Site Sponsors
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 50 of 70

Thread: Price drops for Phase one backs....

  1. #1
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Price drops for Phase one backs....

    I just received an email from a dealer that there are significant price drops for some Phase one backs:


    P40+ DB $12,990.00*
    P40+ DF Kit $16,990.00*

    P65+ Pre-Owned $19,990.00*

    Backs come with a 1 year Classic Warranty
    All mounts Available
    Pricing good through June 29th, 2012


    * Each back purchase also receives a $350 voucher for additional accessories and a 1 year free subscription to
    (DF Studio)
    Calumet was listing the P40+ DF Kit for $20,990.00

    So oif that's right it's a 23.5 % discount... similar to Hasselblad's recent discount.

  2. #2
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    2,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    At the risk of starting a 20 post discussion of math, it would appear that the discount is 19.1%. $4000 (the price drop) divided by 20,990 (the former price).

    Not that this matters a great deal, but you'd think there have been enough of the sky is falling threads. I guess not.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post

    So oif that's right it's a 23.5 % discount... similar to Hasselblad's recent discount.
    Note - this is limited only to the P40+ and P65+, not the entire lineup. It makes sense, since the entry level sensors have gradually reached end of life (Kodak 16MP, 18MP, 22MP, and - as of today - Dalsa 28MP). Medium format has done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels, this move serves to reinforce that despite the extinction of some of the previous entry level sensors.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  4. #4
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    P45+ ?? Yes, yes I know, wishful thinking ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  5. #5
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    253
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    P45+ ?? Yes, yes I know, wishful thinking ...
    P45+'s are too awesome
    Rick Rose
    www.RickrPhoto.com
    HasselPhase
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  7. #7
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    At the risk of starting a 20 post discussion of math, it would appear that the discount is 19.1%. $4000 (the price drop) divided by 20,990 (the former price).

    Not that this matters a great deal, but you'd think there have been enough of the sky is falling threads. I guess not.
    It's been a long time since I was in high school... my math is getting a bit rusty.

  8. #8
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Medium format has done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels, this move serves to reinforce that despite the extinction of some of the previous entry level sensors.


    Steve Hendrix
    ? Done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels?????

    If anyone has it's Pentax.

    Pentax 645D plus 55mm 2.8 $11,190. 40MP 44x33 sensor and the best MF body.

    Phase one equivalent p40+ plus DF body (not sure if that includes the lens) $ 16,990 same MP, not so nice bokeh and a crappy body.

    Hasselblad H4D 40MP $ 16,995 better body, nicer lenses (better bokeh), prism not so good, way better auto focus.
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  9. #9
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Fred you’ve more than adequately displayed your intense dislike towards anything to do with Phase One. Don’t you think it time to stop with the negative attacks and begin contributing with what this site was originally set up to do?

    It’s getting old. Too bad we don’t have an ignore button – but then again we never really had the need for one.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  10. #10
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Fred I think it is fair to ask that you add a big, bold IMO at the beginning/ end of every statement;

    "The best MF body"? Perhaps, if you don't want/need more than 44x33mm 40MP and a WLF or modern lenses

    "Not so nice bokeh"? This is lens specific, nothing to do with back/ body

    "Prism not so good"? Compared to Pentax?

    "Way better auto focus"? Compared to Pentax?

    BR

    Yair
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Zug/Zurich (Switzerland), Dubai, Sydney
    Posts
    334
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Fred I think it is fair to ask that you add a big, bold IMO at the beginning/ end of every statement;

    "The best MF body"? Perhaps, if you don't want/need more than 44x33mm 40MP and a WLF or modern lenses

    "Not so nice bokeh"? This is lens specific, nothing to do with back/ body

    "Prism not so good"? Compared to Pentax?

    "Way better auto focus"? Compared to Pentax?

    BR

    Yair
    +1
    Siebel
    "In the end, it's all about the pictures"
    www.bryansiebel.com

  12. #12
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    How many photographers are needed to have an argument?

    V
    V
    V
    V

    One.






    Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 1st June 2012 at 03:11.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Lindenberg im Allgäu
    Posts
    1,294
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    12

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Well I don´t have any problems with Phase One, but isn´t it interesting how "allergic" some people react if there is anything said that shows that even in Danmark people are just normal humans and probably react to the Hasselblad price cut. So what is so tempting on this ?
    And yes: the Pentax 645 has brought prices down. Definitely.
    I have talked to the german Dealers just recently during the Canon and PCP tour and I can tell you this is true.
    And about the quality of the Pentax body and lenses - I don´t think they are worse than any other products.The idea to connect the back and the body prevents several problems that exist with mounts shimming, calibration etc.pp. I know several Photographers who make gorgeous images with it and love this camera.

    so ? why the uproar ?

    Regards
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

  14. #14
    Member Miller's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    66
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Reminds me of:

    Argument Clinic - YouTube

    Frans Rutten

  15. #15
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Well I don´t have any problems with Phase One, but isn´t it interesting how "allergic" some people react if there is anything said that shows that even in Danmark people are just normal humans and probably react to the Hasselblad price cut. So what is so tempting on this ?
    And yes: the Pentax 645 has brought prices down. Definitely.
    I have talked to the german Dealers just recently during the Canon and PCP tour and I can tell you this is true.
    And about the quality of the Pentax body and lenses - I don´t think they are worse than any other products.The idea to connect the back and the body prevents several problems that exist with mounts shimming, calibration etc.pp. I know several Photographers who make gorgeous images with it and love this camera.

    so ? why the uproar ?

    Regards
    Stefan
    Yes, why the uproar?

    This is a Photokina year ... and it is June. Discounts on older tech is normal because perceptually, some technology will be one more generation older in just a few months. It's all part of the Lemming culture that drives digital photography.

    IMO, anecdotal information doesn't warrant definitive words like "definitely" ... whether the Pentax 645 affected pricing is pure speculation even from dealer sources. How the MFD companies structure their pricing is beyond the scope of our understanding ... and as far as I've noticed, it is business as usual ... it's all a "Tempest in a teapot".

    BTW, integrated bodies also need to be calibrated.

    We can speculate endlessly, creating a nail biting atmosphere that drives the whole marketing scheme of digital photography. Hasselblad has dropped all of their prices ... which could be a reaction to the market conditions, OR ... it means new technology come Photokina, which is about due given the age of the platform and the amount of tweaks made to it over the years.

    Nothing would surprise me. However, how people react to it is always surprising.

    -Marc
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    191
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    ? Done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels?????

    If anyone has it's Pentax.

    Pentax 645D plus 55mm 2.8 $11,190. 40MP 44x33 sensor and the best MF body.

    Phase one equivalent p40+ plus DF body (not sure if that includes the lens) $ 16,990 same MP, not so nice bokeh and a crappy body.

    Hasselblad H4D 40MP $ 16,995 better body, nicer lenses (better bokeh), prism not so good, way better auto focus.
    Fred,

    I am also interested in knowing why the H4D prism is not so good, it is obviously not a WLF or a loupe but as a prism it works very well in my opinion.

    I do agree with you on the pricing structure of both Phase One and Hasselblad. As also Canon and Sony most likely will move into the 30+MP resolution space the current prices of Hasselblad and Phase One become increasingly unrealistic. You can charge 2 or 3 times as much for a perceived quality difference but 5 or 6 times is a lot in my humble opinion.

    Joris.

  17. #17
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    ? Done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels?????

    If anyone has it's Pentax.

    Pentax 645D plus 55mm 2.8 $11,190. 40MP 44x33 sensor and the best MF body.

    Phase one equivalent p40+ plus DF body (not sure if that includes the lens) $ 16,990 same MP, not so nice bokeh and a crappy body.

    Hasselblad H4D 40MP $ 16,995 better body, nicer lenses (better bokeh), prism not so good, way better auto focus.
    Fred general comments like this are very misleading . Your not being specific . Phase has many lenses for instance . I shoot this system myself and several of there lenses have some of the best bokeh around. So these are very unfair comments about product line you have not fully explored. To me this is bad data and nothing bothers me more than bad data it helps no one and honestly not in the spirit of this forum.

