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Thread: Couple of P1 questions....

  1. #1
    jmvdigital
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    Couple of P1 questions....

    Question 1... does the RAW capture with the P1 work the same as the RAW capture from a DSLR? I know with a DSLR raw file (i.e., Canon) the WB setting is fairly irrelevant as it doesn't change the image data one bit, it just appends the WB number for display purposes later on. Changing that WB from say 2000K to 8000K in post doesn't give you any better or worse result than actually taking the images at 2000K or 8000K. That's the very nature of RAW, no processing on the data coming out of the sensor, as the sensor has no way to change it's sensitivity based on a WB setting.

    Is this premise the same with these MFDBs?

    Question 2... are there any tricks with that pain-in-the-butt thin plastic viewfinder insert that P1 gives you? After feeling like I was going to rip it in half while pulling off the protective tape... I squeezed it into the chamber, on top of the focusing screen. I closed the focusing screen. The problem now is that the black frame is not lining up vertically with my captured image. The frame is too high in the viewfinder, except now when I pop the focusing screen down, the plastic screen stays wedged up against the prism inside the body. Any tips appreciated.

    Question 3... is there a merit to getting the split-view rangefinder focusing screen for manual focusing? It seems a bit difficult to tell critical focus in the viewfinder, at least with my eyes. Does the split-view screen inhibit the normal functions of the AF or metering system? Or can I get the best of both worlds with easy-to-see manual focusing and AF when I want it? Thoughts?

    Thanks guys.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Stop the mask goes under the focusing screen but you should have the right screen in with grids that you don't need it.

    Make sure you have your diopter set for your vision.
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  3. #3
    jmvdigital
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Hmm. Sh*t. I put the sheet on top of the screen and sandwiched it up in the viewfinder. I don't see any grid on plain viewfinder, just the center circle with side pieces. The image has a much smaller crop than what I see in the viewfinder.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Call Chris today . Sounds like they don't have the right screen for your P30 plus.
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Sounds like you got the P25/45 masks instead of the ones for the P30 crop. And for sure, that mask has to go between the support frame and the screen.
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Justin

    I used to use the manual focus screen when I was using MF lens and found they helped a lot.

    I'm of two minds on the plastic crop screen for the P30; love hate relationship. It truly is a PIA to get it set correctly but once in it works. I tried shooting without it for awhile and really didn't lose much but then again all I do is landscape. I've got it installed on my Phase body now and like it. Guess I'll get to take it off once the P45+ arrives.

    There is a guy who make custom screens that includes the crop lines but can't think of his name.

    Keep shooting and show us samples!

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Justin if they can't get you the P30 screen out right away . I actually have one that you can borrow but get on the phone now . Phase in NY needs to get one out to you
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  8. #8
    jmvdigital
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Guy, the set of 5 plastic overlay screens seems to be about the right size according to my images, but the positioning is off, perhaps made worse because I have the overlay in over the regular focusing screen. I will take out the screen, and attempt to place it below and see what happens.

    To confirm, the thin P1 film should sit up against the metal frame that folds down when you release the focusing screen? So that when you close the focusing screen to a shooting position, the P1 frame film is what you would touch on the outside of the focusing screen.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Exactly correct

    From bottom up frame, mask, focusing screen. Close
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  10. #10
    jmvdigital
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Thanks Guy. Any more info on Q1 or Q3?

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    I think you are safe with a split screen and won't affect anything. And question one it really should not matter if i understand your question correctly. You can shoot at any kelvin and than correct but I would make sure of this with Doug because if you shoot at the completely wrong kelvin you could be leaving out important color data when correcting.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Hi Justin,

    Re. the focusing screen: handle it carefully because is scratches very easily. The plastic material is quite soft actually.

    I'm disappointed that P1 does not work out an arrangement with Mamiya to get the screens cheaply enough to simply make mods directly on the screens and provide them with the back. In June the screens were just $130 at B&H, but are now $200. (BTW: Mamiya makes tweezers for gripping the screens which are quite helpful. I bought a gently used AFDII earlier this year, but the owner had scratched his screen while messing with the masks. He replaced it for me after I asked about it, which was quite nice of him.)

    Re. WB outdoors: I'm a big histogram watcher, but in my first outings I found that outdoors I was clipping the blue channel and getting funky results. I couldn't quite see it on the LCD outside until I knew to look for it. Also, the current version of C-1 (version 4.1 non-Pro) opens files in the default of "Flash" color balance, rather than "Daylight", and also at 4400 K, so those will both need to be adjusted as you work your RAWs. Hopefully the new Pro version will allow for setting the defaults of these and other settings (such as sharpening) so that I can retain a bit of my hair.

    Good luck to you!

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    It will Dale from what Doug has told me . 5 days and counting for the new version
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by jmvdigital View Post
    Question 1... does the RAW capture with the P1 work the same as the RAW capture from a DSLR? I know with a DSLR raw file (i.e., Canon) the WB setting is fairly irrelevant as it doesn't change the image data one bit, it just appends the WB number for display purposes later on. Changing that WB from say 2000K to 8000K in post doesn't give you any better or worse result than actually taking the images at 2000K or 8000K. That's the very nature of RAW, no processing on the data coming out of the sensor, as the sensor has no way to change it's sensitivity based on a WB setting.

    Is this premise the same with these MFDBs?

    Question 2... are there any tricks with that pain-in-the-butt thin plastic viewfinder insert that P1 gives you? After feeling like I was going to rip it in half while pulling off the protective tape... I squeezed it into the chamber, on top of the focusing screen. I closed the focusing screen. The problem now is that the black frame is not lining up vertically with my captured image. The frame is too high in the viewfinder, except now when I pop the focusing screen down, the plastic screen stays wedged up against the prism inside the body. Any tips appreciated.

    Question 3... is there a merit to getting the split-view rangefinder focusing screen for manual focusing? It seems a bit difficult to tell critical focus in the viewfinder, at least with my eyes. Does the split-view screen inhibit the normal functions of the AF or metering system? Or can I get the best of both worlds with easy-to-see manual focusing and AF when I want it? Thoughts?

    Thanks guys.

    Justin:

    1#

    You are correct RAW workflow does not matter when you apply the white balance. The camera can set it for you and then you can over ride that without any loss of quality to the RAW file.

    3#

    Make sure your eye piece setting is correct for your eyes by adjusting the diopter setting on the P645 body. Mamiya makes an eye piece magnifier that works nice with the wider angle lenses.

    As far as the mask, your Phase One 645 body should have come with a ground glass that shows the markings where the P30 crops the image. Some like to black this out so you see what you capture. I have many customers that have also bought Mamiya screens that have this crop for the P30 also. The Phase One 645 body is the first Phase One product that has shipped with new ground glass with etched mask and is ready to go when it comes out of the case. The old H series H10 also came with a new ground glass that was etch. This was a great way to solve the issue with you having to insert that mask under the focusing screen. Make sure it it is snapped back into it's place because if not it could keep the body from working properly.





    Good Luck,



    Chris Snipes
    Image Productions, Inc
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Chris,

    I was not aware of this new ground glass focusing screen. Is it also available for the P25+/P45+ back crop? I was thinking of customizing a new screen myself so I could eliminate the mask all together in my AFDII, but I plan to upgrade to the Phase One body at some point anyway. I'd prefer to remove the mask from my current body because it reduces (slightly) the brightness of the viewfinder and catches more dust.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by jmvdigital View Post
    Question 1... does the RAW capture with the P1 work the same as the RAW capture from a DSLR? I know with a DSLR raw file (i.e., Canon) the WB setting is fairly irrelevant as it doesn't change the image data one bit, it just appends the WB number for display purposes later on. Changing that WB from say 2000K to 8000K in post doesn't give you any better or worse result than actually taking the images at 2000K or 8000K. That's the very nature of RAW, no processing on the data coming out of the sensor, as the sensor has no way to change it's sensitivity based on a WB setting.

    Is this premise the same with these MFDBs?

    Question 2... are there any tricks with that pain-in-the-butt thin plastic viewfinder insert that P1 gives you? After feeling like I was going to rip it in half while pulling off the protective tape... I squeezed it into the chamber, on top of the focusing screen. I closed the focusing screen. The problem now is that the black frame is not lining up vertically with my captured image. The frame is too high in the viewfinder, except now when I pop the focusing screen down, the plastic screen stays wedged up against the prism inside the body. Any tips appreciated.

    Question 3... is there a merit to getting the split-view rangefinder focusing screen for manual focusing? It seems a bit difficult to tell critical focus in the viewfinder, at least with my eyes. Does the split-view screen inhibit the normal functions of the AF or metering system? Or can I get the best of both worlds with easy-to-see manual focusing and AF when I want it? Thoughts?

    Thanks guys.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Chris,

    I was not aware of this new ground glass focusing screen. Is it also available for the P25+/P45+ back crop? I was thinking of customizing a new screen myself so I could eliminate the mask all together in my AFDII, but I plan to upgrade to the Phase One body at some point anyway. I'd prefer to remove the mask from my current body because it reduces (slightly) the brightness of the viewfinder and catches more dust.

    Yes every Phase One P645 body I have received had the correct focusing screen installed from the factory that corresponded with the type of back the camera was ordered with. This goes for both new P+ and P Factory Refurb backs. Now if you bought an AFD II body and then bought the back for it, this comes with mask like we have been discussing. I think that this is a really nice way to package the P645 systems, they come with ground glass installed which has the etched markings for the type of back you ordered.

    Those have also shown up as a part on the P1 price list.

    Phase One Part # 70754 for P21/P30 $150.00
    Phase One Part # 70755 for P25/P45 $150.00



    Chris Snipes
    Image Productions, Inc
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalcameraman View Post

    Those have also shown up as a part on the P1 price list.

