3 lenses for Technical camera and Phase One IQ 180

[Robblakers]

I too have the Canon 17ts lens as my favourite for DSLR landscapes, which has carried through to the HR 23 in MFD. And, with a reasonably level set-up, multiple files from portrait format images made with the HR 23 can be stitched with Helicon or other stitching software. Here shown a single image and then 4 stitched.

 

[Landscapelover]

Rob,

Thanks for sharing.
They are amazingly sharp! Do you use CF with these pictures?
What f stop do you usually use and how many feet do you focus at to have DOF from few feet to infinity?

Pramote

 

[Robblakers]

Pramote - I neglected to say that these are both 3 focus-plane Helicon stacks. So the stitched image is 3 x 4 = 12 images total, and the single image is 3 images stacked. All taken at f8. I've resisted a CF to date - flare is problem enough with the 23 without the further reflectance outlined above by Graeme. LCC does a very good job here.

I have found that in using the HR 23 the corners of the image go very mushy when the subject is close, say less than a couple of feet. The centre is fine, just the corners. This is a problem with a traditional view camera technique of a close and large foreground leading into a background. The stitched image gives a wider view but could be also used to effectively increase the image circle - the outside portions of the larger image could be cropped away to retain an ultra-sharp, distortion-reduced central image of similar framing to a single 23 frame. Most often the camera will be pointing to some degree downwards in photographing a dominant and close foreground - I'm in the process of experimenting to see how Helicon handles downward-pointing ultra-wide images for stitching!

 

[Landscapelover]

Thanks very much Rob for this very useful information. I can't wait to get the HR 23 (with CF) next week although a little nervous about LCC and flare. I hope I can manage these problems.
Regards,
Pramote

 

[RodK]

What is great about these forums is you can learn about techniques you never would have thought about. I was looking to try and generate a true pano from a shift on a P65+, but most of the lenses seem to range to 8mm to 12mm, with 15mm being the real max. To me, for a pano, I feel that 18mm to 20mm is needed at minimum with the camera in the landscape orientation. Sure you can rotate the back 90 degrees and get 3 portrait oriented frames, and create a huge 2:3 landscape image with a lot of extra resolution, but not a real pano, not with 12mm of shift left and right. Unless you crop into your image and turn it into a 1:3 ratio.

As to the need for rise and fall, I fully understand the needs, but for shifting with 5mm, even 10mm is not enough to me is not enough if you are after a pano especially with the big wides 28mm or 23mm even 32. If I am after a pano I most times will just find nodal (it's doable even on the 28) and pan stitch. I realize as Guy pointed out, the big minus here is you have to be level and many times that just is not going to happen.

Back in 2005 when Zork Made their adapters that allowed a user to place a medium format lens on a 35mm camera, I was an early adopter, here you could get 18mm of full shift and depending on the lens, very little fall off or smearing at the edges. For me 18mm to each side is just beginning to get to a pano. The Zork was great in that you could have the camera in any orientation and still shift only the camera body (with simple mods) thus similar to how the tech camera operates.

These ultra wides from Rodenstock are amazing in how they hold the details to the edge of the frame. But for shifting, the 60mm Schneider is where I really start to push, as on a 60mp Phase you can go to 30mm and use about 90% to 92% of that stitch. The 60mm at 30mm left and 20mm right on Arca is really amazing and begins to look like a pano. You have to use a L bracket like the ones from Really Right Stuff to rotate the Acra so now your rise and fall become your shift.

Paul Caldwell

Actually Arca-Swiss makes some very nice universal L Brackets with QRs that would allow the 'flipping' of the camera to vertical position if you do not wish to reverse the back.
Uniquely ours is adjustable for different size cameras.
Rod

 

[johneaton]

I've been traveling awhile and just caught up with this thread and I just want to say a BIG thank you to all the contributors (especially Tim for asking the right questions!) -- this is what this site is all about!
I'm using a 35xl and 47xl on my Rm3d and am (slowly) winding myself up to getting something in the 90-120 range, so this is all very useful information.

Again, many thanks to everyone

John.

BTW just in case it's relevant to anyone's decisions regarding architecture work, on my english cathedral site all the work from 2010 onwards is with my Rm3d and either a 35xl or 34 xl and a P45+ back (I've recently got an IQ160 though )

 

[Guy Mancuso]

BTW I have a Rodie 28 and Sk 28 to test against coming up this weekend do look for a user review of the two. The folks at CI are lending me the lenses to test out for the forum. Thanks to Dave at CI for letting me do this test.

