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Thread: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

  1. #101
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    It has little to do with CCD vs CMOS. You get faster refresh rates with 35mm
    DSLR cameras because they use line skipping techniques in order to get the data out and processed quickly. Also the processors are much faster.
    Just look at how the D800 can process 1080 video. Scale it in real time for the on camera screen and out put uncompressed HDMI. That is massive data throughput . MF digital backs don't come close to these speeds.
    You're mixing a few different things here...
    Digital backs use full-frame CCD technology, as opposed to Interline CCD technology, which is the one used in P&S and video cameras

    The Dalsa 33MP sensor, for example, can provide a maximum of 4fps (RAW 16-bit stills) if all 4 outputs are used. Trouble is that the noise/signal ratio will go up and also there are no MF bodies that can take 4fps*

    In Live View, Leaf backs do 5-6fps at 100% zoom as we utilise sub-sampling (something like binning)

    CMOS, in a way, is closer to Interline CCDs. There's a Kodak 29MP Interline sensor that is used for industrial and aerial applications, however is is only 24x36mm....

    So right now, if you want/ need to go either larger than 24x36 or more than 36MP, your answer is a digital back, proof.

    BR
    Yair

    * The AFi/Hy6 camera can do 4fps in mirror-up mode. I can show you a video that demonstrates it
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    You're mixing a few different things here...
    Digital backs use full-frame CCD technology, as opposed to Interline CCD technology, which is the one used in P&S and video cameras

    The Dalsa 33MP sensor, for example, can provide a maximum of 4fps (RAW 16-bit stills) if all 4 outputs are used. Trouble is that the noise/signal ratio will go up and also there are no MF bodies that can take 4fps*

    In Live View, Leaf backs do 5-6fps at 100% zoom as we utilise sub-sampling (something like binning)

    CMOS, in a way, is closer to Interline CCDs. There's a Kodak 29MP Interline sensor that is used for industrial and aerial applications, however is is only 24x36mm....

    So right now, if you want/ need to go either larger than 24x36 or more than 36MP, your answer is a digital back, proof.

    BR
    Yair

    * The AFi/Hy6 camera can do 4fps in mirror-up mode. I can show you a video that demonstrates it

    The line skiping I was referring to is regarding the live view preview.
    This reduces the processing required to get the info onto the LCD on the back of the camera while leaving plenty of processing power to run live view autofocusing and face recognition for up to 4 faces.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Hi, am new here and reading this thread with great interest. Just finished testing in my studio a Hasselblad 200MS and PhaseOneIQ180 as well as BetterLight 6k scan back.
    My biggest gripe with all of them was no LiveView like I get out of my dslr's.

    My question is this: why does it need to be the exact same sensor that takes the photos that also produces the LiveView? Can it not be a secondary sensor or small video camera in there reading off the mirror?
    I mean, for $40+K this is a big deal and possible deal breaker for me. I really need the LiveView that I get out of dslr's and the IQ and file size that MFD produces.
    BetterLight has none, Hasselblad's is archaic and slow, and PhaseOne's is 3fps and noisy.
    Why not a dedicated secondary sensor just for this?

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Hi, am new here and reading this thread with great interest. Just finished testing in my studio a Hasselblad 200MS and PhaseOneIQ180 as well as BetterLight 6k scan back.
    My biggest gripe with all of them was no LiveView like I get out of my dslr's.

    My question is this: why does it need to be the exact same sensor that takes the photos that also produces the LiveView? Can it not be a secondary sensor or small video camera in there reading off the mirror?
    I mean, for $40+K this is a big deal and possible deal breaker for me. I really need the LiveView that I get out of dslr's and the IQ and file size that MFD produces.
    BetterLight has none, Hasselblad's is archaic and slow, and PhaseOne's is 3fps and noisy.
    Why not a dedicated secondary sensor just for this?
    Seems, in order to get the same FoV, it would need to be of equal size to the CCD. By the same, where would you put it? It needs to be positioned *exactly* where the CCD is as to have the focus obtained during LiveView remain relevant. I think a second sensor is an incredibly unlikely approach.

