Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

[dougpeterson]

Mamiya is developing some of these which are supposed to be here soon, and the Leica S is supposed to also have a few leaf shutter lenses. Unfortunately, the Contax 645 was discontinued before any were offered from Kyocera/Zeiss.

My personal issue with that, is that I need all of my lenses to be Leaf Shutter type. I cannot be confined to a few focal lengths in my work.

I think this hits the nail on the head. If your day-to-day shooting is in situations where you need leaf shutter lenses (mostly outdoor fashion/portrait with flash) then your best option is an all-leaf-shutter-lens system. Most photographers don't fall in this camp though and only need fast flash sync on occasion.

This is where economics come in. Leaf shutter lenses are inherently more expensive because each of them contain a shutter mechanism. So if you only use fast flash sync on occasion then you're paying an unneccessary premium for those lenses.

A system like the Mamiya and the Leica S2 which will imminently have the benefits of focal plane shutters and leaf shutter lenses is just icing on the cake.

I'm attaching a shot from the lighting seminar below which illustrates a need for fast shutter sync. The exposure was 1/500th @ f/16 at ISO 50. If this was a focal plane system then I would have needed to shoot through a 2-stop ND filter and turned the flash up 2 full stops. Otherwise the ratio of ambient to flash would have moved 2 stops in favor of ambient and I would have lost the modeling shadows on the model and the sky would have been nearly white.

As a final note, some advanced SLR flashes like the Canon 580EXII can put out a high-frequency pulse of light rather than a single "pop" allowing focal plane shutters to sync at faster than their native flash sync speed. Not a full solution of course, but a useful aid for those who only very rarely need fast flash sync.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

 

[LJL]

Doug,
This shot very nicely illustrates the use of leaf shutter in ambient light conditions with flash. Not sure one could get this shot with a focal plane shutter arrangement. Besides the proper lighting balance, there would also be the issue of "freezing" the waves. Some may say that the flash would accomplish that, but probably not as well as the shutter speed control in this setting. Very nicely done. (Oh, and I completely agree with your comments about the the HSS on the DSLR flash.....I use it now, but it is severely limiting. Glad to have that option, but just not the same control and overall performance one can get with the MF rigs and doing this kind of lighting.)

Marc,
Thank you (and Doug, and others) for very clearly describing the effects and uses of the leaf shutter versus focal plane shutter with flash and ambient. This is what I was feebly trying to describe to Carsten in another thread, and you guys have laid it all out beautifully in this tread instead. Great stuff.

LJ

 

[gogopix]

I do like the Contax. I also like the Rollei 6008AF, and might even consider a newer Hasselblad V. I just don't know enough about them to make intelligent decisions and there are few enough of the first two around to make research difficult. This is surely a FAQ question, so if there is a body of knowledge anywhere, or a book I can buy to read up on this, just point me in the right direction.

Why did you choose the Contax, Victor? What is the value of a Contax 645+80/2 in great shape? Is the waist-level finder easy to find? The prism finder? Which is better to have, or perhaps both, or is it just preference? A million questions

Dear Carsten
I bought the Contax 645 when it first came out because I heard that Kodak had a pro back for it and the glass wass as good as any Zeiss design (made by Kyocera to Carl Zeis spec and QA)
and it was AF (my 'lazy old days when I thought I was getting too old for Manual Focus... what did I know LOL)

If you look at recent Contax deciders it isn't any one thing; it is the system-it works, trouble free for six years in my case

I get to use all the Hasey V glass, with AE and focus confirmation! all just there for the using.

Hassey lacked AF, not true now
Mamyia had 'what some consider glass not quite as good a Zeiss but getting better" I have seen great images here, but in one comparison of a Mamyia lens to the same shot with Leica M, the M had more 'dimensionality' 3-d or whatever. But I just don't want to get into another situation where the mamyia crowd get their underwear all bunched-let's just say is is a style preference for Zeiss designed glass.

Rollei/H6y really intrigued me, but I use dominance thinking. Change only if there is a significant improvement.

For me the Contax just fits, and I get better shots than with anything else. Why? I don't think about equipment when I use it.

You either care about the 'discontinued, hard repair, no improvement etc etc ' situation or not. I don't.

And the backs keep on coming for it....

Would I buy it if I were just making a decision now? Who knows-that's not my situation. However, all those who have bought Contax 645 recently seem delighted.

and of course, contrary to some suggestions I have no interest in supporting Contax 645 prices. I will likely pass it all down. If I don't use it it will become part of my collection

best regards and good luck with your decision

Victor

PS Kits should be 1000-2000 euro depending on condition and desparation of seller.
I have WLF and hardly use (but NOT selling)

I have ALL the lenses and accessories (even the auto bellows), including the flash, and use almost all (except the battery holder. Haven't needed since the body doesnt draw as much without the film advance

 

[woodyspedden]

I think this hits the nail on the head. If your day-to-day shooting is in situations where you need leaf shutter lenses (mostly outdoor fashion/portrait with flash) then your best option is an all-leaf-shutter-lens system. Most photographers don't fall in this camp though and only need fast flash sync on occasion.

This is where economics come in. Leaf shutter lenses are inherently more expensive because each of them contain a shutter mechanism. So if you only use fast flash sync on occasion then you're paying an unneccessary premium for those lenses.

A system like the Mamiya and the Leica S2 which will imminently have the benefits of focal plane shutters and leaf shutter lenses is just icing on the cake.





I'm attaching a shot from the lighting seminar below which illustrates a need for fast shutter sync. The exposure was 1/500th @ f/16 at ISO 50. If this was a focal plane system then I would have needed to shoot through a 2-stop ND filter and turned the flash up 2 full stops. Otherwise the ratio of ambient to flash would have moved 2 stops in favor of ambient and I would have lost the modeling shadows on the model and the sky would have been nearly white.

As a final note, some advanced SLR flashes like the Canon 580EXII can put out a high-frequency pulse of light rather than a single "pop" allowing focal plane shutters to sync at faster than their native flash sync speed. Not a full solution of course, but a useful aid for those who only very rarely need fast flash sync.

Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
Personal Portfolio

doug

Very good stuff! Wish I had decided on the Mamiya/Phase world if only to be connected to guys like you who can really guide us newbies to better results.

Oh Well, life moves on and new systems get bought and sold. And with the rate of technology churn that process is faster than ever!

Regardless, thanks for the information and guidance. Seems like Capture integration is a real resource for 21st century image making. Congratulations

Woody Spedden

 

[David K]

Woody,
You bring that Hassy of yours to Florida when you visit and if you like I'll set up a bikini beach shoot for us like the one you missed.
Doug,
Nice work with those images... from capture right thru post, they look excellent.

 

[fotografz]

doug

Very good stuff! Wish I had decided on the Mamiya/Phase world if only to be connected to guys like you who can really guide us newbies to better results.

Oh Well, life moves on and new systems get bought and sold. And with the rate of technology churn that process is faster than ever!

Regardless, thanks for the information and guidance. Seems like Capture integration is a real resource for 21st century image making. Congratulations

Woody Spedden

WARNING! :lecture: WARNING!

Woody, IMO, you are getting all wrapped up in internet babble which is making you feel like your choice was inferior. Horse shit. The joy is in the using, not in the talking about using. It's not in how much you paid, and what it's value is now like some financial investment ... its value is in the using. It's a CREATIVE tool. If you need some inspiration from stuff shot with a Hasselblad H camera I'll point you to a few top shot folks that do not have time to waste on the internet talking about shooting, because they are busy actually shooting.

Sorry, but the place to look is not to camera salesmen, or technical gurus ... look to the leaders of the photographic world regardless of the tools used. I wasn't inspired to decisive moment work by a Leica salesman, but by all the wonderful shooters that just happened to use a Leica 35mm. My home is graced by prints from the immortals like Henri Cartier Bresson, Andre Kerteze, Robert Doesneau, Arnold Newman, Bill Brandt, etc. ... NOT product photos of cameras.

If you want to get more creative, take one of Irakly Shandize's creative seminars. It won't matter what gun you bring to that gun fight, you WILL emerge from it with a whole new perspective. He's rocked the world of many an established photographer let alone Newbies that have come in contact with him. This freaking' guy is a genius ... trust me on this ... I've hired the best in the world to shoot for me and this guy is up and coming, and moving right up there with them. Mark my words on this. I've never seen a younger photographer move up as fast as this guy is.

On shutter types:

Frankly, for 90% of any shots either type camera will do the job. The times I've run out of shutter speed with the H has been few and far between. In fact it's been rare even with the 503CW, (ISO 50 does help.) And when I shot a Contax 645 or Mamiya 645, I rarely couldn't overcome the slower sync speed. However, when you do hit either technical wall, lowering the light input is relatively easy, upping the sync speed is not : -)

I will also disagree that a vast majority of shooters use focal plane shutter MF cameras ... NO ONE has made as many cameras as the ubiquitous 500 series Hasselblad and Rollei Leaf Shutter cameras ... now followed by the H system and Hy6. Strange as it may seem, in the hundreds and hundreds of shoots I've contracted for as a Creative Director, only 2 were shot with a Focal Plane camera (a Contax 645 for an editorial assignment, and a minor corporate job done on film with a 203FE.)

