Site Sponsors
Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: options for 1st technical camera.....

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like

    options for 1st technical camera.....

    hi guys- first post here.

    little background.

    I have used a 4x5 field camera (toyo) , loaded film and have done my own platinum printing. Now I am using a Sigma SD15 to take seascape photos in San Diego and this is my main focus.

    Was thinking of getting back into view cameras but at this point there are no "wet" labs around here. there is a place called north coast and they do some work with the large format, but even they scan so I was thinking about getting into MF digital.

    one option for me would be to pick up a used Pentax 645D or try the Nikon 800E which is not MF.

    I have read here that many like the ALAP 12 with phase one backs.

    these look wonderful - but I want to keep it around 5k for everthing.
    that being a camera body, one prime, and one digital MF back.

    any ideas on what to buy in this 5k range ?

    thanks ,

    Rob

  2. #2
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Linhof Techno or C679. Arca Swiss has some nice cameras. Check Cambo.

    $5K for a camera, lens, AND a MF back might be a squeeze. If you wanted a camera without movements, that would be easier for the price.

    You could go with a D800 with a Nikon tilt/shift lens. That would be close to your budget. I don't think you could find a Pentax 645D body for $5K. But then it would not be the camera if you wanted movements.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Thierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Switzerland
    Posts
    329
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Dear Rod

    It will effectively be difficult, even in the second-hand market, to get a technical camera, a prime lens and a digital back.

    However, think twice before buying in a camera, do all the testing necessary and with your shooting conditions, then compare. Also compare the prices very carefully, including all accessories/features you wish to have (which some have with the basic camera as compared to some others where you need to buy separately).

    The Alpa 12 series of cameras are effectively used by many. All accessories manufactured by Alpa for the 12 series fit all cameras. You will find the right camera for each use needed in the 12 series.

    Alpa 12 Cameras

    Don't hesitate to ask here or by contacting me directly, should you have any question or request.

    Best regards
    Thierry

    Quote Originally Posted by trioderob View Post
    hi guys- first post here.
    ...

    I have read here that many like the ALAP 12 with phase one backs.

    these look wonderful - but I want to keep it around 5k for everthing.
    that being a camera body, one prime, and one digital MF back.

    any ideas on what to buy in this 5k range ?

    thanks ,

    Rob
    Thierry Hagenauer
    [email protected]

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    yes the ALPA 12 looks like a very fine product.

    I may be able to live without the tilt and shift as Iam interested in seascape images and dont do Architectural work. this would only be to get into the 5k
    limit that I have. I did enjoy the control of the 4x5 field camera that I owned.


    so what I need is a "poor mans " Alpa 12

  5. #5
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    4,043
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1253

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....


  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    455
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Tech Camera and digital back make Leica M9 look cheap :-( Even a used 5 year old 20-30 MP back is at least $4500-$5500. Alpa base "camera" - which is just a frame, you will still need lens, viewfinder, grips etc. - is about $2000 for the low end model. The viewfinder itself is about $2000. etc.

    Good luck.

  7. #7
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Houston TX USA
    Posts
    273
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Sadly, there are no real options in the price range you are looking at.

    A real working low end is some where in the 8.5-9.5K range, and that will require a bit of luck ..... Think 5K for a back, 2K for a body 2K for a lens. If you buy a kit, the dealer might throw in the other bits and pieces. You will need a tripod, and some type of ball head, and at least a shutter release, and depending a wakeup cable.

    The dealers keep the trade-ins pretty high, so the used market is pretty thin.

    Doing it on the cheap is never cheap in MF .... That's why folks on this forum have abandoned all hope.

    Dave

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    548
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Suggestion: break down your quest into two parts: digital and tech camera. You can do either one (sort of) for maybe $5k. Tech + film is still hard to get to at those prices. A used Cambo maybe? Or a 679 or Arca Swiss F line (used) are all fine too. Digital can be added later.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Quote Originally Posted by trioderob View Post
    hi guys- first post here.

    I have used a 4x5 field camera (toyo) , loaded film and have done my own platinum printing.

    Was thinking of getting back into view cameras .. so I was thinking about getting into MF digital.
    Rob
    Hasselblad Flexbody might be an option - if you could find anyone willing to sell you one.

    ¿Where is North Coast? ... last time I looked the USA did not have a north coast!

    If you were on the right side of the pond you could team up with me, or someone else here willing to let you use some of their (old) kit.

    ¿Does £5k go any further than $5k?

  10. #10
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Your just not going to get in the game at 5k let's be honest here. 10k you get some nice options . But just a tech cam with plate maybe the cheapest used say 2500 than a lens would be about the same. So your already there without a back. That's another 5 k.

    Nikon D800 3k and a really good lens 5k total. But it's not MF
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  11. #11
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Realistically, not going to happen. I'd suggest either:
    - upping your budget to absolute minimum $8k (much more preferably $11-13k)
    - renting
    - leasing
    - buying a dSLR and decent prime line*
    - shooting 4x5 color film and shipping it out
    - shooting 4x5 black and white film and processing at home

    Mind you I'm biased (our company specializes in selling the backs, bodies, and lenses you are talking about). So I'd love to tell you we could see you something that I'd feel good about for $5k total. We can't.

    *you won't even be able to buy a good Tilt-Shift lens and stay in that budget
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....


  13. #13
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Well, this might not be a tech cam but you could call it MFD...

