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Thread: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Smile Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Okay guys,

    has been a long time since I have been posting here... MISS YOU ALL...


    Been so busy with RED EPIC M8 traveling the Globe, shooting, prepping for couple of Movies, and oh, yeah, after 22 years in the US moved back home to Rome Italy...

    Now, even so I absolutely LOVE the RED EPIC, and the images I print off the Frame Grabs, I need once again a really High Resolution MF camera for some serious Printing, and that famous gallery to set up.

    I'll shoot mainly Beauty, High Fashion, both in Studios and outdoor, but always with lights, no flash, continuos lights, using mostly the BRIESE FOCUS CINEMA HMI's I also use with the RED EPIC for filming Motion Pictures with, plus some occasional flash.

    Since I'm back in Italy I might also shoot some Architectures, mostly Monuments and statues, and why not some of this Country's most beautiful Landscapes...

    Now I see something new and something old...

    LEICA S2, is still high on my list, because of its body form and the Lenses I love, but some times I really think that 37MP are way too low for a MF body.

    HASSELBLAD Ha actually two contenders that might fit my bill, the H4D-60 and of course the HD4-200MS.

    PHASE ONE* Has really come up with a nice DB the Q180, wow.

    LEAF APTUS 12* This one is sure a great DB, and I love the form factor of its sensor as I do that of the Leica S2, I prefer this to the Square one.

    Unfortunately both the P1 and Leaf, use the 645DF body, with the absurd AA batteries, I really can't believe that a MF body in 2012 has to run on those AA batteries, really??

    Oh and an other down fall is the V-Grip, what a disappointment that was.

    But both Leaf and P1 DB's are an insane quality of an image that they produce, so the choice here got tuff on me again.

    This time I will test drive each and every one for few days in Rome, before a final decision is made, this time I have the space to shoot in and the girls to shoot at, so lets see.

    What say you fellow GetDPI'ers??

    Share your honest experience with each one, pros and cons.
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 4th February 2012 at 08:07.

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Unfortunately both the P1 and Leaf, use the 645DF body, with the absurd AA batteries, I really can't believe that a MF body in 2012 has to run on those AA batteries, really??
    I always liked that you would never be further than a gas station away from a new set of batteries (unlike for instance some other MF bodies which require batteries which would be hard to get more of on short notice unless you happen to be in NYC).

    That said, I know exactly what you mean!

    As of today however CI can certify an rechargeable LiIon battery for the DF body.

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    Member carl-b's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Doug I am getting a page not found error when clicking on your link

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Hey Ketch. I envy your position to choose as you may ... and at the same time I don't because there are so many incredibly good choices. All this stuff has evolved to be so good that one is splitting hairs when discussing the differences.

    I can speak to a couple of your considerations ... the H4D/60 (and some experience with a Hasselblad multishot, but not the big gun 50/200MS), and the Leica S2P. I'll leave the others to those that work with Leaf and Phase.

    The H4D/60 is really well balanced in over-all features between body, back and lenses, and recent firmware doubled the resolution of the LCD and added an in-camera spirit level and one touch 100% view to check focus. For studio work with lights (strobes or continuous), I really like the waist level finder point-of-view .... just like I did with the older Hasselblad ... there's just something about that classic perspective and working relationship with the subject. The H4D/60 is a Dalsa sensor, and the way it renders skin tones is very nice. My most used unique feature of the H4D is True Focus/Absolute Position Lock which allows auto-focusing at wide open apertures like with a HC100/2.2 with an off-center subject (even at the edge of a frame) and recomposing while keeping that subject in focus.

    Cons: heavy, and all lenses are leaf-shutter ... great with strobes, but a tad limiting in bright ambient if you want to shoot wide-open ... unless ND lenses are employed.

    Multi-Shot is amazing technology, but I'm not sure it fits your list of subject matter. The color fidelity is what makes the MS backs so attractive ... I've never seen such color accuracy ... but that is pretty specialized.

