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Thread: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    As you probably will agree Shelby, AF is sometimes highly overrated:-)

    Cesar Lloreda in action

    Nice work Mario and let us know if you need any advice!

    Yair
    This example is not relevant to Mario.
    The photographer is shooting stopped way down and with harsh direct strobe.
    Both would kill the atmosphere in Mario's photos.
    Also the example shown is a case where pre focusing works just fine.
    The bike is jumping up in the same spot.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    A rig to die for!!!
    Eduardo

    Cesar Lloreda in action

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Bottom line you can't do faster than 1/250 with flash sync on a DSLR PERIOD.

    Not quite true. I shoot with hypersync with Canon Speedlights.
    Plenty of loss of power, but 4 Speedlights bound up in a pod do just fine.

    I also shoot high sync speeds with my elinchrom studio flashes using Pocket wizards special function. it's a little fiddly, but I can reach speeds of 1/2000th.
    I do lose significant power, but starting with 3000 w/s or 6,000 w/s that's not a problem.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    ......I have a Phase 150mm D on test at the moment which, without doubt is one hell of a fine lens but it doesn't produce that very, very soft gaussian blur type of OOF backgrounds that the fast Canon's do and I've never seen any other MF glass that does. Hence the popularity of the 50 and 85 f1.2 L lenses.
    There are MF lenses that have outstanding bokeh

    Here are a few...

    The very best is the Fuji gx680 180mm f3.2 6x8.

    The background in this one is a tough one for bokeh... sun poking through leaves.



    Carl Zeiss 110mm f2 Hasselblad or Rollei

    From flickr



    Carl Zeiss 180mm 2.8 Rollei

    Carl Zeiss jena 180mm 2.8

    From fickr

    Apart from great bokeh the Carl zeiss jena 180 2.8 has a very magical quality to it...


    All of these IMHO produce nicer images than the Canon 85mm 1.2. While the backround is smooth the foreground does not have the same dimentional feel of larger format lenses.

    A runner up is the Mamiya 200mm f2.8 (although the 2.8 is well a wee bit darker than all my other 2.8 lenses)

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    Not quite true. I shoot with hypersync with Canon Speedlights.
    Plenty of loss of power, but 4 Speedlights bound up in a pod do just fine.

    I also shoot high sync speeds with my elinchrom studio flashes using Pocket wizards special function. it's a little fiddly, but I can reach speeds of 1/2000th.
    I do lose significant power, but starting with 3000 w/s or 6,000 w/s that's not a problem.
    Fred seriously not even in the same league as unleashing full juice on the real strobes out there and more important bringing the sun to desktop light.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Thing is though Guy, the sample the OP showed us didn't use that kind of lighting at all, if that is representative of his look then a couple of speedlites on a pole giving up to a 1/8000 (you have to get close up but again for his kind of thing that shouldn't be a problem) is sufficient for when needed and a whole heck of a lot cheaper than fast sync profoto gear. The look of the portraits which he's shows shot with the 'blad are nice but they're very very different to the look of the original pictures (which I prefer, this killing sun dead and blasting strobe thing won't last many more years in portraiture IMO, it's far more suited to fashion). It's a look which suits the MFDB's but personally I far prefer the look of the former stuff.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Ben shooting wide open is not always easy. I'm shooting fashion lately outside and to even kill the overblown sky you need flash power that can at least get to F8 and trust me with a 110 the bokeh still sings. I'm not blasting anything just trying to get a good balance. that's hard to do when your in full sun. How about a group shot at a wedding for example your at least 15 ft away and need to cover a large area and get the DOF remember we lose at least 2 stops in MF . I would not shoot anything wider than F11 here. Those small flashes won't cut it. I shoot many things and I want to be ready for bear and those small flash high sync stuff is good to maybe 5ft. There fine for some things but not for everything. I'm not saying its the most important assets here in MF far from it but a consideration when getting a Hassy and Phase gear is your system has this ability over anything else. No question 1/1600 is a rare occasion but 1/800 is a nice option to have when you need it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Wrote a whole long post then realised I'd better be able to verify my facts, back soon

    EDIT good thing I did check otherwise I would have made a fool of myself

    Having investigated certain solutions to match the shutter lens advantage on 35mm including hypersync, sync at all shutter speeds (at the expense of loss of power), the use of hi-sync (with the same caveat albeit worse), etc, none of these solutions work unless you have a specific type of shooting you do that can work with specific equipment. It can work if you choose one camera, a specific transmitter, a specific light and specific modifier and pretty much never need to change that combo. It works for me for example for my wedding work and to be honest it might work for the OP. The moment you have to be able to rent, use different lights and different modifiers or different cameras, such as a commercial or fashion shooter, all these workarounds have no place in your bag. They're too specific in their requirements, too specific how they will work and when they will work. Pretty much the same for all these strobist types of things. Not that they don't work in a pro enviroment, just that it has to be a very specific type of pro enviroment.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 30th January 2012 at 03:04.
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Thing is though Guy, the sample the OP showed us didn't use that kind of lighting at all, if that is representative of his look then a couple of speedlites on a pole giving up to a 1/8000 (you have to get close up but again for his kind of thing that shouldn't be a problem) is sufficient for when needed and a whole heck of a lot cheaper than fast sync profoto gear. The look of the portraits which he's shows shot with the 'blad are nice but they're very very different to the look of the original pictures (which I prefer, this killing sun dead and blasting strobe thing won't last many more years in portraiture IMO, it's far more suited to fashion). It's a look which suits the MFDB's but personally I far prefer the look of the former stuff.
    Not sure I agree with this Ben ... and not just because I happen to shoot MFD ... I also shoot with Sony A900s and a Leica M9 and extremely fast lenses ... the latter with no flash at all. Before that Nikon, and before that Canon.

    I do agree that the OPs 35mm stuff is quite appealing and has a certain look. However, no disrespect to the abilities, obvious talent and connection with the subject of the OP, the "look" is getting common based on the proliferation of the same gear used by almost everyone ... my assistant's work is pretty similar with her 5D and 85/1.2 etc.. Keep in mind that I'm speaking about look, not all the other elements that make up a successful shot.