    There is nothing wrong with disliking a system a lens or anything like that but continued distaste for something just leads to your credibility factor and reputation. Something you should be aware of.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  18. #18
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    BTW the p40 comes with body and 80mm LS lens for 16,990. Which given this sensor I shot myself for about 3 years is a nice entry or upgrade into MF. I actually currently am shooting this exact size and sensor again in the IQ 140 which lists for over 21k for just the back. For folks that are looking for some lenses that have nice bokeh I suggest the 110LS lens and the 150 2.8 D lens for starters. The 300 4.5 is also a very nice bokeh lens. There are more but for portraits these are the most common.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  19. #19
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Don Libby,

    A forum is where ideas and views on particular issues can be exchanged. Fred's opinion is valued because of his experience. You as a landscape photographer, and Fred as a model/portrait shooter, offer useful input that we all appreciate, but as shutter cycles in in a fashion/portrait shoot can easily go over 1000 in a day - I find those scenarios to be more suggestive of a cameras performance and reliability. If Fred's experience is not one that you can relate to, then I suggest you respect his right to make comments...

    MFD has lost market share, and because of cameras like the Pentax 645D (amazing camera!) and the D800, the window is smaller to achieve professional results at a fraction of the cost. So now, we should be grateful, that for the price of a new, really nice car, we can get a new, mediocre performing MFD camera, with no weather sealing or high ISO, or multiple AF points because it's Photokina? Here's where I insert my smiley face to make my point...
    Likes 2 Member(s) liked this post

  20. #20
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA
    Posts
    2,275
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Johnny,

    I think Don's point is that to some it might appear that Fred is

    There sometimes appear to be posts that are based on some animus rather that a desire to discuss photos or photographic equipment. When it gets to the point that the combination of a poster's name and a given subject tells me in advance what he is going to say, it does get a bit old.

    In addition, as other threads have shown, not everyone needs or wants the exact same feature set. Does the absence of multiple focus points and weather sealing make the Pentax better than the ALPA?

    Steve
    Likes 3 Member(s) liked this post

  21. #21
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    There is nothing wrong with disliking a system a lens or anything like that but continued distaste for something just leads to your credibility factor and reputation. Something you should be aware of.
    (I think I am fortunate in that) I have never seen a Phase camera, but, Guy, I think you would like to avoid the "credibility factor and reputation" of Luminous Landscape, where any criticism of Phase results in howls of protest, and criticisms of Hasselblad are ignored.

    ...and the best kit (IMO Sinar) hardly ever gets mentioned.

  22. #22
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Carmel/Tucson
    Posts
    2,355
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Don't hold me to the exact date of release, but I do believe the MFDBs involved here are about three years old in terms technology and when Phase One first offered them, and they were well-received. Three years old. I really don't see what the big deal is here----a price reduction on three year old technology is totally normal, and it's not the first reduction either. Of course, for those of us with many years of experience with medium format digital, it's easy to see and understand these price cycles. But then again, you'd think common sense could prevail on occasion. (Think brand new car sold in the following product year = discount from msrp. Duh.)

    And no one knows these new price cycles and product releases like Guy... (Sorry couldn't help myself, Guy. So, when's the next twelve-step meeting? See you there...)

    And from a portrait photographer who has shot with medium format digital backs for about ten years, I do find that positing a rather limited or micro experience opinion in medium format digital to be a hasty generalization and misleading to then paint the entire format or industry with a broad negative brush. It's unfair. It's deceptive. I don't find it helpful in the least. It doesn't give me that warm fuzzy feeling that I used to have when I described the "GetDPI family." Part of what made GetDPI so valuable as a resource is drawing from the actual personal experience of those who really own and use the equipment extensively, with an intimate knowledge of the benefits, negatives, quirks, and workarounds. If I wanted anecdoctal comments from a Google search, I can do that myself.

    For someone who has so publicly bid farewell to medium format digital on GetDPI, I find it rather ironic that Fred still seems to be so entrenched in medium format digital, or is Dante's pull so strong that he's just looking for a good deal?