    Not so fast writing off the S2 because it is a mere 37 meg. I have been astounded by the files from this camera ... part of which you can lay at the doorstep of the lenses I think. I've never used lenses this good, and it is taking time to realize everything they can do. Leica has issued firmware upgrades that increased the custom functionality and AF accuracy of this camera to make it very easy and very fast to operate in a changing creative environment. Frankly, for shooting people indoors or in studio it's agility has made it a favorite over any other MFD camera I've used ... and, it has all but relegated my 35mm DSLR to snoozing in the closet most of the time. It's form factor is less bulky and makes it an easy choice to take with, and travel is a joy. What has really been a revelation is the power management of the S2 ... the battery never seems to get depleted, it goes on and on and on ... shooting, LCD reviews, focus checks, nothing seems to drain it.

    The real match-up IMO is the fast aperture ASPH and APO lenses ... which are super great wide open, and when used with ambient or continuous lights allows very selective focus ... especially the 120/2.5 Macro.

    Cons: Price.

    Did I mention ... Price?

    -Marc

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I always liked that you would never be
    As of today however CI can certify an rechargeable LiIon battery for the DF body.

    Doug Peterson
    That looks very interesting, please post the results here on the forum.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Rechargeable Li-ion battery for the DF. Now that's cool....

    EJJI 10K Battery and Charger :: Capture Integration Medium Format Digital Back Sales & Rental and Other Professional Photographic Equipment

    Availability, Doug? Don't make me send Donna and Kenna out there...

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    I always hesitate to throw in a word on these types of threads because they can become so tit for tat. Nevertheless, I thought that I'd throw in a quick point about the S2 I'm using. I'm not certain about how you plan on using the camera, but hooked on to a Black Rapid sling, I'm using the camera as walk-around street shooting machine through some very crowded, dirty and wet Manila streets and can say that I'm very impressed. I'm generally on the street from 2-6 hours per day and feel like the postman as neither size, weight, battery life, durability or weather sealing (especially in a climate with intermittent rain storms) has impacted what I'm trying to capture.

    Kurt

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Okay guys,

    PHASE ONE* Has really come up with a nice DB the Q180, wow.

    Unfortunately both the P1 and Leaf, use the 645DF body, with the absurd AA batteries, I really can't believe that a MF body in 2012 has to run on those AA batteries, really??
    couple of thoughts,

    - Li-Ion AA batteries in my DF last substantially longer, the rechargeable kit coming for heavy shooters looks promising, and as Doug said the backup is only a gas station away.

    - strong rumors abound about Phase working on a complete new body which means that amazing IQ180 would probably have a new home (yeah I know more money, but you end up with a DF for backup if you want) ... if they do as good of job on the body as they did on the back, it could be an amazing cameras. (admittedly no one who might know has given any hints at all as to how close they are).

    - While I agree Leica makes nice glass (although the selection of focal lengths for the S2 seems pretty limited), the phase/shneider lenses are pretty sweet, and some of the phase/mamiya ones are also very good.

    imho ... (and I'm biased, I have an IQ180 with on a DF and i'm quite happy with the setup.)
    wayne
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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Thanks guys, much appreciated your inputs here...

    Fortunately money is not the issue here, which is a very good thing, but I'm one that chooses carefully what He buys, even so I always try to buy the best money can buy, is not always the one with the most MP that I'm after.

    The LEICA S2 in fact well considered here, only has 37, vs. the BIG guns with 80, yet is in the mist as I do LOVE its form factor and the lenses as I said, just need to really tested out and print to see it against the BIG boys in my environment and Color rendition, as well most importantly Skin tones.

    HASSELBLAD is the Heaviest of the bunch for sure with both bigger lenses and bigger body, but I never use this Pro cameras as walk around camera, even so that could change if I go with the LEICA S2.

    True that the AA are all over the place, but you see, when I go shoot, I don't have a store or gas station around the corner, as I go pretty deep in to the Wild, so I can't be carrying cases of AA's either, so this is the most negative factor by far for the DF body.

