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Focus Stacking and Hasselblad

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
No. Automated focus stacking where focus is computer controlled using a Nikon is far better.
It avoids touching the camera during the focus stacking. You set up how many steps you want, press a button and it's all done automatically. You can also do the whole thing in live view mode so you don't even have mirror vibration.

On top of this for a fraction of the cost of an MF system you could add a motorized panoramic system from Seitz

VR Drive

With a high end Nikon you could have focus stacking and automated multi row panoramic shooting and still have money left over for a couple of awesome trips.
OP doesn't want to tether.

Also his question (and my answer) were specific to medium format.
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
When tilt is introduced, is focus stacking possible, or what the result is going to be?
Simple answer - not easily.

Well, yes ok you certainly CAN do a focus stack but it probably isn't going to be what you think it should be. When tilt is used you actually rotate the plane of focus so that it typically runs from near -> far at an angle and it extends out as a focus edge. Changing your focus on the lens isn't simply going to move the focus point backwards & forwards as you might expect from non-tilted operation and so the effect is not going to be simply to give you a stack of images to combine for greater DoF.

You'll save yourself a lot of grief if you do either focus stacks OR lens tilts/swings.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Focus stacking is really not rocket science. It is very easy to do. While automated focus stacking is neat, making a stack with a manual focus lens is simple.
IF you have a rock solid tripod.

But you also get better results with precise focus increments and more images in the stack. That is why automation is much better.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
OP doesn't want to tether.

Also his question (and my answer) were specific to medium format.
I guess you missed this part. ;)

I read a comparison between the 120/4 on a H3D vs. Nikon 105/2.8 on D3 { Hasselblad vs Nikon | Nadine Shaw Photography } which said he could not get good results with the Hassey. Will appreciate if someone can drop a few notes about it.
While he did say he does not want to tether he may not be aware that you can control a Nikon from a small device like the Samsung Slate or even smaller.
Being able to finalize or preview focus stacks in the field with a low cost portable device is priceless. 4GB of RAM and really fast SSD virtual memory can handle big stacks.

This fall Nikon is coming out with it own Android (and later iOS) software to control Nikons wirelessly so all you would need is a good smart phone.

Nikon bringing DSLR wireless control, photo transfer to Android devices now, iOS in the fall

With this new USB to WiFi adapter it will no longer be necessary to have a physical tether.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
When tilt is introduced, is focus stacking possible, or what the result is going to be?
Not a good idea, because you get lateral movement when you chage focus and have the lens tilted. You could use shift to realine the axis, but it's hard to find it precisely.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
IF you have a rock solid tripod.

But you also get better results with precise focus increments and more images in the stack. That is why automation is much better.
Actually, you don't. Unless you are not paying attention, the focus step is easy to judge. All but one of my microscopes are automated. The stacking did not become better because of the automation, just easier, not that it was difficult. Done stacking with regular cameras too, not hard at all. A good staking program will also align images, not that I have a problem with my tripods moving.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
When tilt is introduced, is focus stacking possible, or what the result is going to be?
I bet you are a belt and braces kind of guy. Why do both? They are simply two different techniques that are trying to achieve the same thing.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
A good staking program will also align images, not that I have a problem with my tripods moving.
Any pixel pushing around reduces resolution.

One of the areas where focus stacking is used is with long lenses. Just try looking through the camera while you touch the focusing ring.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
I bet you are a belt and braces kind of guy. Why do both? They are simply two different techniques that are trying to achieve the same thing.
There are times when both can work well together.
If you want a shallow depth of field look on a deep set, but totally sharp for a
certain amount of the depth when shooting an inclined subject.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
Any pixel pushing around reduces resolution.

One of the areas where focus stacking is used is with long lenses. Just try looking through the camera while you touch the focusing ring.
I have looked though the camera. I do focus stacking all the time.

And pushing pixels, as you can it, does not reduce resolution in focus stacking.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
I have looked though the camera. I do focus stacking all the time.

And pushing pixels, as you can it, does not reduce resolution in focus stacking.

I was not being sarcastic... just saying that with a long lens it does not take much for camera or tripod movement for it to show.
 

dick

New member
...shoot a series of focus planes throughout your image. Depending upon the scene that may be as simple as zone focusing at various distances for foreground through middle-ground all the way out to the distance/infinity.

As regards focusing rails - you'll only need this if you are shooting macro. For landscape, leave it at home because it isn't going to help you.
You could get technical and use f8 for minimum diffraction and then calculate (using DOF formulae or on-line calculators) precisely where to focus... this would optimise the MBs of data your computer has to handle.

I have considered using an automated focus-stacking rail, like the StackShot, on the rear standard of a view camera with an electronic shutter.

Hi,
There is as you say only one focus point but there is live view. You can also move the focus in small, medium or large steps via the software. Check out the relevant pages in the Phocus software manual (pages 34-35). I have not done any focus stacking work, what software do you use?
Yes... I want to get out and try this soon... manual focus stacking without touching the camera... for when tilt cannot get the whole scene sharp.

For focus stacking your best choice is not MF.
Use a Nikon D800 and the software Control my Nikon.
At last a reason to buy a Nikon!
Anyway not to tout MF compared to Nikon (I use both) but in this case there are solutions for both (where as the Nikon can have another advantage because of its smaller sensor BTW).

It would be nice if HB would built automatic focus stacking in as well, that should be possible certainly when shooting tethered...
I have discussed this with David Grover of Hasselblad, and he says that it is not possible, as the (current) lenses do not send accurate focus distance numbers back to the camera - but it should be easy to automate the above manual remote stacking system, just by counting the number of manual focusing steps.

Simple answer - not easily.

Well, yes ok you certainly CAN do a focus stack but it probably isn't going to be what you think it should be. When tilt is used you actually rotate the plane of focus so that it typically runs from near -> far at an angle and it extends out as a focus edge. Changing your focus on the lens isn't simply going to move the focus point backwards & forwards as you might expect from non-tilted operation and so the effect is not going to be simply to give you a stack of images to combine for greater DoF.

You'll save yourself a lot of grief if you do either focus stacks OR lens tilts/swings.
It would be possible to move the subject at right angles to the plane of sharpest focus.
 

Dustbak

Member
!
I have discussed this with David Grover of Hasselblad, and he says that it is not possible, as the (current) lenses do not send accurate focus distance numbers back to the camera - but it should be easy to automate the above manual remote stacking system, just by counting the number of manual focusing steps.
I know about that but the system does not need to know the accurate focus distance numbers. It could be fed with a starting point and be told how many focus steps it needs to go forward and/or backwards. Focussing can already be done tethered in variously sized steps I see no reason why this could not be turned into an automated process.

With a little bit more effort it should be possible in untethered too in some form...

Anyway, I still think it is no biggie, focus stacking is so easy manually in most cases that it is hardly something to fret about.
 

dick

New member
... focus stacking is so easy manually in most cases that it is hardly something to fret about.
If it makes the difference between needing to carry a 10Kg tripod instead of a 2kg tripod... that is significant... but if you also have to carry a laptop there is little or no back-pack weight advantage
 

trinetr

New member
summarized as:
AF vs MF
Focusing Rail is for Macros
Tech Camera
I have been a bit wary of touching the lens once I have made a composition, given the way my Nikon already slaps its tongue after and before every shot, even in LiveView mode. However, the ability to micro-move the AF spot in LV mode using a remote has encouraged me to stay with this way of focus stacking (using AF, I mean), at least so far. I will try by manually focusing at different distances, now!

It was pretty dumb of me to even mention focusing rails, particularly when I knew very well that (1) it is for macros; and more importantly (2) the scene itself changes every time the camera rolls (*cough*) down on the rail, even with the micro-movements with something like stackshot.

I have been tempted to try view camera systems myself. Bought a 24mm PC-E to boot with, but have missed it so badly after I sold it off, that too by losing some good money! But maybe it is a good thing because I have developed a soft corner for something like the Horseman LD { HORSEMAN LD FOR DSLRs } or VCC Pro { HORSEMAN VCC PRO } which bring tech camera movements to the DSLR range. More so, because they have adapters to use higher end DBs at a later stage. But are there solutions like this where I need not be tied-in to one type/make of lenses, but using the more generic standard lens board (from any manufacturer) ?

You can also move the focus in small, medium or large steps via the software. Check out the relevant pages in the Phocus software manual (pages 34-35).
Interesting! Is this also possible from Phocus Mobile/iPad ?

there is an MF camera that has an automatic focus bracketing function that works pretty well with AF lenses: Hy6/ AFi.
Thanx for the note about the Hy6/AFi capabilities - I had not known much about this system at all!

Actually, with the right tech camera system focus-stacking for landscapes is MUCH easier with a D3s with a typical Nikon lens.
{Your +1 for IQ series}
Can you suggest/point me to some good tech camera systems that can be used with a nikon lens ? I could find the Horseman LD and the Arca M-Line II that can be used with SLRs, but with nikon lenses ?

PS: Thanx to all others also for your notes, too !
 

Douglas Fairbank

New member
I just tried this simple workflow using Hasselblad and Phocus and Photoshop. Frame the subject, find the focus mid point. Using the focus step buttons move a number of steps off the focus point (small, medium or large steps can be chosen, depends on your aperture etc). Now take the first picture, move one step back, then the second picture, then the next step back, keep taking images and moving one step each time until you have gone through the focus point by a appropriate number of steps. Phocus makes the next part easy, select all the images and export them all as 'Layers PSD' into Photoshop(CS4 or later), all you need to do then is apply the 'Auto Blend Layers' (and Auto Align for best results). Job done! :thumbs:
 
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