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Capture Integration Test

Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Someone got smoked. Should have never looked at these. The P21 killed it.

I would bet 100 bucks the color is exactly correct in the tree on the left on the Phase. Canon can't hold a red to save it's life
 
EH21

EH21

Member
Tom,
The values are in the EXIF....all images taken at f/16 and an 85mm lens was used on the Canon and a 120mm for the p21 and p45 shots (didn't check the p30). I'd say this is a definitive win for MF. Besides sharpness and lack of distortion, the differences in color are impressive. Hard to say about the DR....almost seems like there was a difference in brightness (in the middle tone and darker areas) that made it hard to assess the differences here.
 
W

workingcamera

Guest
No surprises here… I’ve played with the P45 on the Mamyia 645ZD… not a bad piece of kit. I was pleasantly surprised on the Mamyia and the glass also seemed quite respectable.:shocked:

The thing I like about the Phase gear is their intuitive uncluttered user interface … I was handed the kit given no more than 20 seconds introductory tuition and I was off shooting with no problems. I think this is where Phase probably have the edge on leaf though admittedly my experience with the Leaf Backs is very limited.

The Phase files are dangerous … way too gorgeous … most addictive. This is a very irresponsible thread once you play with these files you can never look back

If I could justify the outlay (40-50 000 Aust Dollars!) I’d pick one up at the drop of a hat.
 
F

fotografz

Well-known member
It not just Phase One. Any MF back will do this. Leaf, Sinar, Hasselblad, Phase One.

In Real Estate it's Location. Location. Location.

In Photography it's Real Estate, Real Estate. Real Estate.

Punch in 100% (Actual Pixels) on each image, and go to the "Visit the Fountain Side Cafe" sign and look at the difference.

BTW, Capture Integration has P45 refurbs with warranty for $17,900. (about 20,000 Aussy dollars : -)
 
W

workingcamera

Guest
But like people have been saying the 1Ds MkIII looks pretty good until you compare against something else. The devil is very much in the detail as you can see with P21 comparison.
 
PeterA

PeterA

Well-known member
workingcamera said:
No surprises here… I’ve played with the P45 on the Mamyia 645ZD… not a bad piece of kit. I was pleasantly surprised on the Mamyia and the glass also seemed quite respectable.:shocked:

The thing I like about the Phase gear is their intuitive uncluttered user interface … I was handed the kit given no more than 20 seconds introductory tuition and I was off shooting with no problems. I think this is where Phase probably have the edge on leaf though admittedly my experience with the Leaf Backs is very limited.

The Phase files are dangerous … way too gorgeous … most addictive. This is a very irresponsible thread once you play with these files you can never look back

If I could justify the outlay (40-50 000 Aust Dollars!) I’d pick one up at the drop of a hat.
Click to expand...
you can buy a lot of beer for $40K mate.
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
This is a very irresponsible thread once you play with these files you can never look back



Tell me about it, i have no kids left to sell for one:ROTFL::ROTFL::ROTFL:
 
S

Samuel Axelsson

Guest
I've always been convinced of what a DB can do. I also think that to know what they are capable of you have to test it with your own hands, not reading what people post in the forums around. There's a lot of people out there killing the P21 against the MIII just by the numbers, while every test will show the same result: The digital backs are another story.
 
Jack

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Dang. If I sold everything else, I could gt the P45+ hassy H and four or five lenses... Problem is I don't want to sell everything else...
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
I maybe happy with just a 21 or 22mpx back. That damn Mamiya at 10k starting to look good or get a H2 and a P21 might be a good price too.
 
D

DougDolde

Guest
I didn't notice the aperatures being f16 but that is definately a problem with this test. Diffraction has set in long before this small aperature. At least it was a level playing field although larger pixels will hold up diffraction-wise to a smaller aperature better than smaller pixels (1DsIII). The P21 does have 9µm pixels, where the 1DsIII is 6.4 µm.

Indeed all the test shots are probably suffering from the smaller aperature, though the Canon even suffers more.

Note, read: http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/Diffraction/example-1DsM3.html

The deal of the day has to be Phase One's offer of a P45+, Mamiya AFDII, 80mm lens AND the new 28mm digital lens ($5294 for this lens at B&H) for a few dollars under $30K. But then a new Mamiya body is coming out very soon so this may be just a way to clear out inventory of AFDIIs.
 
