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Thread: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

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    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    I am trying to make a decision to get one of those lenses for some upcoming jobs! I shoot with Mamiya 645 AFD III and DM22 back.

    I know that Mamiya/Phase One 45mm D is generally a much better performer than 35mm AF both on center and corner sharpness and the ultimate way to do such type of photography is getting a tech camera like Alpa MAX however, my budget is not that much to go that way yet! That is why I am considering one of these lenses for such jobs! Since I don't have much experience in photographing interiors/real-estate/architecture, I would appreciate it if you guys can answer my questions;


    1. I am not sure about the appropriate focal length for such kind of photography, specially shooting interiors! Which one is more versatile? 25mm or 32mm in 35mm format!?

    2. How do they compare if shoot at f/8-f/11 for interiors?

    3. Do you recommend Mamiya 35mm AF for architecture if shooting at f/8-f/11?


    Thank you so much guys in advance
    Last edited by Aryan Aqajani; 30th May 2012 at 06:52. Reason: Spelling!
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Just a suggestion you can get a Cambo WRS that will do rise/ fall 20mm down and 25 mm up. Shift 20mm in either direction plus you can use a TS lens if you want. All of the movements are on the back standard which is awesome for flat stitching. Cost with plate 3k. Than with your back you can easily use SK 24mm or a Sk35mm with nice movements for under 3k used. 6k and you have the ultimate interior tool with rise and fall which you can't do with a AFD III. This is one big reason I have a tech cam is this area alone. I use a Cambo AE model which functions the same as the WRS but a nicer packaging and a Roadie 28 which is more expensive but with a 22 mpx sensor like you have the 24 and 35 will serve you very well with a 9 micron sensor and it will be a far better solution than the MF DSLR style kit. Something to consider.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Finding a good 35 AF with nice corner performance is tough. I went through several of them but a SK 35 XL is a far better lens. I had no corner issues ever with mine and very sharp.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Thanks Guy for the feedback! The problem is that my budget is very tight at this stage so going that route is not an option for me! Thank you very much for all the info, will keep that in mind for sure.

    I am not too concerned about corner sharpness (maybe my clients would be ), one thing I need to find out first is that which focal length is more versatile in shooting interiors, 25mm or 32mm in 35mm format!?

    Thanks once again,
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    I am trying to make a decision to get one of those lenses for some upcoming jobs! I shoot with Mamiya 645 AFD III and DM22 back.

    I know that Mamiya/Phase One 45mm D is generally a much better performer than 35mm AF both on center and corner sharpness and the ultimate way to do such type of photography is getting a tech camera like Alpa MAX however, my budget is not that much to go that way yet! That is why I am considering one of these lenses for such jobs! Since I don't have much expense in photographing interiors/real-estate/architecture, I would appreciate it if you guys can answer my questions;


    1. I am not sure about the appropriate focal length for such kind of photography, specially shooting interiors! Which one is more versatile? 25mm or 32mm in 35mm format!?

    2. How do they compare if shoot at f/8-f/11 for interiors?

    3. Do you recommend Mamiya 35mm AF for architecture if shooting at f/8-f/11?


    Thank you so much guys in advance
    The 45mm is a stronger technical performer than the 35mm.

    If you don't think you will absolutely need the wideness of the 35mm then I'd go with the 45mm.

    For exteriors generally you can get away with a longer lens and simply back up (not always the case, but often). For interiors you more often get into a situation where your back is against a wall - literally. In such cases having your widest lens be a 45mm on a DM22 may be limiting. If you're comfortable doing a quick nodal point stitch this can get you out of hot water when you can not shoot from further back. I dislike nodal point stitching for a variety of reasons, but in this case it may be the best option you have (45mm with occasional use of nodal-point-stitching).

