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Thread: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Well you know I am a friend of drastic titles, but in this case I was holding back, you need to see this. Of course this is NOT a solution for todays portrait studios, simply because of the price point.

    Watch it and get your own opinion:

    Will Video Cameras Kill Still Photography? Red Epic Vs Hasselblad | Fstoppers

    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Sounds like they need a shooting mode where it captures continuously, but you have a shutter button to mark. Then in post you default to the frame at each mark, with the option of moving forward or backward on the timeline to tweak. The marks could show up as a grid of stills, just like in C1 etc, it's just when you edit the image you get a timeline panel as well.
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I can't see myself going through 10 hours of footage for 500 images.

    Think of the processes involved. I can select my edits in under an hour. Edit them in a 8-12 hours.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    THAT´s a splendid idea Jan ! Yup this would definitely work !

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    Sounds like they need a shooting mode where it captures continuously, but you have a shutter button to mark. Then in post you default to the frame at each mark, with the option of moving forward or backward on the timeline to tweak. The marks could show up as a grid of stills, just like in C1 etc, it's just when you edit the image you get a timeline panel as well.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Really? Any camera shot under flat controlled lighting would produce a nice 8x10 print. In what way is this impressive? The only thing this points to is art directors and editor are going to pay high-school students minimum wage to point a video camera at a model and then they can chose the frame they want.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    It's more than the end of photography; I think it's the end of the world.

    I'm selling everything right away. Thank you Stefan for the warning. You're like the canary in the mine.
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Really? Any camera shot under flat controlled lighting would produce a nice 8x10 print. In what way is this impressive? The only thing this points to is art directors and editor are going to pay high-school students minimum wage to point a video camera at a model and then they can chose the frame they want.
    Yep. Looked to me like "I can't tell the difference between a (lower resolution camera) and (higher resolution camera) at 8x10 size under very controlled lighting conditions." I guess that's cool, but would a Canon G10 have fared much worse? Are there any current digital cameras that wouldn't do as well in the same test?

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    Sounds like they need a shooting mode where it captures continuously, but you have a shutter button to mark. Then in post you default to the frame at each mark, with the option of moving forward or backward on the timeline to tweak. The marks could show up as a grid of stills, just like in C1 etc, it's just when you edit the image you get a timeline panel as well.
    See also my prediction of just that in 2008:
    Doug Peterson, Wedding Photography

    Not that I was remotely the first.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    "The Red Epic can film 120 frames per second at the full 5K resolution"

    have you ever heard of superresolution ? resolution enhancement by combining multiple shots ? Mmmh- I´m sure you can do this with about any digital camera, but today - with this amount of data..... ?

    Of course you would not be interested to have any fashion shot be a safe bet, because the model does not blink with the eye or if it does just use 3-4 frames before or after that......?

    I know..... When cars where invented people asked, why do we need cars we have horsecarriages.........

    regards
    Stefan


    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Zeanah View Post
    Yep. Looked to me like "I can't tell the difference between a (lower resolution camera) and (higher resolution camera) at 8x10 size under very controlled lighting conditions." I guess that's cool, but would a Canon G10 have fared much worse? Are there any current digital cameras that wouldn't do as well in the same test?
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Movie and stills are totally different in nature.
    Just because a technical medium can do both at the same time doesnt mean they belong together.

    To envision a good and powerful still one has to concentrate in a different way than shooting a film. For sure you can have lucky grabs out of a film sequence, but the problem is that it was not "envisioned" before and therefore it will lack the click. (literally)
    Going the easy way may be convenient, but it is not convincing.
    It is all about consciousness.
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    The images are not the same quality. Just look at the models hair.
    Nice crisp fine detail for the Hasselblad. Muddy for the Red.

    The red is so darn fiddly to work with. Recently worked on a production with a red camera. Far from stable to say the least.
    The red one needs over one minute to boot.......

