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D800/D800E/IQ180 comparison

Shashin

Well-known member
I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7. Lots of love and many accolades. Many of those that were lovin' that camera no longer have it any more. The D800 is a great camera. Lets see what happens next year...
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
You mean like a Pentax 645D?
Well yes, good point, but only if you could stick a Phase One back on it. :poke:

The Pentax price point is appropriate for what it is too :thumbs: which is NOT something I would say about the DF if you bought it at retail vs a back bundle.

I bought a D800 too to use for long exposure work etc but I've kept my DF system (which I merely tolerate) because of the glass and IQ use.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Echoing Marc's points, I'd also wager that had Phase One got a DSLR body that only even matched, let alone surpassed the abilities of ANY of the current crop of full frame 35mm DSLRs then perhaps the eagerness to change to something like the D800 would be a lot less. That's where I think that Hasselblad and Phase One in particular really need to get their act together to keep the appeal of their whole systems vs the 'good enough' perceived advantages of the D800 and whatever follows shortly no doubt from everyone else next year.
I would have thought 3 times if the DF was better, no question. Its a nice system and the glass is extremely good but it simply could not do everything easily for me but we need to remember I am a generalist and with that turf I need as much versatility as I can get from extreme wide to very long if i don't own it I can rent a 600mm F4 for incoming jets that I shoot on occasion for a client or a 16 mm fisheye. I always had a 35mm system in the background but this tips the scales and it reduces 3 complete systems into 2 which now I can build this system better with the savings from 3 and this actually helps me be more versatile in a lot of ways. Sure i would love to have all three but it also is not making sense for me at least. I also sold all my studio strobes and kept the Profoto Acute 600R battery and bought 2 Nikon SB 910 and one SB 700 with a slew of pocket wizards and now its a small bag for location gigs and when i need more i rent. Its a 20 minute drive and i can rent all the Profotos and Nikon glass even the BIG stuff I could ever hope for. So for me this is all about getting down to manageable systems and lowering my costs but keeping the gear versatility in place for anything I run into. I get a big gig than I do what almost every Pro in NY and LA do rent it and bill back what I can or raise my rate. LOL

Hassy does not escape this either BTW, its no better IMHO. They both need to up the ante on there bodies. The S2 was a no start for me when it was released and still is. Maybe a S3 will be the one but not unless they rethink there cost structure, Im not investing 50k in a iPhone world. Sorry thats a commerce reality. For the hobbyists its a different world and I envy you folks. My hobbies are cheap. ROTFLMAO
 

johnnygoesdigital

New member
" it's about money, period".
Hmmm, of course it's about money...and form factor, weather sealing, utility, weight, batteries, etc. usefulness, and here's a really good one...reliability!
I owned 3 or 4 MFD cameras in the same period as one 35mm DSLR. Perhaps I'm eccentric for wanting my money's worth. The gap is smaller for photographers to compete now, based on equipment, and the creative individual is not separated by the high cost of so called, quality. Just because the gear is high priced doesn't mean the person knows how to exploit it. One could buy 2 D800's and not feel the shame of planned obsolescence when you trade them up.
Yes, i'll take the D800, and with what's left, I could go fully outfit my studio, or buy every lens available from Nikon or Zeiss. If I want MFD, a P25+ with my H1 is perfect, and quite a bargain now too. These comparisons have completely changed many photographers attitudes towards the MFD industry. All photographers start with a budget - Given a choice with a 35mmDSLR that has been as good or better than MFD at a fraction of price...of course it's about money...duh!
 
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ustein

Contributing Editor
>I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7.

I have it too, but the AF glass sucks. Has still great potential with the right glass.

NEX-7 with Zeiss 85mm Leica mount:

 
>I remember the enthusiasm for the Nex 7. I have it too, but the AF glass sucks. Has still great potential with the right glass.
Try the AF Zeiss 24/1.8. I tried and the sold the Nex because the handling of the cameras were not for me. But that lens is a stunner it has both resolution to match the sensor and a look to make a Leica owner go weak at the knees. Sony's control over AF when video is the gem in their crown (as it should be given their experience). It can hold focus on a subject without hunting and quickly corrects in low DoF scenarios. I know the distortion here is not great to look at (it's my son and a video for granny back in the UK).

Sorry have to navigate to Flickr for the vid

Because of the Nex7, during the coming few days I'm going to get hold of an A77 and the full frame equivalent to see how it all hangs together. In anticipation of a FF Sony. I like your comment as in a few months, if Sony kick out something special in FF, many people will be singing a different tune. Lets face it there's nothing groundbreaking about the D800 except more MP, and we all know who makes their sensor.

btw where are the Nex7/A77 vs D800 comparisons? The Nex7 was remarkable in the studio, if only it didn't have such a stupid button layout. It has all the same problems as Nikon as well, too much red saturation, requires quite a bit of messing with colour in post. Seems that Sony have updated their entire lens range in anticipation of a kick arse FF offering.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Not at all. Not for me at least, and I suspect not for plenty of other folk.