    As you said a Tech Camera is really the way to go when you get down to the 23-40mm range, especially for architecture where having rise/fall and to a lesser extent tilt can be very useful. If you look at a pre-owned Cambo Wide DS and 35XL or 24XL you can get into a tech camera system for not that much more than the 45mm D costs. Full disclosure: we have such a system on our demo-items-ready-for-clearance shelf so I'm clearly biased.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    In 35mm format cameras Canon and Nikon do have 24mm PC lenses . Not sure I would use anything longer myself for interiors. You do run into walls sometimes with longer. Also these give a nice feeling of space. Plus you can do rise with these and hold your level. They will have distortion so need to work that in post as well. Right now most folks would say the Canon has the edge here. Many Nikon shooters are waiting for a replacement and also a 17mm TS that is yet to be announced but a patent was applied for.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    The 45mm is a stronger technical performer than the 35mm.

    If you don't think you will absolutely need the wideness of the 35mm then I'd go with the 45mm.

    For exteriors generally you can get away with a longer lens and simply back up (not always the case, but often). For interiors you more often get into a situation where your back is against a wall - literally. In such cases having your widest lens be a 45mm on a DM22 may be limiting. If you're comfortable doing a quick nodal point stitch this can get you out of hot water when you can not shoot from further back. I dislike nodal point stitching for a variety of reasons, but in this case it may be the best option you have (45mm with occasional use of nodal-point-stitching).

    As you said a Tech Camera is really the way to go when you get down to the 23-40mm range, especially for architecture where having rise/fall and to a lesser extent tilt can be very useful. If you look at a pre-owned Cambo Wide DS and 35XL or 24XL you can get into a tech camera system for not that much more than the 45mm D costs. Full disclosure: we have such a system on our demo-items-ready-for-clearance shelf so I'm clearly biased.
    I agree with Doug fully here try and take advantage of your back for one and do get some pricing on a WRS and 24 or 35 it really is the best option for this type of work. I tried nodal point panning on interiors and it just did not work out very well. Much better to flat stitch when dealing with walls and very straight lines and angles. Just easier on you.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Re: corner sharpness:

    This is an area that gets a huge amount of attention on the internet and often shouldn't.

    There are many styles and genres of photography for which edge sharpness is not important. Heck, I often slightly blur and vignette the edges of my more intimate wedding shots so as to help lead the eye directly to the face of the bride. Likewise fashion, portrait, and life-style shots rarely have essential detail in the corners of the frame. I'd still rather have a corner-to-corner sharp lens when shooting those since you can always blur or otherwise obscure detail if you captured it (but not the other way around). But if you shoot a beautiful headshot and the corners are slightly soft rarely will a viewer notice or care.

    But architecture, interiors, art reproduction, landscape, and product photography are all areas where, generally speaking, corner sharpness can in fact be a big deal in a practical way.

    If the client is a leather sofa maker and your shot shows the leather texture on a sofa in the center, but not a sofa at the edge or corner of the frame that can be an issue. If you fill the frame with the sofa and the center part of the sofa shows excellent leather texture but the sides do not - that can be an issue. If you shoot an exterior and the architect put a lot of work into selecting the material used on a door which falls in the corner of the frame, and the detail on that door is obscured by a poor lens - he may well notice.

    The other big practical difference in wide-angle lens quality is the lack of chromatic aberration and other fringing. Art directors may not pixel peep at 100% in the extreme corner of the image, but they often do notice if there is a giant ugly purple line at the edge of every window or a big green line running up the edge of their beloved [insert interior design element here]. While mild and even moderate chromatic aberration can be handled shockingly well in Capture One it's still better if you don't have to "handle" it at all, and out-of-focus or severe chromatic aberration can't be handled (automatically) in any software.

    Distortion is also a biggie, though for fixed lenses like the 35D and 45D the distortion can be mapped out extremely well with Capture One's automatic lens corrections. That's another area that non-photographers are likely to notice, even if they don't specifically identify and can't describe it. An interior image which shows (uncorrected or poorly corrected) severe distortion just does not look as "clean" or "right" as I've seen some non-photographer-viewers describe it.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Agree this is a area of photography where technical perfection is almost a must have. Little harder to cheat here with corner sharpness as most times this maybe a design feature or must have the detail in it. I have done this with a phase 28mm on a p25 and it did a nice job but for the price you pay for that lens the tech cam still is the better option as it really does come down to being level at any height and using rise and fall. Often times I will shoot from a low or high angle and as soon as you point up or down your lines are screwed . This is where rise and fall save the day your not restricted to shoot a certain way without pointing.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    My interior work is mostly with the 17 and 24 canon shift lenses, as Guy has already mentioned. A 24mm seems to be the sweet spot for 35mm cameras. But since you already have a back, i would jump on a used tech cam with a 24mm equivalent lens, Doug can tell you what that would be for your camera back.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Our Visualizer tells me that the closest is a 35XL. It has a tad less width, but a tad more height. A 32HR would also be a good match for that (but is not likely to fit in your budget as-described).