    That said, it stands to reason that future MF backs could be a composite of CMOS and CCD technology.
    --
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Thank you, Gabe.
    I guess I do not need exact same FoV for the LV feed, just similar. Also, if the viewfinder shows near 100% FoV as claimed, why not put the LV sensor where my eyeball goes? Once a setup is achieved in studio, we rarely look thru the camera conventionally anymore. We always project the LV feed onto large screens anyway.
    In any case, the IQ180 with its noisy 3fps LV could work and I can prolly live with it; but my stylists are going to complain mightily.
    Thanks again, and this Leaf for $10k less than IQ180 looks amazing! I will put it on my shortlist of mfd I am considering for studio work.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by coulombic View Post
    Seems, in order to get the same FoV, it would need to be of equal size to the CCD. By the same, where would you put it? It needs to be positioned *exactly* where the CCD is as to have the focus obtained during LiveView remain relevant. I think a second sensor is an incredibly unlikely approach.
    Several of the Sony DSLR models have used a secondary sensor in the pentamirror assembly to provide an alternative live view mode. It hasn't been ideal for focusing, but it does establish proof of principle.

    You don't necessarily need to have the same FOV to make it worth having as an auxiliary device for fine focusing.

    Where to put it? Anywhere in the camera body where you can establish an optical path that makes it an accurate focus analog.

    That said, I also don't think it likely. I imagine that the design and manufacturing complexity required to achieve the desired precision in focusing with the auxiliary device would add substantially to the price of the body, and I doubt Hasselblad or Phase One would reckon that the payoff in increased sales would be sufficient to return the investment.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Sooo, do I understand you correctly that the ground glass in the viewfinder is not an accurate focus analog?
    If it isn't, I am surprised, must be a MF thing? If it is, I guess I can rig a 5D2 to the viewfinder and use it as a LV sensor ( not that I would, just that I could).
    I guess I am just missing something here, but it just doesn't appear to be that technically hard to me.
    Price point? We are talking about $$$50Large here, that's serious $$. If it cost an additional $1500-3000 to have "real LV" I would not blink, and neither would many studios I know. Just offer it as an accessory
    Anyway, interesting.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    I have suggested this before.

    Replacing the focusing screen with a secondary sensor... even low res.

    A lot could be obtained this way.

    You could get AF anywhere in the frame with contrast detection. You could get real time live view.

    There are ultra low light low res sensors that are designed to be quite large so as to gather more light. The sensors could be cheap as that would not have to be perfect and a few dead pixels would be no big deal.

    However the real solution if to simply scale up Fuji's new sensor technology that is already in the X-pro 1. At that point you would no longer need a mirror box and lens designs would not have to accommodate for a mirror box.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    Sooo, do I understand you correctly that the ground glass in the viewfinder is not an accurate focus analog?
    It is often not accurate enough for the demands that users of high-MP FF and MF DSLRs make of their files.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    If it isn't, I am surprised, must be a MF thing?
    It is true of cameras with smaller sensors as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    I guess I am just missing something here, but it just doesn't appear to be that technically hard to me.
    It is very costly to manufacture to the required tolerances. $5000 for a camera body is not enough to assure it.

    Alpa, which for $$$$ sells what are essentially exquisitely-machined metal frames, provides shims and adjustable mounts to allow compensation for manufacturing tolerances in the various components that stack together with the frame to make the imaging path. And that's even without having to allow for an in-line viewing system, which would require further provision for adjustment to match it to the imaging path.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    I guess there are tolerances and then there are TOLERANCES...
    Fortunately, mine are met with mostly off-the-shelf high end stuff.
    Thanks for the info!

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by Egor View Post
    I guess there are tolerances and then there are TOLERANCES...
    Not to mention... tolerances!