    Red sensor is 27.65x14.58mm..... don't expect the same sort of depth you get wide open with either a FF 35mm or MFD.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Of course it will be technically possible, that's only a question of time. In 5-6 years, I'm sure there will be a m4/3 device costing around $1,000 capable of doing exactly this, and there will probably be software available helping the photographer choosing the "best" image. I will be very happy to use a camera like that for the occasions when I'm going to do photography and video. But not simultaneously.

    The difference between video and photography is much more that the number of frames per second, minute or hour. "The decisive moment" is a combination of timing, framing, DOF, exposure etc. Video follows a timeline with totally different constraints. Good video does not equal good photography. But having the option will be nice, and for PJ/news, this will probably become very common, to great satisfaction for the bean counters who can report more profit back to the shareholders after throwing out half their staff. I'm not sure the news photographers will be equally thrilled though.

    Another unfortunate side of this is that, although it shouldn't affect those camera manufacturers that concentrate on still photography only, like MF and Leica, it probably will. There will always be techno hungry people out there who will leave "traditional" hi-tech gear in the dust for a Red or whatever comes after it, making the market situation even more challenging for the traditionalists. But that's evolution, and there's no way of getting around it other than becoming more clever, more flexible... now we're approaching Darwin.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I think you all put too much significance on the Hasselblad. I'm sure that's just the camera he had on hand because it's what he normally shoots with. Right now I see this stuff as being where digital still photography was in the late 90s. I.e., not competitive really, but with excellent new functionality. The blad of course is a better still camera in every regard. Except it doesn't allow adjusting poses and expressions with 1/120s granularity in post. That's pretty much it, and if you need the latter it may well trump the blad's (or any other still camera's) all other advantages. Without the really poor (= unmarketable) image quality associated with regular HD video.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I feel GetDPI more and more like "Nikon Rumors" or something like that everyday.
    Some people with a lot of comments, I've rarely seen their works at GetDPI.
    Let's go out and take photographs or at least talk about the art of photography!
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    I feel GetDPI more and more like "Nikon Rumors" or something like that everyday.
    Some people with a lot of comments, I've rarely seen their works at GetDPI.
    Let's go out and take photographs or at least talk about the art of photography!
    Not possible. I have neither a dog nor a cat. There's not even a backyard here, so what on earth should I take photos of? Did I mention that the weather is cloudy, and that none of my ancient cameras deliver clean results above ISO 102,400? You should have seen the 2 hour exposure I did of the inside of my lens cap the other day; noise, banding, diffraction, CA, back focus, front focus, vignetting, mushy corners and lots of other defects that haven't even been invented yet. Nope, back to dpr. There, at least, there's a general consensus that all cameras are crap, but that we need them anyway, so that we have something to fondle.

    Take photos, huh
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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    It's more than the end of photography; I think it's the end of the world.

    I'm selling everything right away. Thank you Stefan for the warning. You're like the canary in the mine.
    Well damn, Stephen. Is that the real reason you sold the rangefinder to me? You know if the world doesn't end, I'm not giving it back.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Well somehow the posting worked already. There are emotions on that and I am sure you know why ! I have to tell you that in a former life I was also working as a set photographer for film and television. Back then the image quality of the filmframes was too bad to use them for the TV program magazines not to speak of Film theaters foyers.
    In the late 80ies the first digitizers were appearing, so video frames could be chosen (of course this was only NTSC or Pal) that were usable for program magazines with low resolutions first, but when there were no other pictures this was the first method to get some illustrations when there was the need to have some.
    take a look at the Set Photographers today. They have mostly disappeared, only on larger productions the images are taken dedicated, even on Holiwood productions many preview sites use the press material which is from "Screenshots" of the film.
    This is a huge cost advantage and also does speed up production as there need to be breaks for dedicated photoshootings, as well you were one of the most hated guys on the set as on non repeatable scenes you needed to get that shot (of the burning house or the car crash....whatever) and the sound people heard your clicking of the camera.

    Why do I tell this story ? There are a lot of fashion Foto shootings already happening with video in //. So don´t you think it may be pretty obvious to think of a similar devellopment happening there ? Doing one run- use both, especially when you produce for online media( where excuse me- nobody will be able to tell the difference already today).