    I think some shooters are looking to MFD to differentiate themselves .... employing what I call the Wonder Bra strategy ... "Lift and Separate"

    Shelby became involved in MFD for personal exploration ... and IMO, his work, while not the same look as his A900 shots with fast lenses, has taken him to a new level that is far more involving than his previous work was. It is simply deeper on many levels ... less dependent on superficial impact. I've seen a lot of Shelby's work over the years now, and the ones indelibly burned into my skull are the shots of his children with his RZ and Buff lights. Hell, the guy is just getting going ... can't wait until he's even more versed with the gear.

    On the other hand, David S. is exploring the commercial side to see where MFD can take him.

    The common element here is that both, while very good photographers, are relatively new to MFD. Trust me, it takes a while for MFD to be an old shoe where you don't have to think about the gear, which I'm sure Guy will confirm. I have almost no distinction between handing my MFD camera and using a 35mm DSLR ... it's just second nature. Then the connection with subject isn't an issue, and I can work the controls of my Hasselblad like a trumpet player without taking my eye from the viewfinder.

    Lighting and sync speeds is another subject, and I also disagree that it won't last many more years ... In fact, I believe if one doesn't get with that program, it will be you who is dead in the water in a few years. After all, it is the last bastion to distinguish yourself from the growing herd of shooters that often have as good or better camera than you do, and because of the wide-spread info and instruction on the web, know how to use it.

    When I look at the work of my friend Irakly, how his unique content is masterfully lit, I can say for certain that there is no chance in Hell of it becoming a "herd technique" seen on every facebook page in the world.

    -Marc

    BTW, My 2 ...I think shooting Seniors is more like fashion than portraiture anyway.
    Last edited by fotografz; 30th January 2012 at 05:22.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Ask yourself what kind off shot(s) you like to make under what kind of condition(s) for what aims and what effects...for what audience and what use at what return ..

    I think the word "switching" is a very dangerous word - because no MFD camera can do what a 35mm DSLR can do as well as a 35mm DSLR can do it

    Likewise no 35mm DSLR can do what a MFD SLR system can do for you

    Each system and the choices within each system are better at something and more compromised at other things

    Most replies you got here so far are very good observations based on experience from quite a few pro shooters.

    Funny thing is that most use both 35mm and MFD.

    Think about adding MF to the arsenal - rather than ditching 35mm, less chance for regret - my guess is you will end up buying a 35mm something if you sell what you have anyway...this can be a needlessly expensive exercise.

    love my MF gear - but it can't be a 35mm camera and vica versa.

    Pete

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Ask yourself what kind off shot(s) you like to make under what kind of condition(s) for what aims and what effects...for what audience and what use at what return ..

    I think the word "switching" is a very dangerous word - because no MFD camera can do what a 35mm DSLR can do as well as a 35mm DSLR can do it

    Likewise no 35mm DSLR can do what a MFD SLR system can do for you

    Each system and the choices within each system are better at something and more compromised at other things

    Most replies you got here so far are very good observations based on experience from quite a few pro shooters.

    Funny thing is that most use both 35mm and MFD.

    Think about adding MF to the arsenal - rather than ditching 35mm, less chance for regret - my guess is you will end up buying a 35mm something if you sell what you have anyway...this can be a needlessly expensive exercise.

    love my MF gear - but it can't be a 35mm camera and vica versa.

    Pete
    Yep, that should have been said up front Pete. Besides, even if one did want to move directly to MFD it would be also be dangerous move because one needs to learn the system. Heck, when I moved from Nikon to Sony, I waited a year before unloading the Nikon stuff just to be sure.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    In the same breath they are backups to each other as well.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Lighting and sync speeds is another subject, and I also disagree that it won't last many more years ... In fact, I believe if one doesn't get with that program, it will be you who is dead in the water in a few years. After all, it is the last bastion to distinguish yourself from the growing herd of shooters that often have as good or better camera than you do, and because of the wide-spread info and instruction on the web, know how to use it.
    Really not sure Marc, when done for lightings sake it looks incredible, when done for effect, that's already getting rather old. I heard that Zack Arias said 'when everyone is shooting ambient, shoot off camera, when everyone is shooting off camera, shoot ambient'. He's got a point. You have to choose a look which is used to say something about an image not just because that's the look at the moment. In the wedding business at least, I don't know enough about the portraiture business to comment though from what I see it is the same, the latter rather than the former is far more common.

    I've partnered with a guy now and we're shooting the wedding scene here in Jerusalem. Here everyone is and has been using the flash kill ambient look for a while now. We use it when it suits the image but only then, preferring ambient with a touch of fill if necessary. We have the highest prices in the city at present for wedding photography and we only started shooting together last year.

    Not that I think we disagree at all, I just think that the flash kill ambient look for portraiture as a style has its days numbered. My partner is actually writing an article for the blog at the moment on the subject of not getting married to a 'look' but rather having a style which is independant of external factors to create that look. You use external lighting when you want to give a certain look Marc and I think that, far more than the fact you use it and the wannabees aren't, is why you will still be head and shoulders above the rabble whatever cameras and lenses they buy.

    I did a quick engagement shoot for a couple a few hours ago. 5D with 50mm lens. The guy is a photographer, he couldn't believe what I could accomplish with such simple equipment on some rain soaked steps near my house. They can buy all the gear they want, until they can do magic with it, it doesn't mean anything. Heck just how hard is it to learn off camera lighting? Strobist has pushed it to the forefront till the point that it doesn't take much to do or even to do pretty well but however fast your lenses, however FF your camera, however good your off camera lighting, without vision, without experience it don't mean squat.
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    In the same breath they are backups to each other as well.
    +1

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    BTW, My 2 ...I think shooting Seniors is more like fashion than portraiture anyway.
    Yes and no, in my experience. There are usually two clients with seniors; the senior and the mom. So while you need to display and present a fashion look, if for no other reason than marketing and creating an "experience" for the senior, often mom's credit card comes out only for traditional portraiture. I've had good luck in combining the two into a wall composites so I make everyone happy and have a bit larger sale. Still, my most popular seller is a well crafted yearbook photo in old fashion drape.

