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Thread: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

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    Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Priced at 3276$ would you call this a good deal? To be honest I only want it for the sensor, so I can use a technical camera. My D800E is stellar and will be my go to camera. But it does not have the look of a view camera and the selection of tilt/shift lenses is to be honest bad. I have the money for it, but I don't know if I should spend it. It seems to be a hassle using such an old sensor, no liveview for focusing etc. Then there is the LCC issues and such. Well, sorry for this post. I just need some pointers.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrick View Post
    Priced at 3276$ would you call this a good deal? To be honest I only want it for the sensor, so I can use a technical camera. My D800E is stellar and will be my go to camera. But it does not have the look of a view camera and the selection of tilt/shift lenses is to be honest bad. I have the money for it, but I don't know if I should spend it. It seems to be a hassle using such an old sensor, no liveview for focusing etc. Then there is the LCC issues and such. Well, sorry for this post. I just need some pointers.
    One of those cases where I think it's best to start with asking what will fit your needs best and then looking for the best place/price/way of getting it. Rather than finding something that is a good price and then seeing if it will fit your needs.

    A D800E and Aptus 22 on a tech camera are VERY different systems; they are really only comparable in so far as they are in the same ballpark of pricing.

    Best option for you I think is to rent an Aptus 22 and a tech camera for a few days and go shoot real pictures and see:
    - How you like the shooting process. It's slower and less easy, but it's also more traditional, considered, mechanical, and tactile. So depending on your personal preferences you may love it or hate it.
    - How long it takes you to get the final result you want (including capture and post processing)
    - The final image quality of both in your typical usage (whatever print size/media/style/processing you typically use)

    A dealer like us (Digital Transitions) can do a rental of that equipment (all needed components and accessories) like that with the cost of the rental credited towards purchase. That means either you spend some money to find out that it's not right for you (in my opinion that's a great outcome - you can put the question to rest in your mind with minimal hassle/cost) or you find out that it is something you want and the final purchase price is still the same.

    Aptus 22 is slow, "only" 22 megapixels with one shot (a 4-shot in-image-circle-stitch would place it at roughly 60mp), limited ISO and max exposure length and is "old". But looking at the images it has beautiful color, tonality, dynamic range (both technically and aesthetically), and works very well on a tech camera (no wakeup, low color cast) and a large sensor.

    If the genre of tech camera shooting appeals to you and you have a limited budget this is a great place to start.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Thank you for your answer Doug. I would love to be able to rent a system for a few days, but here in Norway I don't think it is possible. The only 2 dealers whom did this in Norway have closed down. So ultimately I will have to find out as much as possible before I purchase anything.

    This is why I have started reading up on viewcameras. I find them very appealing. The idea of using groundglass for focusing does not repel me at all. I like to take good time with my shooting. I once read a sentence like this "A composition which was took 10 minutes to compose is better than a composition which took 30 seconds". I think viewcameras are for me, and they are indeed very cheap in the second hand market. I could always purchase the camera and shoot film. I was however born in the digital age and I have never used film, so it could be interesting. We will see.

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    Senior Member Chris Giles's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    That's a decent price for an Aptus 22.

    Just make sure the seller confirms there are no focus issues.

    I bought one of the forum and the back needed servicing and adjustment which cost me $1000

    But then I sold the back alone for $4500 so made that back.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Giles View Post
    That's a decent price for an Aptus 22.

    Just make sure the seller confirms there are no focus issues.

    I bought one of the forum and the back needed servicing and adjustment which cost me $1000

    But then I sold the back alone for $4500 so made that back.

    There are Aptus 22 units that cost just a bit more than that and come with full warranty and complete support. Focus issues aren't the only thing to worry about...


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix View Post
    There are Aptus 22 units that cost just a bit more than that and come with full warranty and complete support. Focus issues aren't the only thing to worry about...


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Well, the OP is asking about a unit that costs $3.300.
    And your price for the same kit is $5.700.
    That is a huge difference, not just a bit more.
    And you are in USA and he is in Norway.

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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrick View Post
    Thank you for your answer Doug. I would love to be able to rent a system for a few days, but here in Norway I don't think it is possible. The only 2 dealers whom did this in Norway have closed down. So ultimately I will have to find out as much as possible before I purchase anything.
    Well, that's the problem that many of us have, no dealers in my country. That's the ONLY reason I haven't bought DMF yet. I don't even have a problem with buying DMF, testing it for few months in my working environment and then selling it, if it doesn't work for me. But, it looks like it's so hard to sell DMF these days, especially in a country where nobody uses it. And it looks like you are losing a lot of money in this kind of transaction.
    I will go for a trip to visit a dealer far, far away. But, I can't simulate my working environment in their store. I'm afraid, I will not be able to make a decision that way.
    When D800E came out, I was making a decision about purchase just for a few minutes. Since I had nothing to lose. It's so easy to sell D800E.
    I hope DMF dealers and manufacturers come up with some kind of solution for our problem.

