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Thread: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

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    Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Hi all.

    Apologies for the noob question. I have learned a lot from this forum over the last few months, but one thing still confuses me.

    I'm going to be getting a MF system soon. I'm pretty much sold on an Alpa TC/P65+ combination for wide shots, but I also want to get another body for longer lens use, and also and for using to create very large (multi-gigapixel) panoramas when mounted on my Seitz VR Drive 2 robotic pano head.

    For the second body, I'm very much driven primarily by lens choice/quality/price, rather than the body itself. For me, it's more a case of finding a good range of options for lenses, and then working out what body I need to stick between the P65+ and the lens in order to take the shot.

    As such, I've been doing some searches on EBay for 645 lenses, but am thoroughly confused by what comes up. For example, if I do a search for Mamiya 645, there is a huge range of what appear to be remarkably good value for money lenses available. Theres a 300mm f/2.8 for example, which is cheap compared to my 300mm f/2.8 that I have for my Canon DSLRs. And it covers a 645 sensor? :O

    I guess there are two parts to my question:

    Firstly, how can I tell from the descriptions/model numbers which lenses would be suitable for the P65+ (i.e. the back won't out-resolve the lens); and

    Secondly, which body options do I have to match up with which lenses?

    One assumption that you can make is that auto-focus is pretty low on my priorities.

    Thanks in advance for any advice and comments

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/lens-a...tml#post391468

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    The manual lenses are more numerous and cheaper, and will work on an AF body (which is required for the P65+). But focus (obviously) and aperture control must be done manually.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Also, when using a one of the old 645M lenses, the metering mode on the Phase One 645D or DF will be spot metering only. Focus confirmation will light up, but obviously, take its accuracy with a grain of salt.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Thanks all - very useful background on the lenses (especially Jack's round-up that Doug linked to), but my confusion remains.

    Which bodies can take these lenses and a P65+?

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    The LS lenses can only be used on the DF. I have a DF 80LS and 110LS for sale right now on the B&S. Check it out
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    See, this is why I get confused chaps

    From gsking: "AF body is required for P65+"
    From Guy: "LS can only be used on the DF".

    I'm aware that the DF is the current PhaseOne/Mamiya body, and it superseded the AF. I'm trying to decide what body to buy in order to take advantage of the range of older manual focus lenses.

    Would I be right in assuming that all of the manual focus lenses can be used on all bodies (DF, AF, RZ, RB, M645), and that all these bodies can take the P65+?

    Perhaps the question is so obvious that you wouldn't even assume someone would be dumb enough not to know the answer already, but if I equate it to the Canon world for example, FD lenses don't fit EF lens mounts without an adapter, despite the fact they're all 35mm lenses, so hopefully you can see what the ignorance is rooted in!

    If I have to manually do stuff on the body/lens (totally manual metering, manually stop down lenses before shooting, that kind of stuff), that's fine by me - I like that kind of thing. I'm coming from two different directions here as I currently have Canon DSLR's and a 5x7 film camera.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The LS lenses can only be used on the DF. I have a DF 80LS and 110LS for sale right now on the B&S. Check it out
    Wow, Guy. Are you sure you don't want someone to hold onto your 645DF and lenses while you reconsider?

    Sweetheart deal for sure: http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-f...cessories.html

    ken

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    I know its hurting my head a lot.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The LS lenses can only be used on the DF. I have a DF 80LS and 110LS for sale right now on the B&S. Check it out
    Can't the LS lenses be used on the older bodies in regular mode, just not in leaf-shutter mode?

    (Also, we need to be very specific that there are the latest Schneider LS lenses designed for use on the DF body, and there were also older LS lenses designed for use with the old Mamiya manual Pro body. The older Mamiya branded LS lenses wiil NOT work on any AF body in LS mode.)
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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    See, this is why I get confused chaps

    From gsking: "AF body is required for P65+"
    From Guy: "LS can only be used on the DF".

    I'm aware that the DF is the current PhaseOne/Mamiya body, and it superseded the AF. I'm trying to decide what body to buy in order to take advantage of the range of older manual focus lenses.

    Would I be right in assuming that all of the manual focus lenses can be used on all bodies (DF, AF, RZ, RB, M645), and that all these bodies can take the P65+?

    Perhaps the question is so obvious that you wouldn't even assume someone would be dumb enough not to know the answer already, but if I equate it to the Canon world for example, FD lenses don't fit EF lens mounts without an adapter, despite the fact they're all 35mm lenses, so hopefully you can see what the ignorance is rooted in!

    If I have to manually do stuff on the body/lens (totally manual metering, manually stop down lenses before shooting, that kind of stuff), that's fine by me - I like that kind of thing. I'm coming from two different directions here as I currently have Canon DSLR's and a 5x7 film camera.
    To take advantage of every lens made both in old style and new than the DF will do that but it will not take a film back if you wanted to do that.

    Now i have a IQ 160 which is the same sensor as your P65+ i would stay on the D lenses path and on the LS path. You can use some of the old glass for sure as some will hold up like a 150 3.5 for instance but some will fall apart on your P65+. Honestly why go backwards as you now have 60 mpx sensor and your not going to get everything out of it with some of the old stuff and besides that like the 45 and 55 maybe the same formula per say but the D lenses have the focus clutch on the lens which is very nice to have so you can go AF hit the clutch and fine tune with Manual focus or just switch back and forth much easier on the lens than the body.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    See, this is why I get confused chaps

    From gsking: "AF body is required for P65+"
    I don't use Mamiya, but my understanding is that you can use all the older Mamiya 645 lenses on any Mamiya 645 body (M645, AF, DF).

