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Thread: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

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    P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    I'm thinking of moving from my P45+ to a P65+. I understand the pixel size on the P65+ is smaller than the P45+.

    My question is whether my range of left/right shift with a wide angle lens (currently a 35mmSK Digitar) will be less with the P65+ than with the P45+.

    Thanks for any information given,
    Bob

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Bob

    I switched to a P65 about a year ago upgrading from a P45+ that I had been using since I first got the WRS several years ago. One of the lenses I use is the SK 35mm.

    I never really gave it much though until you asked and I'll admit to not being able to say one way or the other. Whenever I set up for a pano shot I routinely set it up slightly wider (going slightly wider right and left) and crop the image once I have it together.

    Regarding single image files I'd have to say we do loose "some" and I remember noticing the difference in the area coverage while I still had the P45+ to compare to.

    What I also remember is seeing a great improvement in the image file when comparing the two backs. Different sensors and as good as I thought the P45+ was the P65+ is that much better.

    I remember doing a comparison between the to backs and reporting on it either here on my blog.

    All this is from a landscape photographers' point of view.

    Don
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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    With the 35mm Schneider, on a P65+, you can expect the following:

    This is at apertures of F8 to F16. Any less and corner softness gets extreme any more and diffraction starts to show.

    Left or right shift: This is with the Physical Center filter installed on the lens. For this lens the CF is a must.

    10mm, no problems, with smearing or color sat, very slight magenta cast at edges which is totally removable with LCC

    12mm, you will start to see a bit of detail smearing, and color sat will start to fall off. Magenta cast will show on far side of shift pretty much in a bar. It will be totally recoverable with the LCC

    15mm, Really not useable IMO. extreme detail smearing from 12mm to 15mm, quite a bit of color/sat fall off (some of it is recoverable), extreme Magenta shift showing as a dark bar along the outer shifted edge.

    Past 15mm, really not useable.

    If your subject has a solid color in it, like a blue sky or white building then the magenta cast on a 12mm shift may or may not be workable. I have found it very subject dependent.

    With rise or fall, you can expect just a little bit more from this lens on the P65+/160. For some reason, you get just a bit more it seems with rise and fall.

    For my work, the 35mm on the P65+/160 will not allow enough shift for a true pano. @ a useable amount of only 10mm to each side. You may be able to get quite a bit more with the P45+. When I tested the 43mm Schneider on my P45+, I was able to use it easily to 20mm of shift right and left on the P45+, however on my IQ160, it's max is about 17mm and that is push.

    Paul

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Don,

    If you do have the link or know where I can find that comparison with samples I would be greatly interested in seeing it. I currently have a P45+ and have been using it with the Lee big stopper to do 10 minute exposures and loving it. I do understand that the same desired effect can be achieved in the 2 minute timeframe of a P65+ and am wondering if the files from that are THAT much better than my P45+ which I already love and rely on.
    Rick Rose
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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    Bob


    What I also remember is seeing a great improvement in the image file when comparing the two backs. Different sensors and as good as I thought the P45+ was the P65+ is that much better.

    Don
    Well that's pretty much the real bottom line for me, Don. Thanks so much; now I have to go scrounge up some dough....
    Best,
    Bob

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    No question I love the p40,P65, IQ140 and IQ 160 far better than the P45 . If your on a tech cam also you can stay with a crop sensor if you wanted. Also if your on a tech cam the IQ series is really helpful. Bob seriously you can sell your P45 pretty easy here since some folks still like the long exposure back. Little plug here but my IQ 140 is on the B&S which is awesome on a tech cam. For the 5/6 k difference over the P45 it's a great option for you.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerimar View Post
    Don,

    If you do have the link or know where I can find that comparison with samples I would be greatly interested in seeing it. I currently have a P45+ and have been using it with the Lee big stopper to do 10 minute exposures and loving it. I do understand that the same desired effect can be achieved in the 2 minute timeframe of a P65+ and am wondering if the files from that are THAT much better than my P45+ which I already love and rely on.
    Okay nobody has ever accused me of being a professional reviewer; I share information that I learn from testing and getting to known a system. That said I did a 3-part blog in 2011 with the first part here.

    Don
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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    No question I love the p40,P65, IQ140 and IQ 160 far better than the P45 . If your on a tech cam also you can stay with a crop sensor if you wanted. Also if your on a tech cam the IQ series is really helpful. Bob seriously you can sell your P45 pretty easy here since some folks still like the long exposure back. Little plug here but my IQ 140 is on the B&S which is awesome on a tech cam. For the 5/6 k difference over the P45 it's a great option for you.
    I don't see it on BS Guy. I think you're right. Since I only use it on a tech cam, the crop factor doesn't really matter since I can only shift/rise fall so far anyway; is that what you're thinking?

