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Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the 645D

Ed Hurst

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Just to muddy the waters, I have seen something a little like this on my 55 f2.8 (latest version) but I am not sure this is not due to element alignment. It is being serviced right now, so I will know more over time.
 

D&A

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Hi Leping and Ed,

I apologize for not seeing both your postings above. I haven't looked at this thread in a few weeks and wished I had seen your comments sooner. All very interesting! I haven't investigated the issue of the "blur zones" any further with regard to the FA 35mm 645 lens although a few other individuals did contact me and report they observed this too with their lenses. I suspect that some others have lenses with such optical anomalies but haven't looked for them specifically or don't even know about them. In fact I suspect most of the FA 35mm lenses have some degree of this.

I don't think the location of a blur zone is that random in a given sample of lens but just appears that way since I did observe that the location(s) and even size of a blur zone can change depending on the focusing distance the lens is set to. In other words, camera to subject distance. At times, especially with landscapes, a blur zone may fall in a relatively smooth area like a sky or in the deep shadows and it is easily missed. I still hold onto the theory that it is related to the pouring of the resin that is responsible for making the aspherical element. Of course I could be totally wrong.

As for reports of these blur zones in the A* 35mm 645 lens...I never noticed any in my short time with the lens but one person did tell me he thought he saw it in his lens...but that has yet to be confirmed.

Ed, very interesting that you mentioned something like that observed in your Af 55mm f2.8 645 lens. When I tested the samples of that lens, I thought I saw one blur zone on a small scale but had trouble replicating and finding it again on subsequent shooting on a different day with that lens. The other sample didn't appear to have that issue. I'll be interested to hear what Pentax says. Please keep us posted.

Thanks again for these interesting observations and thoughts!

Dave (D&A)
 

Jeffg53

Member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Having trawled through this, I'm eternally grateful to Dave for doing it, and GetDPI for being the place where someone would post such info.

However, I'm still left wondering how I would put a kit together. I am coming from a Hasselblad H4D 40 with 35-90, 150 and 210 lenses. These are all excellent lenses, and it never occurred to me that there may be much in the way of inter-unit variation.

My initial thought for a replacement was to buy a D800E with Zeiss glass, and a Nikon or two for AF. I then remembered the 645D. Having had a 645NII in the past, the attraction was very strong. I also loathe 3:2 ratio.

When I read the reviews, the words 'stellar' or 'excellent' seem to be missing. Additionally, inter-unit variation seems to exist often. I really don't want to get into buying and selling until I get a good lense.

Am I misreading this, or is that just the reality of Pentax today?
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Hi Jeff:

I’ve used many 645 and 67 Pentax lenses on the 645D and have followed the development of the camera and later lens reports (I supplied Lloyd Chambers with two of the lenses he tested). I can say without hesitation, based on my experience and all the reports I’ve read, that the 35mm A, 45-85mm, 75mm, 120mm, 300mm (645or 67) and 400mm will not disappoint you. I would classify the 35mm, 75mm, 120mm and 400mm as stellar. Some examples from the 35mm and 120mm (full and crop)


Tom
 

Attachments

Jeffg53

Member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Thanks Tom, any chance of getting the RAW files for those?
 

D&A

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Having trawled through this, I'm eternally grateful to Dave for doing it, and GetDPI for being the place where someone would post such info.

However, I'm still left wondering how I would put a kit together. I am coming from a Hasselblad H4D 40 with 35-90, 150 and 210 lenses. These are all excellent lenses, and it never occurred to me that there may be much in the way of inter-unit variation.

My initial thought for a replacement was to buy a D800E with Zeiss glass, and a Nikon or two for AF. I then remembered the 645D. Having had a 645NII in the past, the attraction was very strong. I also loathe 3:2 ratio.

When I read the reviews, the words 'stellar' or 'excellent' seem to be missing. Additionally, inter-unit variation seems to exist often. I really don't want to get into buying and selling until I get a good lense.

Am I misreading this, or is that just the reality of Pentax today?
Hi Jeff,

Am currently at work so I apologize if my response at the monment is brief. Tom mentioned some of the exceptional performing lenses in the 645 system that do well on the 645D body and I can certainly elbaorate my actual own personal experiences with them. As for sample to sample variability as posted in my comprehenisve lens testing, it's important to note a few things. Everyone's level of acceptability of a particular lens sample performance varies as to what is acceptable or not. Variations exisit and to what degree depends on which lens is being refered to. It not all that unlike some other medium format systems where sample differences could also be seen to varying degrees.

Another factor to consider is intented use and output. If it's for large sized large format printing, then of course differences often seen in lens samples may and can often be quite noticable. There are some cases where it didn't take a 24x36 inch print to relaize these differences. How important they are to ones actual work is of course both subject dependent as well as how exacting a lens performance is to the individual.

With all this said, I don't want you to get the impression that you have to go on a "looking for a needle in a haystack" approach to find good lenses for the 645D...on the contrary. Just keep in mind some of the findings I posted and for key focal length lenses that you will use primarily, take the usual precautions in purchasing a particualar sample lens. It's not very different than those who shoot Nikon and look for and expect a properly aligned and exceptional performaing sample of a high performance lens for that system. As you can see in the Nikon formums, even the best most expensive glass often has considerable variation and some look for a "good" sample. The recent Sigma 35mm f1.4 is a good example.

Keep in mind that many of these Pentax 645 lensees were designed in the film era, so they didn't require the as precise tolerances that are required by high performance digital cameras of today. Even Pentax and other Medium format digital manufacturers noted this when their users would try and use legacy film era lenses.

With all this said, maybe the key think to note with te 645D is AF fine tuning of each lens purchased. I found this was more important than anything else to exact the best possible performance from 645 lenses on the 645D. I am so thankful Pentax included this feature on the 645D.

After having shot with both the D800e as well as the 645D, I personally feel there is a substatial difference in the look of the files, espcially when printed large and there is a strong case for shooting with MFD in the 40MP range. Each system has it's strengths and weaknesses and I would venture a guess that the very reasons you or someone else enjoyed shooting with the hassy system over 35mm DSLR's would again find the same advantages shooting with the 645D. The system is an exceptional value and is one of the reasons is still extremely popular. Again these are simply my own personal views.

Dave (D&A)
 

Jeffg53

Member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Hi Dave,

Many thanks for that. I guess that my background is confusing me in this discussion. I expect to be able to wander around at 100% and see the same across a frame. The HC lenses that I had all deliver that kind of performance. When I read this post, I started to wonder, and worry.

I hear you loud and clear about MF vs D800E. That's why I'm looking before I leap. I don't want Phase. I'm really over big, heavy cameras. I'm just too old for it. I love my old 645NII and have started looking at it as a possible way of getting MF performance with less weight.

When I started looking at lenses, I could only find three for sale at B&H, the 55, 45 and 90. Is that it. Do I have to buy anything else used?
 

D&A

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

HI Jeff,

There are three "digital Specific" 645 lenses currently being produced by Pentax...the 25mm, the 55mm and the newest, which is the 90mm. Apparently the word is Pentax still has in production on a limited basis many of their legacy 645 lenses but generally when found new, can cost an arm and a leg (in some cases). Buying used with regards to Pentax 645 legacy lenses isn't such a bad thing. Many haven't been used very much and certainly no wheres near the extent that 35mm glass is...so some genuine "good buys" can be found.

I should have mentioned in my previous response that all of my lens tests and comments reflect on examining each test file at actual pixels (100%), so I definitely pixel peep when it comes to lens evaluations.

As for edge to edge sharpness with each lens, it can certainly vary and some focal lengths are noted to be stronger than others. Generally though an optimal sample of a given "good" lens will show more than adaquate sharpness across the frame with the emphasis on the highest resolution more towards the central part. In practical use this of course isn't an issue in most cases nor noticed in most types of imagery.

One thing that might set apart some of the Pentax 645 lenses (both legacy as well as some of the digital specific ones), is they exhibit a very film like quality on the 645D as opposed to ultra biting digital sharp images. This may be a consequence of slightly less microcontrast and in my opinion lens a very nice quality to the files, especially when printed. This also sets apart the 645D from many traditional current 35mm DSLR's in my opinion.

Dave (D&A)
 

Jeffg53

Member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Thanks Dave, film like is most appealing. That's one of the very appealing things about the OM D. I still shudder when I read 'optimal sample' 'can certainly vary' but I'll go away now and do a bit more research. Thanks for all your hard work on the Pentax lenses. It's been enormously helpful.
 

pier

New member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Thank you for the really useful thread for someone like me contemplating a move to the 645z. Just a question for Dave. Have you ever completed the test of the A-600mm with the 645D? What are the results? Thanks
 

tsjanik

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

I'm not sure if Dave ever completed his tests. I have acquired a 600mm since this thread was started and I find it, even with a 1.4x, superb. Stabilizing the lens at slower speeds is absolutely essential however. Some examples:

wide open @ f/5.6

_IGP8972 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

@f/11

_IGP1495 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

With the 1.4x

_IGP1004 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

Stabilizing device I assembled

_IGP1179 by tsjanik47, on Flickr

It's a great lens, but at 12 ibs. it's a handful.

Tom
 

pier

New member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Thank you for your reply. Beautiful pictures, congratulation.

Pier
 

Rich

New member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Dave,
Hi,

I'm a new member of this forum.

I'm an old guy who bought his first good camera, a Leica 3G, in Europe in 1958 and still have the camera.

Have you or any members tested the new 28-45 mm lens for the Pentax 645z? Seems like an excellent range for landscape.
Also, the the 33-55. I recently purchased this and it seems quite good but was wondering how well it did in testing if anyone has done so. It's the lightest of the zoom lenses that I have and convenient for carrying.

Thanks for any replies.

Rich
 

algrove

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Rich
I am a landscape kind of guy. Used the 28-45 for 2 weeks and found it well balanced on the 645Z even for walk around shooting. It is a beast and not for the faint of heart. The IQ seemed plenty good for me although I have not examined all my images as I am just back and have other pressing matters.

It is a sizeable investment and that should be considered versus a 35 and a 55/2.8 which leaves plenty of room for a third lens when looking at spending $5k.

Sorry not to have more IQ input as yet.
 
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Dave,
Hi,

I'm a new member of this forum.

I'm an old guy who bought his first good camera, a Leica 3G, in Europe in 1958 and still have the camera.

Have you or any members tested the new 28-45 mm lens for the Pentax 645z? Seems like an excellent range for landscape.
Also, the the 33-55. I recently purchased this and it seems quite good but was wondering how well it did in testing if anyone has done so. It's the lightest of the zoom lenses that I have and convenient for carrying.

Thanks for any replies.

Rich
Hello, and welcome to the river Styx :p

Regarding the 28-45 zoom- while I haven't gotten my hands on it yet, I am aware of the fact that this lens alone is about as large and heavy as the 645D/Z itself, so if you can imagine stacking on another 645 body, that's how big it is:



Shame it doesn't come with a foot... any lens over 1kg should come with a foot attached by default. If you're going to set this combo on a tripod, make sure you're using no less than a geared head and a mid-large tripod, like a Gitzo 3/4 series systematic or similar from RRS.

It is also claimed to be razor sharp from wide open and features stabilization, if that's any consolation, just be aware that if you take this lens along it's probably going to be the only one.
 

algrove

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Well, I used the 645Z and 28-45 on my Gitzo 2 series with RRS BH55 ball head and trying to dislodge it was not possible. The SR function does not operate when you use mirror lockup which I use all the time to be on the safe side.(you switch SR off on tripod) When hand held (with the 55) I can feel the mirror vibration when it goes up while pressing the shutter half way so that's what encouraged me to use mirror lockup all the time. The remote was a live safer in this mode.:grin:

On this trip I am discussing, I used a tiny Think Tank Airport Essentials backpack which easily contained the 28-45 in lowepro case, 80-160 in lowepro case, 55 in Pentax soft case, the 25 in lowenpro case and the 645Z body.:clap:
 

Rich

New member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Thanks, both, for your replies.

Suppose I should best rent the lens for a few days rather than take a chance of finding it too heavy to conveniently use.

Rich
 

algrove

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

No matter what you do be prepared for the weight this lens has at 3.25 lbs. It might be best to put some other gear on a scale to see how much they displace to get to 3.25 lbs.

The 35mm at 1.25 lbs, the 55mm at 1 lb and the 75mm at 0.5 lb only add up to 2.75 lbs and still a half pound less than the 28-45 alone.

The only thing about this lens for landscape work is that it does not have a depth of field indicator which comes in very handy and is on 645 prime lenses so I put the camera on maximum depth (DOF Priority Deep) when using this lens.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

I handled a 28-45mm lens--it is a monster, both in size and weight. I don't think it needs any special head or tripod. Now if the only focal lengths you will need are 28-45, then this might be a great lens. If you are thinking of others to go with it, then I might think again. If you are thinking of a light transportable system, there may be better options too. Although, the 25mm is not really lighter, it is a lot smaller, at least in comparison.

You can handhold the Pentax 645 camera very well. The shutter and mirror are very well dampened. "Feeling" vibration does not mean it is transferred to the image.
 

algrove

Well-known member
Re: Comprehensive Testing: Results & Observations with Pentax 645 Lenses used on the

Frankly, I was shocked at first as to the weight of the package, but having a 28-35 (35mm equivalent) lens is very nice for landscape use and I also used it extensively hand held in the Tucson Historico Barrio over 6 hours.

Agree the 28-45 is a hand full, but using it for hours in the field versus handling it are very different things IMHO and after very little use the weight was much less noticeable then when first handled and this is coming from a Leica M shooter who carries around camera with MF grip and lens which weigh less than the lens alone not to mention the 3.5 lb 645Z body.

After 2000+ exposures using the 645Z so far, my results show mirror lock up is the way to go for me. When I travel 8-9 hours with transfers one way on a travel venture, the last thing I want is to get back home and notice unexplained blur in some images. I will gladly error on the side of caution in this case.

As an aside, the 25mm is a whole pound less than the 28-45 and the difference is noticeable while 35/3.5 is 2 lbs lighter than the 28-45 lens. I found the 25mm wonderful to use since I often use an 18mm on my Leica M's when shooting landscape, but it felt less wide than when shooting a Leica M with the 18mm.
 
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