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View Poll Results: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds on its promise?

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  • Never. I don't care about paying 10x as much for 10% more quality.

    16 17.39%
  • C'mon, D800 will never match DoF, dynamic range and microcontrast of my Phase One!

    34 36.96%
  • I'm into tech cams.Won't give up Rodesntocks & stitching, even if that luxury costs me 40k more!

    15 16.30%
  • Damn. I just sold off my Canon/Nikon gear to get into MFD!

    8 8.70%
  • If that Zeiss/Leica glass on the D800E performs as I think it should ... EBAY here I come!

    5 5.43%
  • I just preordered a D800E. Hell it's cheaper than that MFD lens I'm longing for!

    14 15.22%
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Thread: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

  1. #51
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    No personal anger at all. I bought a mfd kit fully knowing that 35mm digital will come up with higher MPX counts and better sensors. In the end we're talking about Sony and Canon here who have huge R&D budgets for their sensor progras. Medium format has only Dalsa left and the company that bought kodak's sensor business.

    The D7000 sensor with its dynamic range is a testament to the advancements in CMOS technology. I bought the mfd camera because I could afford it and wanted the best. So my answer is number one. I don't care about 35mm digital because I honestly think it is inferior. But I'm interested in microeconomic choices and whether Nikon will be able to capture market share in the mfd digital world.

    Regarding the argument that size matters: Yes it does, but only if all things being equal holds true. Here we have technology power houses such as Sony who might cram 100 megapixels in sensors by 2013 using organic sensor tech. They aggressively push the CMOS technology further and further. On the other hand we have the MFD players who are dependent on the sensor capabilities of smaller, specialized companies such as Dalsa. If sony leverages their sensor tech in their HD cams, cell phones and dslrs they can get a much higher ROI on ther R&D. So actually we have smaller sensors but we have probably a lot more R&D muscle behind that too. So possibly there might be a point where there is a 50MPX sensor from Sony that has higher dynamic range, lower noise, better color representation than the next 90MPX Dalsa.

    I'm not an engineer but I wouldn't underestimate the r&d aspect and economies of scale...
    I think you make an interesting point here . . . and I guess that the argument COULD relate to lenses as well . . . . Certainly the recent Sony / Zeiss lenses have been pretty good (whether good enough, we won't know until someone tries them on one of these sensors).

    However - back to your microeconomics argument - assuming that there is a desire/market for higher resolution I would have thought that the D800 would be good for the MF market - for every person who ditches their MF gear to get a D800 I would imagine there will be several who get a taste for higher resolution by using the D800 - and then realise that MF offers more. Certainly my perception of those who used the 5d/d3x/A900 suggests that to be the case.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Of course one gets fire when asking these question in a forum dominated by pros and wealthy enthusiasts who can afford a 40-50k imaging system. But it is childish to ask for the removal of the thread - it must be possible to discuss the introduction of consumer-priced 36 MPX systems in a medium format forum without making people angry.
    I guess I am the one you label as childish... for asking removal of thread... No, your post did not make me angry, I find your post very immature, no offense. It is not only for the constant tiring DSLR vs. MFDB debate but for the choices offered for the poll. And I do believe it would be proper to remove this thread. It does not belong in a mature audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    It's a very valid question in my view. If you take a look at this video:

    Nikon D800 and D800E: Hands On Preview - YouTube

    where the Nikon product manager presents the new D800E to the public, you will see that Nikon with the D800E squarely aims at the MF crowd. They mention medium format users many times.
    The obvious reason is same as seemingly the whole camera industry and media: to push sales and convince people to spend money. And why should they not want to win more customers over, more lens sales and other equipment. Now hang on, do we believe what they claim? Do they shoot their best equipment adds with DSLRs or medium format gear? Per what I recall reading somewhere Nikon uses Phase One for those... On other hand, if I was a pro, I would perhaps grab the D800, perhaps quicker to get job done and clients do not ask for more pixels...


    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    And it is also clear that people rationalize their investments. If one had spent 30k on an IQ140 system two months ago, having sold off a D3X and all Nikon lenses to fund the purchase, it would only be natural to defend one's purchasing decision staunchly. But in the back of one's head one might say to oneself: "That Nikon D800E wouldn't have been the worst of choices ... Damn."
    Actually I do not belong to pro or rich amateurs, and I sure could have used the $ in the bank at current. I simply enjoy and value image quality for my passionate hobby. I financed my AFi-II 12 and Hy6 system with sale of five camera systems, knowing that somewhere in 30s MP DSLRs would be announced, and safely and content at doing so knowing they would not measure up to my medium format gear. Am I surprised of the D800/E? No image quality looks substandard to also my prior 28MP Aptus 65. I am happy with Leaf, not trying rationalize. Why, if I wanted to I could sell my new gear and put $ in bank, no way. My current system offers me a wonderful system to use and image quality that surpass my expectations. It made me prematurely drop 4x5 film. Not only that, getting rid of so much gear makes me focus more on what I enjoy: photography, and no more upgrade, upgrade. The 80MP will last me for many years still... I am a very happy camper!

    Best regards,
    Anders

  3. #53
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    But don't you guys believe that there's an invisible Megapixel barrier where demand for high-end MFD will subside?
    No. Issue is ability of glass to utilize small pixel pitch. Right now there are maybe 2 Nikon lenses that will fully utilize the D800 pitch at optimal aperture that will likely be f5.6. After f8 you won't need the AA filter version to ameliorate moire as the lens limitations will do it for you.

    Second, your poll suggests MF users pay 10x for 10% more IQ -- not true. We pay more like 5x more for 2x more resolution and 2x better color and tonality; so IMHO your personal paradigm is skewed...

    Thank you all for keeping this civil
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    It's hilarious how every time there's a new DSLR this discussion starts all over again.