    I'm definitely keeping an eye on P1 to see their New Body, if the rumors are thru, however time is also of essence here for me, possibly buying a system before the end of this month so to take it with me to BRAZIL to the RED EPIC workshop and Fashion Shoot.

    While I'm also never one of those that like this vs. that, I do appreciate the honest opinions given in Pro forums such as here, and for this I felt safe in posting this Thread, and I hope we continue to share Professional opinions amongst us, always in respect of each other and the Manufacturers in questions, as well as their representatives.


    *On an other note I really need to find a Hasselblad rep in ROME, need to shoot me some tests with the Hassy H4D-200MS, and fully understand what those 200 babies could do for my Mega Prints...
    But wil I be happy with 50MP when shooting all my half naked girls? Or will I be thinking I was better off with the 80MP sensor?

    The MP's are the real only reason for thinking of the LEICA S2 in second place but look forward to find a Leica dealer in Rome, and put some prints to the test on this baby as well...

    Granted that my RED EPIC with only 14MP's gives me some really nice Frame Grabs and do print very well, so 37 on a larger sensor could make me happy too, test test test...

    PS: I sure wish I had a MF body today here in Rome, snowed al night, a very rare thing to see this city under the SNOW!! My SUV looks nice under the white too...

    iPhone pic.
    Last edited by KETCH ROSSI; 4th February 2012 at 08:23.

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    True that the AA are all over the place, but you see, when I go shoot, I don't have a store or gas station around the corner, as I go pretty deep in to the Wild, so I can't be carrying cases of AA's either, so this is the most negative factor by far for the DF body.
    I think you are are making far too much out of this issue. AA batteries and their life depend mostly on how much draw their is. The DF is far better than previous Mamiya bodies. The back is powered by it's own batteries, and they are far more of an issue than the AA's. Most of us in the field carry 4 or 5 back batteries, and 1 spare clip with AA batteries. On a shoot, I may have to change the back battery a couple of times (especially if it's cold). On the other hand the AA's last a very long time. I'm talking thousands of shots. If you are worried about the AA's dying on a shoot you are going to need 40 or 50 back batteries to last as long as the AA's especially if you use the Everyready Li-Ion. The only time you need a gas station for spares is if you forget to replace the 1 set of spares that went dead months ago.
    wayne
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Rather than think in MPs, think in sensor size which will have a bigger impact in the rendering of the final image. An 80MP back only has a 40% increase in resolving power over a 40MP back. And bigger is not always better. If you prefer deeper depth of field in general, then a small sensor has an advantage.

    The S2 may be simpler as well--folks using the IQ180 seem to have to shoot LCC frames to correct for lens cast. I have not heard S2 owners with lens cast issues. Not that shooting a LCC frame is hard and for studio work, once you have the frame you just apply it to each frame, but it come down to a preferred workflow.

    And then there is the lens choice. Not that you need hundreds of lenses, but I like to shoot with a normal, which you just can't get for an S2.

    Ideally, you need to get your hands on these cameras and shoot with them and play with the files. I have a P1 back and a Pentax 645D. Both make great files, but they have their own character.

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    LEAF APTUS 12* This one is sure a great DB, and I love the form factor of its sensor as I do that of the Leica S2, I prefer this to the Square one.
    I am a advanced amateur and am very very pleased with my Rolleiflex Hy6 and Leaf AFi-II 12 (same as Aptus 12, except newer concept of the back, with rotating sensor and tilt display).

    Recommend to take a look;

    Pascal's Rolleiflex Pages

    and for price, purchase etc to contact DHW (fabricator of Rolleiflex) in Germany directly DHW Fototechnik GmbH

    I recommend simply telephoning to Mr. Hans Hartje, CEO directly, per Test reports and other information

    I find the image quality of AFi-II 12 stellar, and it is on pair such with IQ180, but comes with a no iPhone interface, a lesser price and no lesser image quality. The Hy6 is excellent, very precise focus, very excellent ergonomics and balance, and a 6x6 focus screen in folding waist level finder that I find is a sheer joy to visualize an image through. Lenses are very excellent and I will argue better than Mamiya 645 lenses which I prior owned many of. For Hy6 they are made in Germany by Schneider and Zeiss. I only have AF 80mm 2.8 Xenotar PQS and 50mm FLE. The Xenotar is super sharp and with a fantastic rendering which makes it the best lens I have owned. The FLE is sharp but manual focus confirmation only. They make for a very nice kit to have in a small shoulder bag with the Hy6 and AFi back. The AFi back with its rotating sensor and folding screen works excellent with this combination.

