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Thread: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    SO - I am finally settling into C1 workflow..

    This weekend I was doing a product shoot with P65+ and 100mm macro lens, tight focus - a very fussy process of microadjustments as you can imagine.

    Perfect time to try out my Capture One Pilot app (on that brand spanky new Ipad 2)
    I've got the ipad next to the hero object on a white table.
    Camera poised and yet to shoot.
    I try to press that neat little capture button on the ipad.
    And the darn thing asks me for $14.99 upgrade charge!

    I paid it. When you are this deep into gear that seems cheap.
    But I felt like a Porsche dealer had just served me French press coffee.. and then asked for $2 to cover the beans..

    BTW- capture one pilot works beautifully. make sure you've got strong wifi signal for snappier image updates as you capture.


    Eric

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    I also just noticed that. Extremely poor form on Phase One's part. I'm waiting for a popup asking me to pay $20 to apply sharpening.

    In fairness, I just checked the website and they DO mention the $15 charge for activating these features. And the font isn't completely unreadable.

    Matt
    Last edited by MGrayson; 12th December 2011 at 07:31.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    LOL. Yea this one should be a freebie at least to Phase owners. Thought Phase should develop a Phase Club for back owners only. You register your back with them and you get free downloads for stuff like this. I can see the Canon guy or Nikon person paying but for owners of the backs and systems . No it should be a freebie along with a baseball hat to boot. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    I'm willing to bet that all of you have more than one app which you've paid for (Angry Birds?) and I think that $15 for having the added functionality of controlling your camera remotely is well worth it...

    (and yes I also had to pay for my copy...)

    yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    No excuses Yair we want it FREE. LOL

    Just kidding
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I also just noticed that. Extremely poor form on Phase One's part. I'm waiting for a popup asking me to pay $20 to apply sharpening.

    In fairness, I just checked the website and they DO mention the $15 charge for activating these features. And the font isn't completely unreadable.

    Matt
    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    LOL. Yea this one should be a freebie at least to Phase owners. Thought Phase should develop a Phase Club for back owners only. You register your back with them and you get free downloads for stuff like this. I can see the Canon guy or Nikon person paying but for owners of the backs and systems . No it should be a freebie along with a baseball hat to boot. LOL
    Agree with you both - and I'll throw in one better, for back owners I find it also VERY poor form to ask full price for the general version of Capture One (not the free DB one). They know that almost all of us have another camera system, and assuming we would like to use the same software to unify workflow and all that, after having us pay in the 10th of thousand dollars it seems to me that they could throw in C1 for free - as Guy said, setup a Phase Back Owners Club and let the CaNikon guys pay for it! We want it for free!! (thinking at the margin they have on these backs, "free" is a big word anyway...!)
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Heck my wife just bought all our workshop attendees gifts for Death Valley today. See we take care of our customers. ROTFLMAO

    I'm busting chops here. But seriously stuff like this goes a long way in building relationships with your customers. Oh am i going to get hate mail now. I don't care I'm badass and eat cobra for breakfast.

    See Link

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    I'm willing to bet that all of you have more than one app which you've paid for (Angry Birds?) and I think that $15 for having the added functionality of controlling your camera remotely is well worth it...

    (and yes I also had to pay for my copy...)

    yair
    Yair,

    Do you really think that this is about the $15? The term "nickel and dimeing" is not about the extremely valuable nickels and dimes. It's about behavior unworthy of a professional. You should not be trying to defend it.

    Matt

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    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    I really do like Phase very much and didn't mean to create a flammable thread.
    It was more amusing and slightly annoying..the extra fee.
    Given then multiple 10ks I am into phase for, $14.99 just seemed downright silly
    Especially the 99 cents!

    yes. I too just bought the full version of C1 too for my 5dmkII shoots
    But that I understand.

    Yes. I would like a free tee shirt and baseball hat at some point!

    Eric

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Not flammable at all. I think we are all just having a little fun. But it still would be nice and that really is kind of the point. A little perk sometimes just goes a long way.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Matt if you think of it as another item in the price list that has a low cost and that is required for enabling an added functionality (for example a mask for your focusing screen or an LCD cover) then I think you would agree that it doesn't necessarily have to be free

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    You insist on misunderstanding. No one is debating the value. It is worth twice $15. The surprise charge tactic, though, is offensive and is, as they say, priceless.

    Two apps: a free client version and a $15 pro version would have accomplished the same thing with no bad feelings.

    Matt

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    You insist on misunderstanding. No one is debating the value. It is worth twice $15. The surprise charge tactic, though, is offensive and is, as they say, priceless.
    My apologies Matt,

    I've just re-read your first post and realised my response was a bit hasty as you've already noted that the additional charge is mentioned on the site. (it is also mentioned in the Apps Store as an In-App purchase (click "More" on the right hand side) but perhaps it is not clear

    I'll pass your feedback to the relevant people in Denmark

    BR

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Matt if you think of it as another item in the price list that has a low cost and that is required for enabling an added functionality (for example a mask for your focusing screen or an LCD cover) then I think you would agree that it doesn't necessarily have to be free
    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    You insist on misunderstanding. No one is debating the value. It is worth twice $15. The surprise charge tactic, though, is offensive and is, as they say, priceless.

    Two apps: a free client version and a $15 pro version would have accomplished the same thing with no bad feelings.

