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Sinar M system

Gilles L.

New member
There is hardly any discussion on the Sinar M and I have not found any US$ pricing. Does anyone have any experience with the system and the different lens modules? Reading the specs, it is a really attractive system for anyone wanting versatility. This looks like a nice partner for the 54LV.

Any information greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Gilles

www.gilleslorin.com
 

David Klepacki

New member
Hi Gilles,

I have a Sinar m camera system, and I really love it. It is extremely flexible due to its modular design built around its focal plane shutter (1/2000 maximum). It can be configured as a stand alone 645 camera which can take four special AF Zeiss lenses (40, 80, 120, 180) as well as all the Hasselblad Zeiss C/CF/CFi/CFE/F/FE lenses with focus confirmation. The autofocus mechanism is extremely fast and accurate. It also has a Nikon lens module that accepts all the Nikon F lenses as well as the Zeiss ZF lenses, but without autofocus capability. And, of course, it can be used with a Sinar P3 view camera as well. In addition, it has interchangeable viewfinders for either waist-level or 90-degree prism.

Basically, if you love Zeiss glass, you will love this camera. Zeiss makes four special AF lenses, three of which are improved autofocus versions of the following Hasselblad V lenses: 40mm CFE IF, 120mm CFE, and 180mm CFE. The fourth AF lens is an 80mm / F2.8, which is a completely new and improved lens design from Zeiss, with the latest improvements in flare reduction, contrast enhancement, and of course now the autofocus. And, all lenses are sharp wide open.

The only disadvantage for some people is that the flash sync is not very high, only 1/100, and you cannot make use of the leaf shutters in the Hassy lenses. To me, it is not a big deal, since if I need higher flash sync, I switch to a Hy6 or even a Hasselblad V camera. The advantages of the Sinar m are in so many other areas as mentioned above, plus its ability to do 16-shot images with the 54H back with "true" MLU.

I will try to post some images, to help you see what the camera looks like.
 

Gilles L.

New member
Hi David,

I really appreciate the answer and the images. There is so little info available on it, it is nice be a able to see it, and also see how the Hasselblad lens fits on it. When using the hasselblad (or Nikon for that matter), do you have to use the lens in step-down mode, or will the aperture work normally? I assume it is step-down mode because the Sinaron lenses do not have aperture rings. Also, I assume the digital back and camera are individually powered, right? Are basic exif transmitted to the back as well?

It is a beautiful camera system; I love its simplicity, and the fact that it can be used both a 645 and then in the studio it can be attached to a P3.

Do you know how much the body runs these days?

Thanks for sharing,

Gilles
 

David Klepacki

New member
The different modules work differently. The Sinar AF mirror module has a nice large AF sensor and also accommodates the Hasselblad V lenses, so you get AF confirmation with the V lenses. However, there is no mechanism to stop-down the V lenses nor operate the leaf shutters in the lenses that have them. To me, stopping down is a fair trade-off for the fast and accurate focus confirmation.

Now, with the Nikon module, it is the opposite. With the Nikon mirror module, there is no autofocus capability, but there is auto-stopdown of the lenses.

The camera is powered by its own battery module (not shown in images). There are two types of battery, a compact one with flash shoe that can attach to the left side, or a larger one that can go underneath the body. In addition, it can be powered directly from any wall socket (with a very long cord) with an optional AC power module.

Exif information is transmitted to the back and obtained in conjunction with the Sinar Exposure software (same as with Hy6).

The prices are standardized by Sinar and you can find the 2008 price list online. I believe the body is roughly 6400 euro (about US 8600), but I believe there is a 20% promotion going on, at least in the US and until the end of the month. So, if you are serious about getting into this system, now is the time.

Let me know if you have any more questions.
 

Gilles L.

New member
Many thanks David, much appreciated. I have no other questions really for the time being, except that I wonder why there is so little talk about the system. It is indeed quite expensive, but no more than the Hy6 for instance, in which I am very interested as well. Any thoughts?
 

BJNY

Member
Thank you, David, for the info and the photos.
May I ask how bright the view is through the prism compared to the Hy6?