    Prior I had Mamiya AFDIII and AFD cameras and I agree with you. Compared to Hy6 they felt not at all good to hold and use. Mind you, what I state is not because I am not blind on gear. I sold/traded five camera systems to finance my upgrade of Leaf back and the Hy6 and I am very pleased. Likewise tired of using gear that do not measure up.

    Attached show the Leaf AFi camera which is same as Rolleiflex/Sinar Hy6, and there are optional 45 and 90 degree finders. Personally I am happy with the waist level finder because it is brighter and because I do not have to lift camera to standing head height, thus I can hold more stable which result in sharper images. Best is to buy a Rolleiflex Hy6 from DHW or one of their agents because it comes with latest firmware and warranty.

    The Hy6 had a very unfortunate business trouble some years back. I think many who have used it would agree on that it would be a blessing if Phase One and Leaf were to develop it further, because it is simply the best camera and system out there today for a digital back, and in particular with a rotating sensor and folding finder.

    Best regards,
    Anders

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    More on the rechargable batteries here:

    Ejji 10K Battery

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Thanks again guys for your continue inputs...

    On the AA, I know I am not making a BIG deal of it, it is a BIG deal, I have used them extensively in both rechargeable and not, and will NEVER again, use any rechargeable butteries, they simply are NOT good, and I have tried so many, they don't hold the charge, and are practically useless especially when changing extreme temperatures which often I do, so its a DEFINITIVE NO, on the DF body till they come up with a BETTER solution.

    As far as MP vs. Sensor, size, I'm indeed well aware of their factoring on the image quality, and I do agree that MP's are not always the King, but given same sensor size, mostly the higher MP's will print better and larger, however I have seen some impressive prints from the Leica S2, and for this even so a much smaller MP count, I am seriously considering this system.

    As far as lens choices, same as in my Motion Picture shooting, I'm not like most Directors or Directors of Photography, which must have every single Focal available, even if it is from 21 to 25 to 28, they wanted all, not me, I have a specific likes and dislikes about DOF and Depth Budget when telling a story and I usually jump form a Super Wide to 35mm to an 80mm usually jumping all together the 50mm format which is a normal lens in the 35mm word, respectively in MF a 70ish will disappear form my list, in truth 3 lenses will do me good, so again even with Leica S system poor, currently in lenses I would be okay.

    I did in the past considered the Afi body, as it does have an interesting ergonomics, but never tested, I guess I could tested, and get the Leaf Aptus 12 in there, thanks for the links, but I am so busy that can't travel out side of Rome, other then the locations already scheduled to work on, so lets hope they have a body in Rome to test...

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    On the AA, I know I am not making a BIG deal of it, it is a BIG deal, I have used them extensively in both rechargeable and not, and will NEVER again, use any rechargeable butteries, they simply are NOT good, and I have tried so many, they don't hold the charge, and are practically useless especially when changing extreme temperatures which often I do, so its a DEFINITIVE NO, on the DF body till they come up with a BETTER solution.
    I'm confused. There are now two different solutions for the DF:
    - Use the V-Grip Air and use the same LiOn battery as the digital back
    - Use the LiOn Battery module for the body.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    You mean that the V grip that every one seems to complain about it and several sold?

    Any way, I was not aware that with the V grip in place the DF works without the need of the AA, and off the DB battery.

    Huum need to find out more about it.

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    You mean that the V grip that every one seems to complain about it and several sold?