    Hey: welcome, dive in, splash around, and have some fun! There's plenty of good stuff to be found here.


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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Enough with Fuji pep talk, seriously. This is topic about new offer from Leaf. Can we stop with all the abstracts and kinda concentrate on CREDO stuff?

    I am personally interested in hearing experiences, seeing results, and if at all possible - hear from Steve and others about possible upgrade trade-ins (i guess i won't be doing it with Optech folks, seeing that its closing, despite being me MFD vendor). I am starting to ponder upgrading 22mp 54s, either to IQ or to CREDO sometime in next few months, so all the off topic does is irritating, and not helping, sorry.
    Last edited by SergeiR; 1st May 2012 at 05:47.
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    This is a thread introducing the new Credo folks. I would like to hear about IT myself.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Had 45 minutes to kill between breakfast and brunch on Sunday, so I took the Credo 80 prototype with a DF and a 150mm/2.8 D to the RAF museum in Hendon to see Bonhams' classic cars auction













    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    This is a thread introducing the new Credo folks. I would like to hear about IT myself.

    I am not surprised about the drift in the thread. It's hard to be excited about the Credo backs when you look at what Nikon has achieved with the D800 and the D800e. The Credo backs do not look like anything more than IQ backs that have been stripped of certain features and cost a few thousand dollars less. Is there any groundbreaking technology that I have missed?

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Howard I have the D800 it's not MF but it's very good and best in class for 35mm. Key word there 35mm. Bottom line you want MF quality you need a MF back. Nothing has really changed except the Nikon got closer to it.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    The real underlining issue here is there is not a damn thing out there in 35mm that can even come close to what a tech cam can do. You want great wide angle ,rise/ fall shift and movements you need a back the Credo is a great option for existing Leaf users to upgrade too or folks to buy new and when is cheaper costs a problem. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Yair,

    I got the upgrade prices for the Credo 80 from my dealer. The cost to upgrade from the Aptus II 12 is almost the same as the cost to upgrade from the Aptus II 10. What is the logic behind this? If feel like I'm being penalized for buying your flagship product.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    I am personally interested in hearing experiences, seeing results, and if at all possible - hear from Steve and others about possible upgrade trade-ins
    Doug Peterson has posted upgrade pricing from Aptus II backs on LuLa - basically, you get as many % off as the number of MP you're trading in:

    Digital Transitions APTUS II - CREDO upgrade pricing

    Other backs are case-by-case.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Great shots Yair!

    If anyone is in the NY area and may want to get a look at the Credo please let me know. We have limited access to one over the next few days.
    Have been playing with it and the quality is beautiful.

    Lance (email me)
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by jagsiva View Post
    Yair,

    I got the upgrade prices for the Credo 80 from my dealer. The cost to upgrade from the Aptus II 12 is almost the same as the cost to upgrade from the Aptus II 10. What is the logic behind this? If feel like I'm being penalized for buying your flagship product.
    Hi Jag, as mentioned above this sort of upgrades are dealt with on a case-by-case base through the dealer. We'll follow up and see that what you get it worth everybody's while

    BR

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Hi Jag, as mentioned above this sort of upgrades are dealt with on a case-by-case base through the dealer. We'll follow up and see that what you get it worth everybody's while

    BR

    Yair
    Yair, I have been working through my dealer. As I said, the pricing to go to Credo 80 from Aptus 12 is the same (actually a $840 more!!) compared to the Aptus 10. Needless to say, I am scatching my head. I have sent you an email separately as to not confuse this thread

    Jag

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Yair, considering you're based in the UK, why is GB such a difficult place to buy a Leaf product in? This is the main reason why I've never owned an Leaf back due to the difficulty is finding a dealer other than Calumet who I consider too big a company to give real dealer support like smaller Phase One dealers do.