    Phase One Part # 70754 for P21/P30 $150.00
    Phase One Part # 70755 for P25/P45 $150.00
    Wow, that's very nice to see. Do you know if the replacement part is glass and not plastic? Also, will it fit the AFD II?

    I was shocked to see the Mamiya replacement screen jump in price from $130 to $200 and wondered if they had also been changed in some way.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Hi Justin,

    Re. WB outdoors: I'm a big histogram watcher, but in my first outings I found that outdoors I was clipping the blue channel and getting funky results. I couldn't quite see it on the LCD outside until I knew to look for it. Also, the current version of C-1 (version 4.1 non-Pro) opens files in the default of "Flash" color balance, rather than "Daylight", and also at 4400 K, so those will both need to be adjusted as you work your RAWs. Hopefully the new Pro version will allow for setting the defaults of these and other settings (such as sharpening) so that I can retain a bit of my hair.

    Good luck to you!
    I believe you are confusing ICC Profile with White Balance. The default ICC profile is flash, but the default WB is "as shot" (meaning whatever you set in camera, or the "set capture white balance" if you shot tethered).

    The ICC Profile's "Flash" and "outdoor daylight" are almost identical.

    Those masks are a pain in the butt. Once you get them set though they don't move. The aforementioned etched glass screens are the way to go and can be ordered from any Phase One dealer.

    Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
    Personal Portfolio

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    I believe you are confusing ICC Profile with White Balance. The default ICC profile is flash, but the default WB is "as shot" (meaning whatever you set in camera, or the "set capture white balance" if you shot tethered).

    The ICC Profile's "Flash" and "outdoor daylight" are almost identical.

    Those masks are a pain in the butt. Once you get them set though they don't move. The aforementioned etched glass screens are the way to go and can be ordered from any Phase One dealer.

    Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer
    Personal Portfolio
    Doug,

    Thanks for the reminder and clarification. Of course, you're quite right about the ICC profiles. And the "Flash" and "Outdoor Daylight" are very similar, but in my application not identical Daylight is better for me. Frankly, I'm still much more comfortable with my Bridge/ACR workflow so always appreciate your comments here re. C1.

    In my case, I sold my Elinchroms, never shoot tethered, no longer even own a strobe of any kind (don't enjoy flash photography anymore). I do shoot in artificial light for some product work, but custom WB works great with the P1 back. Now I'm putting together some custom full-spectrum "hot" lights for my product needs, so this will be even easier going forward.

    Re. the glass screens: do they fit the AFD II as well?

    Thanks again,

    Dale

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Justin,

    Doug or I can help you with your installation of the viewfinder mask if you like,
    as well as give you some tips on C1. Don't forget that there is a great help menu in the C1 software itself. In the header, look under HELP and tab down to Capture One PRO help. It will show you step-by-step instructions on how to capture, white balance and several other ways to improve your workflow.

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Allyn View Post
    Doug,

    Thanks for the reminder and clarification. Of course, you're quite right about the ICC profiles. And the "Flash" and "Outdoor Daylight" are very similar, but in my application not identical Daylight is better for me. Frankly, I'm still much more comfortable with my Bridge/ACR workflow so always appreciate your comments here re. C1.

    In my case, I sold my Elinchroms, never shoot tethered, no longer even own a strobe of any kind (don't enjoy flash photography anymore). I do shoot in artificial light for some product work, but custom WB works great with the P1 back. Now I'm putting together some custom full-spectrum "hot" lights for my product needs, so this will be even easier going forward.

    Re. the glass screens: do they fit the AFD II as well?

    Thanks again,

    Dale


    Dale:

    The Mamiya Rep who attended the P1 dealer rollout that I attended confirmed that the focus screens that ships with the Phase One 645 camera body does in fact fit all previous AFD camera bodies. I have not tried this but this was a question that was confirmed by Mamiya.

    These look like the factory Mamiya focus screens that have been laser etched for accuracy. Both my P30+ and P45+ are very accurate because they fit the camera and cannot slip around like the plastic mask.

    So that would be yes.

    Chris Snipes
    Image Productions, Inc
    Phase One Expert

    www.imageproduction.com
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Mine has the laser etching and i should have mentioned that earlier mine becuase the body came later than the back had a P30 Plus in it and Bo from Phase shipped me out a P25 screen right away. If not etched than let Chris or Doug know since you got your back there. Dale you should order the new screen it is really nice, any Phase dealer can do that for you
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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    Thanks, Chris, for the confirmation.

    Guy, it sounds like a great solution to a little annoyance. Did you black-out the outside perimeter of the screen, or just leave it to use the etched frame for P25+?

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    Re: Couple of P1 questions....

    I left the outside alone which I like to see what is outside the frame for composing but you could always use a sharpie and black it out but again it is really pretty close to FF 645 anyway as you know. So i left mine alone
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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