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What's an IQ180 worth?

monza

Active member
That's a good point. For that much money warranty might make the difference. Private sale for that much would make me very nervous. Warranty would alleviate that.
The one I sold includes a full year warranty, so in that sense it's really no different than buying a new back.
 

vjbelle

Well-known member
I can't believe that this thread is still going on.... its really silly. Tim, spend a thousand or so bucks on a warranty and put the thing on ebay with NR. It will sell and you will know what someone is willing to pay.
 

monza

Active member
Tim, I had an interested buyer in the UK I can refer to you. Not sure if he's still in the market or not.
 

FredBGG

Not Available
Also, I am just fed up with running so many systems and having a camera cupboard that looks better stocked than my dealership. And I want now to focus on one system, get a range of the best glass, learn it all inside out and hope to benefit from that too. FWIW I just sold my M9 too...
IMO that's a smart move. I have done the same to a certain point.
For digital I am going with one system. Nikon D800E and a good handful of lenses. Small, fast and gives me for all practical purposes the quality of MFD.
However it is ergonomically way better letting me concentrate on the subject, client and directing my shoots.

However I have chosen to keep two film cameras too. Fuji GX680 and 8x10 Schneider/Sinar. These three systems complement each other so well and do not really overlap. I think that a combination of digital and film is far more empowering and fun than multiple digital systems. I just find that high end 35mm DSLR is just too close to medium format.

Another reason why I think you are making a good choice is that Nikon offers so many different lens options. Not just focal length, but looks. The 85mm 1.4G for example has such a different look to the 105 macro or the tilt shift lenses.

Today I spoke with a director of Photography and photographer. He has Leica digital, MF digital, a 35mm DSLR system as well as Fuji 670 and Sinar 4x5. His motion picture work is commercial whereas his photography is fine art. While he delves into all aspects of digital in the end he tells me that what works best is his Fuji GF670 around his neck and his 4x5 in the back of his car.

I would not be surprised is after focusing on one digital system (that is a swiss army knife of modern photography) if you end up with a nice film camera to complement you digital. A different camera for something completely different.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
I do like the idea but after forays into film in recent years (once into a Leica MP and once into 4x5) I discovered that the problem is processing and film stock. The films I grew up with now either don't exist or are so hard to get processed well and quickly by a third party at reasonable cost. After a few weeks fumbling in blacked out cupboards I gave up on each occasion but rather interestingly, I had one shot on the MP that created more unsolicited interest than anything I've ever done... Loads of people emailing to say that they just HAD to know how it was done...

Hmmm...
IMO that's a smart move. I have done the same to a certain point.
For digital I am going with one system. Nikon D800E and a good handful of lenses. Small, fast and gives me for all practical purposes the quality of MFD.
However it is ergonomically way better letting me concentrate on the subject, client and directing my shoots.

However I have chosen to keep two film cameras too. Fuji GX680 and 8x10 Schneider/Sinar. These three systems complement each other so well and do not really overlap. I think that a combination of digital and film is far more empowering and fun than multiple digital systems. I just find that high end 35mm DSLR is just too close to medium format.

Another reason why I think you are making a good choice is that Nikon offers so many different lens options. Not just focal length, but looks. The 85mm 1.4G for example has such a different look to the 105 macro or the tilt shift lenses.

Today I spoke with a director of Photography and photographer. He has Leica digital, MF digital, a 35mm DSLR system as well as Fuji 670 and Sinar 4x5. His motion picture work is commercial whereas his photography is fine art. While he delves into all aspects of digital in the end he tells me that what works best is his Fuji GF670 around his neck and his 4x5 in the back of his car.

I would not be surprised is after focusing on one digital system (that is a swiss army knife of modern photography) if you end up with a nice film camera to complement you digital. A different camera for something completely different.
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
M10 with all the useful bits I hope... hope hope hope... mind you, nothing will make the new generation 35 Lux focus in anything vaguely like a planar manner :-(
 

FredBGG

Not Available
... I had one shot (on film I presume) on the MP that created more unsolicited interest than anything I've ever done... Loads of people emailing to say that they just HAD to know how it was done...

