The elusive Phase One 240 LS

[GrahamWelland]

So did nobody else notice on the phase one industrial site that they list the 240 LS ...
Phase One 240 LS

Question is, when is this going to be available for the DF? (assuming of course that there is any difference) It seems strange that it's only listed on the industrial site.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

I think it was announced awhile back. Love to try it

 

[GrahamWelland]

I'd heard about it for quite a while but no sign of it on the normal site, just on the industrial site!

 

[lance_schad]

It's been announced along with the 75-150 LS f/4.0-f/5.6, priced and is available for Pre-Order.
I guess they just have not gotten around to updating the New Website.

FYI:
70295 Schneider Kruezanach LS 75-150mm f/4.0-5.6 AF - $5,490
70294 Schneider Kreuznach LS 240mm f/4.5AF - $5,790

We already have quite a few on order. From the last I heard it they should ship within the next few months.

Lance (email me)

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

That lens looks very sexy

 

[carbonatoms]

It's been announced along with the 75-150 LS f/4.0-f/5.6, priced and is available for Pre-Order.
I guess they just have not gotten around to updating the New Website.

FYI:
70295 Schneider Kruezanach LS 75-150mm f/4.0-5.6 AF - $5,490
70294 Schneider Kreuznach LS 240mm f/4.5AF - $5,790

We already have quite a few on order. From the last I heard it they should ship within the next few months.

Lance (email me)

Phase One don't exactly like to give us a very exact timeframe do they Lance.

Please tell them from me that I expect summer to be in the next few months.

I thought they might like to know.

Will

 

[GrahamWelland]

I always thought that 'few' meant three or so. Maybe in Denmark it means 18-24 months. Kind of like the meaning of mañana doesn't mean tomorrow in most latin countries.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

FWIW my dealer in Toronto is "suggesting" May delivery......I also heard from a Phase person that May looked "likely"....
Bill

 

[vieri]

I always thought that 'few' meant three or so. Maybe in Denmark it means 18-24 months. Kind of like the meaning of mañana doesn't mean tomorrow in most latin countries.

...now Graham, you are so wrong: "mañana" actually means tomorrow - say they tell you "mañana" today, and tomorrow you go and ask them again, they'll rightfully tell you "mañana", as they said already, thus keeping their word impeccably; then you go the next day, and they tell you "mañana", and so on... :ROTFL: Same with Phase: they tell you "a few months", and a few months later they will tell you "a few months", and so on... this is globalization at its best: Denmark join hands with the Latin world! :ROTFL:

 

[Bob]

Reminds me of a sign I remember stoppting in a bar in Groveland California.

"Free Beer Tomorrow" :ROTFL:

 

[gazwas]

Just looked at the images of this lens on the Phase industrial site....... That's one ULGY looking lens. Beer goggles on when appreciating the aesthetics of that monster!

I sure hope it performs better than it looks.

 

[kdphotography]

and an 86mm filter thread size.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

Just looked at the images of this lens on the Phase industrial site....... That's one ULGY looking lens. Beer goggles on when appreciating the aesthetics of that monster!

I sure hope it performs better than it looks.

I'm assuming that much of what we see is a sliding lens shade, like the 300 mm Mamiya - but I'm far from sure!

 

[carbonatoms]

May 2013?

 

[Paul2660]

Where is the IS/VR button?

Just kidding, but sure would be nice.
Paul

 

[ondebanks]

F4.5 is so slow for a 645 format lens though. Mamiya had 250/4.5 leaf shutter lenses for their big 6x7/6x8 cameras; surely they could beat that for the smaller format 645DF. In fact it's a pity that all the new LS lenses are so conservative in aperture. Maybe Schneider are the problem here.

Ray

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

Anybody have an idea about delivery date? I was initially told May but now I'm getting August - which may mean anything!
Bill

 

[MaxKißler]

F4.5 is so slow for a 645 format lens though. Mamiya had 250/4.5 leaf shutter lenses for their big 6x7/6x8 cameras; surely they could beat that for the smaller format 645DF. In fact it's a pity that all the new LS lenses are so conservative in aperture. Maybe Schneider are the problem here.