  5. #55
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    No personal anger at all. I bought a mfd kit fully knowing that 35mm digital will come up with higher MPX counts and better sensors. In the end we're talking about Sony and Canon here who have huge R&D budgets for their sensor progras. Medium format has only Dalsa left and the company that bought kodak's sensor business.

    The D7000 sensor with its dynamic range is a testament to the advancements in CMOS technology. I bought the mfd camera because I could afford it and wanted the best. So my answer is number one. I don't care about 35mm digital because I honestly think it is inferior. But I'm interested in microeconomic choices and whether Nikon will be able to capture market share in the mfd digital world.

    Regarding the argument that size matters: Yes it does, but only if all things being equal holds true. Here we have technology power houses such as Sony who might cram 100 megapixels in sensors by 2013 using organic sensor tech. They aggressively push the CMOS technology further and further. On the other hand we have the MFD players who are dependent on the sensor capabilities of smaller, specialized companies such as Dalsa. If sony leverages their sensor tech in their HD cams, cell phones and dslrs they can get a much higher ROI on ther R&D. So actually we have smaller sensors but we have probably a lot more R&D muscle behind that too. So possibly there might be a point where there is a 50MPX sensor from Sony that has higher dynamic range, lower noise, better color representation than the next 90MPX Dalsa.

    I'm not an engineer but I wouldn't underestimate the r&d aspect and economies of scale...
    Paul, I think it you who is under-estimating Teledyne Dalsa. Their R&D isn't dependent on consumer level imaging, it's funded by little enterprises like NASA, major Satellite Corporations, Medical applications, and various deep-pockets Industrial/Military complexes world-wide. I'd bet what we get to see in our MFDs is old tech to them by the time it trickles down to us. Remember years ago when Seitz wanted a 160 meg sensor for their 6 X 17 pano camera? It was Dalsa they went to. BTW, Dalsa also is a leader in CMOS technology.

    Will there be new advanced technology in future as you indicate ... of course. Whether it is essential technology one needs to turn ideas into photographs is another matter altogether. The notion of directly connecting tech advancements to creativity, and application of ones tools to express that creativity, is the elephant in the room few care to acknowledge. It's much easier to play engineer and equate the tools directly to results.

    Will Nikon capture MFD market share? Perhaps a little. I do think they will get the user that dreams of MFD, can't afford it or can't rationalize it from a purely practical POV ... so were never really prospects anyway. I do think it will cannibalize their own category. Possible users of the flagship units will seriously re-consider if they need or would use all the speedy features @ $6, 7 or 8K, when this is there with respectable features at 1/2 the cost or less.

    -Marc

  6. #56
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Something justpped into my mind:

    The D800 is Nikons strategy to sell many expensive new lenses.
    On the D4 and d700 and d3s all the old glass works fine.
    Now they sell the D800 for a low price, and after some weeks people will start to buy expensive new lenses which can deliver the resolution of the D800 sensor. Clever move.

  7. #57
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    As I recall, that Dalsa purchase was for around 300Million.
    those of you in the FD can estimate the annual volume of chips.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    One look at the Nikon D800 samples was all I needed to see that Nikon is barking up the wrong tree. It is very sharp, but the tonal resolution and punch in the blacks can't even match a P25+. I prefer the shadows from the D7000

    It seems people are getting over exited by the big numbers and claims of medium format quality.

    Here is a sample from the Nikon D800 at iso 100:



    http://chsvimg.nikon.com/lineup/dslr...1/img_04_l.jpg

    This is a good lighting situation to test a camera. Just one light. No fancy lighting to spruce things up.
    Looks dull and rather flat. Eyeballs are greyish and skin does not have a tonal rendition that makes skin luminous or rich.

    On the other hand the Canon 1D X sample files look very very good. Impressive improvement in the overall image quality. may not have the hyper resolution of a 60MP or 80MP but the overall image is terrific. Great blacks and very nice luminous skin tones.

    Personally I think that Canon has made the better choice. 18 MP is the sweet spot.
    At ISO 100 I always preferred my Canon 1ds files to my Canon 5D Mark II

    I am hoping to a little brother to the Canon 1D X running at 5/6 frames per second (or even less) but with stellar focusing and the same 18MP sensor.

    Canon is also developing a 50ish to 100ish f2 zoom with IS. IF it's the same quality of the 70 to 200 2.8L II it will be a lens I'd like for sure.

  9. #59
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Regarding the argument that size matters: Yes it does, but only if all things being equal holds true.
    Paul, technology is not a silver bullet. Light still has a wavelength. Photography is still light dependent. It is impossible to maintain the same image and object space between two formats. Size matters because things are not equal.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    No. Issue is ability of glass to utilize small pixel pitch. Right now there are maybe 2 Nikon lenses that will fully utilize the D800 pitch at optimal aperture that will likely be f5.6. After f8 you won't need the AA filter version to ameliorate moire as the lens limitations will do it for you.

    Second, your poll suggests MF users pay 10x for 10% more IQ -- not true. We pay more like 5x more for 2x more resolution and 2x better color and tonality; so IMHO your personal paradigm is skewed...

    Thank you all for keeping this civil
    2x better tonality and color in the mid tones and about 80X better quality in the deep shadows and and blacks.

    As far as lenses go I'd say the same applies to 80 MP sensors on MF. About the same dot pitch of the Nikon D800 sensor. However you have twice the real estate with the MF 80MP sensor... but in my opinion the photosites are too small. 80MP really needs to be a 6x7 or 6x8 sensor.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    No. Issue is ability of glass to utilize small pixel pitch. Right now there are maybe 2 Nikon lenses that will fully utilize the D800 pitch at optimal aperture that will likely be f5.6. After f8 you won't need the AA filter version to ameliorate moire as the lens limitations will do it for you.

    Second, your poll suggests MF users pay 10x for 10% more IQ -- not true. We pay more like 5x more for 2x more resolution and 2x better color and tonality; so IMHO your personal paradigm is skewed...