 

[johann]

Hi Guy,
the beach picture is fantastic! how bad is the colour cast of the SK 60 xl??
is there any chance to see the picture without LCC applied. I would love to compare it to Jack's 40 HR image.

thanks a lot,
Johannes

 

[johann]

Hi Guy,
the beach picture is fantastic! how bad is the colour cast of the SK 60 xl??
is there any chance to see the picture without LCC applied. I would love to compare it to Jack's 40 HR image.

thanks a lot,
Johannes

not sure what kind of craze is on my mind that I call dead valley a beach.
:loco::ROTFL:
:facesmack:

probably I need a break!

forgive me!:talk028:

 

[lenslover]

Excuse my laziness, but if you do two vertical stitches with a Rodenstock 32HR,
about what focal length view in a single capture would that be?

Bill

 

[dchew]

Bill,
Not sure how much of a shift / overlap you are referring to, but if you constrain the shift to keep the same format ratio (i.e. 4/3), then The 32 produces an image equivalent to a 24mm lens.

For example on a 54x40 sensor (actually 53.7x40.4), the diagonal is 67.2mm. To create an image with 4/3 ratio in the other direction you need a 71.6x53.7 format (a 15.6mm shift). That gives an 89.5mm diagonal. 32mm x 67.2 / 89.5 = 24mm

Dave

 

[lenslover]

Perfect. Just what I needed to hear. So, in shooting static subjects, or creatively shooting moving ones, the 32HR can be a versatile lens choice. Best choice is always single shot capture, but the 23mm has a lot if issues beyond its *ahem* high purchase price, especially when you factor in the cost of a graduated filter.

 

[etrump]

Perfect. Just what I needed to hear. So, in shooting static subjects, or creatively shooting moving ones, the 32HR can be a versatile lens choice. Best choice is always single shot capture, but the 23mm has a lot if issues beyond its *ahem* high purchase price, especially when you factor in the cost of a graduated filter.

If you routinely need the FOV of the 23, I'm not sure you'll be happy shooting the 32HR shifted that far. Quality gets pretty ugly past 10-12mm shifts especially if you are shooting with a larger aperture than f/16.

The 23 is a huge chunk of change and getting a quality image can be a challenge. That said, it is capable of producing some fantastic images when you get things right.

 

[etrump]

Thanks Ed!
Your insight for HR 23 and 32 is extremely helpful.
Worse comes to worse, I can just only do B&W with the HR 23.
Best regards,
Pramote

Since I have had several people contact me about the 23 issues, I thought I would post a bit of followup. This lens and the IQ180 together seem to be pushing the limits of MF physics but with care it pulls it off effectively.

1. Color cast: IMO, the color cast or hot spot with this lens is caused by light hitting the sensor and reflecting off the center filter back into the image. In most cases, it is mostly color cast but in some cases a slight hot spot. A real pain to remove the color cast after the fact but I have done it on a few images. Depending on the location of the light source you can usually shade the lens to eliminate it. Worst case in challenging light, I take an extra exposure with up to 1/3 of the frame shaded and use the center of that exposure blended with the original.

2. Resolution on this lens is fantastic but shooting that wide with a full 645 frame you will find you need to stop down to at least f/8 or f/11 to keep things clear to the edge otherwise you will see a little ghosting in the extreme edges of the frame. The HR32 shifted to these extreme FOV exhibits the same behavior.

3. When shooting things very close to this lens you have to take into account the DOF curvature. You'll need to compensate by stopping down or focusing closer. The closer things are the more you need to compensate for it. Fortunately, this lens does really well stopped down. I routinely shoot f/16 or f/22 and print at full resolution.

4. This lens is exceptionally sharp in the center and viewing at 100% you will notice a slight falloff in sharpness at probably the last 15%-20% of the image circle. I doubt anyone could see it in print but I know it's there so I usually correct in photoshop with a bit of unsharp mask and blend it in where I need it.

Your mileage may vary but it helps to have as much insight as possible when approaching this lens. I find myself using this lens more and more often the longer I own it. It opens up possibilities that I just didn't have without it.

Ed

 

[rupho]

Ed
Thanks for the interesting write up On the 23HR.
It might also be useful to know that this lens can be shifted up to 4mm in landscape orientation on a full frame chip which is really a lot in real life given the FoV. I did not expect this when I purchased this lens, same as the hot spot which came as a bit of a shock .