    Here is a screen grab from the visualizer.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    My interior work is mostly with a 17mm on a 5dii. Here are a couple of shots to give you an idea of how much of the room this lens covers:
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    If budget is really tight, how about the Mamiya 50mm shift and then stitch?

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    FWIW, I find cropping the Phase 28 mm on the IQ180 gives me better quality than using the 35, though it is a beastly heavy lens and there are filter issues if you need them.
    Bill

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Thank you all for all the information, suggestions and recommendations, really appreciate it

    First of all, I have no DSLR as I sold my 5D MK II and all L lenses almost a year ago and never regretted doing so! I am not going back to DSLR systems again so 35mm is no option for me! As I have no wide lens for my 645 system at the moment, I'd like to get one so that I can take it along my RZ67 for landscape (b&w long exposure) work! You may not agree with me in corner sharpness but honestly, don't care about that in landscape work but architecture! Many (maybe all) photographer try to capture everything in absolute shaprness corner to corner but I don't want to go that way! Maybe I am a fool

    The issue is there would be only a couple of architecture jobs on the horizon for the time being and have no idea if I can get some more jobs in the future! If I were sure that would happen, I'd definitely get a tech camera system! That is why I am trying to get a lens for 645 that can help me out with landscape and 1-2 architecture jobs!

    Thank you all once again.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Based on your current system, I'd look for a good copy of the Phase 35mm D. With a slight crop on the sensor, you're well within the sweet spot on a pretty good lens. It's no tech cam equivalent, but it's not a dog either. I really like mine; never really liked the 28mm angle of view, and the 45mm was too close in focal length to my 55LS for me to even consider.

    You can always opt for the tech cam later, and hope that Schneider addresses the need for a great DF wide-angle in the meantime. If Phase/Schneider offered a truly kick-*** wide angle for the DF, even at a premium price, it would still be less expensive than buying a Cambo WRS and all the requisite accessories required of any self-respecting receipient in Dante's Tech Cam Inferno....

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    There are of course some older Mamiya manual lenses you could use for a couple of hundred bucks and keep the $$ in the bank for a tech cam down the road. The performance is not too shabby at all.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    There are of course some older Mamiya manual lenses you could use for a couple of hundred bucks and keep the $$ in the bank for a tech cam down the road. The performance is not too shabby at all.
    I thought about Mamiya 35mm N manual focus lens for a while! It seems that a E+ condition of that lens sells around $400 on keh.com while a used Mamiya 35mm AF non-D is around $900! As Doug Peterson has already mentioned, there is no big difference between Mamiya 35mm non-D and D version image quality and distortion characteristics! That is why I considered non-D AF version but it seems finding a good copy is the toughest job on earth!
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    This question prompted me to dig out an old 45 C, as I'm going to be without a tech cam for a while, I'm presently doing a focus stack of my living room using it on the DF. Obviously it's not as good as the tech cam, my personal question is, is it workable at all if I need it.

    I set myself the challenge of objects from 1m to 5m. I found at f11 the image was pretty soft and could not get near or far even close to being called in-focus, so opted for f5.6 and stacking the images.

    Initially it looks like the right hand side might have some alignment problem. Will let you know the results.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Conclusion is very good, usable but a lot fringing. Stacking using jpegs was a bit rough. Considering it's a C lens it's quite surprising. Definitely usable as an interim measure for me. 45 is a bit tight indoors though.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    This question prompted me to dig out an old 45 C, as I'm going to be without a tech cam for a while, I'm presently doing a focus stack of my living room using it on the DF. Obviously it's not as good as the tech cam, my personal question is, is it workable at all if I need it.