Hmmm...
Funny you mention that.... nearly all my images that get me unsolicited praise from new clients and agencies are shot on film....
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Yup, this particular shot on film had a lot of very nearly whites in it and those soft shouldered roll-offs that are so hard to get in digital made it look unusual.
 

f8orbust

Active member
Delay has its cost, too.
Too true - there's only three certain things in this world: death, taxes and that technology is going to get better and cheaper ... dang, think that was four.

Around the $25k mark is, IMO, what a private sale of a non-VAW (Value Added Warranty) IQ180 is worth at the moment . A UK dealer has one listed for £19k, so @ 80% (for a private deal) = £15k = US$24k - which is roughly what one sold for on eBay just recently.

Just out of interest, $25k is 57% of the new price at Calumet ($44k), so ... this would put a used, privately offered IQ160 with no VAW at $21k (Calumet new price: $37k), and a used IQ140 (Calumet new price: $22k) at $12.5k.

A trade for an Aptus 12? Really? The reason I would love an IQ is for the screen, focus mask etc. - I just couldn't imagine giving that up and going back to the previous iteration of user interface, especially if you'd be using this on your Cambo. It'd be like giving up the 50" Digital HD TV for a 12" analogue TV with a cathode ray tube and an aerial on the roof. As they say, never go back ... or should that be, never go digital back? My, how we laughed.

You might get more if you wait, and, say, a new body appears at Photokina, and there's an 'upsurge' in interest ... but I don't think so ... or the opposite happens and Canon launch their 150MP DSLR with 64 stops of dynamic range and a new 20-500mm f1.8 T/S lens. Ok that second part is a long shot, but you can bet your last buck that Canon has taken note of the phenomenal interest in the D800 and that a high MP/high DR camera is on the drawing board. I think there's a fundamental shift taking place right now, with many pros getting the quality they need without having to lumber around 100lbs of oversized and over priced gear ... and they can have a couple of back-up bodies as well (anybody have a back-up IQ180?).

So, if someone offers you $25k for your IQ180, and you've made your mind up to sell, I'd think long and hard before I sent them packing. Maybe better to take a shower now, than a bath in 6 months time.
 

Carboat

New member
All of this predication of Phase One's demise seem a bit like the reports of Twain's death. One would think that they have anticipated some of this. It will be critical to see something exciting from them at Photokina. I can't imagine they would not pull out all the stops, show or at least discuss something that will let their reign continue. But I would have thought we would have seen an M10 by now not just M9m.
 

f8orbust

Active member
I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting the demise of Phase One, or Hasselblad come to that.

Rather, the days of these companies saying 'We've got a new product, the price is $50,000, give us your credit card as usual' maybe are on the way out. And about time too.

That said, for all I know, Phase/Hasselblad sell 99% of all their imaging devices to government departments/large corporations/universities/retired venture capital CEOs etc. - in which case the price isn't such an issue, and they can merrily carry on doing what they've been doing for the last decade or so ... and happily ignore whining photographers like me.
 

monza

Active member
Technology marches on, but it marches more quickly in the larger markets. There are simply far more sensors being manufactured for high-end DSLRs than for medium format backs.

A similar situation a few years ago: Apple was using IBM and Motorola PowerPC CPUs in their machines, but at only a small percentage of the total market, the engineering R&D budget was far lower than Intel. Intel was manufacturing CPU volumes which were many orders of magnitude larger than IBM/Mot. The technological development was far faster for Intel, with the exception of one short-lived period where IBM/Mot had a power and performance advantage. This was overcome within a few short months. Apple was having to spend engineering resources on elaborate water cooling solutions for their high-end machines, among other things. When Jobs switched Apple over to Intel (which itself was an absolutely amazing technical accomplishment) suddenly Apple was no longer fighting a clock speed battle against Windows machines, or fighting against a power advantage. They were able to level the playing field against Windows machines so it was no longer a case of creating elaborate marketing campaigns explaining how a lower clock speed could have better performance.

Similarly, manufacturers of medium format sensors sell far fewer units than big guns in the consumer space, so the bar will move far more quickly in the DSLR market. It's inevitable that the performance will become closer and closer to larger sensors which simply cannot progress as fast because the medium format R&D budget is miniscule in comparison.
 
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