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Thread: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

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    Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Just received an e-mail from Hasselblad, and then spoke with a dealer ...

    Up to 40% drop in pricing.

    Samples of unofficial, yet to be double-double checked pricing:

    H3D-II/39 $22K

    CF-II/39 (back for multi-camera use) $20K

    New H3D-II/60 back priced around what the 39 used to be.

    No more trade up program, just price cuts on new.

    H3D-II/31 remains promo price from now on.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Terrific news Marc. Now it's the rest of the industry turn.
    Eduardo

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    I guess any price reduction is good news... but it does concern me to see prices dropping like rocks. Maybe saying something about the realities of our global economic situation.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    I think the main reason is the MF competition.... Competition is good..

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    I guess any price reduction is good news... but it does concern me to see prices dropping like rocks. Maybe saying something about the realities of our global economic situation.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Second reason is the new dslr's announced.
    Eduardo
    Quote Originally Posted by mark1958 View Post
    I think the main reason is the MF competition.... Competition is good..

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Marc,
    This is interesting. So, for $22K, one could get Hasselblad's top end H3DII body, the mated 39MP back and the 80/2.8 lens.....(final pricing checks and double checks need to be accounted for yet). That starts to really put some heat on the yet unreleased S2, suggesting it needs to come in at or below that to be competitive. That $18K "kit" price is starting to look more "real" for the S2, but lower would be even better.

    All that being said, getting the 39MP Hassy would be a very good deal, and still afford the even higher resolution option by just getting the 60MP back if needed later.

    So who is next? Sinar? How about some "real deals" on your kit? Leaf? Any chance of offering soom decent pricing on that new rotating sensor back and mating it to a Phase or Sinar body? This could get interesting.

    LJ

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    I guess any price reduction is good news... but it does concern me to see prices dropping like rocks. Maybe saying something about the realities of our global economic situation.
    Or Hassy has some financial issues
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Or Hassy has some financial issues
    related to what? excess inventory they need to dump to up cashflow?

    LJ

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    LJ,

    Sinar has already dropped their prices on existing kits and priced the recently announced ones pretty competitively.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    LJ,

    Sinar has already dropped their prices on existing kits and priced the recently announced ones pretty competitively.
    David,
    I have been watching them also, and agree, things are getting more competitive. I still think what they offer is very nice, but also still a bit pricey and I still also worry about support. Trust me, I really like the Hy6, and the new backs seem to be hitting their marks. There still are lots of accessories that are not terribly inexpensive once you start adding things up.

    LJ

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Also could be a new strategy similar to the inkjet model (give away the printer to get the ink/media sales, only that there are no third party accessories available!).
    Sell the H3 platform a low price, then sell the lenses at a high price with no choice but to pay because there is no third party support on the H3 platform for lenses.

    I just saw the 35-90 price , $7k!

    So in the future can it be expected that the Hasselblad H lens prices will increase?

    L
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Sell the H3 platform a low price, then sell the lenses at a high price with no choice but to pay because there is no third party support on the H3 platform for lenses.

    I just saw the 35-90 price , $7k!
    Wow, two 5D II's strapped to the front of the H3!

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    I think all camera manufacturers want to get folks to buy their cameras to get them locked into a system. Canon and Nikon believe if you buy their DSLRs and then start buying their lenses-- they will be locked into their system moving forward. How many people stick with a platform because they do not want to go through the cost and hassle of selling all their lenses. I mean people do jump but once someone is committed more difficult to change over.

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Also could be a new strategy similar to the inkjet model (give away the printer to get the ink/media sales, only that there are no third party accessories available!).
    Sell the H3 platform a low price, then sell the lenses at a high price with no choice but to pay because there is no third party support on the H3 platform for lenses.

    I just saw the 35-90 price , $7k!

    So in the future can it be expected that the Hasselblad H lens prices will increase?

