Lars
Active member
Some ads leaked: http://www.nikonrumors.com/
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Nikon MX ?
- Thread starter robmac
- Start date
A square sensor (just as originally rumored from Nikon) could provide 3:2, 3:4, 4:5, 1:1, 1:2 and anything in between plus horizontal or vertical framing without turning the camera or back, niether the sensor. One could accomplish desired final cropping in the raw converter. Tentative cropping and orientation could be done with crop lines in rangefinder or live view display. That would certainly be the first real camera of the 21th century.
Please read post #14.
Eduardo
PS. Sensors could be round, maybe allowing better yield and economy.
Please read post #14.
Eduardo
PS. Sensors could be round, maybe allowing better yield and economy.
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Ben Rubinstein
Active member
I can't see that Nikon would not put their excellent AF system into the camera, they have all the mature AF technology unlike Leica, they know how to make advanced AF lenses and it would be a huge point of contention for people coming from a 1Ds mkIII or D3 to have to switch to manual focus. I can't see that they would want to limit the market of the camera to the traditional MFDB market who need pro AF less when they can get so much more.
I think you're right - Nikon and Canon (eventually) offerings will probably be true 'tweeners - a hybrid of features from both:
AF (much larger lens mass to move and sport AF not needed) and ISO performance that sits somewhere in between an uber-DSLR and MFDB, 3"+ VGA LCDs (a big point for lots of folks) with say a 36x ___ sensor sans AA filter (if smart).
I suspect Nikon, if they don't drop the ball and price like I suspect they will (undercutting Hassy's lowest and the S2), will sell as many of these things as they can make.
AF (much larger lens mass to move and sport AF not needed) and ISO performance that sits somewhere in between an uber-DSLR and MFDB, 3"+ VGA LCDs (a big point for lots of folks) with say a 36x ___ sensor sans AA filter (if smart).
I suspect Nikon, if they don't drop the ball and price like I suspect they will (undercutting Hassy's lowest and the S2), will sell as many of these things as they can make.
Don't know about some of this stuff, and I guess that is why it is rumor ;-) The rumor ad leaks that Lars pointed to do not suggest a square sensor (BIG ads on that site). One could just as easily conclude that "BIG" refers to a larger LCD, though I hope that is not what Nikon is touting, even if it would be very nice on some models.
Again, not looking to dampen any enthusiasm or excitement, as I think it would be very interesting to see how companies like Nikon or Canon may try to approach moving up market into some realm of MF. I think they could do it. They may have things in the works. I also think that it will not be a "cake walk" for either, despite their present market shares and such in the 35mm segment. There is a lot of clamoring from discussions on our sorts of forums, but one has to wonder just how big the potential market would really be, and what folks would really be willing to pay, and how much of a major transformation in manufacturing would be required for things like a line of lenses. In some cases, with the huge growth of more recent DSLRs, the manufacturers may be scrambling to keep up with lens demand on some of the newer things. I just really do not know capacities and capabilities of them to know how easy or hard it would be to field a completely new and much different line of things while they may be all out keeping up with the other new stuff they are pumping out.
Assuming Nikon (or Canon) has some sort of larger than 35mm sensor in the wings, it most likely will not be terribly cheap for either, until there is some projection of enough volume to sustain things. If the goal is not so much to try to carve market away from the present MF segment, but to create new market growth or a new market segment that folks are calling the "tweener" segment, that could be a different and possibly attractive segment. Drawing sales from both existing MF folks that want a faster, smaller, more feature updated camera to deliver more than present DSLRs do today, as well as drawing folks from the higher end DSLR market that are looking for more resolution, DR, and things more associated with MF, but not wanting to give up the features of present DSLRs. Trying to build a new MF back and system approach like already exists would not seem to cut it, and probably why Leica has taken the approach they have. Pricing is still going to become a sensitive point. Needs to be attractive and match the perceived value. Support and service must also be put into place, and while that may seem easier, it may not be easy to match the demands of this group of customer expectations, especially on much more expensive gear that is going to operate a bit differently than the present DSLRs that are being churned out.
That can go from interesting to becoming a very tall order for anybody. Leica has sort of fired an attractive shot across the bow. Nikon and Canon could follow, but there are going to be some interesting new bars set with respect to quality, optics, utility, design, and things like that. Both seem able to live up to the challenges, (still hoping for some significant improvements in optics however), but there has to be a big enough projected market into which to try to launch this sort of thing, I think.
LJ
Again, not looking to dampen any enthusiasm or excitement, as I think it would be very interesting to see how companies like Nikon or Canon may try to approach moving up market into some realm of MF. I think they could do it. They may have things in the works. I also think that it will not be a "cake walk" for either, despite their present market shares and such in the 35mm segment. There is a lot of clamoring from discussions on our sorts of forums, but one has to wonder just how big the potential market would really be, and what folks would really be willing to pay, and how much of a major transformation in manufacturing would be required for things like a line of lenses. In some cases, with the huge growth of more recent DSLRs, the manufacturers may be scrambling to keep up with lens demand on some of the newer things. I just really do not know capacities and capabilities of them to know how easy or hard it would be to field a completely new and much different line of things while they may be all out keeping up with the other new stuff they are pumping out.
Assuming Nikon (or Canon) has some sort of larger than 35mm sensor in the wings, it most likely will not be terribly cheap for either, until there is some projection of enough volume to sustain things. If the goal is not so much to try to carve market away from the present MF segment, but to create new market growth or a new market segment that folks are calling the "tweener" segment, that could be a different and possibly attractive segment. Drawing sales from both existing MF folks that want a faster, smaller, more feature updated camera to deliver more than present DSLRs do today, as well as drawing folks from the higher end DSLR market that are looking for more resolution, DR, and things more associated with MF, but not wanting to give up the features of present DSLRs. Trying to build a new MF back and system approach like already exists would not seem to cut it, and probably why Leica has taken the approach they have. Pricing is still going to become a sensitive point. Needs to be attractive and match the perceived value. Support and service must also be put into place, and while that may seem easier, it may not be easy to match the demands of this group of customer expectations, especially on much more expensive gear that is going to operate a bit differently than the present DSLRs that are being churned out.
That can go from interesting to becoming a very tall order for anybody. Leica has sort of fired an attractive shot across the bow. Nikon and Canon could follow, but there are going to be some interesting new bars set with respect to quality, optics, utility, design, and things like that. Both seem able to live up to the challenges, (still hoping for some significant improvements in optics however), but there has to be a big enough projected market into which to try to launch this sort of thing, I think.
LJ
Lars
Active member
The latest leaked snapshot on that site depicts what looks like three sensor sizes in 3:2 format, could possibly be interpreted as DX, FX, and MX format. That would suggest that a square sensor is not in the pipeline.
http://nikonrumors.com/2008/10/03/nikon-mx-ad4.aspx
OR, this is retired marketing artwork for a product line that was never launched. Time will tell.
http://nikonrumors.com/2008/10/03/nikon-mx-ad4.aspx
OR, this is retired marketing artwork for a product line that was never launched. Time will tell.
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charlesphoto
New member
Ummm, BIG could just refer to an FX sized sensor with more megapixels, which has been expected from Nikon all along. I would imagine they are set to launch a 5DII and 1DsIII killer now that they got the pj market hooked with the D3/D700. I can't imagine Nikon creating a whole new system - they have a ways to go with the current one first (ie more mp sensor and new primes).
But who knows?
But who knows?
I am far from a die-hard CaNikon fan, but my Spidey sense thinks Nikon is going to step around the expected D3X vs 5DII debate/price war with something that is going to have Canon and Leica doing an "oh cr*p..". Think Hassy just got theirs out of their system proactively. Once MX is out (a lot of assumptions here), any D3X vs 5DII comparisons will just get lost in the background noise.
Much like the S2, a lot of ducks (albeit different ones) would need to be put into line to make it a success, but IF they're committed to doing whatever it takes to make it work, it will give the upper-end DSLR/lower-end MFDB apple cart a good hard tip. Canon won't be too far behind.
Much like the S2, a lot of ducks (albeit different ones) would need to be put into line to make it a success, but IF they're committed to doing whatever it takes to make it work, it will give the upper-end DSLR/lower-end MFDB apple cart a good hard tip. Canon won't be too far behind.
Lars
Active member
Rumors of an oversize-based Nikon have been persistent over the last year, something is likely in the works. What and when remains to be seen, but a lot of hints point at March next year.
I think as a brand strategy it would make sense - just like car manufacturers from time to time launch sports cars for bragging rights, a high-end Nikon DSLR (system) could be seen as an investment in brand name.
I think as a brand strategy it would make sense - just like car manufacturers from time to time launch sports cars for bragging rights, a high-end Nikon DSLR (system) could be seen as an investment in brand name.
ptomsu
Workshop Member
I think a high end MF like Nikon system would be more than just an investment in the brand name.
It looks like we are on the doorstep to a new future of MF, where a slightly smaller sensor size than real MF but anyway much larger than 35mm becomes the optimum between system size and weight, resolution, ISO performance and high IQ - just look at the new Leica S2 system.
This is because the sensors produced in such sizes are an optimum between the supersized MF variants and the smaller 35 variants. Resonably cheap to manufacture and with enough evolution potential for the future they seem to be a kind of stable platform to make camera vendors think they would want to build a high end camera system around.
So I would even argue this could be the end of classical MF photography, although this will not disappear, but will maybe become more a niche for high end studio work, while the new formats like S2 and MX become the high end and high quality reportage systems. Even capable of capturing fast sport events etc.
Anyway - interesting times have started. :toocool:
It looks like we are on the doorstep to a new future of MF, where a slightly smaller sensor size than real MF but anyway much larger than 35mm becomes the optimum between system size and weight, resolution, ISO performance and high IQ - just look at the new Leica S2 system.
This is because the sensors produced in such sizes are an optimum between the supersized MF variants and the smaller 35 variants. Resonably cheap to manufacture and with enough evolution potential for the future they seem to be a kind of stable platform to make camera vendors think they would want to build a high end camera system around.
So I would even argue this could be the end of classical MF photography, although this will not disappear, but will maybe become more a niche for high end studio work, while the new formats like S2 and MX become the high end and high quality reportage systems. Even capable of capturing fast sport events etc.
Anyway - interesting times have started. :toocool:
Indeed. Perhaps to get quality out of physical film the physical dimensions where required. Now with Digital it might be possible to do the same with a slightly smaller dimension. Time and testing will tell...
Ben Rubinstein
Active member
What I think is a definate is that the Nikon will be aimed squarely at it's 35mm crowd and not at the MFDB people. The market is far far bigger there and I assume it will be built with that in mind. No doubt far more like a D3 than an S2 and certainly not a Hy6.
I think 5 yrs from now, the term "DSLR" will have on a whole new meaning - as in "...what size (sensor) do you shoot...?".
The "MF" lexicon carried over from the film days will have little meaning - to replaced by "MFDB" for those DSLRs (if she has a mirror, she's a DSLR after all) cameras that have detachable backs.
The "MF" lexicon carried over from the film days will have little meaning - to replaced by "MFDB" for those DSLRs (if she has a mirror, she's a DSLR after all) cameras that have detachable backs.