    Any way, I was not aware that with the V grip in place the DF works without the need of the AA, and off the DB battery.

    Huum need to find out more about it.
    "Every one" is definitely not accurate. For sure some like it, some don't - easy solution is to get one in your hands and decide which you are. If it doesn't work for you there is the second of two options I offered.

    The V-Grip can power the body using the same battery-type as fits in the back. One for the back, one for the grip. Thereby you can carry/use just one kind of charger and battery.

    Either way, lithium ion module, or V-Grip using LiOn batteries, you wouldn't be using AA batteries (since you dislike AA batteries so much) if you went with a DF. So it's kind of a moot point that it is able to use AA batteries.

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Last time I purchased the MF system before the upgrade to the DF, before I sold it right back, I was not aware of this solution and used the AA batteries.

    This of course does make a big difference for me and puts things in a better position to put the P1 and Leaf DB's strong in the competition, even so I did like the Hy6, I can't remember what the issue was, and why I didn't end up getting that body.

    Mainly what I really need to do is organize a Major Shoot out, of not the VS. this or that, but so that I have a full day to shoot all cameras at once, shooting what I shoot most... FASION PORTRAITS, if the camera passes this test, then shooting Table Tops, Cars, Mountains... that is easy...

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    The V-Grip is a great battery solution, but I could fit a quarter between it and the camera body. Absolutely the worst piece of camera gear I have ever bought. Phase One should be embarrassed that they put that out on the market. But hey, they also seem to like that camera body... But I use it for the battery.

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Mainly what I really need to do is organize a Major Shoot out, of not the VS. this or that, but so that I have a full day to shoot all cameras at once, shooting what I shoot most... FASION PORTRAITS, if the camera passes this test, then shooting Table Tops, Cars, Mountains... that is easy...
    There ya go!

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Where do I sign up? Wait, I think Dave already knows...

    I can pick it up next month when I'm in Atlanta.
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    If you do mostly fashion and portrait you will love the rotating sensor on the Aptus 12R. Takes like 1 second to change from portrait to landscape and back and the ergonomics of the camera don't have to change.

    I'm a big fan of the AFi/Hy6 system. Your choice of 4 finders, some of the fastest best glass available - like the zeiss 110/2, Schneider 50/2.8, 80/2, 180/2.8. The excellently damped mirror and shutters in the lenses let's you shoot at very slow shutter speeds or at fast sync. Histogram display on the grip near the controls. Camera can do a very fast frame rate and there are even film backs for it too if you like. Ergonomics are the best out there IMHO. If you go with the Leaf AFi-ii 12 you can use the sensor flex to select your crop ratio, rotate and use the articulating screen too. What's not to love?

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    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    The more I continue to contemplate this shoot out and the more I see one thing as I try to set things up, if I do find available bodies in Rome, if not I might need to go to Milan to do this, or even strait to Germany, or just wait till I return from my March Fashion Shoot (this with the RED EPIC) from Brazil, and then I can stop by in LA for few days right before NAB in Vegas, and do this there, then simply come back with a BAG FULL OF GOODIES...

    What I always not have been a big fan of in MF was always the nSquare or near Square ratio, and not just because coming from many years of 35mm shooting, but because of my life long passion for Cinema, and love the Frame grabs I get out of the RED EPIC in both Landscape and Portrait mode, just lovely, so for this reason the Leica S2 and the Leaf Aptus II 10R were my first choices, as I really hate to be cropping, I frame exactly were I want it, and that is it, however lets see how I fill with the larger sensor look when printing.

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    I am a happy S2 user but if you write that you like to shoot architecture I imediatly think of the Artec (or another camera with T/S).

    My personal experience is Hy6 and S2, and I liked both but there is a big difference how they handle.

    While I enjoyed the Hy6 WLF a lot and can only say good things about the lenses and the IQ I find the big advantage (for me) of the S2 that it can do so many things that I earlier did with a dslr. It draws less attention than other MF cameras, it handles very fast, its weathersealed and the lenses are fast.

    I I wan the lottery I might even want both, a Leaf or Sinar back with Hy6 and Artech and the S2.

    How big do you plan to print that you worry about "only" 37MP?

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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    I routinely print 44" x 58" prints from my 40MP Pentax 645D files and they are beautiful and I doubt I have hit a size limit. The S2 has an almost identical sensor. If you don't crop, I am not really sure what more you want.

    To give you a scale of 44" prints, the first image in this article has two 44" prints I made from Pentax 645D files for a poetry festival. The frame was extended for the poetry and so the final print was 7 foot high, but the image was not cropped. 44" is quite impressive:

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  27. #27
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Okay so this is what I will be shooting in percentages:

    HIGH FASHION 50%

    LANDSCAPE w GIRLS 10%

    CITYSCAPES w GIRLS 10%

    LANDSCAPES 10%
    ARCHITECTURE 10%
    OTHER 10%

    So shooting girls is mostly what I'll be using the camera for, both in Studio and outdoors in a variety of Back Drops, especially here in Ancient Rome Historic Center.

    But when I do Still Photography I really want DETAIL!!

    For this I worry that the 37MP's of the LEICA S2 might not be good in off, then again, we'll see.

    How big I'll print?


    BIG

    STUDIO FASHION about 6 Feet

    LANDSCAPE AND CITYSCAPE FASHION up to 9 feet

    CITYSCAPES AND LANDSCAPES even bigger, up to 12 feet,

    Obviously since the viewing distance as we go that big will be further away, it will not need to be 320DPI, however I do need detail like you don't usually see in this type of prints, and since I want to make an exceptional start,. I do want and need ot chose wisely.

  28. #28
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Detail? You mean like this? Here is a single 40MP frame shot through a hotel window and 100% crop. The entire pano is also here. This is shot with a Pentax manual focus 120mm macro. I am sure a Leica lens will be equal to or better than this--you may even find a hotel window with better optical properties.

    I think ultimately you need to get some files and print them to see what the pixel resolution and sensor size means. Whatever MFD system you get, I doubt you will be disappointed.

  29. #29
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Yes of course I'll need t print them all and see final detail on print, and this is exactly what I intend to do this time around before putting down 50 to 80k on aMF system..

    Nice shots.

  30. #30
    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post

    On the AA, I know I am not making a BIG deal of it, it is a BIG deal, I have used them extensively in both rechargeable and not, and will NEVER again, use any rechargeable butteries, they simply are NOT good, and I have tried so many, they don't hold the charge, and are practically useless especially when changing extreme temperatures which often I do, so its a DEFINITIVE NO, on the DF body till they come up with a BETTER solution.
    Well you are making a big deal of it, and you refuse to believe the truth.

    Eveready Lithium I am speaking of are NOT rechargeable batteries. They will last you forever - (OK a long time. At least 50 recharges of the back battery). (they are pricey but they will out last several sets of alkaline batteries. One set of spares (which is less than you will need with any other camera solution using rechargeable systems) is all you will ever need, and you probably can wait months after one runs out before even worrying about replacing them.

    Don't believe me if you will, but not considering the DF for this reason is completely illogical. I'm not sure why you disbelieve those that have the bodies, but a DF goes a VERY long time on 1 set of these batteries.

    It really is a non-issue. If you want to use this as an excuse to discount the DF, fine, but you are misguided and making completely unfounded assumptions without any fact or experience.
    wayne
    My gallery

  31. #31
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    I'll jump in here and second what Wayne said about the Everyready Lithiums. Simple put thery're a great battery. Costly - but the best I've ever use. I used these while testing the DF last year in Jackson WY where it warmed up to 5 degress somedays and most had a windchill of -15. These batteries lasted way longer than the Phase batteries in my P65.

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  32. #32
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Another advantage not mentioned about the Energizer Lithium AA batteries, is that they are exceptionally lightweight---much lighter than either rechargeable or standard alkaline AA batteries. Energizer Lithium AAs cost about US$9 per set of 4, but they are dependable and last. Power consumption/stability is much improved in the DF body (compared to previous generations) and simply is not an issue with AA lithiums installed.