    Hell, if I bid farewell to a camera system (or indeed the entire medium format digital industry) and I received an email from a dealer, I call that junk mail or spam, and I hit the delete button and that's the end of it. No need to post about it on the forum in hopes of uncovering some vast Phase One or Hasselblad conspiracy theory.

    Of course, just my .02.

  23. #23
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Hi Steven,

    I believe Fred's "animus" is based on his experience with MFD, and his discussions are warranted. When I first posted my comments about MFD, I was trounced on for my opinions, and told I was "leap frogging" or eccentric, but no one respected or listened to my actual experience with the camera. So yes, you are correct associating names with topics, as indicative of what the comment will be, but maybe, just maybe, if MFDSLR, was actually worth what you pay, then these discussions would have a different tone. I bet that someday, if you purchase a MFDB, they'll throw in the DF for free, it's the least they could do

    Comparing an Alpa to a 645D, is really determined on what's behind the Alpa, and the use of LF lenses on the Alpa changes that too. Besides with the Alpa, I can also shoot film!
    I understand your point though, but this is a forum. Thanks.

  24. #24
    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    1,575
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Stefan Steib View Post
    Well I don´t have any problems with Phase One, but isn´t it interesting how "allergic" some people react if there is anything said that shows that even in Danmark people are just normal humans and probably react to the Hasselblad price cut. So what is so tempting on this ?
    Stefan,

    If you scream in someone's ear, do you really have to ask "why are they so sensitive and defensive?"

    --Matt
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  25. #25
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Don't hold me to the exact date of release, but I do believe the MFDBs involved here are about three years old in terms technology
    In general I am now pleased with my Hasselblad, but generally a new Hasselblad has to be about three years old before you get the software etc. to fulfil the originally promised specification... but I think that is "normal" for MFD?

  26. #26
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,579
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    I see Fred's original post as a friendly "heads up" and nothing to suggest dislike for an industry.
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  27. #27
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    (I think I am fortunate in that) I have never seen a Phase camera, but, Guy, I think you would like to avoid the "credibility factor and reputation" of Luminous Landscape, where any criticism of Phase results in howls of protest, and criticisms of Hasselblad are ignored.

    ...and the best kit (IMO Sinar) hardly ever gets mentioned.
    I can't speak for other forums but sure that stuff is always around. I don't post there on a regular basis but I did the other day. Every systems has a piece or several parts of it that are less than stellar. I know I have been not as happy with Phase on the DF it works but certainly could be better. Hassy,Leica all have issues as well. Pentax too

    Sinar here in the states never had enough users and the total support of the system here as it did in Europe. I was not fond of the Hy6 myself but a lot do. I just don't get into beating systems up I don't own.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  28. #28
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    So let's move on to the topic at hand shall we. Like Hassy , Phase does have a 3 year product line that it wants to move out and for both companies this is very normal. I think it's a good time for those wanting to get in now to look at some of these deals. I know from experience the P40 is a wonderful back with nice sensor, same with some of the Hassy offerings. As Photokinia comes closer I'm sure new product will emerge. Like car companies they will discount last years model.

    I think what we are all hoping for regardless of your brand is they all adress some of the issues we talk about. Sort of like firmware we all want to see that improve functionality and lets face it all these backs produce great IQ that is not really the issue but more functional topics in each system is usually our issues. Hell these sensors are great but sure we would all love higher ISO , faster speed, wireless capture etc. Let's hope we see some of this. I would love a body with no mirror , no shutter and reduce weight and size. Longer exposure backs that can perform like the P45 and hell even just give us 30 minutes.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  29. #29
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerimar View Post
    P45+'s are too awesome
    If I have a regret for selling anything in MF, this was it...
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  30. #30
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    32° 31' 37.06" N, 111° 6' 0.9" W
    Posts
    4,333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If I have a regret for selling anything in MF, this was it...
    Right there with you Jack. As much as I love the P65+ the P45+ was/is special.
    Don Libby
    Iron Creek Photography
    Blog
    Tucson AZ
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  31. #31
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Maybe we will see something here at Photokinia with long exposure back. Solve a lot shooters issues.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  32. #32
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    ? Done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels?????

