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Thread: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

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    H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Hi there,

    I'm almost finishing a deal ( shameless plug - go to the b&s and get my wate lol ) that allows me to enter the MF world, via a H3DII50 with a couple of lens...

    However, the promotion to upgrade the H3D to H4D spec ( sans sensor ) has ended, so I do not have True Focus thingie - which to be honest, it is not the end of the world. would be nice to have, oh well.

    Few questions, please correct me if I'm wrong ( I've been reading and educating myself on MF like nuts the last weeks ) , what I will loose for getting a H3D vs H4D :

    - H4D has True Focus - not a deal breaker for me
    - H4D has improved LCD
    - H4D supoosely has better high iso perforance ? commetns are vague here, please help
    - H4D has improved writing speed for CF cards
    - H4D has faster AF - comments again vague here, please help


    So if the differences are mainly this, I'm game with the H3D.

    Its mainly to do landscapes and portraits but.. and here lies the big but - I like to walk around with monopod and handheld - paying attention to shutterspeeds is crucial, I know the whole photoskills will have to evolve - I'm currently on the other end of "forgiveness" and "handholdability" - Leica M9

    Didnt Hasselblad released a firmware to upgrade the in-camera ISO for at least 1 stop ? ie theroetical limit of H3DII50 is 50-400, was it upgraded to 800 in camera ? Or can only be used in Phocus ?

    I'm really scratching my head here -I would love to jump onto the MF bandwagon, always lusted it and I want to improve my photography - but fear that hasselblad will make me force to carry a tripod all the time - seem some reports that are dubious in this regard. I'm currently aware that to extract the perfect imagem tripod is a must - alas, hasselblad and even Leica ( although everyone frowns when putting a Leica on a tripod, its possible, but its the equivalent of bringing 3 strippers to the church charity ball )...

    I've seen crazy ones here bringing Leica S2 as vacations cameras and such... what about Hasselblad maniacs that lug their cameras happily around ? I dont mind brining a monopod everywhere but I'm fearing about portability.. Im long days Canon and Nikon high end user, then upgraded to Leica but Hasselblad has always been on my line of sight - and now I have the opportinity to access a H3dII50 + 50-110 for a very very nice price and at a pristine condition ( although my M9 and Nocti have to go ).

    H3D people step up push me from the abyss !

    Another question and request :

    - in spec sheet says only 2GB cards can be used - I'm guessing this is totally un-updated and current 8 and 16gb ( and more ) can be used in H3DII50 right ?

    - can someone post a ISO 200, 400 and 800 shot of H3D50 ?

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Hello Proenca !
    Hasselblad has released a new firmware (R361) that allows 128Go CF support, 128 second exposure time enabled, Live Video stability improved. But it still being a 400 Iso sensor and no 800iso option I think.
    Why don't you buy a 39 ? It's the same sensor size, with 800iso (but forget 800iso if you want very clean images...).

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosphere View Post
    Hello Proenca !
    Hasselblad has released a new firmware (R361) that allows 128Go CF support, 128 second exposure time enabled, Live Video stability improved. But it still being a 400 Iso sensor and no 800iso option I think.
    Why don't you buy a 39 ? It's the same sensor size, with 800iso (but forget 800iso if you want very clean images...).
    well, reason being that the H3DII50 that is being offered is a very good price - dont mind the extra resolution at all

    how clean the files are at 400 iso ? usable ? good ? doable ? ofc 50-100 will be prefered, but are iso 400 noisy ?

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    i only use 50Iso, sometimes 100iso but it's quite rare. In H4D in think you can use 800iso, 400iso... in H3D it's an old sensor.

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    The member Smoking Camera has taken his Hasselblad travelling and used handheld. I believe Fotografz is another member that uses a blad a la mode. I use my Pentax 645D all the time handheld and with shutter speeds below 1/100s. I also use the Pentax at 1600 ISO--it's not just noise, but the pixel density as noise does not impact the image the same way as a sensor with fewer pixels. I don't know how well the mirror is dampened in the Hasselblad cameras, but I can't see why you can't sell your M9 and just use the blad. And if you add a monopod to the equation, then I think the blad will be nice walk-around camera.

    MFD is not just a marketing tool to sell tripods.

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    If memory serves me, the H4D/50 is simply a newer body with the same sensor as the H3D-II/50. The 50 sensor is newer technology compared to the 39. All of the H3D-IIs jumped a full ISO stop some time ago ... the 39 and 50 provide a range from 50 to 800. 800 is usable if exposed correctly, and you are not making huge enlargements. When the firmware was changed, 800 looked like 400 used to look, and 400 looked like 200, etc.

    The differences are:

    Double resolution LCD on the H4D
    In camera spirit level (LCD and in viewfinder)
    New control layout
    One step focus check
    True Focus/APL ... not a deal breaker unless you have tried it

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2...tasheet_v5.pdf

    You do not have to use Phocus except for tethered work. Adobe Light Room supports the Hasselblad file format.

    I use a SanDisk 32 Gig CF.

    Hand holding the H camera is often easier than a typical high resolution pro 35mm DSLR (unless it has stabilized lenses on it). The H is a Leaf Shutter system so less shutter shock, and the mirror can be programed with a micro delay to avoid mirror slap.

