Site Sponsors
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 51 to 100 of 114

Thread: H3DII39 or P45+

  1. #51
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Phila./NY
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Kumar,

    Well Phase One essentially does this for less than what an adapter costswhen you purchase the VA warranty the platform swap is included along with a three warranty, next business day swap-out along with other accessories for a nominal cost of $3000 additional.

    If you are out of warranty or have a classic one, the list price is $2500 for a swap-out to a back that will pick up your warranty (if left) and give a factory re-certified unit with a similar if not lower number of captures.

    Maybe it should be considered. Steve are you listening?

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

  2. #52
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Geesh. Lance and I have equally little to do on a Monday night.

    Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

  3. #53
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Phila./NY
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    I guess....but I have a salad from Joes!
    L
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

  4. #54
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,274
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    7

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    I guess....but I have a salad from Joes!
    L
    Lance is mocking me because I committed to home cooking all of my food in November.

    What I wouldn't give for a nice salad from Joes...

    Doug Peterson, Head of Technical Services
    Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer | Personal Portfolio

  5. #55
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    We should clarify a relatively slow top shutter speed is only a limitation to generating SHALLOW DoF under brighter lighting... In "normal" outdoor light at ISO 100, your max aperture would be approximately f5.6 @ 1/800th. So if you wanted f4 or f2.8, you'd need to mount an ND filter or use a camera with faster shutter speeds or lower ISO...

    I rarely want shallow DoF in landscapes, though I definitely do in a few certain situations. However, I find I like shallow DoF for many street or natural light portrait sessions, and this is where I find the higher shutter speeds beneficial.

    All FWIW,
    The H3D-II/39 offers ISO 50. The only HC lenses offering faster than f/3.2 are the 100/2.2 and 80/2.8. I rarely have run out of shutter speed with the 500 series camera let alone the H camera @ 1/800th ... usually if ISO 50 and 1/800th doesn't do it, the light is pretty harsh.

    I far more often ran out of sync speed when shooting environmental outdoor portraits using a touch of fill ... which is why I sold off my Mamiya ... 1/125th top sync forced small apertures to balance out the ambient.

    Depends on which situation you are more likely to face more frequently based on your shooting.

  6. #56
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Here is the breakdown on platform flexibility, at least through the 3rd quarter of 2008.

    Leaf
    Platform swap (no shims required)
    Cost: $2,099
    When: Can be done any time in or out of warranty

    Hasselblad
    Adapter system (shims may be required)
    Cost: $650 - $850 per adapter
    When: can be done any time in or out of warranty

    Sinar
    Adapter system (shims may be required)
    Cost: $661 - $2537 per adapter
    When: can be done any time in or out of warranty

    Phase One
    Platform swap (no shims required)
    Option #1) Cost: Free (with 3 year Value Add Warranty)
    When: can be done any time within 3 year warranty period
    Option #2) Cost: $2,500 (with 1 year Classic Warranty)
    When: can be done any time in or out of warranty


    Steve Hendrix
    Phase One

  7. #57
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    I do have a question here though. Can you take a H3 with a 39 mpx sensor back and switch it to another body or are they a matched pair
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  8. #58
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I do have a question here though. Can you take a H3 with a 39 mpx sensor back and switch it to another body or are they a matched pair
    They're matched, but the back works on viewcameras or any sync driven camera with a H adapter.

    If you want interchangability, then the CF backs are there for that choice. Also, CF backs do not need a separate battery or Image bank to use them on a tech camera ... but the Image Bank will work with them if you wish that option.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Phase One offers a free platform swap with the Value Added (and highly recommended) 3-year Warranty. Even less money than an adapter from Sinar .
    Well the Sinar adapters start at 365.- (RRP, so could be cheaper in reality)

    How much is the Value Added Warranty?

    Besides this misses the point that with the adapter system, you are free to use multiple platforms on the same day. A studio can share a back across various cameras, or you can enjoy the flexibility of using the same back on your chosen leaf shutter system AND focal plane shutter system.

  10. #60
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hi All,
    I'll also assume that the small huffiness I feel about Hassy doing lens correction in software rather than in lens is misplaced: I use an M8 and that is also doing lens correction in software and that really doesn't bother me.
    Doesn't the M8 just perform vignette correction? That does not shift pixels around with the subsequent loss of detail. In other words, not all software correction is equal!