    Think about it. This is not nice but this is how things devellop.
    Jorgen is of course right, there is a different approach with photography, but the customer rules and money rules. Sooner or later the customers will force this as a next step and you either learn to swim by that rythm or perish.

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan Brittenson View Post
    Sounds like they need a shooting mode where it captures continuously, but you have a shutter button to mark. Then in post you default to the frame at each mark, with the option of moving forward or backward on the timeline to tweak. The marks could show up as a grid of stills, just like in C1 etc, it's just when you edit the image you get a timeline panel as well.
    Don't get me wrong, I just don't see the point of doing so. Wouldn't it be much easier to just be good at using a still camera? Plus you don't have to go through so many files...

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    ............ Sooner or later the customers will force this as a next step and you either learn to swim by that rythm or perish.
    That is a bit too much. Such "cutting-edge-demanding-obedience" is in no way going to grant you anything, except spending a lot of money.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by T.Karma View Post
    That is a bit too much. Such "cutting-edge-demanding-obedience" is in no way going to grant you anything, except spending a lot of money.
    That was what some of us said about digital photography too, less than ten years ago...

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    So Stefan, did I just choose to perish? In a couple of month I'm beginning my education at the locals finest school of photography which will most likely rule the next three years of my life in its entity. However, I'm very certain never to touch a video camera for work. I can't tell you how long I already own my 5D MKII and despite being a rather curious human being I have not yet tried the video mode and am not planning to do so.

    Of course it's everyones own decision on which tool to use but in my very humble opinion video is just inferior both in IQ aswell as in handling and just not suited for a still cameras job. At least not in the way your video suggests.

    I think in this case the complexity lies in directing the model to the pose the photographer imagined. It is totally insignificiant which medium is used to capture that pose and I think it is definetely not easier to use especially focus a huge video camera.
    If you're capable of anticipating the models moves you know when to push the button right?

    I think this video stuff might be interesting because it's new and video reached a point where it hasn't been before but after the heat dies down people will reconsider their tools. Who wants to go through thousands of files? It's time consuming and expensive...

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    That was what some of us said about digital photography too, less than ten years ago...
    .... and because some overeager adopters were listening to the sirencalls with such devotedness it went so fast in transition. The whole recycle speed of new technologies is so fast, because people get tempted to make a quick coin (they are led to believe it). Then the others are forced to follow.

    But nobody is forced to step in first. Even if Stefan predicts your existinction ....

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Max -

    well it is hard to tell you this,but unless you will work as an artist (and be able to make a living from it) or one of the top creative professionals pure Photography in the definition of the 19th century will not be able to serve as an income for a number of photographers as of today. We already had a significant shrinking market for "usage photography" and the trend is clear and ongoing. The paradigm change in volume media is driven by the kind of used media, mostly online and TV with a shrinking print market. It´s simply evolution. This all had happened in the 19th and 20th ´century when Photography replaced painting, (see here:
    Essay: The Impact of Photography on Painting - Fine Art Blog - ArtRev.com - Your Ultimate Fine Art Source. )
    but now the evolution will eat large parts of the Photo business, as it has happened with painting. This did not mean painters disappeared, but the focus changed. Nearly all of the usage painters that happened to make a living for2-3000 years got jobless, just think about cinema posters, advertising stuff for shops, fonts painters and so on.
    As the Print media will shrink further the classic models will disappear. In germany recently Neckermann- the Prototype of printed catalogue mail order house has stopped doing a catalogue- instead they switched completely to an online shop model.
    So Pro photographers can still work for this, but differently, faster, cheaper, lower res, database driven, connected with the catalogue numbers as IPTC or prestructuring for content management systems and so on.
    The classic Craft will stay, but for the noncommerical and art photography and it must bequestioned how many will be able to make a living from this the way they did this 10-20 years ago.

    If you love photography do it- I can only encourage you, but know it will be taking 100% of your will and capability and talent PLUS some luck also.

    These are the facts and I would not feel well telling young people some chichi about how nice and cosy this job is.

