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Thread: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    So did nobody else notice on the phase one industrial site that they list the 240 LS ...
    Phase One 240 LS

    Question is, when is this going to be available for the DF? (assuming of course that there is any difference) It seems strange that it's only listed on the industrial site.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    I think it was announced awhile back. Love to try it
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    I'd heard about it for quite a while but no sign of it on the normal site, just on the industrial site!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    It's been announced along with the 75-150 LS f/4.0-f/5.6, priced and is available for Pre-Order.
    I guess they just have not gotten around to updating the New Website.

    FYI:
    70295 Schneider Kruezanach LS 75-150mm f/4.0-5.6 AF - $5,490
    70294 Schneider Kreuznach LS 240mm f/4.5AF - $5,790

    We already have quite a few on order. From the last I heard it they should ship within the next few months.

    Lance (email me)
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    That lens looks very sexy

  6. #6
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    It's been announced along with the 75-150 LS f/4.0-f/5.6, priced and is available for Pre-Order.
    I guess they just have not gotten around to updating the New Website.

    FYI:
    70295 Schneider Kruezanach LS 75-150mm f/4.0-5.6 AF - $5,490
    70294 Schneider Kreuznach LS 240mm f/4.5AF - $5,790

    We already have quite a few on order. From the last I heard it they should ship within the next few months.

    Lance (email me)
    Phase One don't exactly like to give us a very exact timeframe do they Lance.

    Please tell them from me that I expect summer to be in the next few months.

    I thought they might like to know.

    Will

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    I always thought that 'few' meant three or so. Maybe in Denmark it means 18-24 months. Kind of like the meaning of ma˝ana doesn't mean tomorrow in most latin countries.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    FWIW my dealer in Toronto is "suggesting" May delivery......I also heard from a Phase person that May looked "likely"....
    Bill

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    Senior Member vieri's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I always thought that 'few' meant three or so. Maybe in Denmark it means 18-24 months. Kind of like the meaning of ma˝ana doesn't mean tomorrow in most latin countries.
    ...now Graham, you are so wrong: "ma˝ana" actually means tomorrow - say they tell you "ma˝ana" today, and tomorrow you go and ask them again, they'll rightfully tell you "ma˝ana", as they said already, thus keeping their word impeccably; then you go the next day, and they tell you "ma˝ana", and so on... Same with Phase: they tell you "a few months", and a few months later they will tell you "a few months", and so on... this is globalization at its best: Denmark join hands with the Latin world!
    Vieri Bottazzini
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Reminds me of a sign I remember stoppting in a bar in Groveland California.

    "Free Beer Tomorrow"

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Just looked at the images of this lens on the Phase industrial site....... That's one ULGY looking lens. Beer goggles on when appreciating the aesthetics of that monster!

    I sure hope it performs better than it looks.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    and an 86mm filter thread size.


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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Just looked at the images of this lens on the Phase industrial site....... That's one ULGY looking lens. Beer goggles on when appreciating the aesthetics of that monster!

    I sure hope it performs better than it looks.
    I'm assuming that much of what we see is a sliding lens shade, like the 300 mm Mamiya - but I'm far from sure!

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    May 2013?

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Where is the IS/VR button?

    Just kidding, but sure would be nice.
    Paul

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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    F4.5 is so slow for a 645 format lens though. Mamiya had 250/4.5 leaf shutter lenses for their big 6x7/6x8 cameras; surely they could beat that for the smaller format 645DF. In fact it's a pity that all the new LS lenses are so conservative in aperture. Maybe Schneider are the problem here.

    Ray

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Anybody have an idea about delivery date? I was initially told May but now I'm getting August - which may mean anything!
    Bill

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    Senior Member MaxKi▀ler's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    F4.5 is so slow for a 645 format lens though. Mamiya had 250/4.5 leaf shutter lenses for their big 6x7/6x8 cameras; surely they could beat that for the smaller format 645DF. In fact it's a pity that all the new LS lenses are so conservative in aperture. Maybe Schneider are the problem here.