    I set myself the challenge of objects from 1m to 5m. I found at f11 the image was pretty soft and could not get near or far even close to being called in-focus, so opted for f5.6 and stacking the images.

    Initially it looks like the right hand side might have some alignment problem. Will let you know the results.
    Quote Originally Posted by wentbackward View Post
    Conclusion is very good, usable but a lot fringing. Stacking using jpegs was a bit rough. Considering it's a C lens it's quite surprising. Definitely usable as an interim measure for me. 45 is a bit tight indoors though.
    Thanks for sharing your findings! It is good to know how those old lenses perform with a digital back! I have been using a Mamiya 80mm f/1.9 N with my DM22 back for portraits! So far, very happy with it However, wide angle lenses are a bit different! That makes it hard to make a decision!
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    If you are doing single shots, go with the wider. Inside you cannot always step back far enough--why do rooms always have four walls. 25mm equivalent is actually good for interiors as I find even 28mm tight.

    As far as the minimum aperture, I would up to f/16 without hesitation. Having the DoF you need will always produce a sharper image than what the effects of diffraction can do--shoot a few frames wider if you like, but f/16 will be really nice. Personally, I would even go to f/22 in some cases and the results will still be great for your clients--unsharp masking is your friend here. Your clients don't care about pixel peeping and your format will work really well at f/16-f/22. (f/8-f/11 will not have the DoF for this work. You can also looking into focus stacking and you could shoot a stack as an option.)

    If you are still determined about the 45mm, you can stitch two or three frames and shoot the camera vertical. I am not really into lots of stitching for architecture. You will need a nodal slide for interiors, which can easily be done, but it is just another layer. Then you have to account for the projection in the stitch and sometimes that is hard to judge. At this stage I would go for single frames and might try a few shots for a stitch just for the experience, but I would not count on them.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Here some images P25 plus phase 28mm no focus stacking.





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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    All shot at F11. All images shot at level. Adjusted height of tripod to accomplish framing. No pointing. Now I would have killed for a tech cam here. But with care you have workarounds.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Is that the 35 guy? One floor of our house would fit in that lounge and we're quite fortunate to have so much room! I should've added, 45 is a bit tight in hong kong!

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    All shot with the Phase 28mm on a slightly cropped P25+. Which helps on corners but I have not found a 35mm lens this good in the corners. I almost prefer the 28mm than cropping it. This is exact reason I have a tech cam it's the wides.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Guy,

    I have already seen those photos and that is why I hired Phase One 28mm for my first job almost a month ago Here is one of the shots I did at f/11 with DM22 back:


    If I finally decide to a get a wide lens for my 645 system, I'd go with 35mm AF since 28mm costs around a tech system

    I am thinking about getting a tech camera a bit deeper as I'd love to explore this area further and hopefully make it a major part of my carrier! However, I should do more research about carrier potentials at this stage!

    Can you guys shed more light on differences between Cambo Wide DS and RS also Alpa MaX 12? Which ones are more versatile and efficient in architecture photography? Any advantages with shift/weight or ease of use with DM22 back?

    Thanks once again
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Hey Aryan,

    I'd suggest you get the 35mm. The DM22 has rather large pixels thus making it quite forgiving in the corners and in regard of diffraction. If you find out that it is not enough you could also try f-stop stacking which should improve corner sharpness aswell.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    You also have options in C1 to sharpen just the corners in there lens correction tab. You can also be lens specific and correct the slight distortion in the 35. I used this feature on my 28mm lens shots above. That's the distortion feature which works fairly nicely.

    The Cambo WRS and Max essential have the same features. I can't speak of the Max since I never used it , maybe a member can help here that knows it well. But the WRS all of the movements are on the back standard Rise/fall and shift for instance. Tilt and Swing are in the lens in a special mount. You can buy most lenses either way.

    The Cambo DS the rise and fall are on the front standard, this is a older generation body that was for film back in the day. It's bigger than the WRS and again I have not shot this body either so maybe some help to explain it better. Out of the three it is the lower priced one than the WRS and Max being the most expensive.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Thank you so much guys, appreciate it again

    Guy, I tried to find more details about Cambo W-RS on Cambo website. It seems that it is a very versatile body with moderate size and weight which is very important for me as I take my RZ67 with me most of the time! I also noticed that I can use my iPhone 4 as a viewfinder which is a very cool concept however, not too sure how accurate it is! The ablity to add tilt/shift lenses to the system is amazing Can I add a 6x7 film back to it as well?

