Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    To be more precise, I was looking at the Leaf Aptus-II 5 with 9 microns pixel size. What are the advantages of this compared to larger MP backs with smaller pixel size.
    Is there anything immediately apparent with this size, and aside from costs and not necessarily needing more MPs, is it recommended?

    I know Dan L., shoots with one here and among others, and love what I see.

    Anything to share with me would be welcomed and appreciated.
    If I do take on this route, it may be the end of the year and used on my RZ Pro II (non-D). It will be the easiest step for into MF since I have one and three lenses (50, 110, 180).

    Thanks
    Po

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    Quote Originally Posted by pophoto View Post
    To be more precise, I was looking at the Leaf Aptus-II 5 with 9 microns pixel size. What are the advantages of this compared to larger MP backs with smaller pixel size.
    Is there anything immediately apparent with this size, and aside from costs and not necessarily needing more MPs, is it recommended?

    I know Dan L., shoots with one here and among others, and love what I see.

    Anything to share with me would be welcomed and appreciated.
    If I do take on this route, it may be the end of the year and used on my RZ Pro II (non-D). It will be the easiest step for into MF since I have one and three lenses (50, 110, 180).

    Thanks
    Po
    Many deem the 9 micron backs as somewhat "magical" ... many of the original 16 and 22 meg backs produced some spectacular imagery ... especially when using some legacy cameras/lenses like the Hasselblad V and Mamiya RZ. The 33 meg backs also seem to do well on these cameras.

    The draw back can be more moiré with certain subjects, and some of the 22 meg backs have limited ISO abilities. How far you can enlarge these images is obviously not in the same class as a 40, 60 or 80 meg back, but with today's technologies, that issue is somewhat mitigated compared to just a few years ago.

    The question you may want to explore is the difference between the Aptus-II 22 and 28 which I believe are the same price ... depending on your intended use, and how important the crop factors between each are on the RZ.

    Best of luck,

    -Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  3. #3
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    Many of us including me got our entry into MF with a 9 micron sensor and honestly a great way to jump in. On the RZ also a inexpensive way to get in the door. As Marc said moire can be a issue even shooting landscape given the subject matter of course. But that sensor is quite beautiful in its rendering. I had a p25 plus and it was a nicely saturated contrasty file. Think Kodachrome here and it's exactly what you will get from the Kodak chip. It has less DR than the P45 and now 60 mpx sensors but still up there. The Leaf sensor supposedly draws a little softer in look, contrast that is but I think a great sensor and a great entry into the fray. Go for it you won't be sorry but as Marc mentioned try to get the bigger sensor going on the RZ size that is. I don't know the sizing on the Leaf backs offhand.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    I shoot a RZ67 Pro II with an Aptus 22 back, which is essentially the same one you are considering (22mp, 36x48mm sensor). I really like the combo, great resolution from the RZ glass and really nice tonality. It's a good step up from my 1Ds III. Something about the big sensor and big pixels just works really well.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  5. #5
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    I have the Hasselblad CFV-16II with the 9 micron pixels and a friend of mine has the Leaf Aptus II-5 you are considering (nice to have the larger 22mp rectangular sensor!).

    I haven't seen many full res images from other MF digital backs, but the CFV-16 and Aptus II-5 definitely have a look that is superior to any 35mm DSLR images I've seen from Canon, Nikon etc. A friend of mine who shoots Nikon DSLRs and has a more discerning eye than my own commented that the CFV images had more depth and richness in the color. We had completed some side-by-side testing of his Nikon D700 and the CFV. With the CFV image cropped to a similar rectangle format as the D700, the resolution of the two cameras was close, but there was no doubt which images were shot with the CFV. I'd say the Aptus-II 5 would be a great entry point for you.

    Gary
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    Thank you so much guys for your informative answers. My other query would be as Marc suggests, and that is going to to higher MP Aptus II backs would serve me better, since the 28MP version would be same price. Also something about the 33MP being Dalsa sensor as well. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Thanks again,
    Po

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    91
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    I'd say that either the Aptus II-5 (22mp) or the Aptus II-7 (33mp) would be the preferred choice for the RZ given their larger sensor size. Both are 36x48mm sensors, however the Aptus II-7 is almost double the price. The Aptus II-6 (28mp) uses a smaller sized chip that is 33x44mm.

    I'm biased toward sensor size over the number of megapixels though.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  8. #8
    Senior Member bensonga's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,416
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    819

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheldon N View Post
    I'd say that either the Aptus II-5 (22mp) or the Aptus II-7 (33mp) would be the preferred choice for the RZ given their larger sensor size. Both are 36x48mm sensors, however the Aptus II-7 is almost double the price. The Aptus II-6 (28mp) uses a smaller sized chip that is 33x44mm.

    I'm biased toward sensor size over the number of megapixels though.
    That's exactly why my friend chose the Aptus II-5 instead of the Aptus-II 6.....larger sensor, lower crop factor.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    889
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    Would you say it loses it's magic in the rendering if I went in MP and down in microns?
    (22MP vs 33MP)

    Playing devil's advocate, dare I ask the following:
    Or is this a completely toss up, that 'today' one should just dive in fully and go with 40MP+ in general and never look back. Either way it's going to cost upwards of $7/8k. Or am I jumping ahead of things, and the Aptus II-5 should be first step, well you know, learn to crawl before you walk, not the Aptus II-5 is bad or anything or I can easily be blown away by it!

    Thanks
    Po

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    9 micron lenses work well with film lenses, and give you a small file.

  11. #11
    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    518
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    One unique thing about 9 microns: the only natively square, untethered backs have 9 micron pixels. They all use the square Kodak 16.7 MP KAF-16802 CCD.

    There are many other sensors/backs with more megapixels - 18MP, 22 MP, 28MP, 31MP, 33MP, 39 MP, 40MP, 50MP and 56 MP. But none of these buys you a larger sensor area (lesser lens crop factor) if you are cropping square, and some are actually worse (those with a 33mm short side). In fact, you have to move up to 60 MP or 80 MP backs to get a marginal (3.7 mm) gain in (cropped) square side dimensions.

    So if you like the square format, as I do, that 9 micron chip is a winner.

    I use an old, cheap Kodak DCS645M. A PhaseOne P20+ would be the best square back around but its IR-blocking filter is fixed, whereas the Kodak allows me to click off the filter whenever I want for some pretty spectacular and absolutely effortless infrared results. Even with a 780nm IR-pass filter, the exposures are the same as "sunny 16" in the same lighting.

    Ray

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    255
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Who can tell me more about 9 Microns?

    I've used both 9 and 6 micron backs - I don't think there is magic in the 9 micron backs.
    The magic is in the glass and the internal processing.
    Of course the more area of the glass you are using, the more "magic" you will get.
    9 microns do produce bad moire in some situations, sometimes to the point of non usability, even after post.

    The sensor size/crop is a pretty important factor to consider, but IMO not the most important one.

    In Leaf backs, you have four types of wafers the sensors are cut from:
    - Aptus II 5 - electronics from 2009, wafer from 2005
    - Aptus II 6 7 - electronics from 2009, wafer from 2006
    - Aptus II 8 10 - all from 2010
    - Aptus II 12 - all from 2010

    Aptus 5 6 7 are reworks of older models with improved functionality, but the limitations of the original wafers remain pretty much unchanged.

    Aptus II 5 sensitivity is extremely limited - very good at ISO 25 and 50; 100 already iffy. 6 and 7 maybe half a stop better, with 50 and 100 good, 200 shaky. With Aptus II 8 & 10 you are fine well into ISO 200. Also speed and long exposures are much improved.

    You don't want to be always so close to the limits of the sensor - if you can swing an Aptus II 8, then you will have much more freedom in your work.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •