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LCC and White Balance
- Thread starter rga
- Start date
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
You can use the LCC image as a white balance reference if you chose to do so. The diffuser basically is picking up the overall color cast present. It is rather like using something like an Expodisc but with the sensor/lens color cast corrected.
By default when you create an LCC in C1 it will not use it to set the white balance automatically but you can use the eye dropper on white balance to measure (on the LCC image - I use the center of the image with the LCC applied so it looks like a neutral grey card) and then apply it to subsequent LCC corrected images.
By default when you create an LCC in C1 it will not use it to set the white balance automatically but you can use the eye dropper on white balance to measure (on the LCC image - I use the center of the image with the LCC applied so it looks like a neutral grey card) and then apply it to subsequent LCC corrected images.
What Graham said. And stated another way:
1) LCC measures the color deltas across the RAW image to create the LCC correction frame -- as such it has no direct effect on final WB.
2) By droppering the *corrected* LCC frame with the White Balance dropper, you can use that as a measure for a very accurate WB for that image, but you then need to apply that WB setting to the original image.
1) LCC measures the color deltas across the RAW image to create the LCC correction frame -- as such it has no direct effect on final WB.
2) By droppering the *corrected* LCC frame with the White Balance dropper, you can use that as a measure for a very accurate WB for that image, but you then need to apply that WB setting to the original image.
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
My english language skills are questionable before 8am and two cups of coffee. Thanks for the clearer explanation. 
MGrayson
Subscriber and Workshop Member
Bear in mind that if you take a picture at sunset and use the LCC for white balance, you will be producing a scene as it would look under neutral light. This may not be what you want. I know it's the same with a gray card, and it's completely obvious, but it can be confusing when your sunset pictures suddenly look mid-day.
In that sense, it's very good for breaking one from the "picture as accurate representation" mindset. What the heck *should* those dunes look like? You get to decide!
--Matt
In that sense, it's very good for breaking one from the "picture as accurate representation" mindset. What the heck *should* those dunes look like? You get to decide!
--Matt
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
Very well said. WB in landscape come down to really what you want it to be , it does not have to be 5500 kelvin and most times that can be too blue. Simply work with the color temp in your favorite raw convertor and work to taste. Portraits and people a different scenario altogether.
And I thought I understood LCC?
I always go at this from a different way by setting the ICC camera profile and white balance on the image, apply that to the LCC capture and then at that stage doing the C1 LCC correction thingy.
I always had it in my head that any deviation from the original image (white balance) would effect the results of the LCC.
Seems obvious to WB off the corrected LCC but I didn't think it was a simple as that.
I always go at this from a different way by setting the ICC camera profile and white balance on the image, apply that to the LCC capture and then at that stage doing the C1 LCC correction thingy.
I always had it in my head that any deviation from the original image (white balance) would effect the results of the LCC.
Seems obvious to WB off the corrected LCC but I didn't think it was a simple as that.
Guy Mancuso
Administrator, Instructor
LOL exactly
Wonderful! Thank you both Jack and Graham.
Of course one question leads to another. For shots I will stitch from back shifts and for which I do an LCC shot and correction for each change in position of the back, would it be best to do a WB for each LCC for that particular back position/exposure? My guess is probably "no" because it would be best to have the same WB for each image being stitched...
Thanks again!
Bob
Of course one question leads to another. For shots I will stitch from back shifts and for which I do an LCC shot and correction for each change in position of the back, would it be best to do a WB for each LCC for that particular back position/exposure? My guess is probably "no" because it would be best to have the same WB for each image being stitched...
Thanks again!
Bob
I had been experimenting with this idea and wanted to make sure my workflow is correct.
Correct the LCC exposure in C1 and select color correction and light fall off. One question I have is the ICC profile of the LCC is the default "flash" as all Phase raw files are. Do you change the ICC profile to Daylight or leave it as is?
With the corrected LCC use the white balance tool to click on the center of the LCC. This will set the WB of the LCC.
Take the numbers for WB and tint from the LCC and manually change the corresponding WB of the file that the LCC applies to.
Apply LCC to the Image.
Thanks
Paul Caldwell
Correct the LCC exposure in C1 and select color correction and light fall off. One question I have is the ICC profile of the LCC is the default "flash" as all Phase raw files are. Do you change the ICC profile to Daylight or leave it as is?
With the corrected LCC use the white balance tool to click on the center of the LCC. This will set the WB of the LCC.
Take the numbers for WB and tint from the LCC and manually change the corresponding WB of the file that the LCC applies to.
Apply LCC to the Image.
Thanks
Paul Caldwell
GrahamWelland
Subscriber & Workshop Member
I use a style that sets the default ICC profile to Daylight. I use this in the import dialog for all images.
For the LCC, set the WB for the corrected LCC image. I then select the other images that need the same WB and use the copy settings & apply (It's the double arrow on the White Balance tab).
If I'm applying that LCC AND the WB to the selected images then I'll use the global copy adjustments & apply functions (Arrow up/down on the main toolbar).
You can obviously do this all manually as you described but this is quicker.
For the LCC, set the WB for the corrected LCC image. I then select the other images that need the same WB and use the copy settings & apply (It's the double arrow on the White Balance tab).
If I'm applying that LCC AND the WB to the selected images then I'll use the global copy adjustments & apply functions (Arrow up/down on the main toolbar).
You can obviously do this all manually as you described but this is quicker.
The LCC white bal step is not critical, and moreover, LCCs CAN AND DO sometimes impart slight color shifts when stitching, requiring a WB tweak. It is caused by the shift pattern on the sensor at any given point changing when the lens shifts, thus imparting a different LCC correction at the stitch seam. Note that I view this a defect in the LCC tool, but for now it seems an incurable defect... The color shift is usually subtle, like 5 points in one channel, 2 or 3 in the others with the IQ180, and can be seen in even toned areas like a sky or building siding. (The color shifts are lesser on the IQ160/P65+ but still present and measurable, though lesser enough it makes these backs a better choice -- at least for color fidelity -- if one plans on stitching extensively ---- IMHO only!) Here I will adjust the color temp of one of my IQ180 frames to the exact same point in the other stitch image to bring the two as close as possible -- usually this requires a very minor (1 or 2 step) Kelvin change and maybe 1 step on tint to bring both halves to within 1 or 2 points on each color channel. Normally the stitching software can blend them anyway, but this extra step insures superior color accuracy across the final if that's important, like it can be in an architectural shot.
Christopher
Active member
I don't get it. I know of the problem, I have seen it, I have told Phase about it and it's still there. I AM very happy with my IQ180, but it is sad, that Phase can't fix such a problem....