    A P65+ to Credo80 might be a nice upgrade in the near future if there is a good cross platform upgrade going. I don't need all the flashy focus features of the IQ180 but the better screen and 100% focus check might be tempting.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The real underlining issue here is there is not a damn thing out there in 35mm that can even come close to what a tech cam can do. You want great wide angle ,rise/ fall shift and movements you need a back the Credo is a great option for existing Leaf users to upgrade too or folks to buy new and when is cheaper costs a problem. LOL
    Guy, I have no doubt that, under perfect test conditions where the focus with the tech camera is nailed, it will "outperform" the D800, though by how much and in what ways remains to be seen. However, I am skeptical that, in real world situations in the field shooting landscapes where critical focus is critical, the proficient user of a tech camera will be able to nail it the way a D800 can nail it with Live View. The D800 also provides more depth of field compared to an IQ180.
    I expect we will see some real world testing like this at some point. I know that a Mr. Ashley in your Nikon forum has been comparing a D800 with an IQ180 on a DF, and it took him four tries, I think, to nail the focus with the DF before he could even start the comparison.
    Oh, and my point was not that the D800 is every bit as good as an IQ180, but it is nonetheless a game changer. A remarkable new camera. The Credo backs cannot remotely be considered game changers. A little bit less of what Phase One has already been offering for over a year. Perhaps this line of backs will take over the "low end" of Phase One's line and Phase has something really new and different to announce at Photokina, like a CMOS chipped back with 100mp that has "real" Live View and great high ISO performance.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by gazwas View Post
    Yair, considering you're based in the UK, why is GB such a difficult place to buy a Leaf product in? This is the main reason why I've never owned an Leaf back due to the difficulty is finding a dealer other than Calumet who I consider too big a company to give real dealer support like smaller Phase One dealers do.

    A P65+ to Credo80 might be a nice upgrade in the near future if there is a good cross platform upgrade going. I don't need all the flashy focus features of the IQ180 but the better screen and 100% focus check might be tempting.
    Hi Gareth, not sure I understand as there are 4 other dealers listed on our UK page in addition to Calumet. Peartree have been around for ages and all the others know the product well and promote it regularly on their sites/ newsletters etc. Hope this helps

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by hcubell View Post
    Guy, I have no doubt that, under perfect test conditions where the focus with the tech camera is nailed, it will "outperform" the D800, though by how much and in what ways remains to be seen. However, I am skeptical that, in real world situations in the field shooting landscapes where critical focus is critical, the proficient user of a tech camera will be able to nail it the way a D800 can nail it with Live View. The D800 also provides more depth of field compared to an IQ180.
    I expect we will see some real world testing like this at some point. I know that a Mr. Ashley in your Nikon forum has been comparing a D800 with an IQ180 on a DF, and it took him four tries, I think, to nail the focus with the DF before he could even start the comparison.
    Oh, and my point was not that the D800 is every bit as good as an IQ180, but it is nonetheless a game changer. A remarkable new camera. The Credo backs cannot remotely be considered game changers. A little bit less of what Phase One has already been offering for over a year. Perhaps this line of backs will take over the "low end" of Phase One's line and Phase has something really new and different to announce at Photokina, like a CMOS chipped back with 100mp that has "real" Live View and great high ISO performance.

    I already ran tests against the 160 and tech cam which are posted and Raws provided. In Nikon forum first blush.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Hi Gareth, not sure I understand as there are 4 other dealers listed on our UK page in addition to Calumet. Peartree have been around for ages and all the others know the product well and promote it regularly on their sites/ newsletters etc. Hope this helps

    Yair
    Thanks Yair

    I thought Teamwork were just a Phase Dealer, Peartree rental and Cambo just sold........ err.... Cambo.

    As for the others, you might as well have Jessops stock it!.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Honestly; have we gotten so lazy and spoiled as photographers that we can no longer do without "Live View"?!

    I know looking from the past and having to use Ground Glass, Loupes and Polaroids to assess composition and focus was a pain in the butt, but now with even the Credo and it's supposed "not even close to good enough" live view there are still complaints that it will not allow perfect live image focusing or "perfect auto focus"?

    Good grief, I still use an aptus 65s hand held on my Cambo RS and manage to do street photography I am happy with.

    I guess I look at the advances in the cameras and backs and am looking for things like what Phase / Leaf are coming out with; finer resolution, better ISO performance, more ruggedness and finally (hopefully soon, oh please be soon) the long promised USB 3.0 interface for tethering.

    If it gets to the point where the camera perfectly captures everything in every situation with no more requirement than pointing it in the correct general direction; what would anyone need me for?

    Oh well, on that day I guess I can become a coffee barrista or something.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    +1

    I must just have special superhuman powers to focus my cameras.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Saying we are spoiled and lazy photographers to want better live view is just plain wrong. Who in their right mind would not want a feature that allowed critical, precision focusing, LIVE off the film plane rather than a glass/fresnel screen?

    I fully understand people WANTING a better live view experience but NOT wanting it leaves me totally baffled why anyone would not want to remove one of the most fundamental aspects of capture out of the "What could go wrong" equation.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    Honestly; have we gotten so lazy and spoiled as photographers that we can no longer do without "Live View"?!
    Yes


    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    I know looking from the past and having to use Ground Glass, Loupes and Polaroids to assess composition and focus was a pain in the butt, but now with even the Credo and it's supposed "not even close to good enough" live view there are still complaints that it will not allow perfect live image focusing or "perfect auto focus"?
    At least in my case for studio work, It's not about focus, or even the "pia" factor...it's about money/time/access. When your camera is 10ft in the air over a complex set, their is very little time to build a scaffold, climb up there, as well as your art director, stylists, and set designer, to then look thru the tiny viewfinder, see changes that need to be made, climb back down, make the changes, shoot the shot, evaluate it....god, I'm getting tired just writing all the steps!
    In the old days, before LV, we could do about 2-3 set cover shots per day, now we can do 20-30...with client signoff!!!
    And let's not even talk about remote access (client is in Seattle, art director in NYC, Photo Studio in Ca,...etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    If it gets to the point where the camera perfectly captures everything in every situation with no more requirement than pointing it in the correct general direction; what would anyone need me for?

    Oh well, on that day I guess I can become a coffee barrista or something.
    I used to run a coffee cart and let me tell ya, it's no picnic, either! You think it's just coffee, but somehow there are now 300 ways to prepare it and flavors like baskinrobbins and organic, free range, sustainable, free trade....ahhhhh! No thanks!

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    Honestly; have we gotten so lazy and spoiled as photographers that we can no longer do without "Live View"?!
    I spend plenty of time eyeballing ground glass screens and other old-fangled focus analogs on everything from half-frame 35 cameras to big view cameras. On the large format cameras, the view on the big GG is part of the entertainment value - it's glorious!

    But when I'm doing repro work with my EOS 60D + macro lens + copy stand setup, the crisp, magnified live view on the 60D swivel-LCD is a lifesaver. I get better results than anything I can manage with a magnifier clipped on the viewfinder, and more quickly and with less hassle, too. My productivity, measured by number of high-quality captures per unit of time, is way higher with the LV.

    If I were trying to shoot MF digital in the field with the intent of making wall-size prints, I'd want it there too. So yes, I want to hear about what the MF vendors are doing to make progress in this area.

  33. #133
    Member JonMo's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    I have a difficult enough time just trying to figure out HOW to order the coffee let alone make it!

    The point of my statements was that the amount of angst regarding the fact the medium format systems have not been able to instantly create a match for the tech ease of the new dslr systems.

    I have always felt they fill different needs.
    I use a 5d mk Ii for lowlight
    A 1d mk IV for sports and long lenses
    A digital back for architecture and landscapes
    And my aformentioned Cambo for walk around

    I understand the increase in out put for some pros, I would never shoot football with my tech cam as my focussing skills are not that good; but in repro work, architecture and landscape where critical focus is required, my goto tech is tethering.

    Perhaps I need better glasses for staring at tiny screens.

    I don't chide people for wanting a feature ( USB 3.0 tethering please ) just find that the level of disappointment and the projection of absolute need is a bit much.

    If it is that important to you that's just fine.
    But I believe my own view can be considered just as valid

  34. #134
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    I don't chide people for wanting a feature ( USB 3.0 tethering please ) just find that the level of disappointment and the projection of absolute need is a bit much.

    If it is that important to you that's just fine.
    But I believe my own view can be considered just as valid
    Forum talk is the new Nikon D800 being a game changer. The first MF back manufacturer to pull off 20-30fps live view will be a game changer IMO and is probably one of the MOST WANTED feature of all the photographers I know who run MFD gear.

    Your view may be valid for a select few but the majority, especially in combination with the new generation IQ/Credo screens are crying out for this feature.

  35. #135
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Sigh,
    labled as a minority again.

    Oh well I bow to your obvious superior knowledge and accept that oposing views are simply the ramblings of the uninformed with no contact with others in the profession.



    Have a good day Gareth

  36. #136
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Oh and I still want leaf to activate the usb 3.0 function as soon as possible please.

    That port on the IQ series with no purpose is driving us PC Laptop owners crazy.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    I for one don't care about USB3 and find it laughable, that Phase still hasn't managed to deliver a feature announced from the beginning.

    Well back to the point, for me the ONLY next step which will move me to upgrade or get a new back IS CMOS and LIVEVIEW and I mean real one...

  38. #138
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Yair, thanks for samples.

    (PS: i couldn't care less for live view, and even less so for CMOS, now lets get back to looking at them Credo backs?)

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    How many MFDB users use Mac vs PC? Last I checked, no Mac comes with USB3 natively (maybe as an add-on card for a Mac Pro). So that just leaves mainly PC users, unless this new tethering capability will work over a USB2 connection as well?

  40. #140
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    That may just be because at one point the only laptop available with full firewire 800 was made by Mac.

    By the way, the new Macs no longer have Firewire ports.

    And since the Phase and Leaf products both advertised that the products were going to work with USB and have the port already I guess I can be excused as an obviously lowly PC user to hopefully have them work.

    Maybe some of us prefer a laptop with an exceptional screen like the Lenovo W Series with a sturdy shock resistant body to take into the woods because we LIKE to work off a giant screen instead of the equivalent of a glorified iPhone.

    Since the tethering is supposed to work for BOTH USB 3.0 and back-wards to USB 2.0; maybe it may be usable for us non Mac people since no MF back has a THUNDER port.

    How insulting is "How many MFDB user use Mac vs PC?"

    Last I checked even Capture 1 software worked on my laptop.

    As far as getting this thread off of my being an idiot for not wanting a better live view;

    I am excited by the new Credo and am wondering when the item "I" need which is already built into the back will be activated.

  41. #141
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    Sigh,
    labled as a minority again.

    Oh well I bow to your obvious superior knowledge and accept that oposing views are simply the ramblings of the uninformed with no contact with others in the profession.



    Have a good day Gareth
    Sorry JonMo, I just don't get your rumblings about why you wouldn't want better features like a quality live view in future digital backs? As for your above post, it just comes acorss as childish and your flippant comment about my "superior knowledge" just doesn't help healthy discussion. I was not the one claiming those who want live view to be lazy and spoilt!

    Focus is one of those things that can make or break a picture and having tools to help make a technical problem easier, freeing up the creative aspects of image making is only a good thing IMO.

    However, this is drifting OT so I appogise to Yair for high jacking his topic.

  42. #142
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    No worries Gareth, we're talking about Live View which is one of the Credo's new features after all

    I used LV for some of the images posted above. Didn't have to as the 150mm/2.8 is easy to focus manually but I wanted to get some practice with it and to get a feel of its practicality.
    I must say that it worked really well in those conditions and made it easy to move quickly from one car to another as I only had 45 minutes to run through the museum.

    Cheers

    Yair
    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    All macs still have FW800 in addition to TB. FW800 is fine and pllenty fast enough for the extremely small file sizes we are talking about here (less than 100mb) but there are adaptors to convert the thunderbolt port to the slower usb3, if that is preferred.
    I have nothing but sympathy for engineers trying to keep up with all the new file transfer protocols, but I learned long ago "the great thing about standards is that we have so many of them!"

  44. #144
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Wow. I can focus a MFD back on a ground glass on a view camera for reproduction work and the image is perfectly in focus. I can focus manual focus lenses in my MFD SLR and the images are perfectly in focus. It really is not hard. I am sure Live View is nice to have, but it is far from a requirement.

    I remember when I first looked into MFD and the tolerance boogyman was always raised. Oooh, MFD is so hard, it is almost impossible to focus unless you can bench press 200lb, DoF does not exist, etc. The reality is that it is no more difficult to use a MFD camera than any other camera.

    If MFD cameras have Live View, that is great, if not, I will still continue to take sharp images.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Quote Originally Posted by JonMo View Post
    Honestly; have we gotten so lazy and spoiled as photographers that we can no longer do without "Live View"?!
    In my case I do not think I have got lazy and would not mind focussing trough a VF or GG if it is for holidays and passion.
    But doing volume in products live view is a Godsend. Simple. There is nothing rewarding or challenging doing the same focus guessing again and again.

    Why should we not expect something from a camera that is 20x as expensive?

    Again, if not using live view would give any special benefit, then one can discuss about it, but it doesnt in those cases where live view is helpful.

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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    To clarify my "insulting" question above...

    I was just trying to speculate on why USB 3.0 support does not seem imminent in either the already one year on released IQ backs nor in the up and coming Credos. My speculation would be simply that features have to be prioritized, just like with any product, and if it will only satisfy a small number of users, that particular feature may be a low priority. Again, just pure, unadulterated, wild speculation.

    Now, my personal "must have" for the Credo is probably even lower priority than that, but I don't want to continue beating that horse down.

  47. #147
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Easy now guys,
    yes some of my comments are "flippant. and I would have though somewhat tongue in cheek.
    I was finding it interesting the amount of concern for the specific quality of its live view function. Even read one that said it shouldn't be called that because it is not "true" live view.
    Notice when I made my original post I used the word "we". Usually I take that as self inclusive and was supposed to be somewhat self depreciating as well. I have been know to think wistfully of missing features and needs within a new product myself.
    Perhaps my humor, which has occasionally been described as "dry", does not translate well to the drama of on-line forum.

    I guess my personal windmill of the USB port is due to my own needs and fond memories of the Bluetooth function on my old Aptus 65s that I never really got to use. If the port is there, why can't I use it?

    Please; any offense was not meant; just some perspective from those with perhaps a different view.

    Besides: I may have a mental deficiency, my favorite walk around cam has no view finder, manual aperture, no light meter, no way to check focus, manual cocking of the shutter and unlike Don, Guy and others who also use the Cambo RS; no fancy easy hold wooden grips.

    The first step is admitting I have a problem.

  48. #148
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Back to the topic then shall we?

    This morning, outside in the garden. Both images are of Live View running on the back's display, the right one is at 100% zoom



    And as a reference:

    Yair Shahar | Product Manager | Phase One | Mamiya Leaf
    e: [email protected] | m: +44(0)77 8992 8199 | yaya's blog
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  49. #149
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Congratulations on a very nice evolution of the Leaf backs.

    Always have had a soft spot for all things Leaf. It is just something about the look and feel of the files ...

    -Marc

  50. #150
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    Re: Mamiya Leaf introduces the new Leaf CREDO

    Actually that looks better than my Phase in Live view. Hmmm
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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