    I look forward to finding out more about the new lithium ion DF battery module.

    ken

  33. #33
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    I don't want to add to the confusion but I'm not exactly sure what is the complaint with the V-grip (other that its price, but you said money is not a problem). I mostly shoot in studio vertically and I'd venture that if you shoot fashion you want a comfortable grip when holding the camera vertically. I don't know of any other medium format that offers that (other than the RZ or Hy6 with a rotating back).
    With the V-grip you use the exact same battery as the back and it lasts forever. As has been said above the P1 backs will eat batteries like there is no tomorrow. In my shooting conditions in studio about 300 shots is all they last. My workflow now is, change the 16Gb card and change the battery in the back. After a full day of shooting going through 4 or 5 batteries in the back the camera's battery is still showing full power. The nice thing is when traveling in remotes places I have the option of using AA for the camera if in a pinch I want to save all the batteries for the back.
    Also, if you shoot fashion and use the new Profoto Air's the grip has the radio trigger incorporated. One less thing to fuss about.
    My only gripe with the grip is that I wish it was integrated in the camera instead of being an accessory and I sure hope Phase One new camera has a vertical grip like a Nikon D3 or Canon D1s.
    my $0.02

  34. #34
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Okay Wayne, you made your case...

    I'll be buying few sets of this batteries and give them a try on my ever Hungry Flashes, see how they stuck up, then I'll have a set ready when I do the test with the DF.

    Its just really been that bad with me and AA in the past, for this I just about discarded them all, but I'll sincerely give this a good shot, as I do come to need them badly for other gear as well from time to time, and even so I'm moving to an all CONTINUOS lighting system for all my Cinema work and Still or Frame Grabs work, I will still want to have some easy, small portable flashes with me.

    Thanks guys, I will give the DF body a good fair chance, if for anything else because is the only one of two viable options to use the Leaf or P1 DB's...

  35. #35
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Okay Wayne, you made your case...

    I'll be buying few sets of this batteries and give them a try on my ever Hungry Flashes, see how they stuck up, then I'll have a set ready when I do the test with the DF.

    ....
    Ketch, Just to muddle the issue more, I wouldn't use the Energizer Lithium AAs in certain flashes (Speedlites)---or exercise caution. For example, in the Canon 580EX, the batteries can get very very hot, shut down the flash, and possibly cause damage. This happened to my assistant, and she wasn't machine gun shooting either. So I googled Canon 580 and Lithiums (gotta love google, huh? Not quite like actual experience, but it can confirm experience) and it was a "known issue." Go figure.

    I use rechargeables or regular Duracell AAs normally. The Energizer Lithium AAs are reserved only for the DF. Given the choice, I'd use the new Lithium ion DF insert and keep a few packs of the Energizer Lithium AAs as backup.

    ken

  36. #36
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Cool, thanks Ken, yeah I actually did knew about the issue on the 580's, still have two new ones I will end up selling once the 1Ds III goes out the door...

  37. #37
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Ketch,

    The Hasselblad H4d/60 or H4d/50, might make a good choice for your style of shooting. Leaf shutters are the best for sync, and landscape, as they don't create movement as much as the FP shutter of the DF. One battery powers the unit, and with a few extra, can take you into the wilderness for days! The center of gravity on the H models is ideal for portraits or landscape.
    What's not mentioned here is the fact that the FP shutter is always part of the sequence in the DF, it can't be isolated even using leaf shutter lenses. There's also the issue of the camera jamming when using MU, so much of an issue that there's been numerous threads on this. I think it's fair to mention this considering the investment. It's really the lens that will make the best use of the resolution you need. Have fun!