    Marc is exactly correct in saying it takes some time to be totally comfortable moving from dslr to mf. On Saturday I was to photograph a group on location made up of several adult children, grandparents, children. I set it up the background and lighting so I could do the families separately and planned to stitch them together. In an instant my contact person said we had no time to do what we had discussed and I could only do the whole group of all 27, ages 2 1/2 to 82, at one time. I knew I had to switch from 100mm to 35mm lens, get up on ladder to minimize differences in head sizes, I bumped up the ISO and f-stop so I had more dof without changing the lighting. I did all those technical things just fine, but in thinking about the technical things, I did a substandard job posing the group. If I was using my dslr, I probably just would have taken out the ladder and zoomed out a bit and concentrated more on the posing of the group. A clear case of me still getting use to the mf tools. I admit it. No question I'll do better the next time that happens and client probably won't notice, but it's pretty obvious to me I should have done better. But a valuable learning experience.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Possibly David, but possibly what makes you a pro is that you can get the shot when things change suddenly on you.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Schneider View Post
    Yes and no, in my experience. There are usually two clients with seniors; the senior and the mom.
    This is a make-or-break realization in the senior market.

    Even those who don't shoot drapes most likely sell a disproportionally high number of quasi-traditional headshots in comparison to the more edgy fashion work. When I shot seniors basically full-time, I almost never sold the shots that would have won awards for compositional or lighting prowess. It was always the tighter headshot that showed a connection with the eyes.

    Moms love them.

    I can say, however, as I move more towards shooting primarily faces... MF gives a sense a dimensionality and connectedness with faces that the 35mm can't touch, generally... given good lenses and technique. So, from that side of things, it has the potential to work well in the senior market, even if the clients can't quite tell what it is that makes the images so special. In this regard, flash sync is not so much an issue as is lens drawing style and sensor size (though IMO 44x33 is still closer to MF "look" than it is to 35)
    Last edited by Shelby Lewis; 30th January 2012 at 10:38.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Possibly David, but possibly what makes you a pro is that you can get the shot when things change suddenly on you.
    Ben,

    That begs the question of "what makes you a pro" and that's a never ending topic for a different thread. lol That would hijack Mario's thread for months.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Being broke qualifys very well. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Guy, just a matter of interest, if you'd stuck with your 1DsII and canon lenses all those years ago and kept on shooting them till today, just how much would you have saved?

    No I'm not in cahoots with your wife...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Great question and really afraid to answer it but 75k sounds pretty damn reasonable. You tell my wife I'm coming after you bud. ROTFLMAO

    The problem is when i started back up on my own again in 2001 when I left the corporate photog gig, I really wanted to go straight to MF digital but it was a 50k buy in than and nowhere near what we have today. One of my biggest mistakes was selling off the 1DS the original and as many here may tell ya it was the best one they ever made as far as look in images, after that it was painful for canon. Its better today no doubt but they had a terrible span there IMHO now if Leica with the DMR was 18mpx i may have never done anything after that , thats if it was similar in newer LCD , sensor and such. Back than things are nowhere near what they are today with so many decent choices even the 4/3rds stuff is really good. Really bad timing for those that started the revolution back than and I go back as far as 1991 I believe with digital. Things are much better today and the gaps are getting tighter and tighter. Im not willing to give up on MF as I see many huge advantages of it as far as image and clients as well. Downsides sure there are some for sure an it takes a lot more work than I think many want to give it. The big one is you controlling it than it controlling you. Ben everyday we have folks like Mario that want to move up and improve and I see these folks as wanting to take there art further and jump in the gate. Folks like us that are so wonderful here are huge assists to these folks. As a Pro and to my fellow Pros here we need to help guide these folks so they learn from our mistakes and I have made plenty along the way and I don't look back going ah **** i really screwed up. The reality is it helped me grow and it was one of the reasons Jack and I started this place was to give back and the members here are the best of the lot. We don't always agree and we should not as well but its fun to chew the fat and make friends. I still learn everyday here, now that is what it really is all about. Sometimes that learning curve digs deep in our pockets no question about it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Sorry I haven't put a lot of input in fellas... I've really just been reading and listening. Nothing is going unheard I promise though, just absorbing.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Read , absorb and do your homework this is a big decision.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Fred seriously not even in the same league as unleashing full juice on the real strobes out there and more important bringing the sun to desktop light.
    While the leaf shutter option is simpler it too has it's limits.

    You can use studio strobes with with high speed sync with a Canon and the pocket wizard. You lose a fair bit of power, but a 6 K pack will give you more than enough power. You do have to use a relatively slow flash so that the light output is enough to cover the time required for the shutter sweep.

    Something to keep in mind is that you can go faster with a Canon than a Phase Mamiya. It's a bit tricky but once you have it setup for you camera and flash power setting it is reliable.

    All I am pointing out is that it's possible to do.

    Another important thing to keep in mind though is that the with the Phase Mamiya it is a 1/1600th real durration. With the Canon it is an exposure of upto 1/4000th, but it is carried out over 1/250th of a second, so fast moving objects will have some distortion.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Great question and really afraid to answer it but 75k sounds pretty damn reasonable. You tell my wife I'm coming after you bud. ROTFLMAO

    The problem is when i started back up on my own again in 2001 when I left the corporate photog gig, I really wanted to go straight to MF digital but it was a 50k buy in than and nowhere near what we have today. One of my biggest mistakes was selling off the 1DS the original and as many here may tell ya it was the best one they ever made as far as look in images, after that it was painful for canon. Its better today no doubt but they had a terrible span there IMHO now if Leica with the DMR was 18mpx i may have never done anything after that , thats if it was similar in newer LCD , sensor and such. Back than things are nowhere near what they are today with so many decent choices even the 4/3rds stuff is really good. Really bad timing for those that started the revolution back than and I go back as far as 1991 I believe with digital. Things are much better today and the gaps are getting tighter and tighter. Im not willing to give up on MF as I see many huge advantages of it as far as image and clients as well. Downsides sure there are some for sure an it takes a lot more work than I think many want to give it. The big one is you controlling it than it controlling you. Ben everyday we have folks like Mario that want to move up and improve and I see these folks as wanting to take there art further and jump in the gate. Folks like us that are so wonderful here are huge assists to these folks. As a Pro and to my fellow Pros here we need to help guide these folks so they learn from our mistakes and I have made plenty along the way and I don't look back going ah **** i really screwed up. The reality is it helped me grow and it was one of the reasons Jack and I started this place was to give back and the members here are the best of the lot. We don't always agree and we should not as well but its fun to chew the fat and make friends. I still learn everyday here, now that is what it really is all about. Sometimes that learning curve digs deep in our pockets no question about it.
    Answering this question always cracks me up Guy. As I was "Spring Cleaning" my studio area the past 2 weeks, and tossing the equivalent of thousands of $ in obsolete gear and outdated junk, etc. etc. I mused how I'd like all that money back. Yet, the reason I wanted it back ... was to buy more stuff for the studio

    We buy gear because it is part of keeping our interest charged up ... to explore different areas, to expand, or just to have creative options at our finger-tips. Photographers are part artist and part MacGyver during some part of the trek.