    L

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    As the step-wise price/performance curve on high-end DSLRs shift hits a downward step, so must the price/performance curves for the MF players. It will also only get worse/better (depending if you're a buyer or seller I guess) - especially if we see the S2 MF form factor copied by other players, which we undoubtedly will.

    I think the pricing paradigm, model/sensor churn (and feature-creep) that has become the hallmark of the DSLR world has now moved upstream. Never thought I'd see the day where a clean (I assume) H3D (Mk1)-39 kit for < $13,000 like has been listed on FM would sit there for as long as it has collecting drool.

    As for the lenses (ah, wait until the S lenses are priced...), look at Canon, Nikon, etc. The lens prices stay relatively stable as the body prices 'plunge' with every cycle - but you do, sometimes, maybe, well, occasionally, get more lens performance for the same $$ (more so with the new Nikon WA zoom offerings). No reason Hassy or anyone else need be any different.

    As Mark states above - give'em a little taste, watch their eyes go wide and their wallets come out and suddenly they need a REALLY compelling case to get them to eat the $$$s in glass, etc to pull a switch.

    That said, such downward price spikes are also a good way to remind your competitors who one of the big elephants in the room is (and who isn't) -- if you have the pockets for it.
    Last edited by robmac; 24th September 2008 at 12:10.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    I'm not sufficiently in the loop to have a clue what the thinking is behind these price drops. I doubt any of the players think they can buy market share based on price alone. I have little doubt that any drop by Hassey will be followed, in short order, by price drops from the other back makers. Meantime... if I bought one of these last week/month at the old prices I'd certainly be on the phone right now.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by LJL View Post
    related to what? excess inventory they need to dump to up cashflow?

    LJ
    Most common financial issue would be coming from the "credit crunch" . Maturing loans are not being renewed or the terms maybe be as good. This puts a premium on raising cash ...quickly.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    As I understand it, Hasselblad is doing very well, and the H3D-II/31 promo was quite a success.

    Volume does count. Plus the R&D for the H/C lenses and the platform has to have been paid back by now ... most continuous improvement aspects are now accomplished with firmware and software.

    The lens analogy is probably correct ... look at the $5000. price tag on the Mamiya 28 ... now $4,100. Best to wait for bundle promos ... that's how I got my H/C 28 for $1,200 ... and the very expensive Zeiss 40IF for almost free.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Well I surely will be on the phone with PPR Atlanta to see what can be done. I bought my H3D kit less than three months ago and have now taken a $10K bath (on paper). I will be appalled if they don't take action to see that something is done.

    Obviously there is no longer any point to my sale on the B&S thread. So Guy or Jack, could you please delete those two threads for me.

    Thanks

    Woody

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcunite View Post
    Wow, two 5D II's strapped to the front of the H3!
    Because Hasselblad is a big fan of opening their systems to third party accessories...

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Well I surely will be on the phone with PPR Atlanta to see what can be done. I bought my H3D kit less than three months ago and have now taken a $10K bath (on paper). I will be appalled if they don't take action to see that something is done.

    Obviously there is no longer any point to my sale on the B&S thread. So Guy or Jack, could you please delete those two threads for me.

    Thanks

    Woody
    Sure will Woody . This does suck for folks like you that bought recently
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    The issue is going to be with Hasselblad because if they offer the price break, they are going to take more of the loss on a particular sale. PPR and other dealers may have their hands tied. What happened to those that purchased an H3DII-31 before the price drop?

    Quote Originally Posted by woodyspedden View Post
    Well I surely will be on the phone with PPR Atlanta to see what can be done. I bought my H3D kit less than three months ago and have now taken a $10K bath (on paper). I will be appalled if they don't take action to see that something is done.

    Obviously there is no longer any point to my sale on the B&S thread. So Guy or Jack, could you please delete those two threads for me.