    Thank you all for keeping this civil
    Ok, I concede that the wording is unfortunate; I wanted to address those users who don't care about the price difference if they get the best quality available. However big that advantage maybe ... 10%, 20% ... 50% There are diminishing returns to money at one point if you consider image quality per dollar and some people just don't care about that.

    Lastly, all this is irrelevant if the end product is printed and one can't see a difference.

    I'm looking forward to LLs article where they pit the D800 against the 40MPX backs and compare printed results ...

  12. #62
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I replied the third option - "I'm into tech cams..."

    Surely the D800 is a nice camera and will make many happy but for me and my style of shooting it has nothing special to offer. I understand that final image quality is what most care about, but to me it is so important how my gear "feels" to get me inspired. This rarely happens with a plastic camera no matter the brand or capabilities. Coming from latest edition Canon 1Ds and 7 L lenses and switching to Alpa and Schneider is like night and day! No comparison! The way I work nowadays is more thoughtful and deliberate. At the end of the day this means in my case - fewer exposures and more keepers!
    This means that if (most probably) the new D800 sensor is better in all aspects compared to my Leaf Aptus II 5 - it does not rock my boat anyway!!!!
    Alpa FPS • MAX • TC | Alpagon 32Hr | Helvetar 75 | Schneider 120N | Leaf Aptus II 5 • Leaf Credo 60 | www.danlindberg.com
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  13. #63
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I'm sure there are many (here and elsewhere) that are looking forward to such print comparisons. As I just recently posted in the Nikon forums here on Getdpi, to quote...

    >>>"It will be interesting to see how the resulting D800e images will compare "head on" to medium format, especially to the current crop of 40MP models. No doubt the medium format manufacturers are well aware of the situation regarding competition and although it might take quite some time, I'm sure will respond by upping the ante, in making their entry level 40 MP backs (or cameras in the case of the 645D) competitive in both pricing structures, technology, and/or raising the MP level for these backs/cameras...all to increase the level of image quality output. Of course there are obvious differences between a 40MP MF backs & cameras vs. a 36MP 35mm DSLR, but those real and perceived differences are not always recognized by those who initially contemplate making a move from 35mm to MF and often only go simply by "the MP numbers". <<<

    Dave (D&A)

  14. #64
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Dpreview is full of threads like this, and they serve little purpose other than in reflecting the prejudices of those who start them. I don't think this was intended to be a serious debate about the respective merits of MF versus the new D800, but a thinly veiled attack on those who fit the profile of the first "poll" question, i.e. those who "...don't care about paying 10x as much for 10% more quality", - or to put it another way, rich stupid people.

    My view: close the thread. start another one on with none of the prejudices that infect this thread.

    Which is my last contribution to this sorry tale.
    Last edited by Quentin_Bargate; 8th February 2012 at 10:04.
    Quentin Bargate
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  15. #65
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I agree with Shashin ...

    IMO, higher end photographic purchases are often reflective of a skewed passionate priority as opposed to a mark of absolute wealth ...and while it is relative to personal income, it often is funded through denial of other things, as opposed to dump-trucks of discretionary income and no sacrifice at all.

    Some folks gave up long term collections of Leica M gear to fund a S2 and one or two lenses. I sold a complete collection of Hassey V gear that took me 15 years to assemble ... plus a 949 Scanner ... and poured it all back into MFD.

    One major thing to take into account is age. I'd suspect buyers of higher end gear are a bit older and have amassed "photographic wealth" as opposed to just income wealth. By initial shrewd buying and selling while trading upwards over years, it is inevitable that momentum builds a bank of photo funds. I just sold my M9 and 0.95 Noctilux, replaced it with a M9P and gorgeous black paint M50/1.4 ASPH ... with a cash difference that paid for a Hensel Porty L system, two Profoto D1 AIRs, and some modifiers. I sure the hell wouldn't have even dreamed of a Noctilux when I started out. Now, being retired and battered by the initial economic downturn, I HAVE to sell to buy, and I know I'm not alone in that boat.

    -Marc
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  16. #66
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Paul,

    I'm glad you posted this thread. I've owned the DF/ P45+, H4D/40/31. These cameras are ridiculously over priced! I also used the S2, but it too, is ridiculously over priced. It's also the ridiculous business model of these companies to render them obsolete or devalue them to price points that are insulting at best, even with so called upgrade paths. This new Nikon D800e, with no AA filter is an awesome approach to securing a market share that has left many MFD users feeling cheated. MFD is a specialized type of camera and has it's rightful place for certain applications, but for those who only print 16x20, or shoot sports, and the occasional landscape, this camera will be awesome!

    Many MFD owners may balk at this new camera, but it's only because they have to justify what they paid for their MFD!

  17. #67
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Many MFD owners may balk at this new camera, but it's only because they have to justify what they paid for their MFD!
    So now I am delusional? The great qualities I see in my work are not really there, I am just too embarrassed by what I paid to admit I am somehow wrong?

    As good as any argument I can think of.

  18. #68
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Paul,

    I'm glad you posted this thread. I've owned the DF/ P45+, H4D/40/31. These cameras are ridiculously over priced! I also used the S2, but it too, is ridiculously over priced. It's also the ridiculous business model of these companies to render them obsolete or devalue them to price points that are insulting at best, even with so called upgrade paths. This new Nikon D800e, with no AA filter is an awesome approach to securing a market share that has left many MFD users feeling cheated. MFD is a specialized type of camera and has it's rightful place for certain applications, but for those who only print 16x20, or shoot sports, and the occasional landscape, this camera will be awesome!

    Many MFD owners may balk at this new camera, but it's only because they have to justify what they paid for their MFD!
    To me it looks more like some (few) people want to justify why they do not use digital MF systems and balk at people who do use MF.