    No matter how business savvy a Pro might be, there is a bit of the enthusiast in them to some degree or another, and most would be hard pressed to justify what they have in their gear vault in pure logical terms.

    Working professional or terminally infected enthusiast, photography is what we do.

    Quite frankly, people come to sites like this not only to make an informed decision, but sometimes to gather logical justification for a lustful "Want & Gimme"

    Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Did I mention the Aptus II 8 with full DF system I ordered last week for the repro studio which is finally on track? I'd wondered how long I could keep shtum about it on this thread while I played devils advocate...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    This is a make-or-break realization in the senior market.

    Even those who don't shoot drapes most likely sell a disproportionally high number of quasi-traditional headshots in comparison to the more edgy fashion work. When I shot seniors basically full-time, I almost never sold the shots that would have won awards for compositional or lighting prowess. It was always the tighter headshot that showed a connection with the eyes.

    Moms love them.

    I can say, however, as I move more towards shooting primarily faces... MF gives a sense a dimensionality and connectedness with faces that the 35mm can't touch, generally... given good lenses and technique. So, from that side of things, it has the potential to work well in the senior market, even if the clients can't quite tell what it is that makes the images so special. In this regard, flash sync is not so much an issue as is lens drawing style and sensor size (though IMO 44x33 is still closer to MF "look" than it is to 35)
    No different for any portrait session, newborn session, pregger session, or wedding scenario ... not just seniors.

    However, that isn't what necessarily gets you the job these days.

    I get hired for the creative stuff, and then print sales are the standard stuff usually from Moms and Grandmas, or a portrait taken on the fly of a couple at the wedding, etc. I may shoot 500 pics at a wedding, 450 being PJ and at most spend an hour out of an eight hour gig spent on directed shots ... and 90% of the print sales are from that hour's work. But, I've never once been hired for that type of work ... that isn't the criteria of most clients, they don't hire you for that.

    Same for family portraits, seniors, pregnant photography, even some corporate work I've done.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Mario, I've been doing this for a looooog time. I've run parallel systems since before digital. Medium Format and 35mm have always been complimentary as opposed to conflicting ways of working.

    Only because of the more recent cost of Medium Format digital has it become an either/or scenario for some shooters. IMO, if you have to sacrifice having a decent 35mm solution to afford MFD, then MFD is too expensive an option. The caveat to that is if you know MFD can do everything you want, or you want to focus entirely on mastering MFD and have the luxury of time to do that.

    My advice is to think of it as complimentary ... structure a MFD system that does more of what the 35mm can't ... and think longer term not just for now.

    Sync speeds is one of those "complimentary" things ... either the Hasselblad H or Phase one IQs that offer that higher sync ability. Select a faster camera if that's the way you work. An H4D/50 is nice, but a H4D/40 or IQ140 is much more appropriate to your style. It doesn't have to necessarily be bank busting ... there's a guy selling a H4D/40 kit in the F/S section for $14K. I sold one for about that much.

    Best of luck,

    -Marc
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    While the leaf shutter option is simpler it too has it's limits.

    You can use studio strobes with with high speed sync with a Canon and the pocket wizard. You lose a fair bit of power, but a 6 K pack will give you more than enough power. You do have to use a relatively slow flash so that the light output is enough to cover the time required for the shutter sweep.

    Something to keep in mind is that you can go faster with a Canon than a Phase Mamiya. It's a bit tricky but once you have it setup for you camera and flash power setting it is reliable.

    All I am pointing out is that it's possible to do.

    Another important thing to keep in mind though is that the with the Phase Mamiya it is a 1/1600th real durration. With the Canon it is an exposure of upto 1/4000th, but it is carried out over 1/250th of a second, so fast moving objects will have some distortion.
    Interesting. Pretty exotic, but interesting. Maybe off topic a bit ... but the OP did say he also uses strobes.

    What gear can do this Fred?

    The least expensive 6,000w/s generator I could find is the Hensel Tria 6,000-S (Speed) with a MH6,000 head. The duration at full 6,000w/s out-put is 1/330 with one head ... with a turtle slow recycle time of 4.25 sec. Bet this sucker would trip the circuit breakers at most location sites

    Hensel Tria 6000-S Power Pack (120-240V) 3660 B&H Photo Video

    HENSEL-VISIT GmbH & Co. KG:*MH 6000

    Seems like everything else costs more than a MFD kit would.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Did I mention the Aptus II 8 with full DF system I ordered last week for the repro studio which is finally on track? I'd wondered how long I could keep shtum about it on this thread while I played devils advocate...
    "Don't do as I do, do as I say" ...

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Marc, do you ever sleep?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    "Don't do as I do, do as I say" ...
    Thing is Marc, the tounge in cheek question to Guy, I'm a believer that equipment and especially upgrade in equipment must be financially justifiable otherwise we have to admit that we are doing it for ourselves. The point where this line gets blurred is where it makes our job easier but I believe that it too can be assigned a financial value.

    If having superior equipment will put you into a higher price bracket or attract clientele that will enable that higher price bracket then the math can be worked out as to whether it's worth it financially. If due to better equipment or software I can work faster and in a better mood then that too will have a direct effect on the business.

    If as you explained using different equipment is the route to an opening of the mind, an ability to explore new avenues then that too will have a direct effect on a business if channelled correctly.

    Guy, don't kill me for doing some speculation. We have an approximate figure of $75K for the 6 or so years that Guy has been playing hopscotch with his equipment. Whether shooting with this equipment over those 6 years rather than using a 1DsII has brought in $75K (actually longer as his current equipment is a current investment but anyway) is a good question. I have little doubt that it has opened up new markets for his business. Those markets will be bringing in money at a level perhaps impossible in 'lower' markets. Then there is the educational aspect of it. Opening new markets and becoming well versed in MF has made Guy a 'name' in the MF world to the extent that he was an instructor at PODAS. That wouldn't have happened if he was still using a 1DsII. I doubt his high end workshops of which this website is just an offshoot would have become possible without his journey through the MF world and keeping up to date within that world. Your wife may not agree Guy but I'll bet that by the time you retire you will have made a nice profit from this investment which would not have happened if you had not sold that 1DsII all those years ago.

    We are however using Marc's concept of MF opening up new markets. If you are doing well in a certain market with your current gear, are unlikely to be able to tap into a higher spending client base within that market based on more expensive gear and are not looking to branch out to newer and higher markets, the math may not work out to the extent of declaring that it is a purely business expense. To use this as a personal example I believe this would be the case for wedding photography and the use of MF for most of the worldwide market.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    I was in a gallery displaying some landscape work from a very successful landscape photographer - he has two galleries of his own in Australia and I believe has opened a couple over in the US.

    I think MF digital is creating new expectations and new markets for landscape photography printed in large scale.

    I was rather disturbed to note that my own critical viewing of his work (which ranged from postcard to 2X6meter in size - for the same shot or source file) was being biased towards those landscapes which evidenced the greatest amount of detail...I am ashamed to admit publicly - that I was (in effect) pixel peeping as a primary filter - in my appreciation and ratings of landscapes. It was obvious which shots were made with traditional film and scan and print - versus the elephant gun back shots...

    You really "see' the power of lotsa megapixels when you have the opportunity to see them - in stuff printed humungously large...

    I think the choice between a high end SLR35mm or MFD for regular prints??? - well I am thinking that the advantages of MFD recede dramatically...

    The same shots printed postcard sized 35mm or XPan or MF film versus MF digital - the difference is essentially non existent to my eyes anyway..

    I am guessing for certain high end super duper produced massive budget exercises from the 10 or so luxury cosmetic brands out there or 20 or so haught couture houses - well for sure the MF digi back and ten times that value in lighting / makeup / talent / art direction location etc etc etc

    Maybe pitching for work with movie stars - from my experience with a couple - they have become expert packagers of themselves as a product and brand and know enough about the value of a good photograph - to connect high end MFD with requisite symbols indicating validation for the photographer..

    Well I guess I am just saying that I can imagine all sorts of uses for a MFD camera - for all sorts of different people and circumstance

    however for most parts I am also pretty sure that for most photographers and most photographs and most uses of the photograph - today's pro level 35mm cameras are more than adequate.

    It all depends on where a person sees his or her business model or objective being.


    In order to avoid regret - it is probably a good idea to really know exactly why you want this stuff...

    and then - all you have to blame is yourself for whatever decision you come up with.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Really not sure Marc, when done for lightings sake it looks incredible, when done for effect, that's already getting rather old. I heard that Zack Arias said 'when everyone is shooting ambient, shoot off camera, when everyone is shooting off camera, shoot ambient'. He's got a point. You have to choose a look which is used to say something about an image not just because that's the look at the moment. In the wedding business at least, I don't know enough about the portraiture business to comment though from what I see it is the same, the latter rather than the former is far more common.

    I've partnered with a guy now and we're shooting the wedding scene here in Jerusalem. Here everyone is and has been using the flash kill ambient look for a while now. We use it when it suits the image but only then, preferring ambient with a touch of fill if necessary. We have the highest prices in the city at present for wedding photography and we only started shooting together last year.

    Not that I think we disagree at all, I just think that the flash kill ambient look for portraiture as a style has its days numbered. My partner is actually writing an article for the blog at the moment on the subject of not getting married to a 'look' but rather having a style which is independant of external factors to create that look. You use external lighting when you want to give a certain look Marc and I think that, far more than the fact you use it and the wannabees aren't, is why you will still be head and shoulders above the rabble whatever cameras and lenses they buy.

    I did a quick engagement shoot for a couple a few hours ago. 5D with 50mm lens. The guy is a photographer, he couldn't believe what I could accomplish with such simple equipment on some rain soaked steps near my house. They can buy all the gear they want, until they can do magic with it, it doesn't mean anything. Heck just how hard is it to learn off camera lighting? Strobist has pushed it to the forefront till the point that it doesn't take much to do or even to do pretty well but however fast your lenses, however FF your camera, however good your off camera lighting, without vision, without experience it don't mean squat.
    How hard is off-camera? Not hard to do it poorly ... not much harder to do in a mediocre manner ... incredibly hard to do it well, especially if you are crippled by using inadequate gear, or stuff involving complex work-arounds.

    No question Ben ... talent is the dam buster. That's the fall back position, stock answer for any of these discussions ... "It's the shooter, not the gear". Yet, without certain gear choices, one is boxed in by what is not possible, as opposed to what is possible. (Personally, I do not like wearing hand-cuffs to prove I'm creative ).

    The notion of lighting use or not as a style definer is NOT one I subscribe to ... so Zack Aria's quote doesn't resonate with me at all. To me it isn't one or the other, it is a matter of absolute control and choice when and where I chose to exercise my creative vision for any given scenario. I may shoot an ambient engagement session with my M9 and 2 lenses one day, and the next day a session with giant Mola Beamm dish and soft-boxes using 2400w/s with a MFD rig. The subject, and my vision of it dictates what, when, where and how the gear is deployed ... and over the years I've built the capability to do that ... or rent it if it's a rare item.

    It never even entered my mind to shoot the attached commissioned portrait image for poster sized prints in a soft dreamy manner with ambient glow ... or use anemic speed-lights that would have melted down into smoldering pile of plastic 20 minutes into the shoot. This session has lead to a slew of commissions to shoot people in peak physical condition (not just body builders), and opened up a whole new untapped category of paying work for me ... so I can be more picky about wedding work.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Thing is Marc, the tounge in cheek question to Guy, I'm a believer that equipment and especially upgrade in equipment must be financially justifiable otherwise we have to admit that we are doing it for ourselves. The point where this line gets blurred is where it makes our job easier but I believe that it too can be assigned a financial value.

    If having superior equipment will put you into a higher price bracket or attract clientele that will enable that higher price bracket then the math can be worked out as to whether it's worth it financially. If due to better equipment or software I can work faster and in a better mood then that too will have a direct effect on the business.

    If as you explained using different equipment is the route to an opening of the mind, an ability to explore new avenues then that too will have a direct effect on a business if channelled correctly.

    Guy, don't kill me for doing some speculation. We have an approximate figure of $75K for the 6 or so years that Guy has been playing hopscotch with his equipment. Whether shooting with this equipment over those 6 years rather than using a 1DsII has brought in $75K (actually longer as his current equipment is a current investment but anyway) is a good question. I have little doubt that it has opened up new markets for his business. Those markets will be bringing in money at a level perhaps impossible in 'lower' markets. Then there is the educational aspect of it. Opening new markets and becoming well versed in MF has made Guy a 'name' in the MF world to the extent that he was an instructor at PODAS. That wouldn't have happened if he was still using a 1DsII. I doubt his high end workshops of which this website is just an offshoot would have become possible without his journey through the MF world and keeping up to date within that world. Your wife may not agree Guy but I'll bet that by the time you retire you will have made a nice profit from this investment which would not have happened if you had not sold that 1DsII all those years ago.

    We are however using Marc's concept of MF opening up new markets. If you are doing well in a certain market with your current gear, are unlikely to be able to tap into a higher spending client base within that market based on more expensive gear and are not looking to branch out to newer and higher markets, the math may not work out to the extent of declaring that it is a purely business expense. To use this as a personal example I believe this would be the case for wedding photography and the use of MF for most of the worldwide market.
    Ben, re: opening up new horizons, see my post in this thread because it just happened to me ...

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium...ost385361.html

    I also wouldn't equate wedding work to portrait work ... weddings wouldn't necessarily justify MFD because of the volume and pace ... although I have shot up to a 90% portion of a few weddings with MFD.

    Portrait work has had a long tradition of using both medium format and even view cameras. Stylistically, it just depends on whether one want's to shoot one thing, one way for the rest of their life ... or branch out, evolve and create one's own new horizons.

    The trouble with that is you have to make the investment in time and any necessary gear. Sometimes, opportunity comes knocking, and you scramble to meet it (like your photographing rare documents involvement, and subsequent rocket sled learning curve) ... but most of the time you create your own opportunity and bring the business to you.

    The whole notion of "Business" is an interesting one because in a pure business sense, photographer's that specialize are exercising a personal decision to do what they like as opposed to what makes money. So it isn't pure business, and never was. I sort of evolved in a parallel manner that's an anomaly ... in summer I shoot weddings mostly in a candid manner and during the off-season some portraits, but overwhelmingly do studio product work. I make more $ shooting at my own pace, sometimes in my pajamas , then an entire season of long hours and physically punishing weddings. I like wedding work and am good at it, and I do it for that reason not because it pays well ... if pure business considerations prevailed, I wouldn't shoot another wedding ever again ... at least not in this market.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I was in a gallery displaying some landscape work from a very successful landscape photographer - he has two galleries of his own in Australia and I believe has opened a couple over in the US.

    I think MF digital is creating new expectations and new markets for landscape photography printed in large scale.

    I was rather disturbed to note that my own critical viewing of his work (which ranged from postcard to 2X6meter in size - for the same shot or source file) was being biased towards those landscapes which evidenced the greatest amount of detail...I am ashamed to admit publicly - that I was (in effect) pixel peeping as a primary filter - in my appreciation and ratings of landscapes. It was obvious which shots were made with traditional film and scan and print - versus the elephant gun back shots...

    You really "see' the power of lotsa megapixels when you have the opportunity to see them - in stuff printed humungously large...

    I think the choice between a high end SLR35mm or MFD for regular prints??? - well I am thinking that the advantages of MFD recede dramatically...

    The same shots printed postcard sized 35mm or XPan or MF film versus MF digital - the difference is essentially non existent to my eyes anyway..

    I am guessing for certain high end super duper produced massive budget exercises from the 10 or so luxury cosmetic brands out there or 20 or so haught couture houses - well for sure the MF digi back and ten times that value in lighting / makeup / talent / art direction location etc etc etc

    Maybe pitching for work with movie stars - from my experience with a couple - they have become expert packagers of themselves as a product and brand and know enough about the value of a good photograph - to connect high end MFD with requisite symbols indicating validation for the photographer..

    Well I guess I am just saying that I can imagine all sorts of uses for a MFD camera - for all sorts of different people and circumstance

    however for most parts I am also pretty sure that for most photographers and most photographs and most uses of the photograph - today's pro level 35mm cameras are more than adequate.

    It all depends on where a person sees his or her business model or objective being.


    In order to avoid regret - it is probably a good idea to really know exactly why you want this stuff...

    and then - all you have to blame is yourself for whatever decision you come up with.
    Clear-headed thinking as usual Peter.

    I do think that interest in MFD often springs from using the higher end 35mm DSLRs ... one gets a taste for IQ like that and it's tough going back ... and even tougher standing still.

    MFD is often spoke of in the sense of constraints compared to 35mm DSLRs, with better IQ being the aspect given to MFD. Yet, there is more to it. Some things mentioned get glossed over, because a non-MFD user can't relate to it or can't see it at first. Dynamic range, tonal spread, and subtile color separation that's even visible on an 8X10 print compared to 35mm DSLR files of the same thing. The ability to manipulate MFD files to a much greater degree with less apparent destructive consequences. And esoteric stuff like knock-out outlining which is done a 300% and so on.

    BTW, a photographer needn't be doing high end, massive budget work for pay. Even the most modest client may want to make 6' panels for a trade show that people will be standing 2' from, or crop some tiny portion of a file for a product detail ... you just never know these days. Guy has mentioned this a number of times in past.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    For me and I will touch on what Ben was saying about me is MF has paid off very well. Outside the workshops, PODAS and co owner of this site for clients it really has improved my game as far as my clients know I put a lot of money in this and i am serious about quality and yes Marc is absolutely correct you simply do not always know what clients will do. Not only LARGE but may crop in , take a piece of one image and merge it with another. I get lots of compliments and oohs and holy cows over the sheer volume of the file to work with plus its easier on my clients to deal with this. In the corporate shooting world the unknowns are many on what the heck they will do with your file. I have seen lets shoot this for web turn into lets make this a trade show image than a annual report image. Besides all that anyone shooting MF knows with good processing all the other things that come with the simple ease of working your images which is minimal and the range is there, color and tonal qualities are just unbeaten.

    I know we all bitch about the investment but if your in this to create the best you can than end of the day be it working for commerce or working for hobby reasons it really is worth it in the end. I have seen so many workshop folks grow to stardom with there shooting and i really believe MF has helped them tremendously. I could really care less about the mpx anything starting even at the 22mpx level is in another league over 35mm. I honestly don't think these new Nikon 36 mpx will still not even come to pass MF. Bottom line and we have said this for years with film and it transcends right into digital bigger is better. Or at least i can't find anyone to prove me wrong on it. LOL

    Honestly coming from the beginning of the digital era folks don't realize how far it has grown. It does not get much better than this unless someone all of sudden comes out with a technology to blow our doors off. I don't see it in the near future myself. We are at the very peak of CCD sensors right now. What is improving is the lower end products and only real functionality of the higher end ones.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Clear-headed thinking as usual Peter.

    I do think that interest in MFD often springs from using the higher end 35mm DSLRs ... one gets a taste for IQ like that and it's tough going back ... and even tougher standing still.

    MFD is often spoke of in the sense of constraints compared to 35mm DSLRs, with better IQ being the aspect given to MFD. Yet, there is more to it. Some things mentioned get glossed over, because a non-MFD user can't relate to it or can't see it at first. Dynamic range, tonal spread, and subtile color separation that's even visible on an 8X10 print compared to 35mm DSLR files of the same thing. The ability to manipulate MFD files to a much greater degree with less apparent destructive consequences. And esoteric stuff like knock-out outlining which is done a 300% and so on.

    BTW, a photographer needn't be doing high end, massive budget work for pay. Even the most modest client may want to make 6' panels for a trade show that people will be standing 2' from, or crop some tiny portion of a file for a product detail ... you just never know these days. Guy has mentioned this a number of times in past.

    -Marc
    Totally agree with the other examples of uses for MFD backs above Marc - A good friend of mine does a lot of repro work for galleries - using a multi-shot back - for exactly the reasons you mention above. I guess we can add archival work to the list as well - a lot of uses for high quality large files...

    It is all up to the imagination of the creative person doing the work.

    Also Guy I guess all people who take their work seriously - want to have access to the best tools they can get do the work - it is a natural human thing to do.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    [B]
    I also wouldn't equate wedding work to portrait work ... weddings wouldn't necessarily justify MFD because of the volume and pace ... although I have shot up to a 90% portion of a few weddings with MFD.
    But that isn't the reason I think it's not appropriate, I just don't think that using MF for weddings is going to bring in enough money to justify the investment given that you would need to run a parallel DSLR system. I think that is an important point and worth mentioning for portraiture as well. Are you going to see enough larger prints or make more sales in general to pay the $10K for that MF system? The question could well be yes but it needs to be asked.

    As to broadening one's horizons, no question from me, in this economy you diversify or sink, like a stone . Unless you are one of a select few who define a genre and even they are doing non stop workshops these days.

    As for the MF ability to addict faster than heroin. I'm teaching myself C1 at a higher level, downloaded some Aptus II-7 files to play with f***ing h** and many other exclamations, that's just 28 megapixels, makes my 1Ds3 look like a toy. With the Schneider 80mm the files are horrifically sharp. Horrific especially for that model who could have done with a lot softer lens Boy but it's addictive though. Just wish C1 would play as nicely with my Canon files, does incredible stuff with that Leaf file due to a very strong profile.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Totally agree with the other examples of uses for MFD backs above Marc - A good friend of mine does a lot of repro work for galleries - using a multi-shot back - for exactly the reasons you mention above. I guess we can add archival work to the list as well - a lot of uses for high quality large files...

    It is all up to the imagination of the creative person doing the work.

    Also Guy I guess all people who take their work seriously - want to have access to the best tools they can get do the work - it is a natural human thing to do.
    Absolutely no question about it. People love to use good tools and let's face it we are all a little on the gear slut side of the world. Where MEN it's only natural.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    As a pro one might have to think about it just as business in ROI.

    As a hobby-photographer buyig a camera is not an investment and its more a question if one can afford it and if one wants something.

    And then there are artists.

    And probably combination of the three.

    For me it is reason enough to capture small moments of my (and my families) life in a quality which doesnt let me feel looking at a "digital" image.
    Color, tonality, out of focus transition are main factors here.

    In my case I have found "freedom" with the S2 system. For one it delivers the IQ I like, but it also offers a user interface with a certain simplicity which I have not found in digital SLRs. And - for some reasons there are some "normal" lenses for medium format cameras which seem better than the counterparts for dslrs.
    (Neither the Sony nor the Nikon 50mm/1.4 deliver such a nice bokeh, such good behaviour in regards of vignetting and such a good close focusing distance like the Leica S 70mm/3.5 lens; The Rollei Xenotar 80/2.8 is also one of those lenses I loved, or the Zeiss 110/2.0, the Leica S 120 is exceptional, and I bet many of the Phase lenses are as well)
    And then there is the bigger viewfinder of medium format, beautiful and you really do see what you shoot.
    What else...room to print big in case you get the once in your lifetime shot.

    Many of my friends would say: "sounds nice but is it really worth that much money?" For me yes, for others maybe not.
    One other thing is that we have do compromises so often at work and in life, that it feels good to live one thing with passion and to use what one feels is best.

    I guess a pro has a very different approach, but with competition getting harder and harder I assume it is also important to allways try to be a little bit better then others, and I assume if 2 have the same level of skills then a MF camera could make this little difference in IQ.
    Plus I bet there are still customers who are impressed by gear. (I have experienced this when a photographer with medium format gear photographed our company for a brochure).
    Cheers, Tom

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    But that isn't the reason I think it's not appropriate, I just don't think that using MF for weddings is going to bring in enough money to justify the investment given that you would need to run a parallel DSLR system. I think that is an important point and worth mentioning for portraiture as well. Are you going to see enough larger prints or make more sales in general to pay the $10K for that MF system? The question could well be yes but it needs to be asked.

    As to broadening one's horizons, no question from me, in this economy you diversify or sink, like a stone . Unless you are one of a select few who define a genre and even they are doing non stop workshops these days.

    As for the MF ability to addict faster than heroin. I'm teaching myself C1 at a higher level, downloaded some Aptus II-7 files to play with f***ing h** and many other exclamations, that's just 28 megapixels, makes my 1Ds3 look like a toy. With the Schneider 80mm the files are horrifically sharp. Horrific especially for that model who could have done with a lot softer lens Boy but it's addictive though. Just wish C1 would play as nicely with my Canon files, does incredible stuff with that Leaf file due to a very strong profile.
    Well it does not always equate to ROI and that is a fact. Its expensive and it takes longer to recoup that investment but your second part of your comments the word addictive is a serious understatement. LOL

    BTW I agree it is not the holy grail for everything and sometimes it makes no sense but once you start shooting it the 35mm looks like a toy and I have never heard anyone say otherwise. But 35mm certainly has its place as the tool to use. I don't think anyone would argue that either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    As a pro one might have to think about it just as business in ROI.

    As a hobby-photographer buyig a camera is not an investment and its more a question if one can afford it and if one wants something.

    And then there are artists.

    And probably combination of the three.



    Well said and very true. For me it's a combination the ROI may suck but it is what i want to use and deliver images to my clients and for myself. Sometimes as a Pro you ignore the ROI and do what YOU want. That is my case and after a all these years shooting, i want the best damn thing in my hands now. I have gotten to the point of I earned it and screw the ROI. Maybe sometimes a bad business decision but hell I only am here a short while anyway. LOL

    Geez I just described a gear slut whore. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Well it does not always equate to ROI and that is a fact. Its expensive and it takes longer to recoup that investment but your second part of your comments the word addictive is a serious understatement. LOL
    I think however that it's important to realise where the cut off point is between business and personal requirements that's all. I think the line is being blurred rather too much in the name of enthusiasm and excitement over IQ to judge objectively in many cases.
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post

    Only because of the more recent cost of Medium Format digital has it become an either/or scenario for some shooters. IMO, if you have to sacrifice having a decent 35mm solution to afford MFD, then MFD is too expensive an option. The caveat to that is if you know MFD can do everything you want, or you want to focus entirely on mastering MFD and have the luxury of time to do that.
    I would add if you have to sell your dslr system to purchase your Mf system and you are a professional, what are you using for back-up?

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Answering this question always cracks me up Guy. As I was "Spring Cleaning" my studio area the past 2 weeks, and tossing the equivalent of thousands of $ in obsolete gear and outdated junk, etc. etc. I mused how I'd like all that money back. Yet, the reason I wanted it back ... was to buy more stuff for the studio

    We buy gear because it is part of keeping our interest charged up ... to explore different areas, to expand, or just to have creative options at our finger-tips. Photographers are part artist and part MacGyver during some part of the trek.

    No matter how business savvy a Pro might be, there is a bit of the enthusiast in them to some degree or another, and most would be hard pressed to justify what they have in their gear vault in pure logical terms.

    Working professional or terminally infected enthusiast, photography is what we do.

    Quite frankly, people come to sites like this not only to make an informed decision, but sometimes to gather logical justification for a lustful "Want & Gimme"

    Marc
    I just saw this post and you dead on the money my friend but one other thing you did not mention is for me it has kept me from burning out as well. I have had some serious screw this crap moments in my career and just buying another piece of gear has stopped me from jumping off the building. Yes we are enthusiast as well and we certainly need to be entertained.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I think however that it's important to realise where the cut off point is between business and personal requirements that's all. I think the line is being blurred rather too much in the name of enthusiasm and excitement over IQ to judge objectively in many cases.
    I would certainly not disagree with you here as well. You should be careful no question. I could easily say i have fallen off the deep end and probably a fair statement at times. I had a rough 2 years with my wife being sick and I should have probably pulled back on some things. Certainly is all about balance.

    BTW good points for newbies jumping in MF. I consider myself a little crazy here so maintain your balance and your check book.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Mario,

    There's a P25+ w/H1 on the F/S section. The photographer is Jeff Mosier, one of the best in NYC. He does lots of portraits and weddings in the very demanding NYC market.

    I believe most images on his website are shot with this combo. Very nice!
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    But that isn't the reason I think it's not appropriate, I just don't think that using MF for weddings is going to bring in enough money to justify the investment given that you would need to run a parallel DSLR system. I think that is an important point and worth mentioning for portraiture as well. Are you going to see enough larger prints or make more sales in general to pay the $10K for that MF system? The question could well be yes but it needs to be asked.

    As to broadening one's horizons, no question from me, in this economy you diversify or sink, like a stone . Unless you are one of a select few who define a genre and even they are doing non stop workshops these days.

    As for the MF ability to addict faster than heroin. I'm teaching myself C1 at a higher level, downloaded some Aptus II-7 files to play with f***ing h** and many other exclamations, that's just 28 megapixels, makes my 1Ds3 look like a toy. With the Schneider 80mm the files are horrifically sharp. Horrific especially for that model who could have done with a lot softer lens Boy but it's addictive though. Just wish C1 would play as nicely with my Canon files, does incredible stuff with that Leaf file due to a very strong profile.
    Ben, I've never advocated MFD for weddings especially NOW! If you have it for other application then fine, but not alone IMO.

    Not sure Portraits are the same ... whenever I've sold used MFD myself, it's been to a portrait studio. Same for good lighting. However, times do change, and they have.

    When I entered MFD I had a distinct advantage. I was shooting a lot more commercial work and that was at a time when it was still a bit of transition from film. What happened was you could charge a rental fee or digital capture fee, because otherwise, a client using film had to pay for high res scans @ $40 to $70 a keeper. Do a 3 day catalog shoot with 100 items and they were looking at 25 rolls of film and processing plus $5,500 scanning cost for the 100 keepers. With mark-up that could top $7K.

    A digital capture fee of $1,000 a day, totaling $3K, and instant results looked pretty good in comparison. That paid for the initiation into MFD, and once you get there it is a lot less expensive to keep pace just like with any format.

    -Marc

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    Re: New Member Switching to MF (Intro and Samples)

    What's it like in the commercial world these days though Marc? All I hear about is from my local pro stores in the UK saying that yet another high end studio just went belly up because their clients just took the work in house or pro's saying that they're working 5 times as hard for the same or less pay

    It's not a hugely encouraging world out there but I'm not in the market, what's your take on it?
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

    Website: http://www.timelessjewishart.com

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