    Ray
    I wouldn't blame this on schneider nor on any lens manufacturer. It's just a fact that you need huge glass elements and a huge lens barrel in general to get a wide opening. I suppose it just wouldn't be economical and prices would be even more exquisite. Bear in mind that many users of this system shoot with flash and the idea of a leaf shutter lens is simply to use fill flash. So does the aperture opening matter? And would it be wiser to have a f/4,5 that is usable or a f/2,8 that is extremely soft? I mean the difference between F/2,8 and f/4,5 is merely 1,3 stops.

    Regarding image circles: The longer the FL the larger the image circle. You could actually use one of Canons longer fast lenses on a larger format if it wasn't for flange distances and the fact that the barrel decreases the image circle so only the center part of it hits the sensor.
    The same happens with 645 long FL lenses. The image circle is decreased to a certain degree since reflections off of the ir cut filter and in the mirror box would lead to ghosting or whatever kind of effect on image quality.

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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKi▀ler View Post
    I wouldn't blame this on schneider nor on any lens manufacturer. It's just a fact that you need huge glass elements and a huge lens barrel in general to get a wide opening. I suppose it just wouldn't be economical and prices would be even more exquisite. Bear in mind that many users of this system shoot with flash and the idea of a leaf shutter lens is simply to use fill flash. So does the aperture opening matter? And would it be wiser to have a f/4,5 that is usable or a f/2,8 that is extremely soft? I mean the difference between F/2,8 and f/4,5 is merely 1,3 stops.
    Max, are you forgetting that Mamiya already made 200/2.8 and 300/2.8 APO lenses for the very same 645 format?

    Do they have huge barrels? No...

    Are they extremely soft at f/2.8? No...(trust me, I have the 200/2.8 and it's in another league of image quality to most MF lenses).

    Does a mere 1.3 stops matter? Yes, to me...even 1.0 or 0.7 stops matters.

    Can a leaf shutter be put in a fast medium format lens? Yes...look at Rollei (80/2, 110/2, 180/2.8, 300/4).

    Yeah, 3 of those 4 Rollei speed demons were Schneider lenses, so maybe it's not a Schneider thing...the conservatism could well originate with Phase One who commissioned the LS lenses and who, let's face it, do not have any pedigree in lenses.

    Sure, a faster lens would be more expensive. Looking at the prices people are already paying for P1 systems and LS lenses, I think it would still sell.

    Now, you mentioned fill flash. This is a fairly long telephoto, so in most situations it will be used with the subject at some considerable distance away. Flash reach therefore becomes an issue. How do you extend flash reach? By opening up the aperture. You then need a faster shutter to avoid ambient overexposure, so you're covered with the 1/1600 speed of the LS. That, combined with the extra "medium formatness" of really large aperture bokeh, makes a compelling case in my view.

    Ray

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    Senior Member MaxKi▀ler's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Ray,

    I'm aware of Mamiyas fast APO lenses, but you have to admit that they are rather large in comparision. The 210mm f/4 ULD is considerably smaller than the 200mm f/2,8 for example. All I'm saying is, because you mentioned the Sekor (Z or K/L they're both the same lens) 250mm f/4,5 for RZ/RB, that you just cannot say: let's squeeze the image circle to a smaller format to get more light to the sensor plane. You just wouldn't maintain the same FOV. As far as I know, it's not possible to make the lens faster without making it larger.

    But you're right, this a decision the Phase One group has to make. Focussing on more "ergonomics" like compactness and portability or faster but bulkier and more expensive designs. Then again, we're talking about a lens that is very likely to perform outstanding, it's not like they'd be producing total crap... It's only up to you as a customer to decide whether you like the bone they throw at you are not. (I'd personally go with liking it since you're not having a real choice anyway...)

    Regarding fill flash: I don't see the issue there. It's rather the opposite, a longer FL gives you a narrower FOV therefore you have an even greater choice of positioning your flash unit.