If you're willing and able,
may I see the M sitting next to a Canon or Nikon for size reference, please?

Regards,
Billy
 

David Klepacki

New member
Many thanks David, much appreciated. I have no other questions really for the time being, except that I wonder why there is so little talk about the system. It is indeed quite expensive, but no more than the Hy6 for instance, in which I am very interested as well. Any thoughts?
The Sinar m is very popular among the P3 users and those who mainly shoot for conservation and critical documentation purposes (e.g., museums) with the 54H back in 16-shot mode (equivalent of 4.5 micron pixel size, but with all of the advantages of 9 micron pixels). It is also one of the best kept secrets in automobile photography, since it can do high resolution multishot imaging with the Rodenstock 28mm HR lens. Many of these people just don't partake of the various forums.

As for the Hy6, what can I say? It is another brilliant camera from Sinar. In some sense it is completely complementary to the Sinar m, since the Hy6 uses leaf shutter lenses exclusively. However, it handles totally differently, especially with rotating back and configurable side grip. I do not think it is fair to even compare these two cameras, as they both excel in different ways. That's why I shoot both.
 

David Klepacki

New member
Thank you, David, for the info and the photos.
May I ask how bright the view is through the prism compared to the Hy6?

If you're willing and able,
may I see the M sitting next to a Canon or Nikon for size reference, please?

Regards,
Billy
Hi Billy, there is no comparison, the Hy6 viewfinder is much brighter, but it is a little unfair to compare a 6x6 with a 645. The Sinar m viewfinder is about as bright as the Contax 645, if that helps. I don't have a Canon or Nikon to compare with, but here is a shot next to one of my Contax 645 bodies. As you know, the Contax 645 is pretty small and comparable to one of the 35mm pro cameras in size. All I can say is that the Sinar m is well balanced, and handles nicely with the sinaron and Hasselblad V lenses.
 
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BJNY

Member
Thank you again, David.

• The M looks to be using a Mamiya 645 prism, yes?
• Do the M AF Zeiss lenses and Hasselblad lenses mount on the same mirror module?

• I wonder if an arTec lens will mounted directly onto the M (sans mirror module)?
 

David Klepacki

New member
Hi Graham, i am familiar with this review. I have to disagree with the author's judgement about the autofocus speed. Certainly, it is not comparable to the speed of a 35mm system like the Canon 1DIII. However, as owner of both the Hy6 and the Sinar m, I can verify that the autofocus speed is very fast and NOT one bit slower than the Hy6. Also, the 120mm lens focuses somewhat slower than the other lenses, but I was told that it took a good deal of engineering to even make such an autofocus makro-planar lens. Zeiss was not able to do it for the Contax 120, but made some innovations for the Sinar 120 lens to make it happen. The 40 and the 80 are practically instantaneous focus for me.

What I also like about the Sinar m is that the viewfinder information, including the left-right focus indicators, are exactly the same as in the Hy6. This makes shooting with both cameras really transparent from the viewfinder perspective.

In fact, as much as I love the Contax 645, the Sinar m autofocus mechanism blows it away. The Sinar m can lock onto focus instantly in dim situations where the Contax 645 is either unable or "hunts" for focus.

So, I guess if you are coming from the Canon/Nikon world, you might say that the autofocus appears slow, but for a medium format camera, I believe it to be as fast or faster than any other.
 

David Klepacki

New member
Thank you again, David.

• The M looks to be using a Mamiya 645 prism, yes?
• Do the M AF Zeiss lenses and Hasselblad lenses mount on the same mirror module?

• I wonder if an arTec lens will mounted directly onto the M (sans mirror module)?
I have to admit....the prism does look a little Mamiya-like, but I do not think Mamiya has a removable prism.

Yes, the M AF Zeiss lenses and Hasselblad V lenses share the same mirror module.

No, the arTec lenses will not mount onto the M. Currently, there is only the Rodenstock HR 28mm lens that is offered on the M, and it has an exclusive helicoid mount.
 
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