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Thread: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    How many pixels does that translate to on a FF sensor?
    We need a mathematician
    About maybe 400 Mpx.
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Forget about the phone, think about the technology implemented with other, larger sensors. It opens up a bag full of possibilities.
    Yes - and some serious headaches for lens designers.
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Vinberg View Post
    Forget the D800 - the new threat to MF is Nokia's upcoming 41 Mpx camera phone presented today. Yikes.
    That Nokia 808 is a threat to the D800/E, no?

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That Nokia 808 is a threat to the D800/E, no?
    Or, if we're to believe some posts here, as new high-res FF sensors will create more demand for MFDB systems, perhaps Phase One is a threat to Nokia.
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I'm getting 1.44 micron pixel size, so a FF would be.. yep, 415 MP, and an IQ180 size chip would be about 1.15 GP. Talk about a computer upgrade!

    --Matt

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Btw, I heard a surprising comment today from my dealer. They've had probably a 3:1 ratio of D800 : D800E pre-orders so far. I would have expected a lot more requests for the D800E actually, even knowing that it is a few hundred $$ more and probably going to be less available overall and shipping slightly later. This just seemed counter to what I'd heard elsewhere and yes I did clarify E vs non-E.

    What are others hearing?
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Well, in all honesty the D800 AA filter seems very weak. Even with the D800, the resolution is a HUGE step up for almost all Nikon shooters. And some orders might be for video production.
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    The vast majority of the D800 cameras are sold to people who don't have a clue what an AA filter is, but who believe firmly that the quality of their photography is proportional with the number of pixels multiplied with maximum ISO.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    I bet you that Nikon are not so arrogant that they dont watch trends, so silly as it may sound they wont want camera phones eroding any of their coolpix market ,
    Too late ... point and shoots sales sliding fast - started in 2009. (16% decline in unit sales, 24% decline in revenue over 2008).

    They keep trying to put more stuff in them, but as soon as camera phones offer compelling zoom options, which is coming, only high end point and shoots may remain viable. I think that was Nikon's thinking the J/V1, a puzzling camera if going against micro 4/3rds and sony NEX, but maybe a smart strategy in the long run to appeal to that segment that may still want something better than a camera phone.
    wayne
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Btw, I heard a surprising comment today from my dealer. They've had probably a 3:1 ratio of D800 : D800E pre-orders so far. I would have expected a lot more requests for the D800E actually, even knowing that it is a few hundred $$ more and probably going to be less available overall and shipping slightly later. This just seemed counter to what I'd heard elsewhere and yes I did clarify E vs non-E.

    What are others hearing?
    Most of these cameras are going to people shooters .. they do outnumber landscape guys by a considerable amount. Moire is a big deal to them, and fabric still is problematic with the d800 according to a couple of reps in the Nikon booth at WPPI. (of course, who knows if they know what they are talking about)

    We have quite a few pre-orders, most want t see files first (we'll setup a couple of hands on sessions when we get some in). But so far, 3 have ordered one of each, so it'll be interesting to see their perspective.

    It's shaping up to be a decent year hear in the store ... between the tsunami, thailand and no new stuff last year was pretty slim in camera sales. Canon's announcement this week will step things up another notch ...
    wayne
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    The vast majority of the D800 cameras are sold to people who don't have a clue what an AA filter is, but who believe firmly that the quality of their photography is proportional with the number of pixels multiplied with maximum ISO.
    Not so sure about that one.... Any 'amateur' photographer i have ever met who had a D700 or a 5d could have written a book on any technical aspect of photography or their camera systems. If you doubt that call round to your nearest camera club meeting and you will probably leave feeling like the newbie!

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Not so sure about that one.... Any 'amateur' photographer i have ever met who had a D700 or a 5d could have written a book on any technical aspect of photography or their camera systems. If you doubt that call round to your nearest camera club meeting and you will probably leave feeling like the newbie!
    In both cases, just more statically insignificant antidotal information to support one agenda or another.

    Camera club members may indeed be "well informed" as to the technical capabilities of their chosen gear, but the correlation to the number of cameras sold in the $3,000 or below category is an unknown.

    I see upwards of 20 to 30 people with decent DSLRs at any given wedding I shoot, some with better gear then me at times. Few even know how to drag the shutter when using flash ... let alone what effect a AA filter may have on an image. However, I wouldn't extrapolate some generalized quali/quant data from that antidotal experience.