    If anyone has it's Pentax.

    Pentax 645D plus 55mm 2.8 $11,190. 40MP 44x33 sensor and the best MF body.

    Phase one equivalent p40+ plus DF body (not sure if that includes the lens) $ 16,990 same MP, not so nice bokeh and a crappy body.

    Hasselblad H4D 40MP $ 16,995 better body, nicer lenses (better bokeh), prism not so good, way better auto focus.

    Just to clarify what I say here - Fred - if you read my post, you'll see that I wrote "Medium format has done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels"...

    That includes Pentax, and at times Phase One (before the P20+/21+/25+ were discontinued) as well as Leaf (Aptus-II 22, 28, etc...), and Hasselblad (H3D-II 31). The point was the pricing, not the subjective merits of the products.


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  33. #33
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    One other point re MF backs, and for Phase and Leaf specifically: The majority of their back sales are to military, scientific and industrial customers, so I suspect accommodating our wishes for pricing and possibly even features is a relatively low priority for them.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  34. #34
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    If I have a regret for selling anything in MF, this was it...
    Ditto my P25+.

    30s - 1 or 2 mins doesn't really cut it if you have any interest in long exposure landscapes or nightscapes. I just bought a D800 pretty much solely for these purposes but really I want something to put on Alpa. Sigh ... now I'm hunting around to replace the P25+ again but without breaking the bank.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  35. #35
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Im a medium format shooter may I ask a question. What is a bank???

    Its funny I am sitting here revising my gear list for my insurance company. I just told my son to get the damn gun out of the house and go throw it in the desert. LOL

    Scary thing is i have not got to the Phase gear YET. ROTFLMAO
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  36. #36
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    It's where you used to have money
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
    Likes 1 Member(s) liked this post

  37. #37
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I just bought a D800 pretty much solely for these purposes but really I want something to put on Alpa. Sigh ...
    Graham,

    Have you seen the Cambo X2 yet? Cambo - X2-PRO System

    It does not mount on your Alpa, but it maybe can replace it for many things... Note too that it can accommodate Hassy CF/V lenses, Mamiya 645 and RB/RZ lenses, as well as all of the current Schneider and Rodie Tech lenses, and then allow you to attach your Nikon or even DF to the back .
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  38. #38
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, WA
    Posts
    5,802
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    564

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Graham,

    Have you seen the Cambo X2 yet? Cambo - X2-PRO System

    It does not mount on your Alpa, but it maybe can replace it for many things... Note too that it can accommodate Hassy CF/V lenses, Mamiya 645 and RB/RZ lenses, as well as all of the current Schneider and Rodie Tech lenses, and then allow you to attach your Nikon or even DF to the back .
    Unfortunately the concept of high quality wide angle lenses doesn't apply to that ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"

  39. #39
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    wish it did solves a few issues
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  40. #40
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Unfortunately the concept of high quality wide angle lenses doesn't apply to that ...
    Yep, remains an issue for wider than 28.
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  41. #41
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    Just to clarify what I say here - Fred - if you read my post, you'll see that I wrote "Medium format has done a good job of pushing entry level pricing to more reasonable levels"...

    That includes Pentax, and at times Phase One (before the P20+/21+/25+ were discontinued) as well as Leaf (Aptus-II 22, 28, etc...), and Hasselblad (H3D-II 31). The point was the pricing, not the subjective merits of the products.


    Steve Hendrix
    I simply wanted to make two points.

    First is give a heads up that Phase One is discounting. I found out through an email from a dealer. I thought I would pass it on because it is not on the Phase One website yet.

    My other point in response to Steve Hendrix is that I do not think that MF in general has done a good job at lowering prices. If anything the huge progress from 35mm DSLR manufacturers is forcing them to do so. I think it is very significant that Pentax, a high volume 35mm DSLR manufacturer, makes the best deal and best body when comparing 44x33mm sensor cameras.

  42. #42
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post

    "The best MF body"? Perhaps, if you don't want/need more than 44x33mm 40MP and a WLF or modern lenses.