    If you plan on hand-holding the 50, get a hand-strap ... and do not be afraid to use a monopod if you want to make large prints.

    The camera is bigger than most 35mm DSLRs and certainly bigger than a M9 even with a Noctilux ... and with the big-assed 50-110 is quite a hand-full. I use the much smaller 50, 100 and 150mm for mobile stuff. I also use a heavy duty elastic "bouncy" shoulder strap for walking around.

    -Marc

    BTW, the trade in promotion is still valid ... it runs to Sept. 18, 2012 ... no reason to NOT get the H4D/50

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    I'll second the camera is usable handheld and on vacations. I am going on a 3 week vacation and am bringing my h2, 50-110 and 80 only. The micro delay on the mirror of about 100ms seems to remove any shake (noticeable improvement when I first tried it)

    The 50-110 is quite a handful but a very useful lens, I suggest tripod or monopod usage with that lens as after a day of walking around and shooting it gets heavy.. not to mention I believe it is suggested to not let it hang lens down or have it mounted lens down in the bag due to the weight and it has problems and such.. I usually have no lens or the 80 mounted and put the 50-110 on when I need it..

    As for a walk around setup I really love using the 80 with the HVM waist level finder, because it is all old school, manual, and the focusing screen with the magnifying loop is even larger than before, and personally I like the perspective and framing guidelines I follow when using it.

    I typically bust out the 50-110 either in the studio and mount it on my tripod with a RRS L bracket, and bellows hood as that lens seems to love flaring in the studio without it.. then use the same hood with 4x6 and 4x4 filters when shooting landscapes. As for walking around with it all day you will sleep well that night.

    My suggestion would be to buy at least 1 of the primes with a focal length you like to make it much more manageable as a walk around camera. I have the 80 because it's the smallest lens in the system, and it is significantly cheaper used (picked mine up for $750 off craigslist)
    Rick Rose
    www.RickrPhoto.com
    HasselPhase

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The member Smoking Camera has taken his Hasselblad travelling and used handheld. I believe Fotografz is another member that uses a blad a la mode. I use my Pentax 645D all the time handheld and with shutter speeds below 1/100s. I also use the Pentax at 1600 ISO--it's not just noise, but the pixel density as noise does not impact the image the same way as a sensor with fewer pixels. I don't know how well the mirror is dampened in the Hasselblad cameras, but I can't see why you can't sell your M9 and just use the blad. And if you add a monopod to the equation, then I think the blad will be nice walk-around camera.

    MFD is not just a marketing tool to sell tripods.
    thanks for the report ; I'm not expecting the glad to be a "tad bigger M9" or to be the same in compactness or even handhold ability terms.. but its refreshing to see reports like this, thanks for sharing

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerimar View Post
    I'll second the camera is usable handheld and on vacations. I am going on a 3 week vacation and am bringing my h2, 50-110 and 80 only. The micro delay on the mirror of about 100ms seems to remove any shake (noticeable improvement when I first tried it)

    The 50-110 is quite a handful but a very useful lens, I suggest tripod or monopod usage with that lens as after a day of walking around and shooting it gets heavy.. not to mention I believe it is suggested to not let it hang lens down or have it mounted lens down in the bag due to the weight and it has problems and such.. I usually have no lens or the 80 mounted and put the 50-110 on when I need it..

    As for a walk around setup I really love using the 80 with the HVM waist level finder, because it is all old school, manual, and the focusing screen with the magnifying loop is even larger than before, and personally I like the perspective and framing guidelines I follow when using it.

    I typically bust out the 50-110 either in the studio and mount it on my tripod with a RRS L bracket, and bellows hood as that lens seems to love flaring in the studio without it.. then use the same hood with 4x6 and 4x4 filters when shooting landscapes. As for walking around with it all day you will sleep well that night.

    My suggestion would be to buy at least 1 of the primes with a focal length you like to make it much more manageable as a walk around camera. I have the 80 because it's the smallest lens in the system, and it is significantly cheaper used (picked mine up for $750 off craigslist)
    thanks Rick ! I'm buying the H3D with the 50-110 and also the 80 ; as a ( soon to be I hope ) Leica user, I 'm more used and even fond of single primes that zooms , although everything I read about the 50-110 is nothing short of stellar.

    28 or 35 is def on my list and I have to buy/rent/steal the 100 2.2 : the images I see from it are just glorious... makes Leica bokeh looks bad :P

    Funny enough, I'm also planning on getting the HVM - i found one used, good condition and quite cheap ( 150 usd ) so I thought - why not ?

    glad to see one more to bring the hasselblad out of the studio

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    If memory serves me, the H4D/50 is simply a newer body with the same sensor as the H3D-II/50. The 50 sensor is newer technology compared to the 39. All of the H3D-IIs jumped a full ISO stop some time ago ... the 39 and 50 provide a range from 50 to 800. 800 is usable if exposed correctly, and you are not making huge enlargements. When the firmware was changed, 800 looked like 400 used to look, and 400 looked like 200, etc.