    What is significant is that Nikon chose to also offer the camera with the AA cancellation filter ... so there MUST be enough potential to justify doing it in the first place.

    -Marc

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    In both cases, just more statically insignificant antidotal information to support one agenda or another.

    Camera club members may indeed be "well informed" as to the technical capabilities of their chosen gear, but the correlation to the number of cameras sold in the $3,000 or below category is an unknown.

    I see upwards of 20 to 30 people with decent DSLRs at any given wedding I shoot, some with better gear then me at times. Few even know how to drag the shutter when using flash ... let alone what effect a AA filter may have on an image. However, I wouldn't extrapolate some generalized quali/quant data from that antidotal experience.

    What is significant is that Nikon chose to also offer the camera with the AA cancellation filter ... so there MUST be enough potential to justify doing it in the first place.

    -Marc
    Seriously, I am not trying to be rude Marc but having read that several times I am none the wiser as to what your point is.

    My point was that people buying cameras in the price range of a D800 usually know what they're doing.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Seriously, I am not trying to be rude Marc but having read that several times I am none the wiser as to what your point is.

    My point was that people buying cameras in the price range of a D800 usually know what they're doing.
    Why not just say that, instead of trying to prove it with questionable antidotal resources like camera clubs? Some clubs around here are not as sophisticated as your's seem to be. That's my point.

    BTW, antidotally, I know a LOT of amateur photographers with 5Ds that barely know how to turn on the camera ... price of camera doesn't always equate to knowledge ... it simply means they have the money to buy better.

    -Marc
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    Smile Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    My point was that people buying cameras in the price range of a D800 usually know what they're doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    BTW, antidotally, I know a LOT of amateur photographers with 5Ds that barely know how to turn on the camera ... price of camera doesn't always equate to knowledge ... it simply means they have the money to buy better.

    -Marc
    The two are you are obviously missing the correct conclusion here: tech-nerds buy Nikon; ignorant buffoons buy Canon!

    [Closed captioning for the humor impaired: no, of course I'm not serious!]



    Oh, and for what little it may be worth, the word you're looking for is "anecdotally" instead of "antidotally". I doubt the latter is a word at all, but if it was, it would probably mean something about an antidote -- i.e., related to combating the effects of a poison, or something on that order. "Anecdotal" means based on anecdotes (stories).

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Why not just say that, instead of trying to prove it with questionable antidotal resources like camera clubs? Some clubs around here are not as sophisticated as your's seem to be. That's my point.

    BTW, antidotally, I know a LOT of amateur photographers with 5Ds that barely know how to turn on the camera ... price of camera doesn't always equate to knowledge ... it simply means they have the money to buy better.

    -Marc
    Ah, I was wondering if you were calling me a bullshitter, now I see you were.

    Thats cool. I replied to a post with with my own experience of the people I have met with high end dslrs. Not sure why that rubs you up the wrong way but 'whatever'. It's not that big of a deal really now is it.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    If this phone has a viewfinder app, it might make a really good complement to a tech camera with an IQ140. Or maybe even a backup...

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    I'm getting 1.44 micron pixel size, so a FF would be.. yep, 415 MP, and an IQ180 size chip would be about 1.15 GP. Talk about a computer upgrade!

    --Matt
    Lars - Matt - thanks for the sums - not sure my little 13"mbp would be up to that

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Btw, I heard a surprising comment today from my dealer. They've had probably a 3:1 ratio of D800 : D800E pre-orders so far. I would have expected a lot more requests for the D800E actually, even knowing that it is a few hundred $$ more and probably going to be less available overall and shipping slightly later. This just seemed counter to what I'd heard elsewhere and yes I did clarify E vs non-E.

    What are others hearing?
    Hi Graham
    when I spoke to my dealer he was talking 120 D800 to 35 D800e - so - yes, just about what your dealer was saying.

    all the best
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jcoffin View Post
    Oh, and for what little it may be worth, the word you're looking for is "anecdotally" instead of "antidotally". I doubt the latter is a word at all, but if it was, it would probably mean something about an antidote -- i.e., related to combating the effects of a poison, or something on that order. "Anecdotal" means based on anecdotes (stories).
    I think AntiDotal is a fab word . . . and I didn't know that anyone ever went to a camera club . . do such things really exist? How strange.

    I'm certain that if I went to a camera club I'd need something Antidotal afterwards . . . probably a large scotch!