  19. #69
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnygoesdigital View Post
    Paul,

    (snip) ... Many MFD owners may balk at this new camera, but it's only because they have to justify what they paid for their MFD!
    Thank you for doing the thinking for me. Apparently, I am incapable of reasonable and rational decisions based on cost verses reward. I guess I need an arbitrator to be my guide.

    For a person that has a bug up his bum about MFD business models, etc., you sure have bought a lot of them Could it be that you bought more camera than you could afford or needed ? No, wait, I take that back ... I don't want to tell you how to think either.

    -Marc

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by D&A View Post
    I'm sure there are many (here and elsewhere) that are looking forward to such print comparisons. As I just recently posted in the Nikon forums here on Getdpi, to quote...

    >>>"It will be interesting to see how the resulting D800e images will compare "head on" to medium format, especially to the current crop of 40MP models. No doubt the medium format manufacturers are well aware of the situation regarding competition and although it might take quite some time, I'm sure will respond by upping the ante, in making their entry level 40 MP backs (or cameras in the case of the 645D) competitive in both pricing structures, technology, and/or raising the MP level for these backs/cameras...all to increase the level of image quality output. Of course there are obvious differences between a 40MP MF backs & cameras vs. a 36MP 35mm DSLR, but those real and perceived differences are not always recognized by those who initially contemplate making a move from 35mm to MF and often only go simply by "the MP numbers". <<<

    Dave (D&A)
    Yes, the 40 meg cameras could be made to be more competitive ... they could return to their roots and put a 35mm sized sensor in their cameras

    However, the fact still remains ... SIZE MATTERS!

    All the Fairy Dust wishes and Unicorn Dreams spread across this thread and others like it won't alter the laws of physics. Wish they did, I'd be driving a $20K 700hp Porche that got 100 miles to a gallon and could haul all my lighting gear ... instead of a 7 year old Volvo SUV

    -Marc

    (BTW, any print shoot out has to be done by Jack and Guy ... Jack's prints are breathtaking, so I know he can get the best out of any camera).
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Dpreview is full of threads like this, and they serve little purpose other than in reflecting the prejudices of those who start them. I don't think this was intended to be a serious debate about the respective merits of MF versus the new D800, but a thinly veiled attack on those who fit the profile of the first "poll" question, i.e. those who "...don't care about paying 10x as much for 10% more quality", - or to put it another way, rich stupid people.

    My view: close the thread. start another one on with none of the prejudices that infect this thread.

    Which is my last contribution to this sorry tale.
    Quentin, why would I want start a "thinly veiled attack" on those who fit the first poll question? Why would I want to do this? I myself fit the first question so I would have to have a split personality? Again and again I have to reiterate that I don't intend to attack anyone and again and again you feel "attacked", exclaim for censorship and closure of the thread? If you feel so uneasy, why do you bother in the first place?

    Please excuse me saying this: But could it be that it is more the case that you think that I see you as a "rich enthusiast" and don't like to be seen like that? ... I don't get it and believe me that whilst posting this thread in no split-second I thought of anyone specifically and I never intended a personal attack. And please, so that that point is also out of the way: I don't hold a grudge against rich people or photo enthusiasts with hardcore gear; I myself am not too bad off and can pretty much buy myself and system I want and do it for fun.

    I also in no way said that rich people are stupid. With many things in life the last 10% in quality cost way more than the first 90%. For that last drop of quality you always pay a lot, not only in high-end photography. There are people who will always want that last 10% and the first poll answer was directed towards that demographic. I believe that there are quite a few users who are quality oriented to the extent that they only want the best and that's perfectly fine, that's one specific customer segment the mfd companies cater to. You made that connection, not me. I would be more than interested in seeing your honest opinion about the new Nikon and how it will pan out for MFD if the quality is great.

    To make it clear: I'm just interested in the business aspect of the high-end mfd market. I'm asking myself if there will be a point where Phase/Hassy will loose market share because of incredibly powerful consumer cameras that deliver professional quality or at least quality hitherto reserved for far more expensive outfits.

    I believe that in the last years we could witness an incredible democratization of the tools and now it is possible to call oneself an "architectural photographer" with a 5D MKII and a TSE 17mm ... that's like less than 4k to start a new business. For most uses the imagery produced by the 5D will suffice, I mean 6 years ago architectural photgraphers where also shooting with P25s and never complained. (Shashin, I already hear you see it's all about the image etc. and that I confuse things here. All I'm asking is if there's a point at which the CaNikons are so good that they capture market shate from PhamiyaBlad)

    So in my view a 36 MPX camera that shoots 4fps and has live view can possibly be a subsitute to a H4D-40 or IQ140 and it interests me how many people start thinking about their investments in the eye of such high-resolution cameras coming out at mere 3k.

    If you look at the Nikon samples you can also see that the architectural photos are made by a Hasselblad Master ... that usually shoots with a tech cam ...

    So what can I gather so far from this thread? Apparently the vast majority's opinion seems to be that the D800 cannot be compared to a medium format camera even if a compareable amount of megapixels now exists on the lower end. And apparently almost no one seems to reevaluate their mfd systems.

    But the question that really is interesting now is when the first real-world comparisons will come. When we see the results compared in print. I'm looking forward to the first articles and I'm not sure if the difference will be so great as perceived now by the owners of mfd gear...