Ray

I wouldn't blame this on schneider nor on any lens manufacturer. It's just a fact that you need huge glass elements and a huge lens barrel in general to get a wide opening. I suppose it just wouldn't be economical and prices would be even more exquisite. Bear in mind that many users of this system shoot with flash and the idea of a leaf shutter lens is simply to use fill flash. So does the aperture opening matter? And would it be wiser to have a f/4,5 that is usable or a f/2,8 that is extremely soft? I mean the difference between F/2,8 and f/4,5 is merely 1,3 stops.

Regarding image circles: The longer the FL the larger the image circle. You could actually use one of Canons longer fast lenses on a larger format if it wasn't for flange distances and the fact that the barrel decreases the image circle so only the center part of it hits the sensor.
The same happens with 645 long FL lenses. The image circle is decreased to a certain degree since reflections off of the ir cut filter and in the mirror box would lead to ghosting or whatever kind of effect on image quality.

 

[ondebanks]

I wouldn't blame this on schneider nor on any lens manufacturer. It's just a fact that you need huge glass elements and a huge lens barrel in general to get a wide opening. I suppose it just wouldn't be economical and prices would be even more exquisite. Bear in mind that many users of this system shoot with flash and the idea of a leaf shutter lens is simply to use fill flash. So does the aperture opening matter? And would it be wiser to have a f/4,5 that is usable or a f/2,8 that is extremely soft? I mean the difference between F/2,8 and f/4,5 is merely 1,3 stops.

Max, are you forgetting that Mamiya already made 200/2.8 and 300/2.8 APO lenses for the very same 645 format?

Do they have huge barrels? No...

Are they extremely soft at f/2.8? No...(trust me, I have the 200/2.8 and it's in another league of image quality to most MF lenses).

Does a mere 1.3 stops matter? Yes, to me...even 1.0 or 0.7 stops matters.

Can a leaf shutter be put in a fast medium format lens? Yes...look at Rollei (80/2, 110/2, 180/2.8, 300/4).

Yeah, 3 of those 4 Rollei speed demons were Schneider lenses, so maybe it's not a Schneider thing...the conservatism could well originate with Phase One who commissioned the LS lenses and who, let's face it, do not have any pedigree in lenses.

Sure, a faster lens would be more expensive. Looking at the prices people are already paying for P1 systems and LS lenses, I think it would still sell.

Now, you mentioned fill flash. This is a fairly long telephoto, so in most situations it will be used with the subject at some considerable distance away. Flash reach therefore becomes an issue. How do you extend flash reach? By opening up the aperture. You then need a faster shutter to avoid ambient overexposure, so you're covered with the 1/1600 speed of the LS. That, combined with the extra "medium formatness" of really large aperture bokeh, makes a compelling case in my view.

Ray

 

[MaxKißler]

Ray,

I'm aware of Mamiyas fast APO lenses, but you have to admit that they are rather large in comparision. The 210mm f/4 ULD is considerably smaller than the 200mm f/2,8 for example. All I'm saying is, because you mentioned the Sekor (Z or K/L they're both the same lens) 250mm f/4,5 for RZ/RB, that you just cannot say: let's squeeze the image circle to a smaller format to get more light to the sensor plane. You just wouldn't maintain the same FOV. As far as I know, it's not possible to make the lens faster without making it larger.

But you're right, this a decision the Phase One group has to make. Focussing on more "ergonomics" like compactness and portability or faster but bulkier and more expensive designs. Then again, we're talking about a lens that is very likely to perform outstanding, it's not like they'd be producing total crap... It's only up to you as a customer to decide whether you like the bone they throw at you are not. (I'd personally go with liking it since you're not having a real choice anyway...)

Regarding fill flash: I don't see the issue there. It's rather the opposite, a longer FL gives you a narrower FOV therefore you have an even greater choice of positioning your flash unit.


Max