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Great humor Jono. Thanks. This discussion needs more humor. It's not like it is life or death guys, and it is my impression that the OP was looking to invoke some fun into a discussion.

    Marc's grammatical error is nothing compared to others I have seen here. A correction publicly in the thread always makes me question the poster's intention. A private message seems more appropriate to me.

    Greg
    Last edited by BANKER1; 28th February 2012 at 11:47.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think AntiDotal is a fab word . . . and I didn't know that anyone ever went to a camera club . . do such things really exist? How strange.

    I'm certain that if I went to a camera club I'd need something Antidotal afterwards . . . probably a large scotch!
    I will make the suggestion that the publishers include antidotal in the next OED.
    What a wonderful word.
    -bob

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    I will make the suggestion that the publishers include antidotal in the next OED.
    What a wonderful word.
    -bob
    oops, it is already there
    -bob

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I think the anecdotes ARE the best antidotal medicine for this thread!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    Great humor Jono. Thanks. This discussion needs more humor. It's not like it is life or death guys, and it is my impression that the OP was looking to invoke some fun into a discussion.

    Marc's grammatical error is nothing compared to others I have seen here. A correction publicly in the thread always make me question the poster's intention. A private message seems more appropriate to me.

    Greg
    Really? If Marc was bothered by it, I apologize -- I was trying to inject a bit of humor (though I applaud Jono -- he definitely did it better).

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Personally, I am pro-dotal.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    Great humor Jono. Thanks. This discussion needs more humor. It's not like it is life or death guys, and it is my impression that the OP was looking to invoke some fun into a discussion.

    Marc's grammatical error is nothing compared to others I have seen here. A correction publicly in the thread always make me question the poster's intention. A private message seems more appropriate to me.

    Greg
    You are a gentleman for noticing Greg - it was indeed my intention to make this fun (which it finally is!)

    Jono and I know each other in real life and when we get together we're both funny. On GetDPI it's just him. I must type with a smile on my face and not on my fingers...

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I don´t want to annect - dotally or totally or antidotally this philosophical excurs in semantics - but Shashin- if you would use this phone as a viewfinder for any back you will probably not need "viewfinder" app as the 808 has a 4x seamless electronic zoom if you use it in 16x9 HDTV video mode, 3x if you use it in 4x3 full res, the focal lenght starts as a 26mm in DSLR fullformat image angle. So maybe for viewing wideangles there should be a 0,5 x converter.

    At lower resolutions, the capabilities of the zoom increase, with 6X at 720p and up to 12X lossless zoom in nHD (640 x 360) recordings.

    regards
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Personally, I am pro-dotal.
    Better, I suspect, than the awful fate of being pre-dotal.

    . . . . although, perhaps that was what I was before Emma handed me a glass of wine . . . so maybe I can now aspire to being post_dotal.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    You are a gentleman for noticing Greg - it was indeed my intention to make this fun (which it finally is!)

    Jono and I know each other in real life and when we get together we're both funny. On GetDPI it's just him. I must type with a smile on my face and not on my fingers...
    Well, perhaps your subtle english humour isn't quite as easy to interpret as my crass stuff!
    It's time for another pint - are you up this way anytime soon?

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    Talking Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    . . . . . I once bought a car from Tim, and we're still friends, so it must be good
    But was it a 41 megapixel car, or only a puny 36 megapixel one?

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jcoffin View Post
    But was it a 41 megapixel car, or only a puny 36 megapixel one?
    Hmmm - it was a 2 year old Boxster S, so I'll allow you to asses the pixels!
    (I still mourn it's passing).

    One thing for sure, it wasn't puny! (and I loved it).

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think AntiDotal is a fab word . . . and I didn't know that anyone ever went to a camera club . . do such things really exist? How strange.

    I'm certain that if I went to a camera club I'd need something Antidotal afterwards . . . probably a large scotch!


    What an ignoramus I am for trusting to spell-check ... and frankly I didn't even notice.

    What we need are anecdotal notions for antidotal potions to counteract the effects of reading this thread ...

    -Marc
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post


    What an ignoramus I am for trusting to spell-check ... and frankly I didn't even notice.

    What we need are anecdotal notions for antidotal potions to counteract the effects of reading this thread ...

    -Marc
    Potions are always needed to counteract the effects of life. If you're sensible it might be an elderflower potion, if you're a little more adventurous it might be a nice Sauvignon blanc . . I've heard that the Macallan can be very effective (although I've never dared go that far myself).