    Max

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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKi▀ler View Post
    You just wouldn't maintain the same FOV. As far as I know, it's not possible to make the lens faster without making it larger.
    No argument there.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKi▀ler View Post
    Regarding fill flash: I don't see the issue there. It's rather the opposite, a longer FL gives you a narrower FOV therefore you have an even greater choice of positioning your flash unit.
    Ah, good point. I was only considering on-camera flash - the only way I shoot fill flash.

    Ray

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    I had also heard a rumor that there would or could be a 2x teleconverter for this 240mm lens on the horizon. Given that it is an f/4.5 design, a 2x TC just isn't workable from a light loss standpoint.

    Wildlife photographers are a tough bunch to please!

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Interesting rumour about the 2x TC, Andy.

    IMHO, the single most overdue item in the Mamiya stable is a 1.4x TC.

    Not overdue in the sense that they announced it but have yet to deliver - overdue in the sense that they should have had one 20 years ago, when they introduced the superfast APO lenses!

    Ray
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Well, it's a year since I plonked down my deposit on this lens - anyone heard anything?
    Bill

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    I do know it was on location on the last PODAS event in Monument Valley....

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Well, it's a year since I plonked down my deposit on this lens - anyone heard anything?
    Bill
    I personally think it is disgusting dealers taking money for a lens that doesn't exist and they should be ashamed of themselves. The dealers pay nothing up front to order stock and I'm surprised after such a long time a refund has not been given.
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Looks like the 240 LS's are finally coming through. Mine (ordered in early 2012) was due into my dealer yesterday though I won't be able to pick it up until the beginning of January.

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Indeed. We've been notified that we should expect imminent delivery sufficient to clear our backlog, and even one extra for sales inventory. So if you want one without waiting I'd estimate you have about 4 hours before it's spoken for.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    My dealer in Toronto tells me mine should be in in January too. Apparently they had to redesign the shutter which was too small for the lens, hence the delay.

    Bill

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    Interesting rumour about the 2x TC, Andy.

    Not overdue in the sense that they announced it but have yet to deliver - overdue in the sense that they should have had one 20 years ago, when they introduced the superfast APO lenses!

    Ray
    Mamiya 300mm f/2.8 APO Lens Review with Sample Images and Comparisons | Brian Hirschfeld Photography

    There is a 2x TC for the APO lenses, it is the "Mamiya M645 Teleconverter 2X N" and it works very well with the 300mm f/2.8 APO and I have seen it used with the 200mm f/2.8 APO and it also works with the Mamiya 150mm f/2.8N (and 300mm f/4N etc) which I have been told is derived from the same design or something.... but anyway this TC does not work with the Mamiya 300mm f/4.5 AF lens.....I found out that apparently soon the Hasselblad 1.4x teleconverter will work AF on the H-series cameras via a firmware update....personally I think that the Pentax645D is still the best hope for the "wildlife" photographer since they have a 400mm AF lens.....plus they have the 600mm 67 and the 800mm 67 lenses but then again there are adapters for the 67's to be used with all sorts of medium format cameras....but not AF...

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS



    B3K Digital in Toronto has it in rentals now, so they're out there.

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    We now have a few in stock that are not spoken for, along with one in our rental/demo inventory.

    On our blog I've written up some initial impressions on the Schneider 240mm LS and the Rechargeable Battery.

    Here is a comparison to other Schneider LS and Phase One D lenses.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Well, it was a long wait (more than a year) but my 240LS arrived today. Too late to do any meaningful testing as it was getting dark, but my first impression is that it's heavy and very well built. A couple of hand-held shots at full aperture look very promising.

    I'll be putting it through its paces tomorrow and will post some results.
    Bill CB

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Here's a quick look at a test shot. IQ180, DF, full aperture, f4.5, ISO 35, MLU, Gitzo, Cube. All processed at C7 defaults with +50 highlight recovery.

    First is the full scene composed to get the mast in the top corner.



    Next is the light.



    And top corner.



    It really can't be appreciated in a 72 dpi jpeg, but this is a very sharp lens indeed. The pic above was a full aperture; stopping down gave a tiny, barely discernible, improvement at f5.6. F8 and F11 were identical.