Discussing tech stuff is cool as long as it doesn't undermine one's confidence and divert one's attention away from what this stuff is made for ... personal creative expression. :thumbs:

Use it. That truth will set you free.

(Sorry for the diatribe, but once a Creative Director, always a Creative Director) :ROTFL:

 

[gogopix]

With improving glass, CS and good integration with Phase backs, THe Mamyia/ Phase One cameras are going to give Hassey a run for the money!

Really good examples of the use of higher flash synch.

But as fotograf says, it needs a FULL LINE of lenses. Can't be partway.

Victor

 

[woodyspedden]

WARNING! :lecture: WARNING!

Woody, IMO, you are getting all wrapped up in internet babble which is making you feel like your choice was inferior. Horse shit. The joy is in the using, not in the talking about using. It's not in how much you paid, and what it's value is now like some financial investment ... its value is in the using. It's a CREATIVE tool. If you need some inspiration from stuff shot with a Hasselblad H camera I'll point you to a few top shot folks that do not have time to waste on the internet talking about shooting, because they are busy actually shooting.

Sorry, but the place to look is not to camera salesmen, or technical gurus ... look to the leaders of the photographic world regardless of the tools used. I wasn't inspired to decisive moment work by a Leica salesman, but by all the wonderful shooters that just happened to use a Leica 35mm. My home is graced by prints from the immortals like Henri Cartier Bresson, Andre Kerteze, Robert Doesneau, Arnold Newman, Bill Brandt, etc. ... NOT product photos of cameras.

If you want to get more creative, take one of Irakly Shandize's creative seminars. It won't matter what gun you bring to that gun fight, you WILL emerge from it with a whole new perspective. He's rocked the world of many an established photographer let alone Newbies that have come in contact with him. This freaking' guy is a genius ... trust me on this ... I've hired the best in the world to shoot for me and this guy is up and coming, and moving right up there with them. Mark my words on this. I've never seen a younger photographer move up as fast as this guy is.

On shutter types:

Frankly, for 90% of any shots either type camera will do the job. The times I've run out of shutter speed with the H has been few and far between. In fact it's been rare even with the 503CW, (ISO 50 does help.) And when I shot a Contax 645 or Mamiya 645, I rarely couldn't overcome the slower sync speed. However, when you do hit either technical wall, lowering the light input is relatively easy, upping the sync speed is not : -)

I will also disagree that a vast majority of shooters use focal plane shutter MF cameras ... NO ONE has made as many cameras as the ubiquitous 500 series Hasselblad and Rollei Leaf Shutter cameras ... now followed by the H system and Hy6. Strange as it may seem, in the hundreds and hundreds of shoots I've contracted for as a Creative Director, only 2 were shot with a Focal Plane camera (a Contax 645 for an editorial assignment, and a minor corporate job done on film with a 203FE.)

Discussing tech stuff is cool as long as it doesn't undermine one's confidence and divert one's attention away from what this stuff is made for ... personal creative expression. :thumbs:

Use it. That truth will set you free.

(Sorry for the diatribe, but once a Creative Director, always a Creative Director) :ROTFL:

Marc

Thanks for the slap in the face...........Ouch!!! I needed that.

Actually my reply to Doug was more about the relationship with a dealer than about the camera. I have not been disappointed in any way with my Hassy gear and am and (thumb willing) will continue to be using it. But when Steve Hendrix left PPR it left me with no dealer relationship to speak of. So my comment, "wish I had bought the Phase/Mamiya should really be taken to mean "wish I had bought my gear from Capture Integration. Steve was really great to deal with but once gone I realized he was PPR! I believe you have said a number of times on these threads how important your dealer choice is.........perhaps more so than the gear itself. I now have come to learn what that means. No more no less.

Best

Woody

 

[David K]

Thanks for the slap in the face...........Ouch!!! I needed that.

Actually my reply to Doug was more about the relationship with a dealer than about the camera.

Woody,
You are too funny... that line had me laughing out loud. I can relate to your feelings about Steve Hendrix as i hold him in the highest regard. As far as having a dealer relationship... guys our age wouldn't survive a relationship with Lance down in South Beach More seriously though, I stay in touch with both Lance and Doug despite the fact that I use a competing brand. We all make a lot of jokes at Lance's expense (and he takes it well) but the truth is that he made a sincere and extended effort to help me with my difficulties when I was at the San Juan workshop even though I wasn't shooting a Phase back.

 

[lance_schad]

Dave,
I have slowed down a bit since I moved down here, just ask Chris and Ray how lame I was at the lighting workshop when they were down here visiting SOBE.
Anyway as Dave mentioned we always make ourselves available to assist when we can.
L