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EH21

EH21

Member
I noticed the same kind of differences between my p20/Rollei 6008 (and the digital bundle can be had for less than $9k with everything - one on ebay now) and the 1DsII even though the 1DsII had a slight edge in pixels. Not saying everyone should rush out and buy and old p20 but at base ISO the MFDB sensors are strong. Big pixel well CCD and lack of AA filter are big advantages - but it all falls down somewhere between ISO 400 and 800. Then the canon will come into its own and will take the lead at ISO 800 and above. What am I saying? I'm saying we need both!
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Honestly folks I think we should all wait for PMA and see what comes this time. I think that is the answer for me at least. i actually will be at PMA along with Jack before we head up to Moab to do the workshop. But Jack and i are going to make a few visits at the show and see what is up in the MF arena. We also have meetings with Leica also.
 
R

rainer-v

Guest
seeing the same crops than samuel showed closer, let me think that the whole test seems to be - as so often - some marketing thing and little bit more.
the p21 ( and the other p files ) are sharpened and contrast treated, meanwhile the canon is not. sharpen the canon file, bring the crop to a similar size than the p files ( even upsampling does this job ), make some shadows/highlight contrast increasements in PS and the contrast and detail is not far from the p21 anymore,- where this things obviously have been done already.
its not a fair comparision and its not done with the goal to be fair..... or i am wrong herein?

found a nice link also in the net, and this one explains very well why i am not so god friend with the kodak sensors in general.

http://diglloyd.com/diglloyd/free/HasselbladH3D/index.html

since generations they show exactly the kind of flaws which are described and shown here in this test. it doesnt matter if a leica, kodak, p1 or hasselblad is around ,- this behavor is "kodak - sensor design " specific and i personnally dont like it. i prefere dalsa sensors therefor, although the 33mp sensor has lost some of the advantages ´the 22mp sensor yet has had ( but gained others as well so finally its an improvement not just in terms of resolution ).

about the canon 1dsmk3:
i think they made a great job,- although i will not buy one but wait for the 5dmk2 and doing what i already do:
shooting with my sinar backs.
 
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lance_schad

lance_schad

Workshop Member
I just wanted to jump in and give some information from us (Capture Integration) on how we did the test. Due to time constraints because of Holidays and End of Year(and of course lack of product,we only had it in our hands for a short time) we were not able to perform as comprehensive of a test as we wanted to. Please stay tuned for additional tests on the 1DSMK3 and others that will be available on our website.
Also there is a lot of good information that is being passed back and forth on this forum(thank you members).
It is quite difficult to do one type of test for everyone since everyone I am sure you will all agree, but we will take the comments under advisement for future ones.
PM or post if you have any special requests.
The tests were done with the following equipment:
P21 RAW Scene 1 -1/100 f16 ISO 100 120mm lens Mamiya 645 AFDII

P30+ RAW Scene 1 1/100 f16 ISO 100 120mm lens Mamiya 645 AFD II

P45 RAW Scene 1 1/100 f16 ISO 100 120mm lens Mamiya 645 AFD II

Canon 1DsMarkIII 1/100 f16, ISO 100 85mm

The images are available for download as tiff files linked from our current newsletter that can be accessed with the link below:
http://tinyurl.com/2kpsr7

The Canon has some nice features and will fit certain market segments and have a place in some photographers arsenal besides a medium format system. As far as image quality goes we will leave it up to you to decide decide.

And yes Doug the P45+ deal with Mamiya 645 AFDII,80mm and 28mm is a killer deal until the end of the year(all of that gear is thrown in-$9k value)! Also if you have Hassy V-Series lenses I just got an adapter in for the Mamiya645AFDII and it seems to work (just tried it briefly, but I am going to put it through its paces, and will post , but so far, so good). So go ahead and use all of your old V-series glass! If you do not want the Mamiya in the promotion contact me for additional info. One more things we have two refurbished P21's that can be had for a few dollars more than the Canon.

Have a great Holiday!

Lance Schad
Capture Integration - Miami/Atlanta
305-534-5701 office
305-394-3196 cell
www.captureintegration.com
[email protected]
 
Guy Mancuso

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Lance welcome to the forum , great to have you here with more packed information for all our members here. This is great stuff.

Please any test that you want to post or info please do so this is a open house.

Thanks Guy
 
T

thsinar

Guest
just my little comment on those tests presented here (and elsewhere): I found them to be flawed and unfair. Though I understand the differences and edge of a MFDB, I can tell that one can get much more out of those Canon files by adjusting contrast and adding some sharpening.

I am completely in accordance with Rainer and his comments below.

Best regards,
Thierry
 
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