    Mamiya 645 AFD - 750$
    Mamiya 50mm f/4 Shift lens - 530$
    Mamiya ZD Back - 2500$

    Figuring out you want more, better MFD gear - priceless...

  14. #14
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    Well, this might not be a tech cam but you could call it MFD...

    Mamiya 645 AFD - 750$
    Mamiya 50mm f/4 Shift lens - 530$
    Mamiya ZD Back - 2500$

    Figuring out you want more, better MFD gear - priceless...
    Without saying anything negative I would simply suggest googling around about the ZD back and ZD camera before purchasing one.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

  15. #15
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Berlin
    Posts
    387
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Without saying anything negative I would simply suggest googling around about the ZD back and ZD camera before purchasing one.
    I would suggest to do so regardless of what you are willing to buy, at least if it is not possible to try out yourself.

  16. #16
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKißler View Post
    I would suggest to do so regardless of what you are willing to buy, at least if it is not possible to try out yourself.
    :-) true enough!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    hey folks

    thanks for the input.

    I knew that my 5k limit might be a show stopper but wanted to at least ask.

    I am now thinking about the Nikon D800E

    not MF but about as close as I can get

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    159
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    Quote Originally Posted by trioderob View Post
    hey folks

    thanks for the input.

    I knew that my 5k limit might be a show stopper but wanted to at least ask.

    I am now thinking about the Nikon D800E

    not MF but about as close as I can get
    Indeed, $5k isn't much in the world of MF.

    That said, if you're interested in wide-angle technical camera shooting, it might be worth your time to look into the Hartblei H-Cam. Price for the camera, itself, is right around the same as anything else, but you won't need to purchase center filters or Copal shutters. The lenses, as well, being Canon-compatible, are also significantly cheaper. I've shot the HCam/24mm setup with my Aptus-II 12, and was rather impressed. I would say the Canon 24mm is hands-down a better lens than the Phase One 28mm D for wide-angle.
    --
    Gabe

  19. #19
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    If the "prime" lens you're talking about is not too wide (say 72mm) then there are very cheap ways of starting with MF...

    You can pick a field camera (such as Graflex) for next to nothing, with an LF lens

    (a wide angle lens is difficult / impossible to focus on such a camera)

    An older back, like a Valeo 17/ 22 will not be more than $2K but you'll have to find all the right bits that'll make it work portably (without a computer) but these will be cheap

    Bear in mind that you're not going to have any warranty so if something goes bad you'll loose money though...
    Good luck!
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,538
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    I just invested in a tech camera el cheapo.... but that meant ~$12K for camera plus three lenses, all second hand, and now I'm looking around for a second hand back to complete the system which will be $4K for a 22 megapixel one.

    I looked over prices and features for many systems and settled with a Linhof Techno. It is a quite expensive camera and not good for ultrawides (hard to focus) or focus stacking, but if you plan to have four-five lenses the low lens mount cost more than compensates.

    Of the pancake cameras I looked at alpa, arca swiss and cambo. Of those I would probably choose asrca swiss rm3di, builtin tilt is a plus for me, plus that I like the look of the camera :-).

    Anyway the D800 is a way better buy, and will most likely give better image quality than I will get from my "cheap" $16K system. The advantage I will have is that I can upgrade to higher mp backs in the future and then make use of the fine lens performance, plus that it is a tech camera so I have movements including tilt/swing for all focal lengths. The main weakness of the D800 I think will be sharpness in the corners of the frame, and less good wide-angle tilt-shift lenses than for example canon. But time will tell when people start to publish tests.

  21. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    51
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    That budget is tight but I have seen it done recently.

    Phase One P25 $5,000
    Cambo DS w/ Schn 35mmXL Lens $3,000

    1 Year Warranty

    The images this setup produces are much better than any 35mm camera system can produce.

    You can cut some corners and get a P20 instead but don't give up that composition of the p25 for square.

    And do not forget about the ability to upgrade that system down the road, I bet you can recover 90% of it towards a new system in one year. And it is a lot better than handling film, processing film, scanning film, and retouching dust.

    Good luck and get a demo from an good dealer, it is the only way to see it for yourself.




    Sincerely,
    Chris Snipes
    Sales Manager Florida
    Capture Integration

    Capture Integration Brands

    Phase One Partner of the Year

    404-522-7662 Atlanta
    305-350-9900 Miami
    877-217-9870 National
    813-335-2473 Cell

    Newsletter | RSS Feed
    Buy Capture One: 10% off
    Capture Integration Brands










    Quote Originally Posted by trioderob View Post
    hi guys- first post here.

    little background.

    I have used a 4x5 field camera (toyo) , loaded film and have done my own platinum printing. Now I am using a Sigma SD15 to take seascape photos in San Diego and this is my main focus.

    Was thinking of getting back into view cameras but at this point there are no "wet" labs around here. there is a place called north coast and they do some work with the large format, but even they scan so I was thinking about getting into MF digital.

    one option for me would be to pick up a used Pentax 645D or try the Nikon 800E which is not MF.

    I have read here that many like the ALAP 12 with phase one backs.

    these look wonderful - but I want to keep it around 5k for everthing.
    that being a camera body, one prime, and one digital MF back.

    any ideas on what to buy in this 5k range ?

    thanks ,

    Rob

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    112
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: options for 1st technical camera.....

    hey guys-

    just scored a Pentax 67 film camera for free !!!

    just the body - no lens - no finder



    which lens should I try to pick up on ebay for wide angle landscapes only ?

  23. #23
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    Shashin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    4,497
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    141

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •