as a criticism, I'm sure it's an acceptable solution for many.

    Please try to remember to PM me when the IQ series exposure time is bumped up. I'd appreciate it.

    Kind regards,
    Derek Jecxz
    www.jecxz.com


    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    If you're looking for great long exposure performance (up to an hour at room temperature) the P45+ will likely remain "king" for the foreseeable future. We have several IQ clients who either kept or also-purchased a P25+ / P30+ / P45+ for long exposures (and as a backup). We can sell a pre-owned P30+ with warranty and great condition for a good deal less than $10k.

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by jecxz View Post
    Doug, thank you again, that's extremely disappointing news for me regarding the IQ series. I hope you guys can tweak more from it.

    Regarding the P series long exposure, I find it unacceptable (for me) to wait for the same time duration black exposure with every frame; I understand and accept that this is the way P1 chose to do it, but I cannot work that way, sorry, it's not meant as a criticism, I'm sure it's an acceptable solution for many.
    No (ill-spirited) criticism felt. Not tool has every feature/capability and not every tool works for every photographer.

    I do not think you will see any change to this in the near-term. R+D is too fickle to make comments beyond the near-term other that to acknowledge that Phase One is aware some photographers need longer exposures than the IQ180 provides (they after all were the pioneers of MFD long exposure) and that the dark-frame is not something that works for every need.

    With Dalsa Phase One gained Sensor+ which is a GREAT tool for some workflows. They also gained the color rendering historically acknowledged as being best for skin tones and portraiture. In the process they gave up long exposure.

    Every piece of equipment is a compromise of features, cost, speed, quality, and flexibility.

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Hi,
    I'm totally confused. I have a P30+ but it says H101 on the back above the lcd screen. Does that mean that it is not supported for repair/service after 12/31/11?

    Thanks,
    Josh

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshMerwin View Post
    Hi,
    I'm totally confused. I have a P30+ but it says H101 on the back above the lcd screen. Does that mean that it is not supported for repair/service after 12/31/11?
    You have an H-mount P30+. It is in no way effected by this announcement pertaining to H-series backs which were produced 1998-2004.

    Did you follow the link and read the article or is your confusion based on this thread?
    http://www.captureintegration.com/20...grades-ending/

    I'm genuinely open to how we can rephrase or better notate our article.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    I got confused from the thread, then just read your article and thought I was ok. But I REALLY appreciate the quick clarification! Maybe listing the backs that are NOT affected as well would help. That way people know what is affected and what isn't. I bought the back two weeks ago off the FS listing here. It'smy first Phase back, so I am not familiar with the terminology designations of Phase backs of the past. Yair's post mentioned the "original H101", so I wasn't sure if that was a reference to mine. It's too bad for all the owners it does affect. I'm lucky/glad it doesn't affect mine though. Thanks again for the added info!

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Doug, I actually happened to read the article yesterday evening (before the posting here) and I initially misinterpreted it completely as well.
    Reading the entire article made it clear for me though.
    And the backs in question are truly called the H series but H series and H mount is so damned close together...

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    Doug, I actually happened to read the article yesterday evening (before the posting here) and I initially misinterpreted it completely as well.
    Reading the entire article made it clear for me though.
    And the backs in question are truly called the H series but H series and H mount is so damned close together...
    Perhaps I'll make a chart and add photos of said backs.

    We are visual people after all!

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    Re: Phase One H Series Back Support Ending 12/31/11

    In Phase One terminology H series clearly means the H-backs
    but in Hasselblad terminology the cameras themselves are also often being referred to as H series (next to H system)
    perhaps that is part of confusion...?

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