    Yair
    Yair ... if you read my post it was a comparison between 44x33 entry level sensors.

  43. #43
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    "Not so nice bokeh"? This is lens specific, nothing to do with back/ body

    Yair
    Well I hate to break the news to you but the body indirectly has a lot to do with the bokeh.
    You see there is this thing on the front called a bayonet mount and electronic communication
    between lens and body...... so you can only mount compatible lenses if you want to maintain full functionality.

    The phase one lenses with the exception of the 150mm 2.8 IF are not particularly nice when it comes to bokeh. That said the 150mm 2.8 IF is really really good and I've said that before.

    I have also given praise where it is merited. One good thing about the Phase one body is that thanks to the focal plane shutter you can use some 3rd party lenses using adapters and well a older 645 lenses.

  44. #44
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Fred you’ve more than adequately displayed your intense dislike towards anything to do with Phase One.
    Not true. I have given more than a fair share of praise where it is merited IMO.

  45. #45
    Not Available
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    471
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by JorisV View Post
    Fred,

    I am also interested in knowing why the H4D prism is not so good, it is obviously not a WLF or a loupe but as a prism it works very well in my opinion.

    Joris.
    It works, but it could be far better. It's a professional camera and photographers like me have shoots that can go over 8 hours.

    My problem with the prism is that you have to keep your eye really centered for viewing to be good. Prisms that are really good are the high eyepoint Nikon prisms and the best of all being the Fuji gx680 Prism that is actually just a highly polished mirror and an eyepiece. However that eyepiece has a very large rear element and large magnification.

    I think that both Hasselblad and Phase one went with to compact a design for their prisms (the Phase One is better though IMO). Both have really crappy eyecups. Considering the price of their systems there should at least be a few more eyepiece options. Just look at what is offered on high end movie cameras. I would not even call phase ones eye cup and eyecup.

    Here is what a proper eyecup looks like:



    Notice how you don't have your nose stuffed up against the camera back.

    Being in Southern California I shoot on the beaches and in the desert. I hate it when stray light is getting in the lens and it's especially a pain in the *** when using ND filter and polarizers for shallow depth of field.

    What complicates things even more is that the prism of both the Hasselblad and Phase one are irregular shapes so it is hard to fit any third party professional level eyecups to it like the Bisley scope maximizer and the I-cuff

    Here are some more images of proper eyecups.





    I brought up the issue of a better eyecup with Phase One USA, but they said they would not make an eyecup for the DF. I even pointed them to the Bisley scope maximizer that could be easily have a plate made for it to attach to a DF with rotation. It would avoid the cost of a mould.

    One thing that people don't realize is that a really good eyecup with some weight and stiffness to it contributes to more stability. IMHO the Bisley scope maximizer makes a world of difference in stability.

    Here is the Fuji Prism with a Phase One back to give you a better idea of the size of the eyepiece.



    and here is the "little rubber cushion" on the back of the Phase One


  46. #46
    Senior Member yaya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    London, UK
    Posts
    1,168
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    38

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    Yair ... if you read my post it was a comparison between 44x33 entry level sensors.
    Right....do you think that Pentax see and/ or market the 645D as their "entry level 44x33mm 40MP product"? It's the most expensive Pentax flagship ever made for crying out loud!
    Have you compared the bokeh on the Pentax 55mm/2.8 to the Schneider 55mm/2.8 LS or the Hasselblad HC50? Any insights or examples?

  47. #47
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    I simply wanted to make two points.

    First is give a heads up that Phase One is discounting. I found out through an email from a dealer. I thought I would pass it on because it is not on the Phase One website yet.

    My other point in response to Steve Hendrix is that I do not think that MF in general has done a good job at lowering prices. If anything the huge progress from 35mm DSLR manufacturers is forcing them to do so. I think it is very significant that Pentax, a high volume 35mm DSLR manufacturer, makes the best deal and best body when comparing 44x33mm sensor cameras.

    On the issue of lowering prices we can agree to disagree. But until recent years, pricing on digital backs averaged roughly $16K - $30K. In just the past few years, while top end pricing has maintained or gone up, entry level (which was my point) has gone down to start around $7,000. I don't have an opinion on the significance of Pentax in response, particularly regarding the subjective usage of the term "best".


