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Thread: Tech camera stupid question of the day

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    Tech camera stupid question of the day

    I've become interested in Tech cameras and am considering an entry level Cambo. One thing escapes me though - considering you're looking through a viewfinder mounted on top of the body how do you see the results of lens and or back movements?

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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    You don't; though there may be VF inserts that will show different movements.

    One solution is ALPA's iPhone app. Mounted on the camera, it shows rise, fall, shift and parallax. http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/alpa-...405837177?mt=8

    ALPA make an iPhone adapter, but you could probably figure out a way to mount an iPhone on another camera.

    Maybe Guy has tried to use the app. I'm pretty sure he bought it.

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Usually you shoot and adjust or possibly use live-view if your back supports it.
    -bob

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Hi Andy and welcome to the forum! Assuming you're using a digital back you see the results there. When I first began using a tech camera I also used a groundglass to check movements etc however I quickly found that to be a pain. I use the viewfinder to set the shot up and then the screen of my P65 to verify I got what I was looking for.

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    I use a P25, so no live view.

    So, if I'm trying to get my verticals straight, or increase my apparent DOF, it's either hit and miss, shoot tethered or try the Alpa App?

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    no,
    to make verticals straight level the camera.
    to increase apparent DOF assuming you mean Sheimpflug, then tilt 1 degree per 30mm of focal length with camera at eye-level and pull focus back slightly
    -bob

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyPtak View Post
    I use a P25, so no live view.

    So, if I'm trying to get my verticals straight, or increase my apparent DOF, it's either hit and miss, shoot tethered or try the Alpa App?
    An Arca Swiss Cube (or two) would get your verticals perfectly straight. As Bob says, for verticals to stay straight all you need is a leveled camera. Rise/fall movements on the back and lens tilt/swing do not effect verticals-staying-straight, so once your camera is level you don't have to worry anymore about verticals staying straight - you can rise/fall to your hearts content.

    If using Scheimflug then you have three options: rules of thumb (as quickly summarized by Bob), focus bracketing (CYA), or presets (test when you first get the back and mark down two or three specific combinations of settings to get to scheimflug heaven).

    With an IQ you add three other methods: live view, focus mask, and 100% LCD after-capture review.

    The IQ also has a built in tilt-level (both axis) that could supplement or replace the bubble levels on the Cube - though nothing can replace the mechanics of the Cube.

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyPtak View Post
    I use a P25, so no live view.

    So, if I'm trying to get my verticals straight, or increase my apparent DOF, it's either hit and miss, shoot tethered or try the Alpa App?
    Actually the Alpa "app" I believe is actually Viewfinder Pro app. Very useful for any photographer, especially those using primes.

    Alpa makes an adaptor which is very nice and you slide the phone into it. Someone on the forum was creating a mount system which could handle shifts, but if you could mount it on the camera in a way that even gave you an approximate view it would be better than the optical viewfinders. Then fine tune by shoot/recompose/delete till you get it right.

    As far as depth of field, I think most are using laser rangefinders to measure the distances and a modified version of hyper focal distance and the scales on the lens to set focus. I tried Live View on an Alpa and really didn't think it was useful, but others have gotten better mileage out of it.

    I sold the Alpa stuff, but will venture back into the world of tech cameras when I stumble across a good deal on a used Cambo setup.
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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Quick question for Bob, or others on use of rise to correct the perspective.
    Can't you use rise (shift) to correct your perspective?, example:

    I have always used shift on 35mm cameras to help correct situations where I couldn't keep the camera vertical due to the scene. Example using a 24 TSE, on Canon, if I am forced to point the camera up to compose the scene, then I have always used shift to fix the perspective (mainly trees pointing inwards). With a tech camera, I have found this a bit more difficult since you can't see the scene change as you shift. So you have to check the image in the LCD to see if you made enough shift (rise) to effect the perspective.

    Thanks
    Paul

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Paul - its the same. The difference is that in the absence of live view you just adjust, shoot, review , adjust etc. it becomes second nature and bits are cheap.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Well, perspective (parallel lines) are preserved as parallel if the sensor plane is parallel to the subject. For most scenes that means simply leveling your camera. ASAIK all tech cameras have at least a few bubble levels situated strategically around the camera. Once the camera is leveled you then can shift (rise or fall as required) to include the framing you desire. After a while it is not too hard to estimate but shoot and review is the most convenient way to do it since gigabytes are cheap and recyclable.
    Then, in post production, if the parallel lines look too fake, which they often do, then you can back-off with something like a keystone tool to your taste so that there is some convergence of the parallel lines.
    -bob

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    look here for my I-phone holder.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/medium...ne-holder.html

    viewfinder Pro app is very useful; it can be set to show frame lines that match your set of lenses and specific digital back sensor size. it will also zoom in, past offering full frame for the FOV of each lens. the basic I-phone and a full frame DB will only go as wide as a 45mm lens, but you can fit an I-phone wide angle adapter lens that will get wider and will coordinate with Viewfinder Pro. this is a very useful setup for panoramic shots to be stitched

    basic comparison to the Alpa:
    -I-phone rotates in the holder (click stops) from portrait to landscape, on the phone lens axis,
    -will fit Cambo hot shoe, alpa and Arca
    -can be fine tuned for an exact match to what you will capture, including a mechanical perspective correction. Viewfinder Pro has a software perspective correction, but that simply crops your image
    -same price
    Last edited by jlm; 24th February 2012 at 02:41.

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    I have the 1st generation Alpa iPhone holder and also examined John's version in the flesh. It is a superbly engineered piece of gear that id buy if I didn't already have one.

    Btw, Alpa have now come out with a v2 of their holder that can accommodate iPhones with larger cases and also lock everything down. I think John was also considering making his holder able to accommodate a larger iPhone sleeve too. I use the Schneider case & lens kit (highly recommended btw) but it's too big for any of the holders at the moment. Instead I use an Olloclip lens for wide angle use with my dedicated viewfinder iPhone. (Ha, the decadence of being in the telecom business!)
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Subscriber Member jotloob's Avatar
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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I have the 1st generation Alpa iPhone holder and also examined John's version in the flesh. It is a superbly engineered piece of gear that id buy if I didn't already have one.

    Btw, Alpa have now come out with a v2 of their holder that can accommodate iPhones with larger cases and also lock everything down. I think John was also considering making his holder able to accommodate a larger iPhone sleeve too. I use the Schneider case & lens kit (highly recommended btw) but it's too big for any of the holders at the moment. Instead I use an Olloclip lens for wide angle use with my dedicated viewfinder iPhone. (Ha, the decadence of being in the telecom business!)
    Graham

    Could you give some more details about the Schneider Case and Lens Kit ?
    Possibly a link ? I have Never heard of that .
    I currently use an Olloclip as well , but am looking for a better solution .
    Thank you .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Here you go: iPro Lens System
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Thanks Graham

    It seems that the iprolens System is only distributed in the U.S.
    I can't find a link to a dealer in Europe .
    But i will not give up .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Tech camera stupid question of the day

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyPtak View Post
    I've become interested in Tech cameras and am considering an entry level Cambo. One thing escapes me though - considering you're looking through a viewfinder mounted on top of the body how do you see the results of lens and or back movements?
    The Arca-Swiss VarioFinder with appropriate mask, allows you to see the adjusted frame with lateral shift and/or rise/fall movements. A Vario Findermask is selected for your DB sensor size and desired focal length combination. The mask moves on the front of the VarioFinder and reveals small pinpoints of light - each pinpoint indicates a movement of 5mm. Transfer these movements to the camera and it will match the view through the finder. It is extremely accurate, quick and easy to use. The finder can be removed from the finder shoe and remounted for vertical composition. Additionally, the finder can be removed from the camera and is great for scouting and determining your lens choice and composition ahead of setting up the camera.

    You might look at the Arca-Swiss RM2d if you want an entry tech camera or travel camera in a smaller package, with rise/fall/shift movements, fine focus, the Vario Finder, and modular Arca-Swiss accessories like the compendium shade. Rod Klukas
    Last edited by RodK; 28th February 2012 at 08:08.
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