Regarding the centered hotpot that occurs in some images I came to the same conclusion by taking a second exposure while shading the upper part of the frame and combining the 2 frames later in post. That seems to be the easiest solution.
To avoid this problem I tried several shading solutions :
- Alpa's dedicated lens shade: it's was way too hard the find the exact position to control the hot spot
- Lee,s wide angle hood, which could not be retracted far enough

I ended up using my hand since none of the above was working for me
What does in fact helped a bit is to use a basic filter screwed onto this lens. Under certain lighting conditions the few millimeters reduce flare. But the hot spot can be a pain to deal with.
I am wondering if you have found any useful shading solution for the 23HR and what your take is on the CF? Could this CF help to avoid the centered hot spot by acting as a lens shade ?
I have not used one and felt I can get away with it unlike the 32HR which greatly benefits from a CF when lots of shift is applied, but if the CF on the 23 could get rid of the hot spot I would be buying one since this lens is a real gem for certain type of shots
thanks

Grischa

Since I have had several people contact me about the 23 issues, I thought I would post a bit of followup. This lens and the IQ180 together seem to be pushing the limits of MF physics but with care it pulls it off effectively.

1. Color cast: IMO, the color cast or hot spot with this lens is caused by light hitting the sensor and reflecting off the center filter back into the image. In most cases, it is mostly color cast but in some cases a slight hot spot. A real pain to remove the color cast after the fact but I have done it on a few images. Depending on the location of the light source you can usually shade the lens to eliminate it. Worst case in challenging light, I take an extra exposure with up to 1/3 of the frame shaded and use the center of that exposure blended with the original.

2. Resolution on this lens is fantastic but shooting that wide with a full 645 frame you will find you need to stop down to at least f/8 or f/11 to keep things clear to the edge otherwise you will see a little ghosting in the extreme edges of the frame. The HR32 shifted to these extreme FOV exhibits the same behavior.

3. When shooting things very close to this lens you have to take into account the DOF curvature. You'll need to compensate by stopping down or focusing closer. The closer things are the more you need to compensate for it. Fortunately, this lens does really well stopped down. I routinely shoot f/16 or f/22 and print at full resolution.

4. This lens is exceptionally sharp in the center and viewing at 100% you will notice a slight falloff in sharpness at probably the last 15%-20% of the image circle. I doubt anyone could see it in print but I know it's there so I usually correct in photoshop with a bit of unsharp mask and blend it in where I need it.

Your mileage may vary but it helps to have as much insight as possible when approaching this lens. I find myself using this lens more and more often the longer I own it. It opens up possibilities that I just didn't have without it.

Ed

 

[Landscapelover]

Since I have had several people contact me about the 23 issues, I thought I would post a bit of followup. This lens and the IQ180 together seem to be pushing the limits of MF physics but with care it pulls it off effectively.

1. Color cast: IMO, the color cast or hot spot with this lens is caused by light hitting the sensor and reflecting off the center filter back into the image. In most cases, it is mostly color cast but in some cases a slight hot spot. A real pain to remove the color cast after the fact but I have done it on a few images. Depending on the location of the light source you can usually shade the lens to eliminate it. Worst case in challenging light, I take an extra exposure with up to 1/3 of the frame shaded and use the center of that exposure blended with the original.

2. Resolution on this lens is fantastic but shooting that wide with a full 645 frame you will find you need to stop down to at least f/8 or f/11 to keep things clear to the edge otherwise you will see a little ghosting in the extreme edges of the frame. The HR32 shifted to these extreme FOV exhibits the same behavior.

3. When shooting things very close to this lens you have to take into account the DOF curvature. You'll need to compensate by stopping down or focusing closer. The closer things are the more you need to compensate for it. Fortunately, this lens does really well stopped down. I routinely shoot f/16 or f/22 and print at full resolution.

4. This lens is exceptionally sharp in the center and viewing at 100% you will notice a slight falloff in sharpness at probably the last 15%-20% of the image circle. I doubt anyone could see it in print but I know it's there so I usually correct in photoshop with a bit of unsharp mask and blend it in where I need it.

Your mileage may vary but it helps to have as much insight as possible when approaching this lens. I find myself using this lens more and more often the longer I own it. It opens up possibilities that I just didn't have without it.

Ed

Thank you very much Ed! This is the best advice from the best.
Pramote