    So again, there's no harm intendend and I hope that the critics of this thread could contribute constructively and not destructively.
    Last edited by Paul Spinnler; 8th February 2012 at 13:36.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    To me it looks more like some (few) people want to justify why they do not use digital MF systems and balk at people who do use MF.
    Oh,oh ... someone has finally said what many are thinking.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    ....
    But the question that really is interesting now is when the first real-world comparisons will come. When we see the results compared in print. I'm looking forward to the first articles and I'm not sure if the difference will be so great as perceived now by the owners of mfd gear...
    ...
    real-world experience and results I find much more interestig than this theoretic discussion.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Oh,oh ... someone has finally said what many are thinking.
    T-Streng,

    so in your opinion one cannot ask mfd users the question of what they think of the new 36 MPX Nikon camera, and in addition to that, if they consider consolidating gear or regret their purchase? Can't someone ask mfd users what they think of a product that is squarely aimed at the mfd demographic with its variant D800E, without having "issues" such as "gear envy" or whatever you are refering to? Ok, I get it, some feel they way the poll answers have been formulated makes this thread aggressive, a "thinly veiled attack" or whatever. I just wanted to make a clear point by formulating directly and I'm sorry for not having consulted my college textbook about how to correctly poll without influencing the respondents.

    So this being said, it would be great if people could honestly say what they think of the new camera and not discuss about the way a poll answer has been formulated ... please!

    Next big round of discussions will be when either Reichmann, Dubovoy or Chambers will post comparisons with MFD kit and will say that they almost couldn't tell a difference when printing the images out. I'm can already see the firestorm on the horizon!

    From what I can glean so far most mfd users in this forum are perfectly happy with their gear and don't consider the Nikon a real alternative. That's fine and actually I thought it would pan out like that.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Paul, I think it you who is under-estimating Teledyne Dalsa. Their R&D isn't dependent on consumer level imaging, it's funded by little enterprises like NASA, major Satellite Corporations, Medical applications, and various deep-pockets Industrial/Military complexes world-wide. I'd bet what we get to see in our MFDs is old tech to them by the time it trickles down to us. Remember years ago when Seitz wanted a 160 meg sensor for their 6 X 17 pano camera? It was Dalsa they went to. BTW, Dalsa also is a leader in CMOS technology.

    Will there be new advanced technology in future as you indicate ... of course. Whether it is essential technology one needs to turn ideas into photographs is another matter altogether. The notion of directly connecting tech advancements to creativity, and application of ones tools to express that creativity, is the elephant in the room few care to acknowledge. It's much easier to play engineer and equate the tools directly to results.

    Will Nikon capture MFD market share? Perhaps a little. I do think they will get the user that dreams of MFD, can't afford it or can't rationalize it from a purely practical POV ... so were never really prospects anyway. I do think it will cannibalize their own category. Possible users of the flagship units will seriously re-consider if they need or would use all the speedy features @ $6, 7 or 8K, when this is there with respectable features at 1/2 the cost or less.

    -Marc
    Granted, you're right, shouldn't underestimate Dalsa either. I'm waiting when they finally make commercially available sensors in the 6x7 format ... they can do that!

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    T-Streng,

    so in your opinion one cannot ask mfd users the question of what they think of the new 36 MPX Nikon camera, and in addition to that, if they consider consolidating gear or regret their purchase? Can't someone ask mfd users what they think of a product that is squarely aimed at the mfd demographic with its variant D800E, without having "issues" such as "gear envy" or whatever you are refering to?

    It would be great if people could honestly say what they think of the new camera and not discuss about the way a poll answer has been formulated ... please!
    Paul,
    for sure its a good and valid question. And the D800E is an interesting camera for sure. However in my opinion if one asks the question and people answer they believe the camera will be no replacement for a MFD-camera one should accept the answer and not believe that people say this just to defend/justify something.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, the 40 meg cameras could be made to be more competitive ... they could return to their roots and put a 35mm sized sensor in their cameras

    However, the fact still remains ... SIZE MATTERS!

    All the Fairy Dust wishes and Unicorn Dreams spread across this thread and others like it won't alter the laws of physics. Wish they did, I'd be driving a $20K 700hp Porche that got 100 miles to a gallon and could haul all my lighting gear ... instead of a 7 year old Volvo SUV

    -Marc

    (BTW, any print shoot out has to be done by Jack and Guy ... Jack's prints are breathtaking, so I know he can get the best out of any camera).
    Yes size does matter, but because you can do something it doesnt mean it is commercially viable. Right now, enough people are willing to pay 40k for a new Phase back in medium format size, because the perceived and felt advantages over 35mm seem to justify that move for enough people to make an attractive market to do business in. But at one point it may be that CaNikon is so good that the equation doesn't work out anymore.

    For a long time film had beend considered the pinnacle for quality. Nothing trumps film for dynamic range, resolution etc. has been said during the 1990s and up until a few years ago. Now look at Kodak, that american icon that is no more. Maybe that will happen to medium format digital?

    One could develop a 6x7 sensor if enough money would be paid to Dalsa. Why does nobody do it? Imagine an 100 MPX back the size of a 6x7 frame. Because it is not commercially viable? Or because MFD in 645 is "good enough"?

    Or what about a sensor with 100 MPX in 4x5? Wouldn't that bee "fat pixels" that could create incredibly awesome image quality? Again, why does no one do it?

    I think it is valid to pose the question if D800E makes a "good enough" replacement for at least entry-point MFD. I personally believe after havin seen the samples that there's still a world of difference, but that's my view and I haven't seen real-world print-outs in a shootout setting bewteen 40mpx backs and the D800E.

    You're right, given equal technology, the bigger sensor will always be better.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Paul,
    for sure its a good and valid question. And the D800E is an interesting camera for sure. However in my opinion if one asks the question and people answer they believe the camera will be no replacement for a MFD-camera one should accept the answer and not believe that people say this just to defend/justify something.
    T-Streng, I accept the answers. It is just that some people were attacking the thread from the start for itself and suggesting other motives by the poster that just aren't there. I answered to those posts in detail but didn't intend to expatiate to this point and degree from the beginning and thus start a contentious discussion about gear envy or whatever.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    This thread is three months early.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    No, this is the pre-game show.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I think this thread is going a little thin, so rather than hear (read) argue, over what can ultimately be rephrased into a more constructive question is, CAN most of you take a Nikon D800E and Nikon's offering of lenses and produce photos for your clients and for them (not you) to be happy and for you to get paid? (satisfying the assignment)
    Well can you?

