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IQ 140/IQ 160 movements with tech cam

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Just a quick update since I just checked this out. On my Roadie 28mm with CF and with my IQ 160 I was able to get a safe movement of about 7mm in either direction. Now with a crop sensor of the IQ 140 that number just went up to 12mm of movement in either direction. So given IF I can PULL the the camera back to the same focal length that would equal the FF IQ 160 than my net movements would be more . Let me be clear i have to move back and as we all know that may not always be the case. So in effect I actually gained something here. Not a bad thing

Remember the 28mm Roadie is equal to a 18mm 35mm equivalent and with the IQ 140 it is 22mm. So i would have to pull back 4mm of focal length to match the 160 sensor size. For arch. shooters its all about Rise/fall and than its always about the damn wall behind you as well.
 

Uaiomex

Member
Very well said. That's why I am asking everywhere for a swivel screen for at least one FF dslr in a system. In my personal case, I was devastated when I found out the 5D3 didn't have one.
Leaf has some backs with a one-way swivel screen. That's nice, very nice.

I just got a Canon G1X and as I suspected, the swivel screen is a godsend in many real life situations for comfort, convenience or stealth purposes. For pro cameras in architecture it would be fantastic not to contort myself in order to see through the lens when the camera is just a few inches from the wall, which is 90% of all cases in interior photography.

Once more, I'll say it: It beats me why swivel screens are not more wanted, more popular or better offered by camera makers. The pros easily surpass the cons.
Well, sorry for hi-jacking the thread.
Eduardo


 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Not at all you bring up a excellent point a swivel screen would be of help. I know I stuffed the camera as far back as I could into the corner of a wall but the issue is I need my head back there as well if we had a swivel screen than that would gain maybe 12-18 inches of space. I know that does not sound like a lot but on interiors sometimes its what can make or break a image. Also given what i just did by going down in sensor size 4mm does not sound like a lot but it is when it comes to wide angles. I would love to see some type of swivel. Maybe Yair can tell us more on the Leaf backs if he is reading this. I think they just go up or down not to the side which is what we would want. Even my dang Nikon with more bells and whistles to wake up a whole state does not have it.

I realize tethered in this situation would be great but not always a option.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
I don't see that you're gaining much here really.

The IQ160 sensor is 7.5mm taller, and 9.8mm wider than the IQ140's, and has the same pixel pitch. That extra 5mm or so of shift that you're getting with the IQ140 surely wouldn't be necessary if you were shooting on the IQ160? No need to shift the extra amount, because the relevant portion of the image circle is hitting the extra pixels already?

Probably needs a diagram to explain it clearer, but - assuming you're shooting in landscape - a vertical shift of around 4mm on the IQ140 is effectively just a different 40MP crop on the IQ160.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
But I don't have a 160 now. Obviously this all depends if I can MOVE back to the 160 focal length . Basically its the same framing as the 160 than so I have 12mm of movement instead of 7mm. I have to equal the same focal length as the 160 with the same 28mm lens the only way to do that is move the camera to equal it. If I can't move I gain nothing.

Lets make this clearer I have a 160 on my tech cam with the 28mm lens and lets say I am 20 ft from a building. Now take the same lens stick on a a 140 back and move back lets say 25 ft to equal the SAME framing than I have 12mm of rise instead of 7mm.
 

gazwas

Active member
Yep, I'm not getting your logic guy. In a situation where you can step back with an IQ140 to equal the FOV of the IQ160 just means you can step back with the 160 and get an even wider FOV if desired. You're not actually able to shift more on the 140 and Rodie because the lens IC is fixed, regardless of sensor size. The amount of mm of movent is a pretty meaningless figure and the tech lens FOV is a better measurement of potential movement IMO.

Well at least that is what I've always thought.
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
Appreciate the explanation Guy, but as Gareth points out, if you can move back with the 140, then you could move back with the 160. You wouldn't gain any benefit from the perceived extra shift, since 4mm of that shift comes "for free" with the larger sensor of the 160.

Apologies if I'm misinterpreting things here!
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Well Im back further is what is making sense to me. The problem here is the disk in the roadie it stops me from going further than 7mm on a FF sensor it actually vignettes. On the crop sensor it gives me 12mm until I see it if I am back enough to equal the same focal length I had with the 160 it seems I get extra movement . Than again maybe Im crazy which is not a stretch by any means. LOL

Guys you need to remember i don't have the 160 now. LOL Thats the problem
 

gazwas

Active member
Guy, if you stand in the same position with an IQ140/160 and a Rodie 28mm lens on each camera, both offer the same amount of movement. It just happens you need to move the 140 more because it's a smaller chip. The lens dictates the movement (possible FOV) not the chip.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Just a quick update since I just checked this out. On my Roadie 28mm with CF and with my IQ 160 I was able to get a safe movement of about 7mm in either direction. Now with a crop sensor of the IQ 140 that number just went up to 12mm of movement in either direction. So given IF I can PULL the the camera back to the same focal length that would equal the FF IQ 160 than my net movements would be more . Let me be clear i have to move back and as we all know that may not always be the case. So in effect I actually gained something here. Not a bad thing

Remember the 28mm Roadie is equal to a 18mm 35mm equivalent and with the IQ 140 it is 22mm. So i would have to pull back 4mm of focal length to match the 160 sensor size. For arch. shooters its all about Rise/fall and than its always about the damn wall behind you as well.
One can do the same with a bigger sensor and cropping to 33x44m sensor area.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Your missing the point I no longer have the FF sensor of the 160 I sold it and now have a IQ 140 with a smaller sensor.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Have you thought of checking out Panogear.