    Incidentally, not sure what your input was to Irakly's S2 article, but I really enjoyed it!

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Potions are always needed to counteract the effects of life. If you're sensible it might be an elderflower potion, if you're a little more adventurous it might be a nice Sauvignon blanc . . I've heard that the Macallan can be very effective (although I've never dared go that far myself).
    I've had Macallan, but think it's going a bit too far. I tend to prefer the result from a blend of Sauvignon Blanc with Cabernet Franc (not blending the results, but breeding the vines together -- i.e., Cabernet Sauvignon).
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Potions are always needed to counteract the effects of life. If you're sensible it might be an elderflower potion, if you're a little more adventurous it might be a nice Sauvignon blanc . . I've heard that the Macallan can be very effective (although I've never dared go that far myself).

    Incidentally, not sure what your input was to Irakly's S2 article, but I really enjoyed it!
    Actually, I wasn't present for that actual test, (or I would have showed him how to capture RAW and Jpeg at the same time )

    However, he and I have played with my S2P enough for him to become interested in it as it relates to other choices.

    Next thing we want to try is res'ing up S2 files to compare against my H4D/60 files ... but we have to wait until it returns from its winter vacation in Denmark.

    -Marc

    BTW, I really do need a potion ... I've been sick as dog for 3 days and am getting semi-delirious ... so take anything I say as being a bit delusional

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Personally, I am pro-dotal.
    Being on the MF forum, I would be more afraid of not being sacerdotal, so as not to get into trouble with the High Priests
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 28th February 2012 at 19:01.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Why not just say that, instead of trying to prove it with questionable antidotal resources like camera clubs?
    If there was ever an antidotal camera club, this forum must be it. Antidotal to the poison of mammon. My coffers are empty but I do have a camera
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 28th February 2012 at 18:28.

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I'm staying out of the spelling conversations, you guys are nothing compared to me. In all seriousness I have a mental block on certain words even cheating I can't get them right and when I do than you'll know it ain't me.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  39. #239
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    However, he and I have played with my S2P enough for him to become interested in it as it relates to other choices.

    Next thing we want to try is res'ing up S2 files to compare against my H4D/60 files ... but we have to wait until it returns from its winter vacation in Denmark.
    I cannot wait for that, meanwhile get well soon

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    That Nokia 808 is a threat to the D800/E, no?
    The constant debate is funny. I stand at two choices;

    1. Keep on using my Leaf AFi-12

    2. Get a Nokia 808 and duct tape it to my Hy6.

    Looking at sample images from the D800/E, which of above am I inclined to do?

    The image of the lips in the article and its commentary is convincing, or not??? --- "Two-tone Lips. A close up of lipstick shows the color saturation and sharpness of the D800". That leaves duct taping the D800 to my Hy6 to not be an option... (the reason why should be obvious)

    In other words, with each new camera there is so much marketing (including in articles) and resulted imagined raving of how great the product is, thus in my humble view that article seems like a lot of BS.

    Duct taping the Nokia would make more sense, because it is smaller. Think pixel equal pixel equal same???

    Best regards,
    Anders

  41. #241
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I prefer to be a weapon of mass consumption! Get 'em all!!!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    2. Get a Nokia 808 and duct tape it to my Hy6.
    Monochrome: http://mochro.com

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I have a spelling checker
    It came with my PC
    It plainly marks for my revue
    Mistakes I cannot sea

    I've run this poem threw it
    I'm shore your please to no
    Its letter perfect in it's weigh
    My checker tolled me sew
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  44. #244
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Or more succinctly: "Putt knot trussed inn yore spiel chequer".

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    No fuel for the '24x36mm as good as MF' fantasy


    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post

    (...) I will need a DSLR for a project later this summer, so am holding off a bit to see what happens. Right now the regular D800 with AA and a handful of Nikon primes is on my radar (...)

    Jack, you are used to handle non-AA filter cameras, so how come you'd choose the standard version of D800 with Anti-Aliasing filter ?

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    Re: No fuel for the '24x36mm as good as MF' fantasy

    Quote Originally Posted by Steen View Post

    Jack, you are used to handle non-AA filter cameras, so how come you'd choose the standard version of D800 with Anti-Aliasing filter ?
    High pixel density has it's uses... particularly for macro, as DOF decreases with format size.

    My GH2 is a great camera for it's size and price, and, hand-held in low light, it would run rings round my H4D-60 (four times the MPx).

    If someone put a high-density, non-AA, 16 bit sensor in an MF digiback bundle so that we could use it on MF tech cams, it might be a great tool for macro?

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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    I was underwhelmed by the Nikon samples they lack the detail, sharpness and clarity of medium format. They have that Canon/Nikon Haze. They are certainly improved and blown the Canons out of the water but to say they are good as MF is a gross exaggeration and/or wishful thinking.

  48. #248
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Jameson View Post
    I was underwhelmed by the Nikon samples they lack the detail, sharpness and clarity of medium format. They have that Canon/Nikon Haze. They are certainly improved and blown the Canons out of the water but to say they are good as MF is a gross exaggeration and/or wishful thinking.

    Paul, I have a pet theory about this which is that we are all used to seeing MF images at 100% on screen and glorying in the AA free crispness of them. However, if you look at the Nikon at 50% zoom instead (which on a 100PPI monitor is a good emulation of a 200dpi print) then they look a whole lot better.

    Clearly the things that matter beyond pure resolution are noise characteristics, colour depth and DR. If we accept the DXO work on DR (and some people don't) then the DR of the D7000 sensor is about the same as the IQ180. The D800 sensor is, I hear, 1/2 a stop better than the D7000 in ISO performance and no worse in DR. Quite clearly the ISO performance of the Nikons is better than Phase. So with 36MP I think many people will be hard pressed to tell, at say ISO 100, the difference between the two in a 30" print unless there are particular colour subtleties.

    That's what I expect to find when I make the comparison, when my D800e arrives and if I can get my Leica R 50 F2 adapted for the Nikon in time to make the test.

    Of course for really subtly lit or coloured subjects, when optimally printed, at low ISO, many a discerning eye likely will see the difference.

    I am really looking forward to doing a 'blind tasting' on this and if anyone on the forum is ever in Sussex or London, and wants to volunteer when the time comes, they can just PM me here!

    ps The pixel pitch of the D800 is 4.9 and for the IQ180 it's 5.17 so other than the CMOS/CCD difference, it's not like one has very significantly 'fatter' pixels than the other...
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    interesting points Tashley.

    While I don't expect them to be as good as MF, i really am interested to see the inevitable tests that will be taking place.

  50. #250
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    Re: More fuel for the 'D800 as good as MF' fire

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Paul, I have a pet theory about this which is that we are all used to seeing MF images at 100% on screen and glorying in the AA free crispness of them. However, if you look at the Nikon at 50% zoom instead (which on a 100PPI monitor is a good emulation of a 200dpi print) then they look a whole lot better.

    Clearly the things that matter beyond pure resolution are noise characteristics, colour depth and DR. If we accept the DXO work on DR (and some people don't) then the DR of the D7000 sensor is about the same as the IQ180. The D800 sensor is, I hear, 1/2 a stop better than the D7000 in ISO performance and no worse in DR. Quite clearly the ISO performance of the Nikons is better than Phase. So with 36MP I think many people will be hard pressed to tell, at say ISO 100, the difference between the two in a 30" print unless there are particular colour subtleties.

    That's what I expect to find when I make the comparison, when my D800e arrives and if I can get my Leica R 50 F2 adapted for the Nikon in time to make the test.

    Of course for really subtly lit or coloured subjects, when optimally printed, at low ISO, many a discerning eye likely will see the difference.

    I am really looking forward to doing a 'blind tasting' on this and if anyone on the forum is ever in Sussex or London, and wants to volunteer when the time comes, they can just PM me here!

    ps The pixel pitch of the D800 is 4.9 and for the IQ180 it's 5.17 so other than the CMOS/CCD difference, it's not like one has very significantly 'fatter' pixels than the other...
    I fully back what you say here!

    I am still hesitating to say there will be no difference to MFD but once I have my D800E I will do some hard tests with my H3D39 and the D800E. Resolution wise pretty much the same, pixel size a big difference in this case, but I assume that the much more modern CMOS sensor of the D800E will simply outperform the H3D39 CCD (Kodak) in almost all areas.

    Wil be interesting to see how big the differences are. And if there is not much difference at all (which I actually secretly hope) then my MF gear simply can go, as I do only have it fro landscape work and absolutely have no need to mount my back on a tech camera - nor do I have any intention to go that way.
    Life is an ever changing journey
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