    Best,
    Bob

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    I use the 35 XL extensively with my IQ160 as almost my 'standard' lens with the Alpa STC. I can shoot better panos with the 47XL but typically I'll shoot wider with the 35XL and just crop (partially because I'm lazy plus avoids unnecessary lens changes really).

    I'd agree with Paul that you really need to use the CF filter with this lens to minimize LCC issues on a full size back and generally I stick to 10mm or less of shift with it on the IQ. It quickly gets ugly if you go much beyond that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerimar View Post
    I currently have a P45+ and have been using it with the Lee big stopper to do 10 minute exposures and loving it. I do understand that the same desired effect can be achieved in the 2 minute timeframe of a P65+ and am wondering if the files from that are THAT much better than my P45+ which I already love and rely on.
    A couple of things. The P65+, like the IQ160 is basically limited to 1 minute for 'clean' long exposures, depending upon temperature and heat soak. You definitely can go beyond that (and I do) but you will get increasing digital chroma noise that is objectionable in most colour images, although I find that for true long exposure shots (2-4 mins) that these clean up with PS dust/scratch filter and the C1 Pro noise processing. However, it will be a LOT noisier that you are used to with the P45+ (or other Xpose+ backs) and you definitely won't be able to go to 10mins unless you want to deal with extreme noise. Essentially you get hot pixels - luckily they're a lot better in the file and processed file than the back LCD will show you!
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Quote Originally Posted by rga View Post
    I don't see it on BS Guy. I think you're right. Since I only use it on a tech cam, the crop factor doesn't really matter since I can only shift/rise fall so far anyway; is that what you're thinking?

    Best,
    Bob
    Yes exactly with the 35xl it's a nice back to have with lots of movements. I think it's a 26mm lens in 35 FF Nikon / canon world which it a nice focal length with stitching you should get to like a 21mm easy. But yes crop factor really is meaningless on tech cams except focal lengths change. I went to the 160 because the crop bothered me with finder on the DF but with tech cam only it was a easy cost savings decision about 16k that is to back down to the IQ 140. File wise 20 more mpx when your at 40 mpx already was not earth shattering.
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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)


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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Thank you!

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I use the 35 XL extensively with my IQ160 as almost my 'standard' lens with the Alpa STC. I can shoot better panos with the 47XL but typically I'll shoot wider with the 35XL and just crop (partially because I'm lazy plus avoids unnecessary lens changes really).

    I'd agree with Paul that you really need to use the CF filter with this lens to minimize LCC issues on a full size back and generally I stick to 10mm or less of shift with it on the IQ. It quickly gets ugly if you go much beyond that.



    A couple of things. The P65+, like the IQ160 is basically limited to 1 minute for 'clean' long exposures, depending upon temperature and heat soak. You definitely can go beyond that (and I do) but you will get increasing digital chroma noise that is objectionable in most colour images, although I find that for true long exposure shots (2-4 mins) that these clean up with PS dust/scratch filter and the C1 Pro noise processing. However, it will be a LOT noisier that you are used to with the P45+ (or other Xpose+ backs) and you definitely won't be able to go to 10mins unless you want to deal with extreme noise. Essentially you get hot pixels - luckily they're a lot better in the file and processed file than the back LCD will show you!
    I think I will be holding onto my P45+ H mount back for a while then, as it works for my needs and it can handle long exposures well. I have it all rigged up with a CH910 and DC power with a few 7200 mah batteries to keep it going for quite some time if I have to

    Not to mention the cost of the upgrade is just too much for my budget anytime soon… saving up for a H2 and P45+ being 20 was quite a feat in its own but I am loving it compared to my 5d2…
    Rick Rose
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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    Graham:

    Quick question on the Stuck pixels on the 160. Have you tried opening the images in LR4? LR is strange in that sometimes on a raw file from Canon or Nikon it will remove most of the stuck pixels as it loads the file. I know this is true for 5D MKII, 1D MKIV, and D700 files. It doesn't seem to do this on Sony Nex-7 raw and I have not tried it on any 160 files. Just curious if you have as if LR sees them and takes them out it's a great time saver.

    With Capture One I have used the dust/hot pixel tool, however it used to max out at 100, which most times was not enough.

    Paul

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    Re: P65+ And WA Lens (tech cam)

    When I've discussed the SK 35 XL performance on this forum before I got to the conclusion that it has about 75mm high quality image circle at f/11, and the last 15 is not so good due to field curvature. It will depend on your need of pixel-peep quality and on the scene (say only sky in the shifted corners) if you can make use of the last 15 or not.

    If you need a larger high quality image circle there is the Rodenstock 32mm Digaron-W, but it costs a lot and has some issues with weight and robustness (it can quite easily get bent since the copal shutters are not designed for such heavy lens elements). Since the P65+ has a larger sensor than P45+ you may be satisfied with the FOV that a 40mm provides (almost the same as 35mm on P45+), and then you can get a Rodenstock 40mm Digaron-W which performs very well and has a nicer price and weight than the 32mm.

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