    Steve Hendrix
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: • Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar • Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: • Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar • Authorized Reseller

  48. #48
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    I think it is fine to have "pot stirrers" and their supportive minions. Keeps things lively.

    No one has to read anything anyone says if they don't want to. It is also natural that those with different experiences and different personal tastes may well disagree, and say so.

    A few thoughts:

    Personally, I'm not stepping backwards to 35mm from any maker at any megapixel as my main Image Quality tool, nor am I about to start shooting 5X7, 4X5 or 8X10 film again, even though I like the aesthetic ... for someone else, not me.

    Liking someone's work isn't the same as liking the same tools for your work, unless you want to be like someone else.

    I do not mix up Phase One, Hasselblad, Pentax, Rollei, etc.. They are different approaches that happen to be 645 based MFD. Painting a format with a broad brush based on a like or dislike of one make or model, or a personal experience is unfair. Also, if you are directionless, you could probably end up trying all of them eventually and never be satisfied ... then leap on every new gadget the makers dream-up and sell with the ferocity of an evangelist.

    Or, you may know exactly what your direction is, and be perfectly content with something other than MFD. Never the twain shall meet.

    I do no buy the premise that MFD is for slowing down because of the gear. I shoot candid and structured wedding work with MFD, and there is NOTHING slow about shooting a wedding. Of course, I don't machine gun everything and cross my fingers ... never have.

    I do not buy that all MFDs are low ISO machines. "Low" is a relative word. My H4D/40 did a beautiful 1600. Most 35mm DSLRs that do higher ISOs introduce to many image compromises beyond 1600/3200 for my tastes ... so it is a non-issue IMO. Besides, I often use lighting anyway.

    I understand the desire for weather proofing ... for some users. Weather proofing is another non-issue for me. My subjects aren't out frolicking in the rain after $2,000 worth of wardrobe/hair&make-up, and either do I without some cover. Besides, I've been caught in a howling Monsoon down pour a few times that soaked me to my shorts in a few seconds, and the H camera just kept on shooing. Tight tolerances perhaps?

    Pricing is also relative. Depends on how long you've been in MFD, when and how you paid for the initial price of entry, and how wise you were in up-grading. If starting from scratch today, in this economic climate, it has to give one pause. However, if you are pretty focused on your creative direction the path will be clearer, either way.

    -Marc
    Likes 4 Member(s) liked this post

  49. #49
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Warks, UK
    Posts
    550
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by yaya View Post
    Right....do you think that Pentax see and/ or market the 645D as their "entry level 44x33mm 40MP product"? It's the most expensive Pentax flagship ever made for crying out loud!
    I was put off Pentax by their TV ad, which said:

    "When the talk comes round to cameras, simply say that you have a Pentax"

    ¿Do they still sell cameras to talk about?

    Have they ¿like Mamiya? made some progress in the last 40 years?

    Yes.. Hasselblad have also changed...

    They no longer build "the standard" mount compatible digibacks.

  50. #50
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Dallas/Novosibirsk
    Posts
    632
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Price drops for Phase one backs....

    Quote Originally Posted by FredBGG View Post
    I think it is very significant that Pentax, a high volume 35mm DSLR manufacturer
    They are pretty small, actually. Nor they do make 35mm dSLR, actually, but sub-35mm dSLR. Even in Japan they got only 7.5% share of market as of 2011. Across all the SLRs they got
    - worst AF (precision + speed)
    - worst ISO response (as in - iso is actuallys sub- for real iso response, about 75%)
    - worst stabilization (never got past ancient patents, Olympus and Minolta got way better performance there, comparing in-body stabs)

    If it werent for samsung making clones and (receding) army of fans (specially in Eastern European countries, who had piles of m42 optics they like to reuse) who were waiting for 645 and still waiting on full frame 35mm - they'd be deader than dodo.

    So revolutionary they are not. But it was good of them to finally make good on 2 decades of promisses and finally make attempt on MF market.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •