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Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

mark1958

Member
The issue is going to be with Hasselblad because if they offer the price break, they are going to take more of the loss on a particular sale. PPR and other dealers may have their hands tied. What happened to those that purchased an H3DII-31 before the price drop?

Well I surely will be on the phone with PPR Atlanta to see what can be done. I bought my H3D kit less than three months ago and have now taken a $10K bath (on paper). I will be appalled if they don't take action to see that something is done.

Obviously there is no longer any point to my sale on the B&S thread. So Guy or Jack, could you please delete those two threads for me.

Thanks

Woody
 

PeterA

Well-known member
BINGO!! - the industry is now moving to the CaNikon model in 35mm land. I am so glad I have already got my complete glass kit for HC and now ( thanks to David K ) I am set with RB in Mamiya. The fun stuff is picking the eyes out of hasselblad/Zeiss glass and using either adaptor in H seris body or now my new mule for F series lenses on 'Phase One ' body. Sadly I think I have just toasted $10K+ like a few other recent H3D11-39 buyers.
The good news is - the 39 megapixel backs are still fantastic 39 megapixel backs! - Always look on teh bright side. :)

My take on Hasselblad's move is that they are staring in teh face of much lower demand because of the stae of the conomy aroud the world and clearing inventory. They have become box sellers now - as will all manufacturers who wish to survive. Customer loyalty has overnight been chucked out the door - but these things happen in tough times.

We are looking at a bunch of closed sstems with marketing fluff overlays about intergrated system benefits ( which everyoen will have) and therfore cant charge premiums for...

I cant wait to see what the caNikon guys come up with..these MFD prices along with Leica's S2 must be rocking their boats. As someone said above - given a choice betwen leica / Zeiss /Fujiblad / Schneider glass or CaNikon - hahahahah you gotta be kidding me.

grrrrrr@ price drops makes me feel stoopid and I dont like that.
 

arashm

Member
wow just loged in to see the exciting news...
BUT I have to say I'm surprised to see the H3DII-31 stay at the promo price!
I thought they would shave it down a bit more.
Given how succesful the promo has been, imagine just how many units they would sell, if they slashed the price to $15k or as low as $12k...
as crazy as it sounds would you believe a year ago that you could buy a H3DII-39 for $22K (I think)!!!!!!
I'm excited to see what the Phase pricing is going to be for the Phamiya and the P30+
Now I have a lot of reading to catch up on :)
am
 

David K

Workshop Member
Don't know how many of you are old enough to remember when Disney videos were selling for around $79 each (probably about 20-25 years ago) and I bought a half-dozen or so for my daughter's birthday about a week before they dropped by about $60 per video. The point being (if there is one) is that the thought of it still pisses me off two decades later. Despite the pressures of the economy these manufacturers really need to do something for those that bought before this precipitous price drop or risk having some seriously unhappy customers.
 

arashm

Member
David I see your point...
I guess it's a bit of a tight rope
I'm just thinking of everyone (like myself) who wants MF but it's just that bit too much to spring for
but yes I too would not like being in that position.
cheers
am
 

woodyspedden

New member
Don't know how many of you are old enough to remember when Disney videos were selling for around $79 each (probably about 20-25 years ago) and I bought a half-dozen or so for my daughter's birthday about a week before they dropped by about $60 per video. The point being (if there is one) is that the thought of it still pisses me off two decades later. Despite the pressures of the economy these manufacturers really need to do something for those that bought before this precipitous price drop or risk having some seriously unhappy customers.
David

Being one of those caught in this vacuum (bought my H3DII39 just three months ago at over $10K more) I am really pissed off and then some. But I don't think that Hassy is happy about doing this either. The scary thing is that I believe there is no alternative but to get prices down to compete each and every day. There is simply not enough differentiation to get people to stick with a particular brand. So they will lose some customers and probably gain a few as well. Sad.

After this period will come a sort of stabilization time. Frankly, right now if you produced a spreadsheet showing features as a function of camera manufacture, unless you were one of us on the forum who drools over each and every news release you would not know the manufacturers in the sheet. The sensors are either Kodak or Dalsa and much of the body work, particularly in the world of Rollei, Leaf, Sinar are basically the same. If I were a marketing guru in this world I would have no idea how to position myself without resorting to hyperbole or outright lying!

What is my point? It is that without true technical differentiation you are relegated to a price war. At least Leica had the foresight to get on board with a system that straddles the world of 35mm DSLR and MFDB so has a fairly unique position from a technical marketing perspective. But, and this is a big but, they will be scrutinized to a fare thee well from a price position. Their sensor size, resolution et al will not stand up to a hugh price premium. We (at least me) will pay somewhat of a premium for the quality of their glass but the overall system cost must come in at equal or less than other more technically capable systems from Sinar, Hassy, Phase etc.

The market is squeezing believe you me!. I think this next two years or so may be of historical significance similar to when the Japanese went full tilt with regard to DSLRl's while the Germans i.e. Leica stuck with the rangefinder model.

For once, I feel the winners are going to be us, the shooters, and not the manufacturers. (Though I really want them to win as well!)

JMHO

Woody
 

David K

Workshop Member
Woody,

I was thinking of your situation when I posted. I doubt there's a refund in the cards for you or anyone else in your position but there are still things that could be done to ease the pain. Remember the 30% off coupon that Leica issued to early adopters of the M8. How about Apple's (albeit paltry) $100 coupon for early iPhone buyers. Something along these lines is, IMHO, warranted and would not impose a significant financial hardship on the manufacturers. Not picking on Hassy here, just using your situation as an example.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Read the release from Hasselblad ( if you wish to laugh or cry - depending on how black your sense of humour can get) - they suggest that future prices are 'lower' and therefore when people 'upgrade' they can keep their current camera as a 'back-up' - these guys are on drugs - the spin doctors are running everything everywhere in every industry these days. A nice way of saying to everyone - SUCKED IN YOU IDIOTS

Basically they are admitting that they have run out of marketing spin , yes there is no differentiation, and yes they have all been taking the pizz out of anyone STUPID enough to buy at previous prices..

the sad thing is that they are basically saying - every year we are going to charge a premium for the new toy and then later we will smack the price down sort of till the next release is out and then really dump the remainder..

it is a very very bad business model...for premium brands or expensive toys.they will regret this ...

Really underlines to me the silliness of the so called full frame 645 chips thathave just come out - good luck selling these.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
It's a double-edged sword for sure: Say screw you back to them by not buying the new model at the release price, and the company goes out of business from lack of sales.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Interesting responses. :talk028:

We have been whining about MF pricing forever. Now we are whining about getting what we wanted.

These price adjustments are nothing new or exclusive ... and were bound to happen. Sinar has some nice new pricing package offerings, Phase One does also.

If you look at these cameras or any other computer related technology as part of your financial portfolio you are smoking the drapes.

They are primarily tools to make images ... and in the case of a vast majority of MFD users they are a tool to make a living.

The "Wants & Gimmes" mentality of being a gear head comes with a whopper of a financial penalty.

If you are not satisfied with what you have, maybe you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. :lecture::ROTFL:

If you didn't think what you now have wasn't going to be eclipsed pretty quickly then you must have been living in a closet.:rolleyes:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I don't know how it works in the US but could that $10K drop not be claimed against taxes for a business?
That's an accountant question Ben. I already depreciate my gear.

One thing that WAS mentioned on another forum is to lower the insurance value of existing gear to reflect replacement pricing.
 

PeterA

Well-known member
A price signal of 40% is a pretty big signal in competitive markets - this is a declaration of war amongst the manufacturers - and recent purchasers are just suffering some collateral damage. Sure we will benefit from lower pricing for teh next purchase...ahem assuming there will be a next purchase .:ROTFL::ROTFL:
 

robmac

Well-known member
The sad reality is that it's also only to get worse - gradual declines with periodic step-wise drops. One of those drops coming when when Canikon introduce their > high MP 35mm DSLRs for 1/3-1/2 the price of the S2. Leica was the first to announce, but they won't be the last.

There is only so much you can do with micro-lenses, gapless tech, low-current amplifiers, etc., re: ISO performance on uber-dense sensors before you have to up the sensor size to give yourself more headroom. Yes, it will be a major PITA with new lens lines, etc, and no, I have no idea how Canon will clean up it's lens QC and performance to do justice to a 40MP possibly AA-less 24x48 sensor, but...

ISO issues aside, the DSLR heavyweights also NEED to have a product line that will keep pros in their high-end bodies as MF prices drop. They need to have a premium pro DSLR line with a price/performance curve that can justify itself in the midst of ongoing MFDB price plunges.

I can see the marketing material now: $8-10K or so for 30x48mm (pick a size..), 35-40MP, clean to ISO 3200, fast multi-point AF, weather sealed, (no AA filter??????), lenses at a small premium to existing L/G units, LV, 1080P video (argh), maybe older lenses with adapters in cropped/masked mode, etc, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if > 35mm became the 'new' Canon 1 series line (to pick just one manufacturer).

We're starting to get what we wanted - unfortunately.
 
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woodyspedden

New member
Interesting responses. :talk028:

We have been whining about MF pricing forever. Now we are whining about getting what we wanted.

These price adjustments are nothing new or exclusive ... and were bound to happen. Sinar has some nice new pricing package offerings, Phase One does also.

If you look at these cameras or any other computer related technology as part of your financial portfolio you are smoking the drapes.

They are primarily tools to make images ... and in the case of a vast majority of MFD users they are a tool to make a living.

The "Wants & Gimmes" mentality of being a gear head comes with a whopper of a financial penalty.

If you are not satisfied with what you have, maybe you shouldn't have bought it in the first place. :lecture::ROTFL:

If you didn't think what you now have wasn't going to be eclipsed pretty quickly then you must have been living in a closet.:rolleyes:
Marc

I think you are missing the point (at least my point). I am simply saying that if a massive price drop (which we are all glad for) is in the offing then the manufacturer has an obligation to current buyers. Perhaps, as in my case, three months is too long a time for retroactive pricing. But how about those folks who were buying an H3DII-39 two weeks before Photokina? They have every right to be inflamed as Hassy obviously knew at that point of their impending price cut. In my opinion buyers who purchased within a specific time window from Photokina should be given the new price. Perhaps within a longer window a discount on a lens or something like that as posted earlier. The point is that without some program of respect for their customers they will simply lose them. The "middle finger in the air" approach just doesn't get it.

For those like you who bought into the H3D-39 when it was first introduced I don't see that the manufacturer owes anything. Early adopters, in any technology, always pay a premium for having the advantage of new tools at the outset.

Anyway, just wanted to clear up my position on the matter as I see it.

Woody
 

robmac

Well-known member
One thing I hadn't thought to consider is if the Nikon > 35mm MX-Format chatter may have some validity to it - and maybe prompted a couple of meetings at Hasselblad....

Woody - feel for you. As much as business is business, that's a serious chunk of $$$ to watch vanish. If Hassy took the high road and offered something quietly via dealers it would go a long way re: customer retention. Something like this can put a bad taste in your mouth for a LONG time.

As you suggest a diminishing rate of refund/credit would (I think) be unheralded and get a LOT of industry air-time and be a real marketing coup on Hassy's part. ANY comfort of being partially future-proofed in a market that is now starting to follow the eat-your-young DSLR market would go a long way with potential buyers - all other things being equal.

That said, seeing as how it was not announced with the cuts, it may come down to how gracious/creative you dealer wants to be - despite the fact they likely (one would hope) had no idea it was coming that far in advance.
 
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robmac

Well-known member
Jim - I'm only allowed into religious structures for weddings and funerals, and only then when accompanied by an adult. Care to elaborate?
 

jlm

Workshop Member
basically, the vineyard owner hired workers to start in the morning for 3 drachmas. as the day progressed, he found he needed another worker who also wanted 3 drachmas. of course the first workers complained, thinking they should then be paid more. the lesson was you get what you agreed to.

I used to ride to high school with a car owner who pulled this cost shift when adding a new rider...and he quoted the drachma story to us.
 

Ben Rubinstein

Active member
An interesting development of the inevitable price wars and the fact that the MFDB manufacturers have axed their upgrade policies used to keep backs off the cheap 2nd hand market is that we will start seeing very cheap MFDB's on the 2nd hand market pretty soon. Heck, an Aptus 17 gives 17 megabytes with a 645 ratio and can easily be fitted to a dirt cheap previous generation Med format camera with incredible glass, no doubt soon for less than a 1Ds mkIII. If as many shooters will be buying 5D mkII's as the commercial photographer boards seem to suggest, they'll hardly be able to give them away soon enough.

I do like the idea of being able to buy a mamiya 645 and a couple of manual focus lenses, I shot some good stuff with a 645 Super, but to be honest these days I'm either shooting long exposures or at higher iso's and often both. Might be worth it for studio based photographers with clients who can tell the difference between a 16 megapixel back and a 5D mkII, those very few that can probably be counted on a single hand these days that is from what I hear...

That said, for a wedding photographer like myself, a 17 megapixel back on an AFD2 might be just the ticket for portraits and family groups. Will probably be about $4000 soon enough and I would prefer it to a 5D mkII, if only for the better 'look' for portraiture than the typical 35mm DSLR tonality, etc.
 
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