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Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

Aryan Aqajani

New member
I am trying to make a decision to get one of those lenses for some upcoming jobs! I shoot with Mamiya 645 AFD III and DM22 back.

I know that Mamiya/Phase One 45mm D is generally a much better performer than 35mm AF both on center and corner sharpness and the ultimate way to do such type of photography is getting a tech camera like Alpa MAX however, my budget is not that much to go that way yet! That is why I am considering one of these lenses for such jobs! Since I don't have much experience in photographing interiors/real-estate/architecture, I would appreciate it if you guys can answer my questions;


1. I am not sure about the appropriate focal length for such kind of photography, specially shooting interiors! Which one is more versatile? 25mm or 32mm in 35mm format!?

2. How do they compare if shoot at f/8-f/11 for interiors?

3. Do you recommend Mamiya 35mm AF for architecture if shooting at f/8-f/11?


Thank you so much guys in advance :)
 
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Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just a suggestion you can get a Cambo WRS that will do rise/ fall 20mm down and 25 mm up. Shift 20mm in either direction plus you can use a TS lens if you want. All of the movements are on the back standard which is awesome for flat stitching. Cost with plate 3k. Than with your back you can easily use SK 24mm or a Sk35mm with nice movements for under 3k used. 6k and you have the ultimate interior tool with rise and fall which you can't do with a AFD III. This is one big reason I have a tech cam is this area alone. I use a Cambo AE model which functions the same as the WRS but a nicer packaging and a Roadie 28 which is more expensive but with a 22 mpx sensor like you have the 24 and 35 will serve you very well with a 9 micron sensor and it will be a far better solution than the MF DSLR style kit. Something to consider.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Finding a good 35 AF with nice corner performance is tough. I went through several of them but a SK 35 XL is a far better lens. I had no corner issues ever with mine and very sharp.
 

Aryan Aqajani

New member
Thanks Guy for the feedback! The problem is that my budget is very tight at this stage so going that route is not an option for me! Thank you very much for all the info, will keep that in mind for sure.

I am not too concerned about corner sharpness (maybe my clients would be :D), one thing I need to find out first is that which focal length is more versatile in shooting interiors, 25mm or 32mm in 35mm format!?

Thanks once again,
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
I am trying to make a decision to get one of those lenses for some upcoming jobs! I shoot with Mamiya 645 AFD III and DM22 back.

I know that Mamiya/Phase One 45mm D is generally a much better performer than 35mm AF both on center and corner sharpness and the ultimate way to do such type of photography is getting a tech camera like Alpa MAX however, my budget is not that much to go that way yet! That is why I am considering one of these lenses for such jobs! Since I don't have much expense in photographing interiors/real-estate/architecture, I would appreciate it if you guys can answer my questions;


1. I am not sure about the appropriate focal length for such kind of photography, specially shooting interiors! Which one is more versatile? 25mm or 32mm in 35mm format!?

2. How do they compare if shoot at f/8-f/11 for interiors?

3. Do you recommend Mamiya 35mm AF for architecture if shooting at f/8-f/11?


Thank you so much guys in advance :)
The 45mm is a stronger technical performer than the 35mm.

If you don't think you will absolutely need the wideness of the 35mm then I'd go with the 45mm.

For exteriors generally you can get away with a longer lens and simply back up (not always the case, but often). For interiors you more often get into a situation where your back is against a wall - literally. In such cases having your widest lens be a 45mm on a DM22 may be limiting. If you're comfortable doing a quick nodal point stitch this can get you out of hot water when you can not shoot from further back. I dislike nodal point stitching for a variety of reasons, but in this case it may be the best option you have (45mm with occasional use of nodal-point-stitching).

As you said a Tech Camera is really the way to go when you get down to the 23-40mm range, especially for architecture where having rise/fall and to a lesser extent tilt can be very useful. If you look at a pre-owned Cambo Wide DS and 35XL or 24XL you can get into a tech camera system for not that much more than the 45mm D costs. Full disclosure: we have such a system on our demo-items-ready-for-clearance shelf so I'm clearly biased.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
In 35mm format cameras Canon and Nikon do have 24mm PC lenses . Not sure I would use anything longer myself for interiors. You do run into walls sometimes with longer. Also these give a nice feeling of space. Plus you can do rise with these and hold your level. They will have distortion so need to work that in post as well. Right now most folks would say the Canon has the edge here. Many Nikon shooters are waiting for a replacement and also a 17mm TS that is yet to be announced but a patent was applied for.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
The 45mm is a stronger technical performer than the 35mm.

If you don't think you will absolutely need the wideness of the 35mm then I'd go with the 45mm.

For exteriors generally you can get away with a longer lens and simply back up (not always the case, but often). For interiors you more often get into a situation where your back is against a wall - literally. In such cases having your widest lens be a 45mm on a DM22 may be limiting. If you're comfortable doing a quick nodal point stitch this can get you out of hot water when you can not shoot from further back. I dislike nodal point stitching for a variety of reasons, but in this case it may be the best option you have (45mm with occasional use of nodal-point-stitching).

As you said a Tech Camera is really the way to go when you get down to the 23-40mm range, especially for architecture where having rise/fall and to a lesser extent tilt can be very useful. If you look at a pre-owned Cambo Wide DS and 35XL or 24XL you can get into a tech camera system for not that much more than the 45mm D costs. Full disclosure: we have such a system on our demo-items-ready-for-clearance shelf so I'm clearly biased.
I agree with Doug fully here try and take advantage of your back for one and do get some pricing on a WRS and 24 or 35 it really is the best option for this type of work. I tried nodal point panning on interiors and it just did not work out very well. Much better to flat stitch when dealing with walls and very straight lines and angles. Just easier on you.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Re: corner sharpness:

This is an area that gets a huge amount of attention on the internet and often shouldn't.

There are many styles and genres of photography for which edge sharpness is not important. Heck, I often slightly blur and vignette the edges of my more intimate wedding shots so as to help lead the eye directly to the face of the bride. Likewise fashion, portrait, and life-style shots rarely have essential detail in the corners of the frame. I'd still rather have a corner-to-corner sharp lens when shooting those since you can always blur or otherwise obscure detail if you captured it (but not the other way around). But if you shoot a beautiful headshot and the corners are slightly soft rarely will a viewer notice or care.

But architecture, interiors, art reproduction, landscape, and product photography are all areas where, generally speaking, corner sharpness can in fact be a big deal in a practical way.

If the client is a leather sofa maker and your shot shows the leather texture on a sofa in the center, but not a sofa at the edge or corner of the frame that can be an issue. If you fill the frame with the sofa and the center part of the sofa shows excellent leather texture but the sides do not - that can be an issue. If you shoot an exterior and the architect put a lot of work into selecting the material used on a door which falls in the corner of the frame, and the detail on that door is obscured by a poor lens - he may well notice.

The other big practical difference in wide-angle lens quality is the lack of chromatic aberration and other fringing. Art directors may not pixel peep at 100% in the extreme corner of the image, but they often do notice if there is a giant ugly purple line at the edge of every window or a big green line running up the edge of their beloved [insert interior design element here]. While mild and even moderate chromatic aberration can be handled shockingly well in Capture One it's still better if you don't have to "handle" it at all, and out-of-focus or severe chromatic aberration can't be handled (automatically) in any software.

Distortion is also a biggie, though for fixed lenses like the 35D and 45D the distortion can be mapped out extremely well with Capture One's automatic lens corrections. That's another area that non-photographers are likely to notice, even if they don't specifically identify and can't describe it. An interior image which shows (uncorrected or poorly corrected) severe distortion just does not look as "clean" or "right" as I've seen some non-photographer-viewers describe it.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Agree this is a area of photography where technical perfection is almost a must have. Little harder to cheat here with corner sharpness as most times this maybe a design feature or must have the detail in it. I have done this with a phase 28mm on a p25 and it did a nice job but for the price you pay for that lens the tech cam still is the better option as it really does come down to being level at any height and using rise and fall. Often times I will shoot from a low or high angle and as soon as you point up or down your lines are screwed . This is where rise and fall save the day your not restricted to shoot a certain way without pointing.
 
S

ssanacore

Guest
My interior work is mostly with the 17 and 24 canon shift lenses, as Guy has already mentioned. A 24mm seems to be the sweet spot for 35mm cameras. But since you already have a back, i would jump on a used tech cam with a 24mm equivalent lens, Doug can tell you what that would be for your camera back.
 

dougpeterson

Workshop Member
Our Visualizer tells me that the closest is a 35XL. It has a tad less width, but a tad more height. A 32HR would also be a good match for that (but is not likely to fit in your budget as-described).

Here is a screen grab from the visualizer.

 

GlenC

Member
My interior work is mostly with a 17mm on a 5dii. Here are a couple of shots to give you an idea of how much of the room this lens covers:
 

Bill Caulfeild-Browne

Well-known member
FWIW, I find cropping the Phase 28 mm on the IQ180 gives me better quality than using the 35, though it is a beastly heavy lens and there are filter issues if you need them.
Bill
 

Aryan Aqajani

New member
Thank you all for all the information, suggestions and recommendations, really appreciate it :)

First of all, I have no DSLR as I sold my 5D MK II and all L lenses almost a year ago and never regretted doing so! I am not going back to DSLR systems again so 35mm is no option for me! As I have no wide lens for my 645 system at the moment, I'd like to get one so that I can take it along my RZ67 for landscape (b&w long exposure) work! You may not agree with me in corner sharpness but honestly, don't care about that in landscape work but architecture! Many (maybe all) photographer try to capture everything in absolute shaprness corner to corner but I don't want to go that way! Maybe I am a fool :bugeyes:

The issue is there would be only a couple of architecture jobs on the horizon for the time being and have no idea if I can get some more jobs in the future! If I were sure that would happen, I'd definitely get a tech camera system! That is why I am trying to get a lens for 645 that can help me out with landscape and 1-2 architecture jobs!

Thank you all once again.
 

kdphotography

Well-known member
Based on your current system, I'd look for a good copy of the Phase 35mm D. With a slight crop on the sensor, you're well within the sweet spot on a pretty good lens. It's no tech cam equivalent, but it's not a dog either. I really like mine; never really liked the 28mm angle of view, and the 45mm was too close in focal length to my 55LS for me to even consider.

You can always opt for the tech cam later, and hope that Schneider addresses the need for a great DF wide-angle in the meantime. If Phase/Schneider offered a truly kick-*** wide angle for the DF, even at a premium price, it would still be less expensive than buying a Cambo WRS and all the requisite accessories required of any self-respecting receipient in Dante's Tech Cam Inferno....
 
There are of course some older Mamiya manual lenses you could use for a couple of hundred bucks and keep the $$ in the bank for a tech cam down the road. The performance is not too shabby at all.
 

Aryan Aqajani

New member
There are of course some older Mamiya manual lenses you could use for a couple of hundred bucks and keep the $$ in the bank for a tech cam down the road. The performance is not too shabby at all.
I thought about Mamiya 35mm N manual focus lens for a while! It seems that a E+ condition of that lens sells around $400 on keh.com while a used Mamiya 35mm AF non-D is around $900! As Doug Peterson has already mentioned, there is no big difference between Mamiya 35mm non-D and D version image quality and distortion characteristics! That is why I considered non-D AF version but it seems finding a good copy is the toughest job on earth!
 
This question prompted me to dig out an old 45 C, as I'm going to be without a tech cam for a while, I'm presently doing a focus stack of my living room using it on the DF. Obviously it's not as good as the tech cam, my personal question is, is it workable at all if I need it.

I set myself the challenge of objects from 1m to 5m. I found at f11 the image was pretty soft and could not get near or far even close to being called in-focus, so opted for f5.6 and stacking the images.

Initially it looks like the right hand side might have some alignment problem. Will let you know the results.
 
Conclusion is very good, usable but a lot fringing. Stacking using jpegs was a bit rough. Considering it's a C lens it's quite surprising. Definitely usable as an interim measure for me. 45 is a bit tight indoors though.
 
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