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Thread: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

  1. #51
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Ken

    you know I like to provoke, but this is what may make a lively discussion. If everybody would be soooo relaxed about this, why the excited comments ? There is always a feeling that goes beyond what people "know" and the reactions show to me that of course even the hardest hardliners know that something is happening here. Of course it is too early to tell exactly what and how fast. But one thing is for sure: Nokia and Zeiss have shown that there is more than shareholder value and keeping a company just running with valid and prooved concepts. I mean Zeiss is (or should I say was) a more conservative company with very german strategic and turnaround orientated business ideas. Just think about that. Nokia may have a hard time now but they are still one of the largest Mobile Phone makers worldwide, do you think they goof around with some funny labstuff they just release to the public when they do not have any other ideas left ?

    I don´t think so !

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    Stefan
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Wayne you are right, the camera alone is not the whole package. But it looks really good even if you buy this as a camera alone - here is a video about the usage that is pretty interesting:

    Nokia 808 PureView Hands-On Video - YouTube!

    And even if this Phone fails, the concept will go into other cameras, I´m nearly 100 % sure.

    Regards
    Stefan
    The video is interesting.
    The demonstration of Bokeh is a macro... duh..

    Also his babble on zooming fails to mention the loss of resolution due to only capturing a fraction of the projected image of the lens. A lens only produces a finite amount of resolution over the projected image. 50 % Zoom by sensor cropping will lose 50% or the lenses potential resolution regardless of the format.

    Now what they really need is an endoscope on cell phones....

  3. #53
    jcoffin
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    50 % Zoom by sensor cropping will lose 50% or the lenses potential resolution regardless of the format.
    Well, a percentage anyway. Of course, most lenses are better at the center, so the percentage of resolution lost will almost always be less than percentage of the area cropped.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    I think there is a fault in your argumentations. If the lens resolves 100 % of the 41/38Mpix at no Zoom, then the resolution stays the same but only the filesize becomes smaller ! If you are only needing 5 or 8 Mpix you still have a fully sharp Image - but respectively smaller.

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    Stefan
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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I think there is a fault in your argumentations. If the lens resolves 100 % of the 41/38Mpix at no Zoom, then the resolution stays the same but only the filesize becomes smaller ! If you are only needing 5 or 8 Mpix you still have a fully sharp Image - but respectively smaller.

    Regards
    Stefan
    I guess what Fred meant was that cropping into a fixed focal length image to simulate "zoom" does not match the resolution of using a longer focal length - nor its enlargeability (since you've discarded 75% of the pixels). I'd agree.


    The zip-file images are indeed impressive. Poor S/N, and horrible bokeh in the closeups, but the resolution in at least one of the frames (the guy hanging by one hand) is much higher than I would have expected. Zeiss have done a good job on this lens.

    And of course, it's sensor area, not pixel count, that determines if something is "medium format" or not!

    Ray

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Totally agree with Fred. Regarding "simulated zoom": I think you all have to agree that this is a ridiculous feature... There is absolutely no benefit of a longer FL. It'd be best to capture the entire image and crop by yourself so you don't have to take the image's center.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Max

    take a look at the videos, you don´t have to zoom to the center. You point a frame wherever you want and it goes in with no delay. something no optical Zoom can do. And this Phone was not made to produce 38Mpix images in the first place. You can, but actually the approach was to have a lossfree zoom with 5 or 8MPix res in a mobile phone.

    Regards
    Stefan
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    Totally agree with Fred. Regarding "simulated zoom": I think you all have to agree that this is a ridiculous feature... There is absolutely no benefit of a longer FL. It'd be best to capture the entire image and crop by yourself so you don't have to take the image's center.
    Where I disagree with you is on metering. Depending on the camera, by zooming in (even digitally) you change the overall metering of the scene and depending on the light this can make a big difference. Panasonic implements this very well with their ETC mode in their cameras.

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    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    I guess I should have watched the video first before making a fool out of me...

    Terry you're right, I just haven't thought in mobile phone or p&s terms. It's been a while since I used anything but spot metering.

    I agree that this might be an interesting device with an intelligent solution to create exceptionally good iq but I just don't get what all the fuss is about. It's just a phone. With a camera.

    Sorry, I don't want to sound too negative. I welcome all improvement in digital imaging I just don't see myself ever using such a thing...

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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    I just downloaded the samples and like someone said... blimey.

    They are uber impressive.

    Yes, the tones are weird and the image is soft, the tonal range is ridiculous but... blimey. the amount of data is impressive. p&s are dead. why would you take the extra hassle of carrying a p&s which gives you marginal improvements over this ?

    blimey.

    no it wont kill MF or other specialized cameras, neither even DSLR but for P&S, its game over

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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    I read this AM that the symbian phone with this camera is jot going to be sold in the US.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    After thinking about it for a while, I would say the most impressive part is the lowlight capability. There are some samples shot by night of people moving fast nevertheless pin sharp at 5 or 8 Mpix and a very low color noise. I´d say about close to APS-C maybe not of the latest generation like a 7D but like a Canon 550. In regards of sharpness the downsampled image is certainly better than with a 18-55 kit lens !

    A mobile phone !!!

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    Stefan
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    no it wont kill MF or other specialized cameras, neither even DSLR but for P&S, its game over
    I would not be that rash.

    What if the future P&S cams come with a built in microwave oven or a coffee maker?

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    I always wondered why companies like Samsung or LG in Korea or Sony in Japan who do both P&S AND Mobile phones did not go the way of just taking a P&S and put a mobile phone inside. this probably would make them only a fraction bigger but incredibly more valuable for many people.
    I can just guess, the different divisons in these companies defend their claims and prevent this.

    How Stupid !

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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Panasonic just did it.

    Android Phone + Lumix Camera = Panasonic’s LUMIX Phone 101P For Japan | TechCrunch



    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    I always wondered why companies like Samsung or LG in Korea or Sony in Japan who do both P&S AND Mobile phones did not go the way of just taking a P&S and put a mobile phone inside. this probably would make them only a fraction bigger but incredibly more valuable for many people.
    I can just guess, the different divisons in these companies defend their claims and prevent this.

    How Stupid !

    regards
    Stefan

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Cool - finally !!!!

    Maybe now they wake up !
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  17. #67
    tanya111
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    Exactly its not about the no of pixels but its image quality also depends..and Nokia lumia 808 is having this feature.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    We are getting progress now: Nikon has announced the s800C

    First pictures of the upcoming Android Nikon Coolpix camera | Nikon Rumors

    Android based and Internet connected. Right on. The message has been understood !

    Regards

    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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  19. #69
    jatin
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    Re: Does 41 Mpix count as Medium format ?

    No,its not just like that..
    Even from this 41 megapixel camera the images seems more than enough clear just like they seems as real pictures.
    not only by name this 41 megapixel phone has proved its worth too.

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