    The differences are:

    Double resolution LCD on the H4D
    In camera spirit level (LCD and in viewfinder)
    New control layout
    One step focus check
    True Focus/APL ... not a deal breaker unless you have tried it

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/2...tasheet_v5.pdf

    You do not have to use Phocus except for tethered work. Adobe Light Room supports the Hasselblad file format.

    I use a SanDisk 32 Gig CF.

    Hand holding the H camera is often easier than a typical high resolution pro 35mm DSLR (unless it has stabilized lenses on it). The H is a Leaf Shutter system so less shutter shock, and the mirror can be programed with a micro delay to avoid mirror slap.

    If you plan on hand-holding the 50, get a hand-strap ... and do not be afraid to use a monopod if you want to make large prints.

    The camera is bigger than most 35mm DSLRs and certainly bigger than a M9 even with a Noctilux ... and with the big-assed 50-110 is quite a hand-full. I use the much smaller 50, 100 and 150mm for mobile stuff. I also use a heavy duty elastic "bouncy" shoulder strap for walking around.

    -Marc

    BTW, the trade in promotion is still valid ... it runs to Sept. 18, 2012 ... no reason to NOT get the H4D/50
    Marc, first thanks for replying - you are one of the culprits for me to lust after MF, I do follow your posts and images for a bit

    Again, I plan on buying ( later on, later on... ) 35 & 150 primes ( 80 comes withe my camera ) to keep things a bit more manageable... I owned 1DS with 24-70 and such, so I guess weight wise will be identical - there was a "neoprene" strap that I discovered that REALLY helped with that but oh well..

    For the True Focus... oh well, I'm hoping to get into MFD with all the bells and whistles - heck, its a H3DII50 ! I would like to have True Focus but the trade in promotion, at least here in Portugal ( I called already ) its only valid to trade in your camera and they give me a brand new H4D50 - which is nice. Not so nice is the 12k euros + VAT for this.

    I bet True Focus is handy to have, but paying 12k euros ( 15k usd ) plus taxes for that, well.. erm... again, I don't do photography for a living, so even the fact that I'm buying a H3D50 is a dream come true - I can live without TF... for now

    glad to hear the CF updates ; regarding the firmware, do I need to send the camera and back to Hasselblad or can I do it myself ?

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosphere View Post
    i only use 50Iso, sometimes 100iso but it's quite rare. In H4D in think you can use 800iso, 400iso... in H3D it's an old sensor.
    thanks mate ; if it makes a difference, I'm buying a H3DII not I - I believe that the H3DII has a different sensor than the I

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    Re: H3DII50 vs H4D50 ? apart from TF ?

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    Marc, first thanks for replying - you are one of the culprits for me to lust after MF, I do follow your posts and images for a bit

    Again, I plan on buying ( later on, later on... ) 35 & 150 primes ( 80 comes withe my camera ) to keep things a bit more manageable... I owned 1DS with 24-70 and such, so I guess weight wise will be identical - there was a "neoprene" strap that I discovered that REALLY helped with that but oh well..

    For the True Focus... oh well, I'm hoping to get into MFD with all the bells and whistles - heck, its a H3DII50 ! I would like to have True Focus but the trade in promotion, at least here in Portugal ( I called already ) its only valid to trade in your camera and they give me a brand new H4D50 - which is nice. Not so nice is the 12k euros + VAT for this.

    I bet True Focus is handy to have, but paying 12k euros ( 15k usd ) plus taxes for that, well.. erm... again, I don't do photography for a living, so even the fact that I'm buying a H3D50 is a dream come true - I can live without TF... for now

    glad to hear the CF updates ; regarding the firmware, do I need to send the camera and back to Hasselblad or can I do it myself ?
    All firmware updates for camera and back can be done by the user and are available on the Hasselblad website. You need the latest version of Phocus software installed on your computer ... which is also free on the Hasselblad website. Be sure to register on the site so you are informed of any updates, various shooting tips and new information.

    I wouldn't pay $15K just to get True Focus either. The H3D-II is a great camera as is.

    While the HC35 is a very nice lens, it is an older optical design and may be updated soon ... I would recommend the newer HCD/28 over it for wide angle work which will sing on the 50 meg camera. It is also the better choice if in the future you secure a TS/1.5 which has a 1.5X magnification factor.

    The real bargain is the HC150/3.2 version 1 ... while the newer 150N is slightly better, for that focal length the difference is hard to see, especially for portraits. However, since you are getting the 50-110 you may want to consider the HC-210/4 for your tele option ... the 210 is a killer lens that not many know about ... beautiful bokeh, retina slicing acuity in the in focus areas with a gentle roll off.

    BTW, the H camera is fairly easy to travel with because the viewfinder can be removed to make the over-all camera easier to pack ... be sure you get the covers for the viewfinder, camera top, and back with the kit if possible. I fly with this camera all the time and take it on with me in a relatively small bag.

    Have fun, and good luck However, luck favors the prepared ... read the instructions front to end ... these cameras do a lot more than most know about even current owners, and it is easy to accomplish most anything if you know what those possibilities are ... pay special attention to setting up the one button, custom white balance function which is the easiest to use of any camera I've ever shot with.

    -Marc

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