Phase One 150mm lens options

[gerald.d]

Hi all -

I'm looking into the various options out there for 150mm focal length to be used on a Phase One AF and IQ180.

Current lens options are AFD and LS, but also there seem to be quite a few older options on the second hand market.

I'm purely considering optical quality bang for the buck (AF and LS are of no importance to me), and would also like to know if there are other choices available through using mount adapters that I should be considering.

Much looking forward to your advice and guidance

Many thanks,

Gerald.

 

[gazwas]

Hi Gerald

The 150D is amazing! Some would say the best on any format and a future classic.

Sharp corner to corner and brilliant performance shot wide open. It has internal focusing meaning it doesn't change in lenght like most of the Phase/Mamiya/Schneider lenses which also helps make it very quick to focus. Focuses closer than the new Schneider LS and has negligible distortion. So much so there is no lens profile for it in C1.

If you intend to shoot most stuff stopped down, f8 or f11 then most gernarations of the Mamiya 150 are pretty good and the older gen Mamiya AF 150mm can be had for a steal second hand and worth a punt to see how it performs before buying the latest version which is a very expensive lens IMO. Going older than the 150 AF, IQ is still great stopped down but personally I couldn't be bothered with all that manual stopping down to make an exposure and opening up to focus for every shot. That's an OK workflow on a tech camera but on a DSLR........ no thank you.

 

[gerald.d]

Thanks Gareth.

The stopping down/opening up doesn't really bother me that much.

Obviously I've heard great things about the 150D, but the price differential between the different options at this focal length are enormous.

The 150D is around $3500 I believe. I picked up an old manual focus f/3.5 in London for about 5% of that price (and looking on eBay, it would appear I actually paid over the odds for it!).

Is the optical quality (remember - that is ALL I am interested in) really going to be very close between these two shooting at around f/8>f/11?

Another option would appear to be the Carl Zeiss CFi. It retails for $4,250, yet used mint ones are available for around $1,700, which is the kind of bargain that tends to get my attention.

I'd be very interested to hear feedback from anyone with experience of shooting the Zeiss lenses on an AF or DF with an IQ180.

Coming from Canon L glass, I'm not used to seeing this kind of depreciation. With the Canon L's, you'd typically get your money back if you were to sell the lens after 3-5 years simply because of inflation, and they hold their value so well. I'm averse to the idea of shelling out $3,500 for the 150D if I can expect it to drop in value like a stone, and particularly averse to buying one if for my primary use (fixed focus, fixed aperture, shooting gigapixel panoramas), there is little difference between it and a lens that costs a hundred bucks.

Obviously having just shelled out a lot of money for an IQ180, I'm keen to get the most out of it, but, having just shelled out a lot of money for an IQ180, I'm keen to spend my glass money wisely (I've also got my eye on the 120 TS - if there is one lens that I would consider busting the bank on, it would be that one).

Regards,

Gerald.

 

[Paul66]

I have an older 150 3.5 and paid $99.00 for it and love it!

 

[lance_schad]

The one thing to consider that has come up when I have been demonstrating as a concern for some has been the minimum focus distance.

150/f2.8 D -100 cm / 3.3 ft.

150/f3.5 LS -150cm / 4.92 ft.

They are both great lenses. I prefer the 150 f/2.8 D.


Lance (email me)

 

[FredBGG]

IF you are interested in tilt and shift and don't want to limited to just one focal length
you might want to consider getting a Fuji GX 680 to attach your IQ180 to.

They are inexpensive used and the lenses are very very good. Far better than older Mamiya lenses. Keep in mind that Fuji designs and makes the hasselblad H lenses.

You can get a body for about $ 200 for the version I and $ 700 for the version III.

The lenses go from about $150 to $ 600.

Best of all they are all tilt and shift... from 50mm to 500mm including the one of a kind 100 to 200mm zoom tilt and shift.

Also it's much better to manual focus a tilt shift lens with a wait level finder with a high magnification loup than with a low magnification Phase One or Hasselblad pentaprism. Also keep in mind that the Phase One 120 TS is a 5.6, while the Fuji is a 3.2, almost two stops brighter.
Here is the Fuji gx680 with the 300mm and the moving loup finder.

Here is a look at the tilt shift movements on the camera.

Also this camera is fantastic for shooting film if you wanted to dabble in that for fun and games.

To give you an idea of the performance of these lenses here are a couple of shots with crops.

 

[FredBGG]

I did a little comparison between my Fuji GX680 250mm f5.6 and the Canon 200mm F2.8L Mark II @5.6.

I used the Canon 5d Mark II for the captures. To capture the Fuji lens images I held the Canon 5D II behind the Fuji 680 body. While the Canon has an AA filter on the sensor it's still a pretty good indication of what you would get with the IQ180 as the pixel size is close.

I expected the Fuji lens to be somewhat inferior as it is about 20 years old and has an image circle of about 200mm while the Canon has an image circle of 50mm

well it was quite interesting...

Here is a 100% crop (scaled down by Flickr) from the Fuji/Canon capture:

And here is the same from the Canon/canon capture

Quite amazing how well the Fuji compares, especially considering that the Fuji is shooting at full aperture while the Canon is shooting stopped down two stops ... at 5.6 that is it's best aperture.

Here are the full frames:

Fuji/Canon capture:

Canon/canon capture

See how the Bokeh on the Fuji is nicer and you get it already at 5.6. This is important to me as I like to shoot at slowish shutter speeds so that I can get some movement such as a dress or hair in the wind.

Then if you consider ontop of that the fact that if I was using the full frame I would be closer to the bush and would have even better bokeh on the background.

Throw in the higher dynamic range of film especially in the highlights and it's a formula that I like.

And one other thing. When running the images of the Fuji/canon and the Canon/canon through the JPEG compressor the Fuji lens files always came out larger indicating that there is more information in the Fuji lens images.


One thing that this test clearly indicates one interesting thing. If you consider that the Fuji lens when using the full 6x8 frame will be projecting about 6x more information..... well it indicated that for now only film gives you the opportunity to capture these large format images projected by these unique lenses.

Here is a diagram to show how little of the full frame the Canon was capturing:

Here you can see how sharp the Canon 200mm 2.8 L II (one of Canons sharpest primes)

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/...CameraComp=0&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0

 

[gerald.d]

Thanks Fred.

Funnily enough, I was chatting with ghoonk just earlier today about how enticing the 680 is. I'll almost certainly be picking one up at some point, but probably not until next year. And you are right. It possibly would make more sense than getting the 120TS on the Phase.

Kind regards,

Gerald.

p.s. I also have a Walker 5x7 (that's inches of course) large format camera, so very much appreciate the point you make with regards how small DSLR sensors are

 

[FredBGG]

Look at the price difference too...

Phase One Schneider $4,643.00

Fuji:

Fuji GX680 $ 200
125mm 3.2 $ 399
Kapture group back adapter $ 840
Focusing loup Finder $ 150.

And I forgot to mention that the close focus with the Fuji lenses makes most of them macros.

 

[FredBGG]

Thanks Fred.

Funnily enough, I was chatting with ghoonk just earlier today about how enticing the 680 is. I'll almost certainly be picking one up at some point, but probably not until next year. And you are right. It possibly would make more sense than getting the 120TS on the Phase.

Kind regards,

Gerald.

The one limitation is that the Fuji gx680's widest lens is a 50mm. That's plenty wide on a 6x8cm negative, but not very wide for a sub 645 sensor.
On the other hand tilt shift images with these lenses actually work really well with the Phase One sensors due to the larger distance between lens and sensor because of the size of the Fuji 680.

 

[yatlee]

Hi Fred,

What adaptor and cable does it require to used the 680 a IQ Mamiya mount back?

 

[Steve Hendrix]

Hi Fred,

What adaptor and cable does it require to used the 680 a IQ Mamiya mount back?

Yat, unfortunately - far as I know, and if someone knows otherwise, please share - for a pairing of either a Leaf or Phase One digital back, the KaptureGroup One Shot Release Solution for GX680 must be utilized. On the plus side, sales for KG Fuji Kits aren't booming, so the pricing is 40% reduced.

About everything you'd want to know about using a Fuji GX680 with a Phase One digital back is collected here:

Procedure to Setup & Troubleshoot Fuji 680III :: Capture Integration – Medium Format Digital Back Sales & Rental and Other Professional Photographic Equipment


Steve Hendrix

 

[yatlee]

Thanks Steve.

 

[lenslover]

I have the Mamiya 150mm f2.8 A which is MF, same wonderful glass as the new lens and verrrry sharp. I paid $340 for it in ln- condition. I had previously bought an old silver Hasselblad 150 f4 Sonnar to use with my Canon and purchased an adapter to Mamiya645. It nearly as sharp as the Mamiya and renders the image differently, cooler and less contrast.

Sometimes I wonder if paying $3500 for a lens might . . . Oh well, I won't go there. At $350, what do you have to lose?

Bill