    Of great interest to me is that even at shutter speeds of 1/4 to 1/25 sec, there was no blurring - a major problem with the Mamiya 300 Apo at anything less than 1/100 sec.
    Bill CB

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Thanks, Bill.

    I almost didn't want to see your findings.... My wallet is bleeding too much lately!

    I'll get to try the 240LS next month with CI in Carmel, but now I'm scared to touch it....

    ken

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Sigh....

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post
    Sigh....
    Ditto. I'm going to have to avert my gaze and/or unsubscribe to this thread or else find the ski mask & sawn off shotgun for some rapid lens budget replenishment.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Well, let me make all you fellow gear sluts feel better. The lens is HEAVY.

    And...oh dear...I can't think of anything else negative to say.

    Bill
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Bill

    Congratulations on the purchase of such a fine lens.

    and of course on letting the rest of us down so gently by reassuring us that it really would be too heavy for us to lug around and really enjoy.

    Mal
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    Well, let me make all you fellow gear sluts feel better. The lens is HEAVY.

    And...oh dear...I can't think of anything else negative to say.

    Bill
    maybe because they put some glass in it
    -bob
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    It seems to me that whenever Phase (and SK) start with an entirely new lens design, theses lenses get placed into a different revered status. No doubt the D series and LS lenses are the best lenses in the line-up, but I'm talking "most-revered" or exalted status that few DF users ever quibble about, and are uniformly praised. No spit-shining and "new lens coatings" but a truly new engineered lens: 150mm D, 110mm LS, and now 240LS? (I've seen but haven't heard anything about the new massive 120 TS).

    Very nice, Bill. How about posting some images, with poor form and shaking a bit? I think that would make all of us that are budget challenged at the moment feel a bit better...

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    OK, Ken, I have LOTS of poor images I could show but, regrettably, none YET with the 240 LS. But don't worry, I'm sure to create some trash soon...

    Bill

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    (I've seen but haven't heard anything about the new massive 120 TS).
    Ken, do a search for the 120 TS on LuLa. I'm not sure "revered" is the word that people are using. Disappointing and frustrating seem to to be closer. I've not used the lens in any meaningful way, so I can't comment, but based on the reviews I wouldn't bother.

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Thanks, Bill (Green)---I haven't heard anything that would put the 120 TS into exalted status.

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    When Phase One announced the 240mm f/4.5 Leaf Shutter lens, I tested this leaf shutter telephoto lens on a bronze statue of James Garner, taken with Leaf Aptus II-7 in Mamiya mount.

    What lens was used for this picture?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/steveco...n/photostream/

    Answer: Mamiya 250mm f/4.5 APO Lens for RZ67 Camera.
    Last edited by steve_cor; 13th January 2013 at 23:12. Reason: Adding link for picture.

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    No more test shots - here's the sort of thing I'm using the lens for. Taken today in very poor light, IQ180, ISO 1600 Sensor+, 50% crop.

    Whisker sharp, you might say...

    Bill CB

    www.billcaulfeild-browne.ca
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    No more test shots - here's the sort of thing I'm using the lens for. Taken today in very poor light, IQ180, ISO 1600 Sensor+, 50% crop.

    Whisker sharp, you might say...
    Yikes! I was out for an hour in SWO shooting some farmland and the wind was just howling.....thought I was going to die! It looked like a great sunny day from inside the house! Kudos to you for finding this guy in this weather
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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    This ermine lives very close by my home - I didn't need to spend much time in the cold!
    Bill

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Dat glass.

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    Re: The elusive Phase One 240 LS

    Just to update my fellow gear sluts. I used the 240 LS extensively in the last month (as can be seen in Fun with MF thread) and it really is Superb. Probably was my most used lens though the novelty may have had something to do with that. Heavy, yes, but razor sharp at all apertures.

    I tend to "see long" rather than wide, so the 150 always gets a lot of use. The 240 looks like it may replace it as my go-to long lens.

    Highly recommended!

    Bill

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