For me it's about focus. I have a have a cabinet groaningly full of stuff. IQ180, Phase DF, glass, Cambo, glass, M9, glass, 5DII, glass, GH2, glass, Nex7, glass, Fuji X100, Ricoh, somewhere in another home an entire Pentax DSLR system, blah blah blah.

The IQ gear is so I can get the best quality for things that really matter. The M9 is so I can get ballpark similar but with less pixels and more portability. The 5DII is for longer lenses and action. The GH2 and Nex are part of the search for great image quality in a travel or casual walkaround kit. The Fuji is for silent and very unobtrusive but still with good IQ. And the truth is, I know how to use all of it and none of it.

That much gear is simply too much stuff to be master of. How each lens works on each body at each aperture and focal length. What the files are like in PP and how best to shoot accordingly. You get the picture. And this is not even going near the stuff I've owned and sold, such as the S2.

What the D800 means is, sell it all apart from the Nex and the Fuji. Then really concentrate on getting the finest glass for the Nikon and learning every last detail of the camera and its glass.

So it's about purity of purpose. About having far less stuff that covers pretty much all the same bases, and learning that stuff in great depth.

It's not about money. It's about results. I have tested the D800 in all the territory, indoors and out, flash and natural, tilt and shift, long and short, that I've used the Canon and Phase gear for. It covers all the bases, with, to all practical intents the same (sometimes nearly as good, often much better) results.

It is a no brainer, for me, totally irrespective of cost.
All right already ... I retract the "money" statement since it keeps being taken totally out of context to the original post answering a specific point of view.

As to "purity of purpose" ... sounds like you found your Swiss Army knife for life ... I guess we'll never see a F/S ad for your D800. :ROTFL:

Personally, Nikon stuff was boring to me. Only having a Nikon would be excruciatingly boring. The cameras were boring, and the lenses were especially boring. About as inspirational as a brick and a stick. Gotta like what's in my hand, simple as that.

BTW, I don't agree with you at all regarding the mastery of more than one system, unless you buy and sell into different stuff every five minutes. I've been using the same basic H camera for almost seven years (different models, same basic camera/lenses), a M camera for 40 years, and my Sony now for longer than any other DSLR with no intention of moving elsewhere since I finally found a fit with a camera/sensor that doesn't require an IT degree to figure out how to PP the files, and lenses with character I prefer. The S2 is the only new boy on the block, and it's so easy to use it's already second nature.

So ... as usual, to each their own ... and I do not discount the notion of simplification if your applications allow it. I may well do the same in future as I wind down my shooting and ramp up retirement ... which is why I bought the S2 ... it is my retirement camera :)


-Marc
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Guy, at first I was not real fond of the EVF on the Nex-7, but now after using it a while, I really love it. I love the ability to zoom up to 11.7x from the EVF. I would love to see it on a DSLR like the D800 or follow on Canon. What is strange is how the 11.7x is easy to use for me with the Sony and I get very good results, but when I use Nikon's implementation I find myself not liking the zoom. Especially when using a moderate telephoto. Wide angle is easier. I would love to see focus peaking on the Nikon in the future, but probably not going to happen. My eyes just don't work well with optical anymore. I just need to get a better feel for the live view on the D800.

Uwe, I totally agree on your statement on the Nex7 and AF lenses. The camera has really amazing potential. I have gotten great results by using using some of the Sony Alpha glass on the Nex7 with the Alpha to E adapter. The one lens that really is a winner is the Sony 16-80. You can get some great results with this combination. The E lenses mostly don't begin to really get the best from the sensor's resolution, exception being the 50mm 1.8. One of these day's I am going to try a metabones adapter with what's left of my Canon glass to see how they work on the Sony. The Sony 18-200 can also produce some really great results but I am not as consistent with it as the 16-80.

Paul
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
All right already ... I retract the "money" statement since it keeps being taken totally out of context to the original post answering a specific point of view.

As to "purity of purpose" ... sounds like you found your Swiss Army knife for life ... I guess we'll never see a F/S ad for your D800. :ROTFL:

Personally, Nikon stuff was boring to me. Only having a Nikon would be excruciatingly boring. The cameras were boring, and the lenses were especially boring.M
About as inspirational as a brick and a stick. Gotta like what's in my hand, simple as that.

BTW, I don't agree with you at all regarding the mastery of more than one system, unless you buy and sell into different stuff every five minutes. I've been using the same basic H camera for almost seven years (different models, same basic camera/lenses), a M camera for 40 years, and my Sony now for longer than any other DSLR with no intention of moving elsewhere since I finally found a fit with a camera/sensor that doesn't require an IT degree to figure out how to PP the files, and lenses with character I prefer. The S2 is the only new boy on the block, and it's so easy to use it's already second nature.