    I agree with Marc, SIZE matters
    M9 is lighter, RZII is big and heavy, and P1 IQ180 needs fatter wallets ....

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    T-Streng, I accept the answers. It is just that some people were attacking the thread from the start for itself and suggesting other motives by the poster that just aren't there. I answered to those posts in detail but didn't intend to expatiate to this point and degree from the beginning and thus start a contentious discussion about gear envy or whatever.
    Come on Paul, did you honestly think the way your poll wording was structured would solicit passive responses? Or that making mind-reading statements of MFD users hidden motivations would go unanswered?

    Do you actually believe that MFD users are threatened by yet another foray into "resolution land" by a 35mm DSLR? You don't seem to be, so why would anyone else?

    I mean, look at the endless Get Dpi threads advising people to take care when considering MFD. How specialized it is and how one needs to determine real need before stepping into such an expensive decision like this.

    In that same spirit of honest sharing of experience, I'd personally advise those that want MFD IQ not to get overly excited about this camera as a cheap equalizer ... it is simply chasing a dream, and the camera maker dearly wants you to believe it to be a dream come true. If however, it does fit your needs, as determined by you and you alone, then Nikon has made it possible. Good for them.

    -Marc
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    For example, medium format was dominating wedding photography at one point. Now it's all about D3s, D700s and Canon 5Ds at those weddings.
    And now it's wedding shooters who complain about file sizes and how they don't need or want 36MP. Strange bunch those folks.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    To clear things up, I intended to address following mfd user demographics (my segmentation, feel free to change it or give inputs, just my gut feeling of what users there are):

    1. Never. I don't care about paying 10x as much for 10% more quality.

    These are people that want only the best that technology can offer and don't care if means spending a lot more than a more common professional solution such as a 35mm digital system. Real-world efficacy as a tool is not the prime motivator, and money is no object or of subordinated importance here, no judgement intended. Classic example would be the the wealthy enthusiast who always buys the best of the best in all what he does or just quality-oriented consumers that appreciate the best technology or that want something not everyone has.

    2. C'mon, D800 will never match DoF, dynamic range and microcontrast of my Phase One!

    The decision to shoot MFD is based on clear-cut perceived/felt advantages and not a per se decision to shoot only the best. This user tried extensively different camera systems went to a dealer etc. and sees the special something only mfd files have.


    3. I'm into tech cams.Won't give up Rodesntocks & stitching, even if that luxury costs me 40k more!

    Tech cams afford unmatched quality in wide-angle photography, enable stitching for extreme resolutions and make up for a view-camera-like experience in the field. Especially high-end architectural photography benefits from tech-cam photography and there's no subsitute for this in 35mm except the TS lenses. Basically same as 2. but with a focus on the special tech cam experience that just doesn't exist in 35mm.

    4. Damn. I just sold off my Canon/Nikon gear to get into MFD!

    Anyone moving up to mfd because they want either more resolution or that special something of mfd and that just sold all their beloved CaNikon gear and kind of regrets not having the possibility to shoot all that well-known glass on that new sexy Nikon. It was hard selling that 70-200 2.8 IS that made so many beautiful portraits, wonder how that one would fare in 36 MPX.

    5. If that Zeiss/Leica glass on the D800E performs as I think it should ... EBAY here I come!

    The practical guys. Those who know that only the end result counts and not the highlight recovery slider in Capture One. In the end, printing that MFD file out in normal sizes (35mm digital such as a Leica M9 can go 40 inch easily) on that Epson or downrezzing that wedding portrait for the client's dvd is a great equaliser. Basically, if the D800E satisfies the client, no need for fancy mfd, and all the small headaches it can entail such as expensive upgrade paths (massive devaluation) or gear insurance. Great handling, speed, cheap costs of entry for great end results. Live view. This user doesn't compromise on quality, that's why he got into medium format digital in the first place. But it was a long road and money is an issue. They know that great glass is great glass and a Leica 100 Elmarit-R with that profoto Acute pack makes a new Nikon sing and interesting all over again and all of a sudden the idea of selling off that Hassy before Photokina arrives and especially before the newly announced systems devalue the secondary market price of one's gear by incredible amounts seems a lot more tempting. And hey, 4fps is great in comparison to 1fps. Love that snappyness in conjunction with the peace of mind that even being robbed of one's gear at the next outdoor shooting isn't going to cost one's arm and leng.

    6. I just preordered a D800E. Hell it's cheaper than that MFD lens I'm longing for!

    As a matter of fact the D800E costs less than say a new leaf shutter lens on a Phase. That's chump change for those accustomed to medium format prices. Even upgrading a P65+ to finally get a decent screen (and a little more bells and whistles I know) to an IQ160 ... costs multiple times as much as that Nikon. So for those people the saying holds true: horses for courses or outright: double system, here I come! because actually the D800 is so cheap that it's not a question of alternative systems but more of fancy. In the end, what Nikon has done here IS something special. Now we have the resolution-champ of the 35mm camp not coming in at 10k like it was the case in the past (D3x and 1 Ds MKIII) but at a mere 3k. That is the traditional price point of enthusiast camera gear or midrange pro-cams such as the venerable D700, or the 5D lineage from Canon. By introducing 36 MPX at 3k, Nikon is coming in so cheap that it's also tempting and so easy to hit that pre-order button on Amazon. For those accustomed to the PhaMiyaBlad price list this price is really easy. Leica users can smile even more because their lenses cost more than twice that little nikon camera or for one Leica-S lens they can get a whole new system with lenses.
    Last edited by Paul Spinnler; 8th February 2012 at 15:19.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Thank you for doing the thinking for me. Apparently, I am incapable of reasonable and rational decisions based on cost verses reward. I guess I need an arbitrator to be my guide.