    My local Phase One dealer currently has a demo condition Cambo W-RS (all black body with box) for AUS $2200 and a used Schneider Apo-Digitar 24mm XL f5.6 for AUS $2500! Do you think the price is right?

    Thanks heaps
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    The iPhone is prett darn accurate and new software is coming from a member. But no those prices sound pretty good. The 24 will work fine on your sensor. You get into the FF sensors you will probably have magenta cast issues but on your 22 no issues at all and it is a very sharp lens too. You may try and get a little break but hard for me to compare pricing down under to our pricing. But usually you folks pay dearly for gear.

    In all honesty I think this is the probably the best option to have is a tech cam. It's a perfect solution to doing arch. work. You want rise and fall and keeping your cam level no matter what height you like low or high than just rise and fall for framing. Now it's a little more work as you need to do LCC on at least your final image but your not running around anyway. Takes a minute or so. Make sure you get sync cables from your back to lens and cable release your dealer should have all that on hand for you. If you can get a center filter than not a bad idea as well they are about 300 dollars.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    I think you can add a film back. We have to look into that for sure.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I think you can add a film back. We have to look into that for sure.
    WRS-1068 adapter plate for the Cambo, uses the Mamiya RB filmback. And for whatever reason, Guy, Cambo says it can't be used with the AE version. Hey, wanna trade your AE for my plebian WRS1050?

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    The 24 will work fine on your sensor. You get into the FF sensors you will probably have magenta cast issues but on your 22 no issues at all and it is a very sharp lens too. .
    The 24XL is an excellent very sharp lens for the non-FF sensors. You absolutely will want the center filter for it though and you have to understand that there will be basically no or at best minimal movements available even with the DM22. However, with is lens you've got so much coverage that you can generally afford to crop if necessary.

    The 36x48mm of the DM22 will just be inside the image circle of this lens. I sold mine when I moved from my P40+/Aptus 65 33x44mm sensors to the IQ160 because the lens was not able to fully cover the sensor and the color cast/vignette was severe. For a crop sensor though it is excellent.

    Be aware also about the storage instructions for this lens too - it's recommended to always store it with the helicoid at infinity - on the Alpa at least.

    The 24XL was a great lens that I wish I could have kept using ... Oh the woes of full sized MF sensors!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    No . Absolutely no interest in film this old dog has moved forward. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    The 24XL is an excellent very sharp lens for the non-FF sensors. You absolutely will want the center filter for it though and you have to understand that there will be basically no or at best minimal movements available even with the DM22. However, with is lens you've got so much coverage that you can generally afford to crop if necessary.

    The 36x48mm of the DM22 will just be inside the image circle of this lens. I sold mine when I moved from my P40+/Aptus 65 33x44mm sensors to the IQ160 because the lens was not able to fully cover the sensor and the color cast/vignette was severe. For a crop sensor though it is excellent.

    Be aware also about the storage instructions for this lens too - it's recommended to always store it with the helicoid at infinity - on the Alpa at least.

    The 24XL was a great lens that I wish I could have kept using ... Oh the woes of full sized MF sensors!
    Heck I thought about it too since I dropped back down to a crop sensor. I'm thinking you should get 5 mm rise fall?
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    With the IQ140 you'll have some rise/fall that's for sure. Not a lot, but a bit - just checked and it's about 2-3mm since you have a 55mm diagonal for the IQ140 and 60mm image circle on the lens. Nice lens - you've shot I know so you also know to get the CF.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Yea the CF is a must have . Adorama carried them at one time for like 285.00
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    A bit confused now guys

    Melbourne Phase One dealer has Cambo WRS-1000! So, if I get that one with DM22 back, you are saying there would be very minimal rise and fall shift with 24mm XL lens? Can you please tell me what the equivalent if 24mm XL lens is in 35mm format? 17mm?