  38. #38
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Ketch,
    I should be in Milano within few days, cannot help with the AFI12 but no problem to bring my AFI system with let's say the 80 and 180 + the AFI7II. You should try the rotating sensor, just magic compare to all others brands. Anyway, your post can easily start WWIII between MF users :-) Cheers, jean-Luc

  39. #39
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    John,

    syncing is not most of my concern as I am moving almost entirely to the BRIESE FOCUS CINEMA HMI continuos lighting system, as well as also continuos LEWD sources and few super powerful HMI units, 18K's, but I will most definitely shoot the Hassy, and leaning to the H4D-200MS.

    Thanks Jean-Luc, I'm on my way to Egypt for a Movie, and right after I return to Rome I'm taking off for NY ,to hit Brazil...

    But I truly appreciate your offer!!

  40. #40
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Meh... Nuff wrong with AA batteries.. I don't use AF much and my packs last for few months easy.. I actually like to have them b/c then i know i got option of falling back to film at any time, and AA batteries are easy to find. Charging when you traveling becomes real problem sometime.

  41. #41
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    For me has always been the issue that AA don't last but few flashes, so for this I have been against, but since you guys are backing them up, then I no longer have an issue with them, so the DF body system will be tried...

  42. #42
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSI View Post
    Okay so this is what I will be shooting in percentages:

    HIGH FASHION 50%

    LANDSCAPE w GIRLS 10%

    CITYSCAPES w GIRLS 10%

    LANDSCAPES 10%
    ARCHITECTURE 10%
    OTHER 10%

    So shooting girls is mostly what I'll be using the camera for, both in Studio and outdoors in a variety of Back Drops, especially here in Ancient Rome Historic Center.

    But when I do Still Photography I really want DETAIL!!
    Shooting girls can be fun! Mind you I am an advanced amateur shooting mostly landscapes and people on travels, but recent did some amateur model shoots in Shanghai. Attached is a 4.7MP crop. Cropping can be handy. I did not like the pose of the model's body in that particular image, but her facial pose.., so sure comes in handy with pixels!

    While it is not firstly the number of pixels that impress with the AFi-II 12, they are very useful. As for detail, yes of course 80MP give that. More pixels though require a better technique and the Hy6 helps me hold the camera better and more steady, also because I do not need to lift it to standing head level. I would have worried big time shooting hand held 80MP with a Mamiya AFDIII because it is heavy to hold to head level and grip is not comfortable.

    Some more photos from those amateur model shoots if you guys are interested (C1 only):

    2011 12 18
    2011 12 10
    2011 12 10

    The S2 is spoken much highly of also.

    Best regards,
    Anders

  43. #43
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I'm confused. There are now two different solutions for the DF:
    - Use the V-Grip Air and use the same LiOn battery as the digital back
    - Use the LiOn Battery module for the body.
    Doug, can you point me to a page of the lion battery module product? Is this new? Can't find it on your website? I'm searching for a new solution for the DF body!

    Regards

    Paul

  44. #44
    Member carl-b's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Doug, can you point me to a page of the lion battery module product? Is this new? Can't find it on your website? I'm searching for a new solution for the DF body!

    Regards

    Paul
    It's in one of Dougs comments further back


    Seems like the link is broken again.
    Try here

    http://www.ejji.biz/Ejji_10K_Battery/10K_Battery.html

  45. #45
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Thanks, Carl!

  46. #46
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSI's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Nice Anders,

    yes some time having the extra room and resolution can come really handy to crop, however for me I really do need the all resolution, and I frame carefully not to need any cropping.

    I look forward to this shoot out...

  47. #47
    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Another vote for the Energizer Lithium AAs. They noticeably lighten my 645AFD and they last long enough that I hardly need to think about them - whereas I'm always fretting about keeping my DB batteries topped up between sessions. I just carry a spare 645AFD battery holder pre-loaded with another set of Lithiums and I'm worry free.

  48. #48
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    Re: Here we go... AGAIN... ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Doug, can you point me to a page of the lion battery module product? Is this new? Can't find it on your website? I'm searching for a new solution for the DF body!
    Yes, it is new.

    EJJI 10K Rechargeable Battery :: Capture Integration – Medium Format Digital Back Sales & Rental and Other Professional Photographic Equipment

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