    For a person that has a bug up his bum about MFD business models, etc., you sure have bought a lot of them Could it be that you bought more camera than you could afford or needed ? No, wait, I take that back ... I don't want to tell you how to think either.

    -Marc
    Actually, I still own the Hasselblad, I did almost purchase the S2 though, but couldn't justify a slightly bigger sensor than 35mm. My comment was meant to be humorous, but thank you for making my point. MFD does 80% of what I need, but a 36mp with no AA filter and only $3000, that's just good business.
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    It's fairly common for weddings to be multi media events now. With this Nikon, you can shoot 36 mp pics and switch to cinematic HD without switching cameras! The versatility of this Nikon is welcomed and perhaps RAW images will be available to compare. I'm sure MFD is safe...for now, but this will inevitability create competition which is good for the industry.

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Actually the most interesting part in this thread is which emotions it´s raising ! The camera is not even out, only few samples to be seen and the MF people go to defense mode, the deniers state their everlasting loyalty for MF,...... a lot of fun to read.

    This march the thing will be in the shops and then people will start shooting it. This discussion now is a bit like talking about to teach a tuareg in the middle of the sahara how to swim.....

    One thing- I think I would not buy it ..... because I think the red plastic application on the grip is extremely cheap looking, this was fashionable 30 years ago when colani designed the F3, but hey time has changed............

    regards
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    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I don't think any MF user posting in this thread has been 'defensive'. In fact I think that the responses from people have been thoughtful and considered.

    The simple fact of the matter is that 35mm CMOS technology allows for a bunch of things to happen in terms of on camera gizmos that CD tech does not. If you want the 'advantages' of CMOS you buy one of these tools and use it. If you want the advantages of CCD - you do likewise.

    The whole notion of selling this to buy that - leaves aside the fact that people can buy both and use them for their purposes.

    I just don't get the either or argument implicit in the questions and arguments.

    As for "silly rich people". You know apart from reality TV shows in the US which depict the frightfully awful housewives of this or that city - I haven't met too many silly rich people in my life - typically they are a bit smarter in their decision making than not.

    The statement is in fact just as offensive as the statement - "silly poor people" and just as irrelevant to the issue of photographic tools.

    Pete
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Paul,

    I think your intention was admirable, and thought provoking, and last I checked the heading at the top says, "GetDPI - digital imaging workshops", nothing indicates it's MFD only, but look at your poll questions. The number 1 answer so far, is indicative of the responses you've got. Most here have a passion for photography, regardless of equipment or budget. Some are more humble and modest than others, but what is certain, is that you've stirred the pot! This is good because it creates debate which always leads to ideas and individual thought, and thus, choice. Keep up the good work!

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    To me it looks more like some (few) people want to justify why they do not use digital MF systems and balk at people who do use MF.
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Oh,oh ... someone has finally said what many are thinking.
    +2 . . . . certainly seems like that to me . . and I don't use MF, and I haven't got a Nikon; so I don't have a position to defend!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    One thing- I think I would not buy it ..... because I think the red plastic application on the grip is extremely cheap looking, this was fashionable 30 years ago when colani designed the F3, but hey time has changed............
    Ah Stefan - the crux of the matter!

    Paul . . .Like Johnny I think your intentions were honourable . . . however, when you're in a hole . . . stop digging

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    "When you're in a hole; stop digging" is more honoured in the breach than in the observance.
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    I don't think any MF user posting in this thread has been 'defensive'. In fact I think that the responses from people have been thoughtful and considered.

    The simple fact of the matter is that 35mm CMOS technology allows for a bunch of things to happen in terms of on camera gizmos that CD tech does not. If you want the 'advantages' of CMOS you buy one of these tools and use it. If you want the advantages of CCD - you do likewise.

    The whole notion of selling this to buy that - leaves aside the fact that people can buy both and use them for their purposes.

    I just don't get the either or argument implicit in the questions and arguments.

    As for "silly rich people". You know apart from reality TV shows in the US which depict the frightfully awful housewives of this or that city - I haven't met too many silly rich people in my life - typically they are a bit smarter in their decision making than not.

    The statement is in fact just as offensive as the statement - "silly poor people" and just as irrelevant to the issue of photographic tools.

    Pete
    So any POV other than the OPs is defensive according to Mr. Inflammatory Rhetoric.

    Your response was right on Peter. Just because I have a MFD, doesn't mean a 35mm isn't the better choice from time to time. I use my M9 more than MFD ... but make way more money with the latter than the former. Frankly, the 35mm gear is harder to justify than the MFD stuff ... even $3K along with a bundle for decent lenses is not easily justified from a financial perspective.

    -Marc

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Agreed Marc.

    For me an amateur - I stopped at 40 megapixels in MF land and cant see any benefit for more than 16-20 in 35mm land. I want to learn to get the most out of my gear in a proper studio environment now -and that means all the cash I wish to spend goes into lighting and construction..


    lighting - now that is a scary investment trip and another world of its own.

    Pete

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I think that one has to be very firm on one's decisions. If I, after more than 20 years of photography, need a MF or a Nikon D800, is my absolute decision and don't need to declare to no body or hesitate about it.
    Right now, after year and half of savings, I'm going for a MF camera and I'm not looking sideways with the new Dslrs. I'm glad that there is a new Nikon 36mp because it'll push competition among camera brands and technologies for them, but I'm firm on my decision because I know the differences and I know my clients need that quality and size for billboards. ACH

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    If you remove ego from the equation and base the purchasing decision on sound business principles then the question answers itself.

    If the D800 delivers the goods at a fraction of the cost it would be bad business to not head for the MF exit. Those are two mighty big ifs though and as I always say "it's the poetry not the tool"

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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    To me a "system" is so much more than megapixels, lenses, even print quality. It can simply be a function of how any individual best creates images.