    Blowup was in the 60ies- now is now and we need to be realistic.

    regards
    Stefan
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Oh don't worry about me, I'm going to make it. I don't see video replace stillife-, food-, architecture or any other kind of photography that requires view camera movements any time soon. BTW keep in mind that online shops need images aswell. Advertising is still and always will be demanded.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Photography isn't going away, not this week anyway. It's just taking different shapes. One of the challenges is to figure out what technologies will develop into profitable tools at what won't. And the market changes. While the usage painters worked for a tiny market, photography has become a giant one. There are zillions of websites out there that need new photos, videos and illustrations every second of the day. 20 years ago, they didn't even exist.
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Well you know I am a friend of drastic titles, but in this case I was holding back, you need to see this. Of course this is NOT a solution for todays portrait studios, simply because of the price point.

    Watch it and get your own opinion:

    Will Video Cameras Kill Still Photography? Red Epic Vs Hasselblad | Fstoppers

    regards
    Stefan
    Even if it wasnt much more expensive, and if there were as nice viewfinders for the Red, and if the handling was the same, wouldnt this be a waste of storage and more important a waste of energy? Using constant light instead of flash (and what does this mean for the eyes of the models and the temperature in the studio?) to shoot a piece of film just to sort out one image afterwards.
    And arent the requitements regarding the user interface much different for a film camera vs a photo camera?
    By the way I recently decided to carry a smallcamcorder and a still camera, because the camcorder handling is way better IMO than using a photo-camera with video mode. And I would assume the same is true in the other direction.
    I really dont see how this has anything to do with the first motordriven car which was a real innovation something totally new.
    What we see here is film camera becoming better so you can eventually use it for some still shots as well.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I wouldn't mind this kind of technology for stitching however you will need to have serious control over your lighting...
    I am not a painter, nor an artist. Therefore I can see straight, and that may be my undoing. - Alfred Stieglitz

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Think about it. This is not nice but this is how things devellop.
    Jorgen is of course right, there is a different approach with photography, but the customer rules and money rules. Sooner or later the customers will force this as a next step and you either learn to swim by that rythm or perish.

    regards
    Stefan
    Ah, yes. The mad rush to the bottom where skill and vision can be replaced by a machine and the untalented. It might be the future, but one I am not interested it.
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    OMG the red can print at 8x10!

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Not in my lifetime. Hopefully. Thankfully.
    Stephen Penland
    www.stephenpenland.com

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Well I know there are the hardcore disbelievers, but here is another piece of the puzzle take a look a the printdivision numbers:
    HP to Cut 27,000 Jobs - the classic models with PC´s and printers do not work anymore. "The company is also in the process of restructuring its printing business, sales of which declined by 10% over last year." Well as to be expected, and an indication that people use Monitors instead of paper.

    HP to cut 27,000 jobs - May. 23, 2012


    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I better sell my HP printer. Does this mean no more printing?

    Tell us more, Stefan.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Well I know there are the hardcore disbelievers, but here is another piece of the puzzle take a look a the printdivision numbers:
    [B]HP to Cut 27,000 Jobs - the classic models with PC´s and printers do not work anymore. "The company is also in the process of restructuring its printing business, sales of which declined by 10% over last year." Well as to be expected, and an indication that people use Monitors instead of paper.


    Regards
    Stefan
    I try to stay out of these silly debates, but this is too clueless to pass.

    I used to work for HP. Your interpretation of what is going on is completely wrong.

    1. The printing market is moving to a services model. HP didn't realize this and lost market share to Xerox and others.
    2. HP has cut R&D 50% (based on revenue) during the last 10 years. This has allowed competitors to gain marketshare, as the product portfolio is no longer competitive.
    3. HP has more than 300000 employees. The majority of these are in services, not printers.
    4. Do you think people in Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal are looking to buy new printers?

    Only a "hardcore believer" would use HPs demise as proof the still photography market is dying.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Well I know there are the hardcore disbelievers, but here is another piece of the puzzle take a look a the printdivision numbers:
    HP to Cut 27,000 Jobs - the classic models with PC´s and printers do not work anymore. "The company is also in the process of restructuring its printing business, sales of which declined by 10% over last year." Well as to be expected, and an indication that people use Monitors instead of paper.