    And if I want to have full movement, should get the 28 or 35 XL?

    Cheers,
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    The 24 only has a manufacturer specified 60mm image circle. I think your sensor has a diagonal of 60mm. There would probably be NO shifts and some risk that the 24 does not work very well even unshifted.

    The diagonal of small format is 43.27 60/43.27 is about 1.38 times so 24/1.38 = 17.4mm appx.

    The Rodie 28 has a 70mm image circle so as a straight shot would be 28/1.38 = 20mm appx. With stitching it would be (factor = 70/43.27 = 1.62) 28/1.62 = 17.2mm.

    One thing I'm unsure if this is correct: sensor diagonal of 60mm and circle of 70mm you should have 10mm of h or v shift, so 10mm of rise if you're trying to straighten the verticals is OK, but not great.

    If the sunspots are up and the wind is in the right direction, I might have even got the calcs right, I would double check though. To look these up I used Paula's lens pages and the Alpa_CFL_CALC spreadsheet from the tools secion on their website.
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Loved your website btw!
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    36x48mm sensor with 70mm image circles will give you 7.5mm or 6mm rise/fall or shift depending on the sensor orientation. With a 60mm image circle there would be no rise/fall or shifts available. 90mm gets you 23/20mm.

    With 33x44mm the 60mm image circle will support 3/3.9mm and 70mm would be 10.7/8.8mm.

    On a DM22 the 24XL is crop equivalent to 17mm, 35XL is 25mm.

    From Alpa tables, 35xl will give you 23/20mm rise fall with both 33x44 & 36x48.
    Last edited by GrahamWelland; 2nd June 2012 at 09:04.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Have to correct myself I was thinking the DM22 was the same size as the P40 which that is wrong it's the same as the P25 which is bigger. Next best choice to stay in same price range is the 35 XL which has a bigger image circle.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Thank you so much guys

    I checked 35 XL specifications and it seems it has 90mm image circle! 24 XL and 28 L both have 60mm image circle! So, the widest I can go even on a tech camera would be 25mm in 35mm format with DM22 if I want to have full rise/fall control! That makes me think if the value of a tech camera would just be getting higher image quality and corner sharpness with less distortion, does it really worth it!? Would 35 XL + DM22 back be suitable enough to cover most interiors with full rise and fall or I may have to do stitchings sometimes as well!

    I am asking such questions because I have very little experience with architecture/interiors photography so a bit worried that a 35 XL would not be wide enough for interiors forcing me to upgrade my back later one

    Thank you again,
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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  45. #45
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Well you can stitch too and I had the 35xl lens and it will smoke anything in that range outside a roadie 32 hr at a cost of over 8 thousand dollars. The mamiya 35d just will not hold a candle to it. To me this is a no brainer I would get the tech cam. The movements are worth every dime you put into it. I'm a little bit of a purist though and want everything in my capture instead of doing a lot of photoshop correction work.

    There is a a Cambo WRS and 35 XL for sale in the B&S too from Tim. He resides in England
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Guy, thanks again. I have not heard of B&S before, googled it but no luck! Can you please send me the link to that page!?
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Yes it's our buy and sell section of the forum. Here is Tim's ad might be worth sending him a PM.

    http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/gear-f...o-wide-fs.html
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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  48. #48
    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Ooops, thought it is a different forum lol Cheers,
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    Guy, I know you have purchased Nikon D800 for some specific works and never going to give up you Cambo! Although I have no plan to go back to DSLR world again, just trying to compare it with a tech camera! Apart from image quality and not so good Nikon 24mm tilt/shift lens, how do you compare a Cambo setup with 35 XL and D800!? The only thing that I like about D800 is 5:7 ratio crop!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
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  50. #50
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Mamiya 35mm AF or 45mm D for interiors/realestate

    I still love my Phase back overall it has nicer tonal range and a nice look to the files but Nikon sure did leap big time, it's a really nice file. The 35 XL at 25mm compared to the Nikon 24 1.4 I have which is damn good , the 35 XL is still the better lens with better corners. It's really getting close and I think most of have said its good enough for most applications. Certainly easier and less expensive system with still great value in IQ .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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