    The new Schneider leaf shutter (LS) lenses, From Guy: "LS can only be used on the DF".

    I think that the AF lenses probably require an AF body, but then I think that you need an AFD or newer model to use a digital back.

    The RB/RZ models cannot use the 645 lenses - the mount is different, the focussing is different, and the coverage is different: 6x7 vs. 645. Equally, the 645 bodies cannot use RB/RZ lenses.

    The RB/RZ models use an adaptor plate for digital back use which is pretty much the same as the back of a Mamiya 645 camera. This means that if you have an M (=Mamiya) mount P65+, it can be used on both 645, AFD and newer, bodies and on (6x7) RB/RZ bodies, giving you some choices.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Can't the LS lenses be used on the older bodies in regular mode, just not in leaf-shutter mode?

    (Also, we need to be very specific that there are the latest Schneider LS lenses designed for use on the DF body, and there were also older LS lenses designed for use with the old Mamiya manual Pro body. The older Mamiya branded LS lenses wiil NOT work on any AF body in LS mode.)
    I'm pretty sure they can't . We need our resident Phase guy. DOUG where are you. Sent Doug a note , want to make sure we have this correct. Yes sometimes i make mistakes but not often. ROTFLMAO
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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    The older style LS lenses will mechanically fit to the newer bodies (AFD1/2/3, AF, DF) but the aperture needs to be stopped down manually and if you want to use the leaf shutter for fast sync you have to trigger it manually, independently from the body shutter. So you can set e.g. a 2" exposure on the body and then fire the leaf shutter lens during that 2" exposure. I've never done this myself but we have a client who did. It's obviously limited to tripod only and slow working speed. I consider it more a curiosity/esoteric-use than practical.

    Re: RZ lenses on AF/DF body
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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Okay LS lenses Doug only on the DF?

    I should say full function
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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Correct.

    Old LS Lenses: minimal support on all modern bodies (as described above)
    New LS Lenses: minimal support on all modern bodies, full function ONLY on DF

    New LS Lens on AF body for instance will mount, but it it manual focus only, zero aperture control (can only shoot wide open), and the Leaf Shutter will not fire.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Thanks I thought so. Appreciate you clearing things up so we all know.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Now i have a IQ 160 which is the same sensor as your P65+ i would stay on the D lenses path and on the LS path. You can use some of the old glass for sure as some will hold up like a 150 3.5 for instance but some will fall apart on your P65+. Honestly why go backwards...
    Just to address this specific point, if the lens is of great quality (and judging from what I've read, some clearly are), then I don't really think of it as "going backwards" simply because it's old glass and has to be focused and/or stopped down manually.

    As per the first part of my question, I'm specifically interested in those older lenses that do hold up on a P65+ and are good value for money (and was initially confused about which bodies can take which lenses).

    For example, the 150 3.5 you mention would seem to sell for under couple of hundred bucks on Ebay. A new 150 f/2.8 D is $3,500.

    Is the new one worth 20x the price of the old one? Maybe it is - that's what I'm looking to find out. But if there's not much in it optically, then my preference might be to get the old one and spend the difference on picking up 3 or 4 other older 645 lenses, and a tilt adapter for the TC.

    Once again - much appreciate your and others input into this thread. It's cleared up a lot for me

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Not to hijack the thread but can anyone comment on how the Mamiya AF lenses compare to the new Schneider-Kreuznach lenses as far as the 'look' they give goes (not necessarily sharpness)? The reason I'm asking is because I got to play with a Phase One 645DF+IQ160 and loved it but since I cannot afford to buy a digital one I'm considering a film body. Currently I'm using Hasselblad film bodies and love the way the lenses render but don't like the square very much. I know I could use the Hasselblad lenses with an adapter but I don't want to have to do manual stop down or manual focusing.

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    It is very personal, but IMHO the SK LS lenses have better Bokeh than just about anything else you can mount, similar to the Hassy 100/2 FE and older Mamiya 80/1.9 manual lenses, and even better bokeh than the current crop of SK tech lenses. They are wonderful to use wide open.
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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie123 View Post
    Currently I'm using Hasselblad film bodies and love the way the lenses render but don't like the square very much.
    Contax?

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    It is very personal, but IMHO the SK LS lenses have better Bokeh than just about anything else you can mount, similar to the Hassy 100/2 FE and older Mamiya 80/1.9 manual lenses, and even better bokeh than the current crop of SK tech lenses. They are wonderful to use wide open.
    That 80mm SK LS lens wide open is really something else. I don't know if it's just the way it works together with the IQ160 back but I would've loved to use this on film (as I cannot afford to buy the IQ160 unless I rob a few liquor stores).

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    Re: Confused about Phase One/Mamiya body and lens options

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Green View Post
    Contax?
    I am considering it as it seems to be a nice system. It's quite a bit more expensive than the Mamiya 645 AF system. Was hoping to save a few bucks!

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