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by Willow View Post
    Well, the OP is asking about a unit that costs $3.300.
    And your price for the same kit is $5.700.
    That is a huge difference, not just a bit more.
    And you are in USA and he is in Norway.

    I understand your point, but I wasn't trying to be literal. It's a huge difference if you only have $3,300. It may or may not represent a huge difference to some. We frequently have purchasers who have considered a purchase from an end user that is $1,000 or $2,000 less, but ultimately decide to purchase from us instead.

    Just providing perspective to those who state it as a "good price". A firewire board for a digital back that needs replacement typically costs around $2,400. That is but 1 single item that a purchaser can run into when buying an older digital back from an end user with no warranty, no support, no guaranteed establishment of the condition of the product down to details that an end user seller will never know or bother to convey. I think it is important that buyers understand all the ramifications of their great deals.

    BTW, it doesn't matter if he is in Norway. We have clients all over the world. There is no reason someone from Norway or anywhere else on Earth cannot purchase one of the Aptus 22 kits we have in stock.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Steve, you're forgetting the import duties which would add a hefty chunk to the total bill. Does CI (or another dealer) offer a test service to see if a back is within factory specs? If someone outside the US bought a back from you, and it needed servicing, how would it be handled? Manufacturers generally want repair to be handled through local dealers.

    Kumar

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by FromJapan View Post
    Steve, you're forgetting the import duties which would add a hefty chunk to the total bill. Does CI (or another dealer) offer a test service to see if a back is within factory specs? If someone outside the US bought a back from you, and it needed servicing, how would it be handled? Manufacturers generally want repair to be handled through local dealers.

    Kumar

    I am not forgetting them, but that varies country to country. Also, the dollar vs other currencies can sometimes be in favor or not in favor and offset the addition of those fees. So there are variances. Regardless, we still have many international purchasers.

    Every pre-owned digital back we sell goes through a (roughly) 50 item certification inspection and testing process and always ships with a minimum of 6 months warranty (as well as the original accessory items normally included with a new unit). In the event a client needed hardware repair, in most cases the digital back is going to go back to the manufacturer facility for factory repair anyway, no matter where they are located (there are some exceptions). But even where there is local hardware repair availability, the local option then still exists, regardless of whether it was purchased from Capture Integration. In any event, we still are the primary participant in the diagnosis of the issue to determine whether it needs to go in for repair or not, no matter where they, for as long as they own the product.

    More importantly, support is typically 20% - 30% hardware repair/issues and 70% - 80% software issues/user settings. The vast majority of our support cases are resolved without the digital back ever being shipped anywhere. Far more critical to the end user are the knowledge, dedication and experience of the supporting company, the communication options available from the company, and the accessibility and response of the company. In today's world, physical proximity is vastly overrated.


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller

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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    When I bought my Betterlight scanback from a US seller, I asked him whether he would be willing to send it to Betterlight for a complete checkup, to ensure that it was in spec. The testing fee would be paid by me if it was in spec, and the seller would pay it as well as for any repairs if it wasn't. It was, and I gladly paid the extra $200 or so. Does CI offer such a service?

    When I needed my H20 repaired, Doug Peterson (with CI at that time) offered to get it done, but Phase One said I had to go through a Japanese dealer. Would the situation have been different if I had purchased the back from CI?

    Kumar

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    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
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    Re: Leaf Aptus 22 and Mamiya 645II

    Quote Originally Posted by FromJapan View Post
    When I bought my Betterlight scanback from a US seller, I asked him whether he would be willing to send it to Betterlight for a complete checkup, to ensure that it was in spec. The testing fee would be paid by me if it was in spec, and the seller would pay it as well as for any repairs if it wasn't. It was, and I gladly paid the extra $200 or so. Does CI offer such a service?

    When I needed my H20 repaired, Doug Peterson (with CI at that time) offered to get it done, but Phase One said I had to go through a Japanese dealer. Would the situation have been different if I had purchased the back from CI?

    Kumar

    Certainly. We would absolutely be able to send in someone's unit for an inspection by the manufacturer. Our involvement in this may be limited to units that are purchased from our company. Manufacturers necessarily have a preference for a) the local supplier to provide service and/or b) the company that the product was purchased from to provide service. There are exceptions.

    This is understandable - it is unfortunate, but there are few companies that have the capability of Capture Integration to remotely support clients no matter where they are located. As a result, they prefer local as opposed to some dealer somewhere else that may have a "great buy" for them, but fail utterly in supporting them. Totally logical.

    Short of actually cracking open the digital back in a clean room, we perform a very comparable inspection process to what a manufacturer would put the product through, but we can offer that to a client anytime, should they choose.

    BTW - we are an ever evolving company, and we have some great new team members that have brought their own expertise to our challenging table setting.

    http://www.captureintegration.com/our-company/who-we-are/


    Steve Hendrix
    Capture Integration
    Steve Hendrix, Sales Manager, www.captureintegration.com (e-mail Me)
    Digital Cam: Phase One | Leaf | Leica | Sinar Authorized Reseller
    TechCam: Alpa | Cambo | Arca Swiss | Sinar Authorized Reseller
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