    Thanks

    Woody

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    BINGO!! - the industry is now moving to the CaNikon model in 35mm land. I am so glad I have already got my complete glass kit for HC and now ( thanks to David K ) I am set with RB in Mamiya. The fun stuff is picking the eyes out of hasselblad/Zeiss glass and using either adaptor in H seris body or now my new mule for F series lenses on 'Phase One ' body. Sadly I think I have just toasted $10K+ like a few other recent H3D11-39 buyers.
    The good news is - the 39 megapixel backs are still fantastic 39 megapixel backs! - Always look on teh bright side.

    My take on Hasselblad's move is that they are staring in teh face of much lower demand because of the stae of the conomy aroud the world and clearing inventory. They have become box sellers now - as will all manufacturers who wish to survive. Customer loyalty has overnight been chucked out the door - but these things happen in tough times.

    We are looking at a bunch of closed sstems with marketing fluff overlays about intergrated system benefits ( which everyoen will have) and therfore cant charge premiums for...

    I cant wait to see what the caNikon guys come up with..these MFD prices along with Leica's S2 must be rocking their boats. As someone said above - given a choice betwen leica / Zeiss /Fujiblad / Schneider glass or CaNikon - hahahahah you gotta be kidding me.

    [email protected] price drops makes me feel stoopid and I dont like that.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    wow just loged in to see the exciting news...
    BUT I have to say I'm surprised to see the H3DII-31 stay at the promo price!
    I thought they would shave it down a bit more.
    Given how succesful the promo has been, imagine just how many units they would sell, if they slashed the price to $15k or as low as $12k...
    as crazy as it sounds would you believe a year ago that you could buy a H3DII-39 for $22K (I think)!!!!!!
    I'm excited to see what the Phase pricing is going to be for the Phamiya and the P30+
    Now I have a lot of reading to catch up on
    am

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Don't know how many of you are old enough to remember when Disney videos were selling for around $79 each (probably about 20-25 years ago) and I bought a half-dozen or so for my daughter's birthday about a week before they dropped by about $60 per video. The point being (if there is one) is that the thought of it still pisses me off two decades later. Despite the pressures of the economy these manufacturers really need to do something for those that bought before this precipitous price drop or risk having some seriously unhappy customers.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    David I see your point...
    I guess it's a bit of a tight rope
    I'm just thinking of everyone (like myself) who wants MF but it's just that bit too much to spring for
    but yes I too would not like being in that position.
    cheers
    am

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by David K View Post
    Don't know how many of you are old enough to remember when Disney videos were selling for around $79 each (probably about 20-25 years ago) and I bought a half-dozen or so for my daughter's birthday about a week before they dropped by about $60 per video. The point being (if there is one) is that the thought of it still pisses me off two decades later. Despite the pressures of the economy these manufacturers really need to do something for those that bought before this precipitous price drop or risk having some seriously unhappy customers.
    David

    Being one of those caught in this vacuum (bought my H3DII39 just three months ago at over $10K more) I am really pissed off and then some. But I don't think that Hassy is happy about doing this either. The scary thing is that I believe there is no alternative but to get prices down to compete each and every day. There is simply not enough differentiation to get people to stick with a particular brand. So they will lose some customers and probably gain a few as well. Sad.

    After this period will come a sort of stabilization time. Frankly, right now if you produced a spreadsheet showing features as a function of camera manufacture, unless you were one of us on the forum who drools over each and every news release you would not know the manufacturers in the sheet. The sensors are either Kodak or Dalsa and much of the body work, particularly in the world of Rollei, Leaf, Sinar are basically the same. If I were a marketing guru in this world I would have no idea how to position myself without resorting to hyperbole or outright lying!

    What is my point? It is that without true technical differentiation you are relegated to a price war. At least Leica had the foresight to get on board with a system that straddles the world of 35mm DSLR and MFDB so has a fairly unique position from a technical marketing perspective. But, and this is a big but, they will be scrutinized to a fare thee well from a price position. Their sensor size, resolution et al will not stand up to a hugh price premium. We (at least me) will pay somewhat of a premium for the quality of their glass but the overall system cost must come in at equal or less than other more technically capable systems from Sinar, Hassy, Phase etc.

