D800 impact - Hasselblad cuts prices 22,9 %

[prakash]

I hate to say it, but I think the launch and pricing structure of the new Credo´s is a big mistake. They should have cut the leaf prices and do an agressive Pricing structure with the aptus backs catching the lower segment and fighting the 35mm 36MPix + X bodies to come. Now they have moved Leaf upwards and lowered their adaptability to pricecuts to fight back. The Credos may even cannibalize the IQ´s which is the second mistake as they are too feature similar.

I´m sorry, but this was not thought out well.

Regards
Stefan

Stefan
I think you are right ......big mistakes.

I actually don't understand why Team Phase One chose to assimilate
the Leaf Aptus product line to a "B" pricing/features of the IQ product line.
What is the difference between a Credo and an IQ other than price and a couple of features like focus mask & electronic level?
For the tech camera market sector, the Aptus 10 & 12 AFi versions are truly innovative products with the internal rotating sensors and tilting LCD panels.......all they needed was a new higher resolution LCD panel (they could even choose to include "luxury " features like focus mask and electronic level) and a more competitive price point.
It seems that Team Phase has chosen not to invest in the Leaf Aptus product line........removing the "functional" features (rotating sensor & tilting LCD) and replacing with a better LCD and labeling it a Credo.

After acquiring Leaf, why not maintain the product differentiation and evolve that difference since all sales profits come to the same corporation?

There is innovation pressure from the top:broader dynamic range sensor from the Red One Cinema. Innovation pressure from the bottom: DSLR pricing and increase in pixels, & a working live view.

You are right, not thought out well......


regards

prakash

 

[Nathan W. Lediard]

I dont thin Hasselblad really care too much about what Nikon releases... As for it being the reason for a price campaign? purely speculation...

Lots of this speculation can be seen all the time with the Nikon vs Canon discussions that dominate the boards, and one of the reasons I dont bother with most forums anymore.. lots of amateurs speculating about the latest and greatest and if canon does this then surely Nikon must do that... and now Nikon has gone up to 36 megapixels folks are doing the same now with hasselblad... well I dont buy it.

I just invested in a h4d-40 and some lenses for my business... AFTER the d800 came out.. did it offer me anything (apart from more pixels) that my 1DsmkIII did not offer me... not really... not for what I do... very high ISO is not needed for what I do... neither is Video... and canon are really chasing the video ball at the moment....
I bought (back) into Hasselblad because I can do certain things with it that are not as easliy done with 35mm cameras... real 1/800 sync for example... And of course the look.. really on big prints and not on small web images it does show. The quality of the files is just amazing too, the lenses are fantastic, and I sold my EF200 f2.0L partly to pay for the hassy... I am very happy with my Hasselblad.. and even if i bought it at full price just a month before they made a discount offer.... I am still happy... great camera just in a different league to anything canon or nikon have.

just my 2 kroner on the subject.

 

[Shashin]

It IS _A_ fact.....

Regards
Stefan

PS.: Sometimes I would wish I would be prooved wrong.........

LOL. It could not be simply arranging facts to fit your conclusion?

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

A more sensible thread title would have simply referred to the reduced prices. There are many reasons why Hasselblad might have reduced prices, the D800 probably the least likely of them. I'd wager the D800 effect is irrelevant in this decision; more likely it reflects the general state of the world economy or possiblly a new or updated camera in the works.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

A more sensible thread title would have simply referred to the reduced prices. There are many reasons why Hasselblad might have reduced prices, the D800 probably the least likely of them. I'd wager the D800 effect is irrelevant in this decision; more likely it reflects the general state of the world economy or possiblly a new or updated camera in the works.

Bingo and I said it in my first post. We are in a cycle

 

[stephengilbert]

I don't think the intent of this thread was to be sensible. Some people seem to enjoy "stirring the pot."

 

[Quentin_Bargate]

Bingo and I said it in my first post. We are in a cycle

So long as its not a downward spiral

 

[gazwas]

I'd wager the D800 effect is irrelevant in this decision; more likely it reflects the general state of the world economy or possiblly a new or updated camera in the works.

Possibly a new camera from HB!

From past track record that's got to be a least 18months of actually reaching users.

On a serious note, I'd love to see HB deliver to market a killer product and come back fighting but I fear it will just be a competitor to the IQ/Credo backs rather than something totally new. Great for existing HB users but not that great for the MFD industry. Unless HB's new owners have very deep pockets I don't see how any MF company has enough financial clout to release an industry changing product now.

 

[subrata1965]

BTW, I was at Calumet last week, I heard somebody say that the time on the waiting list for a D800 is now 8 months... Is that indeed true?

My local Nikon dealer said "may be 6 months". They don't have clear idea. So far they only sold 4.

 

[subrata1965]

Bingo and I said it in my first post. We are in a cycle

"It would appear that the lower end of the medium format industry has been formally put on notice by Nikon." Michael Reichmann

 

[subrata1965]

I dont thin Hasselblad really care too much about what Nikon releases... As for it being the reason for a price campaign? purely speculation...

Lots of this speculation can be seen all the time with the Nikon vs Canon discussions that dominate the boards, and one of the reasons I dont bother with most forums anymore.. lots of amateurs speculating about the latest and greatest and if canon does this then surely Nikon must do that... and now Nikon has gone up to 36 megapixels folks are doing the same now with hasselblad... well I dont buy it.

I just invested in a h4d-40 and some lenses for my business... AFTER the d800 came out.. did it offer me anything (apart from more pixels) that my 1DsmkIII did not offer me... not really... not for what I do... very high ISO is not needed for what I do... neither is Video... and canon are really chasing the video ball at the moment....
I bought (back) into Hasselblad because I can do certain things with it that are not as easliy done with 35mm cameras... real 1/800 sync for example... And of course the look.. really on big prints and not on small web images it does show. The quality of the files is just amazing too, the lenses are fantastic, and I sold my EF200 f2.0L partly to pay for the hassy... I am very happy with my Hasselblad.. and even if i bought it at full price just a month before they made a discount offer.... I am still happy... great camera just in a different league to anything canon or nikon have.

just my 2 kroner on the subject.

1) You may not need high ISO & Video. However many other photographers needs it, ncluding me. What we were missing is high ISO with high mega pixel. Nikon delivered it!

2) Comparatively how many photographers need high ISO sync? None of the landscape photographers and even not all portrait photographers.

3) You may have deep pocket and you don't care even you lost 20% value in one month. However many of use cares about our hard earned money. Did you notice that one of moderator of this forum already downsized his MFDB for "business reason" and expanding his Nikon lens collections?

Personally I would like MFDB to survive and protect my investment in this technology. But I don't think that is happening. That's the reality, everyone likes it or not.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

"It would appear that the lower end of the medium format industry has been formally put on notice by Nikon." Michael Reichmann

Since when was MF format never been on notice. This threat is every new camera that has hit the market. Yes the Nikon is great and sure it has 36mpx and of course anything below that in MF will be questioned. Does any of this actually change what MF can actually produce. And yes I went down to a iq 140 . I don't have to worry about a crop factor anymore since I don't shoot the DF which is the only reason I went to the 160 in the first place. Since I don't shoot the DF and use a tech cam than I can drop down to the crop without affecting much. End of day and I said this for several years 40 is enough for me and I absolutely loved my P40. That has not changed and never will. Please tell me now we have a Nikon does that mean all our backs all of a sudden just became dinosaurs. No let me tell you I'm in both camps and I will support both camps because they are diffrent and they do many things for me. Everything a Pro buys is client driven or at least should be. If I had life my way I would have a M9 three lenses and go have fun. Lol

 

[Guy Mancuso]

1) You may not need high ISO & Video. However many other photographers needs it, ncluding me. What we were missing is high ISO with high mega pixel. Nikon delivered it!

2) Comparatively how many photographers need high ISO sync? None of the landscape photographers and even not all portrait photographers.

3) You may have deep pocket and you don't care even you lost 20% value in one month. However many of use cares about our hard earned money. Did you notice that one of moderator of this forum already downsized his MFDB for "business reason" and expanding his Nikon lens collections?

Personally I would like MFDB to survive and protect my investment in this technology. But I don't think that is happening. That's the reality, everyone likes it or not.

You just bought a brand new BMW you drove it off the lot and into the street you just depreciated about 5 k before you had a chance to roll the window down. Luckily I was talking BMW and not Chevy. Go buy a boat and watch your money sink even the fish can't catch it. This is just life

Honestly I'm sensing sour grapes here. Forget your investment go shoot and create art, none of this you can control so go have fun with it and enjoy the amazing files you can get from it. I really mean that in the most friendly way. Enjoy it don't curse it. It's fun and as a hobbyists it should be all about the fun and joy of photography. Photography is a poor investment unless you got Leica gear right now. Lol

 

[subrata1965]

You just bought a brand new BMW you drove it off the lot and into the street you just depreciated about 5 k before you had a chance to roll the window down. Luckily I was talking BMW and not Chevy. Go buy a boat and watch your money sink even the fish can't catch it. This is just life

Honestly I'm sensing sour grapes here. Forget your investment go shoot and create art, none of this you can control so go have fun with it and enjoy the amazing files you can get from it. I really mean that in the most friendly way. Enjoy it don't curse it. It's fun and as a hobbyists it should be all about the fun and joy of photography. Photography is a poor investment unless you got Leica gear right now. Lol

Guy, with due respect to you, BMW analogy is meaning less here.

Price of the BMW will remain same in the dealership. So my selling price will be relative to what dealers will be selling. I guarantee you that whether it is BMW or Prius, I will be able to sell it.

Now, I have seen how many Phase One backs are waiting to be sold in GetDPI & LL and I know since how long those are waiting.

 

[bab]

Lease and trade ins always demand a higher mark up with brand names to continue selling new product. You don't have to lease a d800 it's a cash deal.

 

[Guy Mancuso]

What you not watching or understanding is last year the amount of IQ backs and P65 for that matter because the upgrade was very inexpensive to the IQ 180 that the numbers of new units sold was unprecedented . I'm serious the numbers are huge it was a big hit and almost every p65 user jumped all over it. We are talking sales in the quadruple numbers than all these dealers are familiar with in past years. Now with that amount also comes the attrition . People decide its too much hassle or whatever reason they have. Or downsizing or just getting out. We are talking mostly hobbyist here and things change for them they don't have to have anything for that matter. Sure the Nikon has has some affect but I think that is mostly fence sitters and people upgrading. It's really just a cycle. I worked in the aerospace industry for 16 years as a shooter no less but in commercial aircraft area they had 5 and 10 year cycles that either your building avionics for new or your not . Very little middle ground in those cycles.

I know you just got in but really is this having a true effect on you right now from going out and shooting and enjoying your new toys . No its not and the more time you put on it the less you will feel the depreciation on it as well and get some use out of it. Honestly I would not be paying much attention to any of this as a hobbyist. Hobbyist mentality is usually buy what I want regardless of price and regardless of depreciation it's something you enjoy outside your day job. Ask some of the hobbyist here they don't care about this stuff they just want to enjoy what they bought. I have two kids you know how much crap I have bought them over the years and never recouped one dime from resale of it. That is if I can find it or it's broken. Lol

Honestly don't fall into this fireball from hell torch throwing going on. If I was truly worried about it I would have sold my tech cam and got out completely. I'm not I enjoy it and it serves a need but you also have to realize that Pros do weird stuff too and make adjustments, we do not have the luxury of thinking like a hobbyist. I said this many times I envy you folks. You can do whatever the hell you want here.

I hope that helps you, I really do I love this business and I love seeing people actually enjoy it and not think about this stuff. Have fun

 

[Wayne Fox]

As far as Hasselblad dropping prices, I would think the normal product cycle/cost to manufacture could be a big part. By now much of the R&D costs of the sensors as well as improvement in yields because of new manufacturing tech could easily have brought those prices down ... it could be this may still yield similar margins to what they saw when the cameras were new.

It's not like dropping the price made them at all competitive with the d800 ... if that was their reason, then their marketing staff may need a paradigm shift. While I don't doubt is was a factor, my guess it was probably gonna happen even if the d800 would have only been a 24mp offering.

 

[fotografz]

Hi Stefan, That makes sense and also clears up my confusion about Leica opening boutique shops.

But then that does not explain the MM. I guess I am easily confused.

No confusion. Leica is targeting ONLY high end and/or specialists buyers and offering unique products to fit them. In their business model, Nikon and Canon nor Phase One and Hasselblad are among the completive set for Leica ... they do not exist.

The Leica S2 is a one of a kind and has been strongly positioned as a "Fashion and Beauty" tool (marketing by association). The M9 is the only FF traditional rangefinder, as will be the M10 ... the M Monochrom is even more exclusive. Exclusivity sells, and often sells even in a crappy economy. Leica is placing all retail environments in toni locations and continues to offer designer label M9s ... all part of a well thought out strategy of marketing by association. Birds with Bucks flock together.

BTW, this particular Luxury market is highly susceptible to history ... products with linage have a foot in the door so to speak. Leica has a storied history to draw upon, and that is exactly what they are doing. It is a patina that adds a reassuring and softening touch to high technology.

BTW, stuff like this sells like hot cakes in emerging financial powerhouse economies. China being one. Especially European luxury Brands. If I recall correctly, the CEO of Hasselblad made mention of this when the European equity company took over less than a year ago ... but retained the former Asian owners on the board (guess why). Hasselblad also has a storied history which cannot be faked, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how to capitalize on that. Whether they do or not remains to be seen.

-Marc

 

[MGrayson]

About 10 years ago, there was a joke circulating among the Russians with whom I worked:
"Nice tie! How much did you pay for it?"
"$700"
"Fool! I know a place that has it at twice the price!"

--Matt

 

[jotloob]

Honestly I'm sensing sour grapes here. Forget your investment go shoot and create art, none of this you can control so go have fun with it and enjoy the amazing files you can get from it. I really mean that in the most friendly way. Enjoy it don't curse it. It's fun and as a hobbyists it should be all about the fun and joy of photography. Photography is a poor investment unless you got Leica gear right now. Lol

Guy

I can only agree to what you say here . :thumbs:

And additional to that , I would like to make you guys have a look to Dan Lindberg's phantastic interior images taken with a DB with less than 40MP .
That made me think of going for an APTUS II-7 with 33MP fat pixels insted of a back with 60 or 80 MP .
Going "backwards" could be going forward .