Definitely an option when there are walls behind you.

Quality is quite amazing and with the massive files sizes you get you can do some very good distortion correction in photoshop.




here is an image from the panogear forum...

10 portrait shots..... that's 360MP with your D800 and even more with your iq180



The unit is fully automatic and it's very integrated with their software.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
See If I can explain this better I have a Roadie 28mm lens on a IQ 160 FF sensor it is equivalent to a 18mm in 35mm DSLR world, the lens on this sensor will only rise or fall 7mm. Okay same lens on a cropped IQ 140 is now a 22mm lens in 35mm DSLR world and now it will rise or fall 12mm. Now I don't have the 160 anymore but I want my 18mm back to do that I will have TO MOVE BACK 4mm of focal length. Doing that gives me the exact same framing as it would have with the 160mm 4mm closer. So know lets say I have the exact same framing of the 160 on the 140 because I moved back. I now have 12mm of movement instead of 7mm at the SAME FRAMING of the image. Bottom line I equaled the lens camera and focal length by moving back. Now everything would be the same but I have 12mm of rise or fall on this sensor and given the same framing now I would have a 5mm advantage of rise or fall on the crop sensor of the 140.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Your missing the point I no longer have the FF sensor of the 160 I sold it and now have a IQ 140 with a smaller sensor.
That was not directed at you, just pointing out to others that they can use your numbers too if they have a bigger sensor and crop down to 44x33
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Have you thought of checking out Panogear.

Definitely an option when there are walls behind you.

Quality is quite amazing and with the massive files sizes you get you can do some very good distortion correction in photoshop.




here is an image from the panogear forum...

10 portrait shots..... that's 360MP with your D800 and even more with your iq180



The unit is fully automatic and it's very integrated with their software.
Thanks Fred but Im really talking about tech cam movements on this one. Cool piece of gear though
 

gazwas

Active member
So know lets say I have the exact same framing of the 160 on the 140 because I moved back. I now have 12mm of movement instead of 7mm at the SAME FRAMING of the image. Bottom line I equaled the lens camera and focal length by moving back. Now everything would be the same but I have 12mm of rise or fall on this sensor and given the same framing now I would have a 5mm advantage of rise or fall on the crop sensor of the 140.
I think your looking at this too much from a 35mm equivalence perspective where by the lens is generally fixed. When discussing tech cameras and lens movements that relationship is a little different IMO. If talking about a fixed lens position then yes the FOV of your 28mm lens on a IQ140 is equivalent to a 22mm lens on 35mm vs 18mm on IQ160. However the 28mm has a field of view of 101° within its 70mm image circle which is fixed.

The fact that you can move your IQ140 more around this IC does not suddenly mean you have gained a 5mm advantage but rather the chip is smaller and needs moving more to cover the same IC compared to the IQ160. So in other words both the IQ140/160 with the Rodie 28mm are able to capture an image with a 101° FOV from the same position. Its just the IQ140 will need moving more due to its smaller dimensions.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Yes and good point . I'm just wondering what that really is . Maybe I'm only gaining like a 2mm advantage. This is the part that has me baffled a little what is the net net gain if any. If I had both backs I could actually see it . I feel though there is something just not totally sure what. Now when playing with the 140 and using rise it felt like a ton but what is the net net.
 
Gareth, of course, is exactly right. I can see there are some practicalities here though that are useful.

If we take Guy who has just traded down.
- Spend more on the back and less on the lens, say IQ160 + 32mm
- Or less on the back and more on the lens IQ140 + 28mm

Roughly the same with a straight shot and no movements (i.e. the 35mm equivalent comparison), but the 28 has a wider FoV from the same position and the tech cam allows the IQ140 owner to take advantage of it.

As most of the HRW lenses have a 90mm image circle, it tends to favour people who save the $$ and get a cheaper sensor then use shift.

- If you're happy that say 30 or 40MP can produce the IQ you need (i.e. for me print to 60x40) then you need fewer longer lenses and one wider high lp/mm lens then just crop. The cost of the fine wide lens is $$ and you don't save much, but no stitching, less frequent lens changes, more convenience.

- If you're happy to stitch, get a longer digaron type lens with a wider image circle and lower lp/mm, you can shoot a 4x5 equivalent, should easily achieve a true 100MP.
 
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