    The market is squeezing believe you me!. I think this next two years or so may be of historical significance similar to when the Japanese went full tilt with regard to DSLRl's while the Germans i.e. Leica stuck with the rangefinder model.

    For once, I feel the winners are going to be us, the shooters, and not the manufacturers. (Though I really want them to win as well!)

    JMHO

    Woody

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Woody,

    I was thinking of your situation when I posted. I doubt there's a refund in the cards for you or anyone else in your position but there are still things that could be done to ease the pain. Remember the 30% off coupon that Leica issued to early adopters of the M8. How about Apple's (albeit paltry) $100 coupon for early iPhone buyers. Something along these lines is, IMHO, warranted and would not impose a significant financial hardship on the manufacturers. Not picking on Hassy here, just using your situation as an example.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Read the release from Hasselblad ( if you wish to laugh or cry - depending on how black your sense of humour can get) - they suggest that future prices are 'lower' and therefore when people 'upgrade' they can keep their current camera as a 'back-up' - these guys are on drugs - the spin doctors are running everything everywhere in every industry these days. A nice way of saying to everyone - SUCKED IN YOU IDIOTS

    Basically they are admitting that they have run out of marketing spin , yes there is no differentiation, and yes they have all been taking the pizz out of anyone STUPID enough to buy at previous prices..

    the sad thing is that they are basically saying - every year we are going to charge a premium for the new toy and then later we will smack the price down sort of till the next release is out and then really dump the remainder..

    it is a very very bad business model...for premium brands or expensive toys.they will regret this ...

    Really underlines to me the silliness of the so called full frame 645 chips thathave just come out - good luck selling these.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    It's a double-edged sword for sure: Say screw you back to them by not buying the new model at the release price, and the company goes out of business from lack of sales.
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Interesting responses.

    We have been whining about MF pricing forever. Now we are whining about getting what we wanted.

    These price adjustments are nothing new or exclusive ... and were bound to happen. Sinar has some nice new pricing package offerings, Phase One does also.

    If you look at these cameras or any other computer related technology as part of your financial portfolio you are smoking the drapes.

    They are primarily tools to make images ... and in the case of a vast majority of MFD users they are a tool to make a living.

    The "Wants & Gimmes" mentality of being a gear head comes with a whopper of a financial penalty.

    If you are not satisfied with what you have, maybe you shouldn't have bought it in the first place.

    If you didn't think what you now have wasn't going to be eclipsed pretty quickly then you must have been living in a closet.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    I don't know how it works in the US but could that $10K drop not be claimed against taxes for a business?
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    I don't know how it works in the US but could that $10K drop not be claimed against taxes for a business?
    That's an accountant question Ben. I already depreciate my gear.

    One thing that WAS mentioned on another forum is to lower the insurance value of existing gear to reflect replacement pricing.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    A price signal of 40% is a pretty big signal in competitive markets - this is a declaration of war amongst the manufacturers - and recent purchasers are just suffering some collateral damage. Sure we will benefit from lower pricing for teh next purchase...ahem assuming there will be a next purchase .

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    The sad reality is that it's also only to get worse - gradual declines with periodic step-wise drops. One of those drops coming when when Canikon introduce their > high MP 35mm DSLRs for 1/3-1/2 the price of the S2. Leica was the first to announce, but they won't be the last.

    There is only so much you can do with micro-lenses, gapless tech, low-current amplifiers, etc., re: ISO performance on uber-dense sensors before you have to up the sensor size to give yourself more headroom. Yes, it will be a major PITA with new lens lines, etc, and no, I have no idea how Canon will clean up it's lens QC and performance to do justice to a 40MP possibly AA-less 24x48 sensor, but...

    ISO issues aside, the DSLR heavyweights also NEED to have a product line that will keep pros in their high-end bodies as MF prices drop. They need to have a premium pro DSLR line with a price/performance curve that can justify itself in the midst of ongoing MFDB price plunges.