    HP to cut 27,000 jobs - May. 23, 2012


    Regards
    Stefan
    It is just like people do not use sail boats any longer. There are no world-class sailing ships that are used in regattas. And the best place to eat is MacDonalds because the serve the most food the fastest.

    Sorry, your example really has nothing to do with us. The values of mass production and consumerism are not the end all and be all.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Stephen

    "I better sell my HP printer. Does this mean no more printing?"

    probably, if you don´t have another one, it could become difficult ..........

    HVK

    the good thing is that company specialists always have a nice explanation about why it didn´t work, unfortunately mostly _after_ it happened. It would be refreshing if these explanations would fit in advance and would help preventing these substantial layoffs.

    And the people in Greece , Spain, Portugal and Italy have enough of these nice stories, they just want jobs. Explain us why there are no new jobs, not why there are nearly 10 % of HP´s workforce have to go.

    Were you working at Kodak next ? They also had nice explanations......
    And if you want numbers, buy a GFK study or maybe this one:

    Photography in the US Market Research | IBISWorld

    here is a bit more detail of this study

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/3/prweb9294028.htm

    regards
    Stefan
    Last edited by Stefan Steib; 24th May 2012 at 12:18.
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    the good thing is that company specialists always have a nice explanation about why it didn´t work, unfortunately mostly _after_ it happened. It would be refreshing if these explanations would fit in advance and would help preventing these substantial layoffs.
    I absolutely agree. One of the problems in large companies is that there are lots of unsubstantiated opinion and people who cannot absorb information that does not fit their agenda.

    In other words, the corporate world is very similar to internet forums.

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    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    "In other words, the corporate world is very similar to internet forums."

    touche

    problem is that I never said that there is no more photography. I asked- is this "the end of Photography ?" and asked for peoples opinions.

    So much for exact reading and listening. Yes communication is difficult. But you are right - I am not completely innocent in expecting some people would do exactly that and freak out and write "interesting" replies.


    regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Senior Member malmac's Avatar
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Stefan, thanks for poking a stick through the bars of my cage and keeping me awake to possibilities.

    Also I respect that there are many opinions and I for one enjoy the humour that some folk are able to bring to this subject area we all share.

    bring it on....

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I'd stick to shooting. Yellw tabloids are not my thing. But i am sure there is thread cooking on how shooting yeti with RED will be better than shooting it with current MFd offerings, and it is end of the world how we know it.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    "Is this the end of photography?"

    No. Motion pictures is photography.

    Will still photography be dead in future?

    No. Picking selects from 24 fps is still picking single frames ... Except, it's twice as many frames to wade through as from a 12fps Sony A77 that's about the size of the RED Epic's lens, or a high fps Canon, etc. ... and they are presented as stills, not live streaming wastes-of-time where one has to stop, freeze frame the exact image, then go in to inspect if the DOF is deep enough or if certain details are clear. We can shoot 8, 10, 12 fps now, but few do.

    What is the need for still photography?

    Well, the very premise presented is picking "stills" from motion pictures. If stills aren't needed at all, then the premise is rubbish.

    Why are stills needed?

    No one wants to shoot the huge array of product shots all around us, everywhere we look, in every media, by blasting off 28 fps or 12 fps or any multiple amount of frames ... when only one is needed.

    Same for the huge portrait industry ... if the technique was viable and important, then portrait photographers could do it now with any of the video enabled DSLRs. However, consider this: so we video 100 to 200 frames per set-up with a $80,000 RED rig, then spend endless hours pulling select stills to then retouch and print, so we can collect the average $300 to $1,500 fee? This is technology as a slave driving arrogant master ... hello bankruptcy.

    Bet the billion dollar wedding stills industry just can't wait to wade through 70,000 frames to make sure they got that decisive moment when dad wiped a tear from his daughters eye. There is derogatory term for this ... the mark of a talentless, insensitive hack ... "machine gunning" the wedding ... in effect this proposes we give the hack a M134 Gatling gun to replace the slow machine gun they now use. Hacks celebrate the application of technology like this.

    Etc., etc., etc.

    BTW, ever see the batteries or generators required to drive BIG continuous lighting on location?

    -Marc
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    The Red image is no where near as clean and crisp as the Hasselblad image.

    Look at the fine hair near the temple and the detail of the eyebrows and eyelashes.

    Detail is significantly better with the Hasselblad than with the red. Also more color artifacts in the hair with the Red.

    Then there is the issue of ergonomics and ease of use. The Red is a jigsaw puzzle of components. Red cameras are not stable.

    I recently worked on a production with a Red camera. Damn pain in the ***.

    Arri Alexa is a serious stable and predictable camera.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Fred

    actually I don´t think Red is really the device we should speak about as a competition for the photo market here. I know the thread started with this.
    But to you and all the others: What about the GoPro Hero HD2 ?
    (for those who don´t know it www.gopro.com )
    THIS is the real threat that I don´t hear a substantial answer by the photo industry ! Give it maybe 2 years maybe 4 and they will do 4k. You know it´s coming, it does not matter if this is double triple or 10 times the actual price.

    It´s about the possible content, Video, Photo, Timelapse a whole system with underwater, fittings to varioust uses and it´s cheap and small.

    I have already seen content by GoPro´s used here in german television, even marked as this as cut in between shots with highend stuff, showing the go pros hanging off surfboards, cars and other places. Some time ago you would have been thrown out of the station if even mentioning using stuff like this !

    And yes - this is the end of Photography as we do it (for these purposes!). It´s a hybrid and none of the users care the tiniest little bit about which mode they are in as long as they get the content they want.

    It´s the content...........nothing else that counts !

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    What about the GoPro Hero HD2 ?
    (for those who don´t know it www.gopro.com )
    Pretty impressive stuff, and yes, that's probably one of the directions imaging will move towards.

    Note to self: Buy one!

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Have one for my kid . Just got him one for dirt bike riding for his graduation to high school. But seriously this is for consumers and notin the advertising world some of us live in. This is no threat and who says a Pro can't get a hundred of these and do something creative. Good for them I could care less about the hardware it's how we use is it what counts. These things are a means to a end as a shooter whatever works is really our only concern. These are concerns for OEMs to deal with keep up or get buried alive. This is business like any other field. Be competitive put out a good product and back it up. Epic is a specialized tool just like MF there will always be a need for these tools to some degree at least.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Well, they are used in advertising. Red Bull is using it a lot (several new videos every week), and they sell a product that wouldn't exist without proper advertising. But at this stage of development, it's probably taking more business from the likes of Nikon D4. Not because it can replace such a camera, but because the footage and images can replace much of the footage and images that would have been taken with a D4. And when it comes to Red Bull, their action photos and footage are something that comes instead of more static images shot with a Hasselblad or a Mamiya.

    The most important competitors aren't necessarily those who shoot the same with different equipment, but those who shoot something different, using another technology.

    Play the sample video on their front page in HD, full screen. It's rather convincing coming from a $300 camera. Apart from the rolling shutter, it would have been rather convincing from a $3,000 or a $30,000 camera as well, not for photographers, but for those that it's aimed at; hip young people with a need for adrenalin kicks.

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    >What about the GoPro Hero HD2 ?

    And the iPhone.
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    right - the iPhone and all the smartphones with better and better cameras.

    I wait for the Nokia N808 to appear, I´m really, really curious about how this will proof in reality and as production models. I didn´see any samples of videos from the preproduction stuff, if the zoom with the frames placed with your finger does work in the video mode, this could be really interesting.

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    I'll be picking up an N808 within a fortnight. Will be happy to post samples

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    Re: OMG -HassyH3D22 versus RedEpic - the end of Photography ?

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    I'll be picking up an N808 within a fortnight. Will be happy to post samples
    You must obviously mean the N8008


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