    For example, my rate of keepers is much higher when I'm using (a) a tripod (b) a high megapixel back that requires extreme care in focussing (c) the very best lens for the job and (d) a relaxed contemplative attitude. For me, a large and often cumbersome apparatus brings out my best (IMHO) work, irrespective of image resolution, tonality and ultimate print quality.

    Do I do as well with a dslr? In a word, no - it's not the gear, it's just me. Sure, I use a dslr for active wildlife because it's better suited to that task, but for landscapes I just don't produce as many winners. Is it the gear? No - it's my approach. If I took all the same pains with a top quality dslr as I do with mf, would I like the results as much? No - because I'm afraid that if I HAD used the mf, the results would have been just a tad better. And I always want the very best I can get even if it isn't that good by other people's standards. (And it's often not!)

    The point I'm trying to make is that photographers' styles and personality often lead them to do better work with one sort of system as opposed to another - regardless of pixel count and print quality.

    You can't separate the tool from the character of the user. Ansel Adams and a Leica? Cartier Bresson and an 8 by 10?

    There's a psychology at work here that supersedes equipment minutiae. At least, for me.

    Bill
    Bill CB

    www.billcaulfeild-browne.ca
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  47. #97
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Marc,

    My tone and intent while writing these comments was droll at best, and nothing more than that. But it's also one of honest opinion and experience. The saying, "you get what you paid for", isn't always true in MFD, at least for me. Without even capturing 100 images, my MFD was on the fritz, just like the other two MFD cameras that followed. My Canon 1Ds however, never once had issues in 10,000 captures, and I sold it for a logical upgrade to MFD. Although, I think I finally have a great H model, each has its rightful place in my business. I certainly won't bring a MFD to cover the Superbowl, that's the Nikon's territory.
    Soon the D800e will be available for me to shoot, and i'll post some RAW images here with no manipulation or adjustments. As I mentioned before MFD has its purpose. Recently I was contacted by a producer from ABC Television, who wanted to purchase one of my photographs they saw in a magazine. One of the prints made from that photo was over 4x3 feet (1.2 x 1 meters). Of all the photographs they could have chosen, it was the MFD image. I'm grateful because i'm not sure my current 35mm FF would have held up to that increase in dimensions. But now Nikon might make that possible at a fraction of the investment - I'd like to at least try.
    Certain photography will always benefit from MFD over any 35mm, in a particular situation, but the slight promise of both formats getting ever so closer, is tantalizing, and exciting for digital photography as a whole.
    Perhaps I should have put a smiley face next to my first comment, so people won't be so offended. Come 'on it's just photography
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  48. #98
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, the 40 meg cameras could be made to be more competitive ... they could return to their roots and put a 35mm sized sensor in their cameras

    However, the fact still remains ... SIZE MATTERS!

    All the Fairy Dust wishes and Unicorn Dreams spread across this thread and others like it won't alter the laws of physics. Wish they did, I'd be driving a $20K 700hp Porche that got 100 miles to a gallon and could haul all my lighting gear ... instead of a 7 year old Volvo SUV

    -Marc

    (BTW, any print shoot out has to be done by Jack and Guy ... Jack's prints are breathtaking, so I know he can get the best out of any camera).

    Agree Marc...size matters and I'm not referring to MP but sensor size. Law of physics cannot be changed and those that are well versed in medium format digital should certainly see the obvious differences between a MF 40MP back/camera with a superb performing lens vs. the 36MP D800 with an equally good lens, especially with regards to large format printing. Obviously improved electronics and advances in chip design has certainly gone a long way in making a camera like the D800 possible with what will most certainly will be notable performance.

    I think what surprises me at this early stage is most know that the D3x required not only the best possible lenses and exacting technique to extract the performance the camera was capable of, but many lenses tried on the D3x performed sub par. With the higher resolution of the D800, I hear less of these concerns than ever before, as though miraculously, Nikon has somehow circumvented the need to address these concerns to a great extent. Some I feel will be so elated with increased file size that they will overlook the obvious....namely how much they are missing (image quality wise) by not heeding to what's needed in order to bring out the best from this body. Time will tell as the saying goes.

    Dave (D&A)

  49. #99
    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    This is the silliest set of almost unrelated leading questions I have ever read on this forum.
    I am tempted just to delete the whole damn thing and certainly won't answer the poll to add to the silliness.

    Honestly I buy a lot of tools from cameras to planer knives, so I really don't get what all the fuss is all about.

    Ya get what ya want because it fills a need.

    Or ya get what ya want need or no need just because ya want it.

    I understand both points of view.

    Jeez, it is just a freaking 35mm format dslr with the same lenses today as they sold yesterday.

    -bob

    of course I ordered a couple, but as I said I DO buy a lot of tools.
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  50. #100
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    Re: POLL: Will you sell your MFD gear if the D800 holds good on its promise?

    I will answer as someone who doesn't have a horse in the race. I have neither MF gear or Nikon gear. Right now I have a Sony A900 with Leica glass and my partner shoots Canon. We have two very different markets that we shoot for, one of which we are trying to get in that is split between bottom feeders with Photoshop skills and one or two high end offerings. We will always have DSLR gear for video production, though to be honest right now I would rather ditch that for dedicated video cameras.

    We tend to shoot in very high contrast situations. Sometimes the lighting can be controlled with strobes, other times not. While resolution is nice, dynamic range, tonality, accurate colors and files that work up well in post processing are more important. We were discussing the D800e today and decided that we will be adding a tech camera of some sort -- partly for image quality, partly for market differentiation -- but a D800 or Sony A99 may well take the place of Phamia body and lenses.

    We all know that megapixels only tell part of the story. To get the best images you need the best lenses, and the cost of high end 35 mm glass is getting pretty high, really it is approaching parity with Mamiya D glass. Where DSLR still wins, at least in my opinion, is when you need to move fast but when quality still matters, and that is why I am excited about this next generation of cameras.

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