    I can see the marketing material now: $8-10K or so for 30x48mm (pick a size..), 35-40MP, clean to ISO 3200, fast multi-point AF, weather sealed, (no AA filter??????), lenses at a small premium to existing L/G units, LV, 1080P video (argh), maybe older lenses with adapters in cropped/masked mode, etc, etc.

    I wouldn't be surprised if > 35mm became the 'new' Canon 1 series line (to pick just one manufacturer).

    We're starting to get what we wanted - unfortunately.
    Last edited by robmac; 25th September 2008 at 04:31.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Interesting responses.

    We have been whining about MF pricing forever. Now we are whining about getting what we wanted.

    These price adjustments are nothing new or exclusive ... and were bound to happen. Sinar has some nice new pricing package offerings, Phase One does also.

    If you look at these cameras or any other computer related technology as part of your financial portfolio you are smoking the drapes.

    They are primarily tools to make images ... and in the case of a vast majority of MFD users they are a tool to make a living.

    The "Wants & Gimmes" mentality of being a gear head comes with a whopper of a financial penalty.

    If you are not satisfied with what you have, maybe you shouldn't have bought it in the first place.

    If you didn't think what you now have wasn't going to be eclipsed pretty quickly then you must have been living in a closet.
    Marc

    I think you are missing the point (at least my point). I am simply saying that if a massive price drop (which we are all glad for) is in the offing then the manufacturer has an obligation to current buyers. Perhaps, as in my case, three months is too long a time for retroactive pricing. But how about those folks who were buying an H3DII-39 two weeks before Photokina? They have every right to be inflamed as Hassy obviously knew at that point of their impending price cut. In my opinion buyers who purchased within a specific time window from Photokina should be given the new price. Perhaps within a longer window a discount on a lens or something like that as posted earlier. The point is that without some program of respect for their customers they will simply lose them. The "middle finger in the air" approach just doesn't get it.

    For those like you who bought into the H3D-39 when it was first introduced I don't see that the manufacturer owes anything. Early adopters, in any technology, always pay a premium for having the advantage of new tools at the outset.

    Anyway, just wanted to clear up my position on the matter as I see it.

    Woody

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    One thing I hadn't thought to consider is if the Nikon > 35mm MX-Format chatter may have some validity to it - and maybe prompted a couple of meetings at Hasselblad....

    Woody - feel for you. As much as business is business, that's a serious chunk of $$$ to watch vanish. If Hassy took the high road and offered something quietly via dealers it would go a long way re: customer retention. Something like this can put a bad taste in your mouth for a LONG time.

    As you suggest a diminishing rate of refund/credit would (I think) be unheralded and get a LOT of industry air-time and be a real marketing coup on Hassy's part. ANY comfort of being partially future-proofed in a market that is now starting to follow the eat-your-young DSLR market would go a long way with potential buyers - all other things being equal.

    That said, seeing as how it was not announced with the cuts, it may come down to how gracious/creative you dealer wants to be - despite the fact they likely (one would hope) had no idea it was coming that far in advance.
    Last edited by robmac; 25th September 2008 at 08:04.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    ah...reminds me of the new testament parable of the drachmas and the vineyard workers

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Jim - I'm only allowed into religious structures for weddings and funerals, and only then when accompanied by an adult. Care to elaborate?

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    basically, the vineyard owner hired workers to start in the morning for 3 drachmas. as the day progressed, he found he needed another worker who also wanted 3 drachmas. of course the first workers complained, thinking they should then be paid more. the lesson was you get what you agreed to.

    I used to ride to high school with a car owner who pulled this cost shift when adding a new rider...and he quoted the drachma story to us.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    An interesting development of the inevitable price wars and the fact that the MFDB manufacturers have axed their upgrade policies used to keep backs off the cheap 2nd hand market is that we will start seeing very cheap MFDB's on the 2nd hand market pretty soon. Heck, an Aptus 17 gives 17 megabytes with a 645 ratio and can easily be fitted to a dirt cheap previous generation Med format camera with incredible glass, no doubt soon for less than a 1Ds mkIII. If as many shooters will be buying 5D mkII's as the commercial photographer boards seem to suggest, they'll hardly be able to give them away soon enough.

    I do like the idea of being able to buy a mamiya 645 and a couple of manual focus lenses, I shot some good stuff with a 645 Super, but to be honest these days I'm either shooting long exposures or at higher iso's and often both. Might be worth it for studio based photographers with clients who can tell the difference between a 16 megapixel back and a 5D mkII, those very few that can probably be counted on a single hand these days that is from what I hear...

    That said, for a wedding photographer like myself, a 17 megapixel back on an AFD2 might be just the ticket for portraits and family groups. Will probably be about $4000 soon enough and I would prefer it to a 5D mkII, if only for the better 'look' for portraiture than the typical 35mm DSLR tonality, etc.
    Last edited by Ben Rubinstein; 25th September 2008 at 09:58.
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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Just got this directly from Hassy:

    What does the new pricing strategy entail?

    Simply put, it means lower prices on all Hasselblad digital products. The new, lower price level is based on two primary cornerstones. Firstly, most new high-tech products begin with a high price point, and high-end digital camera products have been no exception. Over time, increased volume and improved production techniques eventually allow lower prices and more accessible products. This is now happening in our industry. We can now produce our cameras at a lower cost and we can pass the savings on to photographers.

    Secondly, by significantly lowering the retail price we are able to remove the necessity of a trade-up program, which means that even lower pricing is possible. The end result is a simple and straightforward pricing model which allows us to bring the full range of H3DII cameras, from the entry level H3DII-31 to the new H3DII-50 and upcoming H3DII-60, to photographers at a dramatically lower price. And in addition, as the proud owner of a Hasselblad H3D camera, this means that in the future you will be able to purchase new Hasselblad cameras at a lower cost, and be able to keep your previous camera as a back-up.

    For most discerning photographers the only reason not to have a Hasselblad has been that they couldn't afford one. We hope that our new pricing will enable a whole new generation of photographers to experience these amazing cameras.
    As I read it I think they've finally realized they need a larger installed base to support any kind of viable business model. And gee, that's such a novel concept; lower prices to sell more units!

    Interesting to note that taking in old backs at a discount has apparently meant all this time the cost of the discount was simply pre-added into the retail price of the newest backs, and obviously done in an effort to corner the market --- ZING! However, now that they eliminated that foolishness, coupled with lower manufacturing costs, they're going to keep the prices of the top-end models high (read even larger profit margins) and let the secondhand market determine the price of older backs as they age --- isn't that just what the DSLR manufacturers have been doing all along?

    In the end, it is the right move for them to make. However, all of us who bought in at the controlled-entry and artificially-inflated prices -- only to now lose out on future trade-in value -- will no doubt be left with a bad taste in our mouths for a very long time to come...
    Jack
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    This calls for a nap. LOL
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Guy, I think the point is that *IF* one is considering an upgrade to a larger back, and *IF* their current manufacturer is not Hassy, then they might want to consider doing that upgrade right now...
    Jack
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Jack - the perverse outcome of this move - will be that they sell less in the short term as people wait to see what the competition does with their pricing..then it becomes a game of chicken amongst the competitors - as they all see volumes decline and they start to sweat..teh economic conditions dont help either.

    Just noticed Yair's past re Sinar?Leaf 'co-operation'.

    The pennies are dropping clunk clunk clunk - mergers and consolidations underway. WOW - people will now just get more confused as levels of distrust of marketing BS explode. There is no certainty about who is going to be left standing or what the product ranges will end up looking like - and who is going to end up supporting what....

    gentlemen - Caveat Emptor.
    Last edited by PeterA; 25th September 2008 at 14:54.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    Jack - the perverse outcome of this move - will be that they sell less in the short term as people wait to see what the competition does with their pricing..then it becomes a game of chicken amongst the competitors - as they all see volumes decline and they start to sweat..teh economic conditions dont help either.

    Just noticed Yair's past re Sinar?Leaf 'co-operation'.

    The pennies are dropping clunk clunk clunk - mergers and consolidations underway. WOW - people will now just get more confused as levels of distrust of marketing BS explode. There is no certainty about who is going to be left standing or what the product ranges will end up looking like - and who is going to end up supporting what....

    gentlemen - Caveat Emptor.
    Peter

    I agree (mostly) but sometimes I think it is Caveat Pre-Emptor! LOL) Sorry for the silly but I could not resist

    Best

    Woody

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Off the record, I talked to a guy at the show who is a national ditributor for a country in the EU (let's leave it at that) about the price drops. Many in the distibution network are not in favor of this move. All it does is erode revenue and margin. High end gear like this has low margins to begin with (contrary to what end-users believe). In order to maintain the same margins at Hassy they don't need to double their sales - they need to triple them at the new prices!

    Ouch. That means, in order to pull ahead profit wise, Hassy needs to sell 4 times as many cameras as they are now. That is a lot of sales growth. As this gentleman put it, if the demand curve isn't elastic, they are screwed. Economics 101. He wasn't sure how Hassy was financing the deal, as this requires a large cash outlay that they just don't have.

    Bottom line: this is an extremely risky move on Hassy's part. And current users who recently bought systems like Woody are left holding the depreciation.

    David
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Oh well maybe they will force Hasselblad uses to trade up in order to be able to use a bunch of new lenses specifically made for the larger chips - it kinda worked with the 28 maybe it will work again. Lots of maybes.

    There is one certainty - I wont be 'upgrading from teh 39 megapixel camera I have now - and I am relaxed enough to write off my back when it stops working and sell my lenses then for whatever they are worth. I dont need to buy any new fangled lens for any new fangled chip - that one wont work on me again.

    The S2 is looking better all the time delivers focal plane and Leaf shutter - the H3D11-39 should last a year....the Phase back will go on Mamiya/ Alpa and any view camera. So i am relaxed. and will now enjoy the Hasselblad show from the sidelines -

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Indeed. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...."
    Jack
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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    Something (and no, it wasn't the specter of the S2..;>) prompted Hasselblad/Imacon (and their holding company) to precipitate a MFDB price war. Over the the next x months we'll see a press release from someone that will drop in like the key piece in a jigsaw puzzle.

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    Re: Hasselblad significantly drops prices.

    I wonder if that's really true? Because their marketing and development costs (software and firmware is not cheap) are fixed. Also some of the tooling and manufacturing costs are as well. Even the per unit costs such as sensor chips can scale quite a bit depending on volume. I'll bet that Hasselblad has forseen uncertain economy and wagered that this was the time to gain market dominance and was in good enough financial position to do it. Certainly the price drops have made me think twice about switching from Rollei to H.

    Quote Originally Posted by dfarkas View Post
    Off the record, I talked to a guy at the show who is a national ditributor for a country in the EU (let's leave it at that) about the price drops. Many in the distibution network are not in favor of this move. All it does is erode revenue and margin. High end gear like this has low margins to begin with (contrary to what end-users believe). In order to maintain the same margins at Hassy they don't need to double their sales - they need to triple them at the new prices!

    Ouch. That means, in order to pull ahead profit wise, Hassy needs to sell 4 times as many cameras as they are now. That is a lot of sales growth. As this gentleman put it, if the demand curve isn't elastic, they are screwed. Economics 101. He wasn't sure how Hassy was financing the deal, as this requires a large cash outlay that they just don't have.

    Bottom line: this is an extremely risky move on Hassy's part. And current users who recently bought systems like Woody are left holding the depreciation.

    David

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