Contax 645 vs Mamiya 645

[ondebanks]

However the Mamiya 645 AFD I, Mamiya 645 AFD II and Mamiya AFD III, as well as the Phase One 645AF all support film.

Of these, the most "complete" film shooter is the AFD (AFD I) - as it has a mechanical "T" mode, for unlimited long exposures on film without battery drain (the Contax can do this as well, but it requires a mechanical cable release). Sadly, the "T" mode was dropped in the AFDII and later bodies.

Re. the original question. I'm really surprised that no-one has yet mentioned what to me is the most obvious "plus" of the Contax over the Mamiya - interchangeable viewfinders. You can put a WLF on the Contax, and still have built-in spot metering. Then again, the simple WLF is very pricey - when they show up, they can go for more than a used Mamiya 645AFD body!

Price is an issue in general with Contax vs. Mamiya (especially used Mamiya). Contax stuff seems to cost 1.3x, 1.5x or even 2x the equivalent Mamiya stuff. Sometimes there is an additional factor which can partly explain this (e.g. the Contax 80/2 has AF, the Mamiya 80/1.9 doesn't). Sometimes there isn't any technical reason for the price difference, other than Contax branding (e.g. Contax 45/2.8 AF vs. Mamiya 45/2.8 AF; Kodak Proback 645 for Contax vs the Kodak Proback 645 back for Mamiya).

In principle, my design aesthetics lean towards the dedicated dials and levers of the Contax over the multifunction buttons, scrollwheels and LCD of the Mamiya body. However, the Mamiya approach does allow more refinement in the settings. For example, there are only so many exposure time settings you can fit on a dedicated dial like the one on the Contax. Want to use a 10, 15, 20, or 30 second exposure? With the Contax, you must time it yourself on B. With the Mamiya AFD, you just dial it in exactly. If you need consistent long exposures - say for panos or scientific/astro shooting - how consistent are your body's reflexes in timing and terminating a B exposure on the Contax? Similarly, the Mamiya allows a range of 13 different self-timer delays between 3 and 60 seconds; the Contax dial has just 2 (2 and 10 sec). Bracketing on the Mamiya is in 0.3, 0.5, 0.7 or 1.0 steps; just 0.5 or 1.0 steps on the Contax. The LCD backlighting button is very handy when shooting the Mamiya on a tripod in dark conditions; with the Contax you have to rely on the viewfinder readout, or use a torch to see the dials or filmback status. These are the functional prices you pay for the purity of the Contax design.

Ray

 

[Audii-Dudii]

For example, there are only so many exposure time settings you can fit on a dedicated dial like the one on the Contax. Want to use a 10, 15, 20, or 30 second exposure? With the Contax, you must time it yourself on B. With the Mamiya AFD, you just dial it in exactly. If you need consistent long exposures - say for panos or scientific/astro shooting - how consistent are your body's reflexes in timing and terminating a B exposure on the Contax?

Actually, Ray, the Contax will do exposures as long as 32 seconds without having to go to "B" mode. While it's true the shutter-speed dial only goes to 8 seconds, if you need a longer exposure, you can then use the separate 1/3-stop exposure-compensation dial to take this all the way out to 32 seconds. Only at that point do you have to switch to "B" mode, break out the cable release, and Kapture Group long-exposure controller box, and cover the contacts between the back and body with a piece of paper or tape, all of which typically takes me less than a minute.

And if you are using exposures longer than 32 seconds, I find starting and stopping them manually can easily be done to within one second, especially if you're using a Phase One plus-series back with the built-in timer that's visible on the back's LCD even when it's pitch black outside.

As you know, I do quite a lot of long-exposure night photography with my Contax outfit and I personally don't find long exposures to be difficult at all.

Oh, and you don't need the costly Contax waist-level finder if you have a decent medium-format loupe handy. Although I do have a waist-level finder (bought for only $189 on eBay, thank you very much!), I much prefer to use my Mamiya 3X 645-format loupe, as it's bigger, brighter, and has less distortion than the Contax finder. You just hold it on top of the mounting rails and adjust the focus as appropriate ... works great and isn't very costly, either, as NOS loupes regularly turn up on eBay for $150 or less.

 

[fotografz]

+1 for the Contax 645. :thumbup:

I had the entire system prior to moving to Hasselblad H ... and I also had a Mamiya 645 system with a Leaf Aptus 75s back.

Not to mince words, I never took to the Mamiya camera, and much preferred the Contax 645. I think the Contax 645 and a Phase One back are a marriage made in heaven ... they even look like they belong together.

No comparison in lenses unless you pony up for a DF and mostly Schneider optics. The CZ-120/4 macro was the best ever until Leica made the 120/2.5 Macro for the S2. The CZ-55mm is a sleeper of an optic with not only excellent rear Bokeh, but the most beautiful front OOF areas I've ever seen on any lens. Get a Nam-1 adapter and add a 110/2 FE for superb character portraits. 80/2 is great, and the 40 and 140 are also excellent with that Zeiss color and character. The 350/4 APO is to die for.

Contax 645 is much easier to travel with compared to the Mamiya 645 because the Prism detaches making it easier to pack more compactly.

AF is slow in low light, but you have to get a much more modern MFD camera to change that anyway = $$$$$$

In fact the AF and all leaf shutter lenses are the two reasons I moved to the H camera ... other wise I'd still be shooting the Contax ... at least until the S2 came along

-Marc

 

[ondebanks]

Actually, Ray, the Contax will do exposures as long as 32 seconds without having to go to "B" mode. While it's true the shutter-speed dial only goes to 8 seconds, if you need a longer exposure, you can then use the separate 1/3-stop exposure-compensation dial to take this all the way out to 32 seconds. Only at that point do you have to switch to "B" mode, break out the cable release, and Kapture Group long-exposure controller box, and cover the contacts between the back and body with a piece of paper or tape, all of which typically takes me less than a minute.

And if you are using exposures longer than 32 seconds, I find starting and stopping them manually can easily be done to within one second, especially if you're using a Phase One plus-series back with the built-in timer that's visible on the back's LCD even when it's pitch black outside.

As you know, I do quite a lot of long-exposure night photography with my Contax outfit and I personally don't find long exposures to be difficult at all.

Oh, and you don't need the costly Contax waist-level finder if you have a decent medium-format loupe handy. Although I do have a waist-level finder (bought for only $189 on eBay, thank you very much!), I much prefer to use my Mamiya 3X 645-format loupe, as it's bigger, brighter, and has less distortion than the Contax finder. You just hold it on top of the mounting rails and adjust the focus as appropriate ... works great and isn't very costly, either, as NOS loupes regularly turn up on eBay for $150 or less.

You've come up with two excellent solutions to issues there. So you set the body manually to 8 seconds, and then dial in +whatever (up to +2) stops of exposure compensation? Very clever - that's not in the user manual or any other Contax resource I've come across!

Actually, you've given me an idea - I'll have to check my 645AFD this evening to see if it also can use exposure compensation to exceed its nominal manual timed limit (30 sec).

The Mamiya loupe is also a great idea. I did the same some years ago with a quality multicoated loupe (4x Horizon) - better than the WLFs on my 6x6 cameras. The only issue is how well the loupe sits in the available top-plate space, so it's nice to know that the Mamiya 645 loupe fits well on the Contax.

Ray

 

[ondebanks]

Well, I tried it. Set my 645AFD to M, 30 seconds, and some +ve exposure comp. Each time the camera took a 30 second exposure, exactly, ignoring the compensation.

I'm not at all surprised; it stands to reason really. Exposure compensation is about over-riding what the AE meter thinks. Why would you want to over-ride what you have manually set yourself anyway?

So it was either genius or ineptitude which led to Contax linking exposure compensation to their Manual shutter speeds. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - genius!

Ray

 

[Audii-Dudii]

So it was either genius or ineptitude which led to Contax linking exposure compensation to their Manual shutter speeds. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - genius!

Actually, I think one or both of us has misunderstood the other. If you manually set the shutter speed of the Contax body at 8 seconds, then that's exactly what you get and the exposure-compensation dial won't change that.

However, if you leave the body in auto-exposure mode, the body will control the shutter out to a maximum of 32 seconds and you can use the exposure-compensation dial to adjust the meter-selected exposure by +/- two stops anywhere within that range.

So if you determine you need, say, a 12-second exposure, instead of switching to the B mode and counting off 12 seconds, you can switch to auto and then use the exposure-compensation dial to adjust the shutter speed to 12 seconds, as displayed on the LED readout inside the finder. While this method may not work for your puproses, it works well enough for me that as a practical matter, I only ever use the B mode when I need exposures that are longer than 32 seconds.

I apologize if my previous response gave you the wrong idea here.

 

[ondebanks]

Ah, OK I get you now. That makes more sense.

So you tweak the compensation on AE to get the shutter speed you want. Then I guess you use AE lock, which holds it indefinitely, including through Continuous exposures. Nice.

Ray

 

[Audii-Dudii]

So you tweak the compensation on AE to get the shutter speed you want. Then I guess you use AE lock, which holds it indefinitely, including through Continuous exposures. Nice.

Exactly. And Yes, this works well in practice...