So ... as usual, to each their own ... and I do not discount the notion of simplification if your applications allow it. I may well do the same in future as I wind down my shooting and ramp up retirement ... which is why I bought the S2 ... it is my retirement camera :)


-Marc

Marc,

Yet again you surmise the the worLd today in MF perfectly.

If you're already invested - enjoy and exploit the superiority of your MF gear.

If not, weigh up the qualitative advantages and see if they are worth the investments :D

I know where I stand - although I have a certain King Canute feeling right now here. :eek:
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Marc,
I know where I stand - although I have a certain King Canute feeling right now here. :eek:
Looking on the bright side, for those that want to be in MF it is getting cheaper - and the number of people who a) own it and b) have real depth of experience using it is shrinking. Which means that from a pro perspective, soon those people will be far harder to find when clients really need that stuff. So they will hopefully be able to charge more!

:D
 

GrahamWelland

Subscriber & Workshop Member
Looking on the bright side, for those that want to be in MF it id getting cheaper - and the number of people who a) own it and b) have real depth of experience using it is shrinking. Which means that from a pro perspective, soon those people will be far harder to find when clients really need that stuff. So they will hopefully be able to charge more!

:D
It is so nice to appreciate folks who understand us Brits ....
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Ah, Graham,

Your Danish roots are showing! And you are holding up pretty well while battling back the tides!

:ROTFL:
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
All right already ... I retract the "money" statement since it keeps being taken totally out of context to the original post answering a specific point of view.
Marc,

From my POV there is no need to retract the money comment, I was clarifying what I saw as a distinction that might make more sense. Am sorry it went as far South as it did.

So ... as usual, to each their own ... and I do not discount the notion of simplification if your applications allow it. I may well do the same in future as I wind down my shooting and ramp up retirement ...
This was more directly to my point -- we all have differing needs and desires and as such there is no single right and wrong for everybody. It's truly great to have all of these options AND the ability to explore them!

:thumbs:

Cheers,
 

gazwas

Active member
Looking at this from another angle.....

I keep reading reports that the D800 produces images as good a the Phase gear but what I don't understand is why people are selling all their DF's and Schneider glass to buy the D800 and Nikon glass for the same net results?

Like one example above, Guys's corporate portrait looks as good as it were taken with the DF and 110LS. Why not just shoot it of the DF/110LS that you already own(d) in the first place?
 

darr

Well-known member
Looking at this from another angle.....

I keep reading reports that the D800 produces images as good a the Phase gear but what I don't understand is why people are selling all their DF's and Schneider glass to buy the D800 and Nikon glass for the same net results?

Like one example above, Guys's corporate portrait looks as good as it were taken with the DF and 110LS. Why not just shoot it of the DF/110LS that you already own(d) in the first place?
Magic Bullet?
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Looking at this from another angle.....

I keep reading reports that the D800 produces images as good a the Phase gear but what I don't understand is why people are selling all their DF's and Schneider glass to buy the D800 and Nikon glass for the same net results?

Like one example above, Guys's corporate portrait looks as good as it were taken with the DF and 110LS. Why not just shoot it of the DF/110LS that you already own(d) in the first place?
Well said and true. Myself I have to have a 35mm anyway, just can't get around shooting event work without it. So having three systems tech cam, DF and a set of Sonys . I figured I would get reasonably close with the Nikon and it turns out its good enough to get by. So dumped the DF , dumped the Sony and combined both systems into the D800. I saved money and I don't have to support 3 systems. For me this is a business call and the change in the photo assignment climate. Now is the DF and it's lenses better , I think so and certainly I have real functions with the Tech cam has over both Nikon and DF. So that I want to keep and use the Nikons for other work. I need the DF I'll rent for jobs that require it. If was not for the economics I would have kept the DF in addition to the Nikon. Not sure what everyone else is doing but mine was a planned attack when the Nikon was announced. I figured it's good enough for commerce and need better grab the tech cam. Is it ideal and as good as a MF system. NO I'm cheating and not afraid to admit it. LOL

Net is if I did not HAVE to have a 35mm , I would not have done this move. I was running on 3 crippled (gear amount wise) which was not smart. The Nikon system is loaded for bear and the tech cam needs a 43TS otherwise I'm good to go.
 

gazwas

Active member
I was not pointing fingers at you Guy, it was just your example was easiest to quote.

I can't speak for the Nikon as I'm a Canon shooter but when I've had a few days shooting jobs on my 1D/5D, (that I like very much IQ and ergonomically) it's always nice to pick up the DF and Phase/Schneider glass. Its like the feeling you get coming home from a long trip!
 
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