    Matt
    Indeed - nobody is debating the value, but both the tactic & the fact that you'd think maybe Phase could throw it in as a perk to people who spend 20-30-40-50 K in their gear ($15 is about 0.1% of their cheapest back's price, after all - any retailer would give you a 0.1 % discount, especially if not in money but in their own products...). As Guy said, a little customer attention would cost very little and go a long way I don't think that there isn't space in their profit margin for that - if indeed they couldn't do it margin-wise, I think they'd be out of business pretty quick
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Phase One sent an email to end-users a few months back to offer just that. They provided a $15 iTunes gift card to anyone who registered their back. This included all legacy and current backs whether in the original owners hands or not.

    Maybe you opted out of their marketing email list?

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    I just assumed my back was registered.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Phase One sent an email to end-users a few months back to offer just that. They provided a $15 iTunes gift card to anyone who registered their back. This included all legacy and current backs whether in the original owners hands or not.

    Maybe you opted out of their marketing email list?

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
    __________________

    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
    Leaf, Leica, Cambo, Arca Swiss, Canon, Apple, Profoto, Broncolor, Eizo & More

    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Maybe I did not even get it, I certainly don't remember it. Okay now that is not exactly fair anyway, I can't remember anything. LOL

    Like Terry I thought my back was already registered on our purchase from the dealer. I would like that data confirmed please.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    Terry and Guy all you need to do is to connect your back to Capture One and to check the Update tab in the preferences. On that email that Doug has mentioned (Sept 7th 2011) there was a screen grab showing the update tab...

  19. #19
    eiaa
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    I still have all the Phase One emails online available. Unfortunately I have not received a email on Sept 7th 2011.
    The closest I could find was Sept 5th 2011 - "Take control with Capture Pilot".
    There is nothing mentioned about registering the digital back.
    Perhaps the mail was just delivered to the people who already have registered their digital back previously...

    Attachment 52381

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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    I got it on Sep. 7th. I've never registered a back before. It's a general iTunes $15 credit, you do not need to buy the app if you do not have any use for it.

    Cheers, -Peter

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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    It's also worth mentioning that because the App is distributed by Apple (which is the only way to offer software for the iPad/iPhone/iPodTouch) there is no way to limit a free version to just those who own a digital back.

    And to accomplish the offer to provide it for free to those registering their backs they actually had to pay out-of-pocket for iTunes gift cards; so they actually lost a bit more than $15 in cash for everyone who did this (I'm sure we can agree they can afford this, but it's still pretty unusual for a company to do) and they only got 70% of this back for those customers who then spent the $15 on Capture Pilot (since they had to send it as a standard gift card they could have also - for instance - bought Angry Birds for their kids in which case Phase would have gotten nothing back and would have effectively lose $15 in cash as a reward for developing an excellent tool).

    The Apple software distribution method here is the major limitation. If Phase could simply send out a discount code to their dealers in a way that cost them nothing (or something nominal) to give to their digital back customers I can almost guarantee you they would.

    I hope that makes sense. Phase really does think these things through (usually). I think it was pretty good of them to make the app itself free as it's by far the best-in-class app out there (assuming it's set up well). But it also added a lot of support load (having to have staff/support/developers knowledgable about the iOS platform and the myriad of Wifi routers and Wifi setups and the nuances of camera control limitations/issues of a dozen supported cameras.

    Phase One opened their software up to third party cameras very early on and it remains one of the best decisions they ever made. The revenue from dSLR users buying Capture One is the major source of funding/justification for the significant cost of developing software that competes head-to-head with behemoths like Adobe and Apple (in many areas exceeding it, some areas a bit behind, but in any case very competitive). Without that funding Phase One would likely have software at the level of it's medium format competitors. That first-class software is provided for free for use with any digital back from Phase One and all recent Leaf/Mamiya digital backs (Capture One DB) - without limitation of number of computers and with free upgrades to future versions. It is only if you want to use the software with a Canon/Nikon to make those products better that you have to pay for the Pro version of the software. They in fact do include Capture One Pro with digital backs when you purchase the Value Added Warranty which is what I would prefer everyone buy - but of course many will opt for the less expensive Classic Warranty and as a way of making those kits less expensive they do not include Pro.

    You can really bounce these issues anyway you want marketing / business / perception wise. You can ALWAYS afford to throw in something more, but where is the limit? I would love them to throw in a 32gb card and 12 Eneloop AA batteries with every back and a 10-year warranty, but everything costs and I think it's more fair to lay out non-essential accessories/options as separate items so each photographer can decide what they want to pay for (as including it for free will, by definition, increase the average price required to make the target revenue). For instance a photographer who already has 10 CF cards will not want the underlying cost of the kit he buys to be raised by the "free" inclusion of a CF card. Nor does a photographer who never shoots tethered want the underlying cost to be raised by the development of a tether-only app like Capture Pilot. Normally software would be a different story since it can be "thrown in" at zero incremental cost. But especially when talking about the App store that is not actually the case.

    Don't get me wrong though; I understand how you feel. I felt much the same when I had to pay my $15 for personal use. It's a gut feeling of just being nickel and dimed. But I hope the above explains why that isn't the reality of the situation.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Head of Technical Services, Capture Integration
    Phase One Partner of the Year
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    National: 877.217.9870 *| *Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Last edited by dougpeterson; 13th December 2011 at 08:11.

  22. #22
    Senior Member faneuil's Avatar
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    Re: capture pilot 14.99 sucker punch!

    thanks Doug for the well phrased response.
    I missed that 15 USD itunes email.. no biggee.
    would be nice if that offer didn't have a time limit and extended to all phase back owner who register.

    or a tee-shirt..which I would proudly wear to the gym

    Eric

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