  11. #61
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    In fact all of the companies, including Phase (see Capture One 4.5.1) do some form of lens correction in software.
    I am not aware of any lens correction being performed by Sinar software. Was this a mistake or can you provide any information?

  12. #62
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Also, if you're shooting landscapes you may find that in the long run you may switch to a tech camera such as the Horeseman SWD or Cambo WDS/RS. These bodies are built for landscape; they are slow as molasses to work with (relatively at least, still much faster than a film view camera) but offer absolutely unbeatable lens quality
    This is absolutely true. If you want the best machine for landscapes, you are better off using a view camera with lenses such as Rodenstock HR. Try and find image samples on websites such as alpa.ch and you'll see what I mean

  13. #63
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flesher View Post
    Agreed, BUT.... The Phase "+" LCD also has the highest resolution
    Highest? At the moment the highest resolution is on the Sinar eSprit 65 back: 640 x 480 pixels.

  14. #64
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/Phase One View Post
    Our advantage is that you can shoot view camera or technical camera without having to deal with any external power sources, battery or what have you if you don't wish to.
    And just for the record this is also true of the Sinar eMotion and eSprit backs.

  15. #65
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/Phase One View Post
    Sinar
    Adapter system (shims may be required)
    I thought Sinar had moved to fixed adapters quite some time ago. No 'shims' required.

  16. #66
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hendrix/Phase One View Post
    Sinar
    Adapter system (shims may be required)
    Cost: $661 - $2537 per adapter
    The list price of the most expensive adapter (for the Rollei 6008) is 1,128 (approx $1,636).

  17. #67
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpetersonci View Post
    Phase One offers a free platform swap with the Value Added (and highly recommended) 3-year Warranty. Even as than a Sinat adapter.
    Really? How much does the warranty cost? How much does it cost without the warranty?
    Carsten - Website

  18. #68
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Doesn't the M8 just perform vignette correction? That does not shift pixels around with the subsequent loss of detail. In other words, not all software correction is equal!
    Where is there information about "subsequent loss of detail" from "shifting pixels around" that you mention?

    The software corrections are optional and can be selected individually if preferred. Contrary to what you are saying ... in practice, correcting CA specific to a lens improves the image quality as there is virtually none once applied.

    I've yet to encounter a wide angle SLR lens without some distortion, so the distortion correction is also a welcome software correction ... whether from Hasselblad or Phase One.

    My shooting experiences and results do not support your theory.

  19. #69
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    One option not discussed so far IF one prefers a more open system AND prefers the Hasselblad H camera ...

    The new H2F with a CF/39 digital back.

    Unlike a H2, the H2F provides many of the current digital advantages when used with HC lenses, including use of the H/C 28mm and digital software corrections.

    The CF digital back can be used on virtually all MF cameras via a system of relatively inexpensive iAdapters, or on a tech camera with a H adapter ... so use it on a H camera (H1, H2, H2F), or a RZ/RB, or on a Mamiya 645, or Contax 645, or Fuji GX, or a Rollie 6000 AF ... at any time ... no mount swap needed.

    http://www.hasselbladusa.com/media/1...tasheet_v2.pdf

    The CF backs use a clip-on, easy to find Sony battery available in various strengths to match your shooting needs ... so are fully portable without the need for the Image bank or thether ... but both can be used if desired.

    Like with all the H cameras, all CF, CFi and CFE Zeiss optics can be used via the CF Adapter including the new 40IF and the legendary Zeiss APO teles ... and unlike other adapted lens systems, these are fully auto aperture so one need not stop down meter or shoot.

  20. #70
    Senior Member Graham Mitchell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    London/Kiev
    Posts
    1,079
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Where is there information about "subsequent loss of detail" from "shifting pixels around" that you mention?
    Any geometric transformation applied to a bitmap will introduce 'smearing' and loss of detail. It is for this reason that correcting lens distortion in Photoshop will never beat a good tilt/shift lens and a photo taken properly first time.

    But don't take my word for it.

    Even correction of CA will reduce the detail per channel but it is an acceptable trade off because the RGB image as a whole can be much improved.

  21. #71
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    I have to say that Sinar's adapter solution really stands out here (and I don't own a back yet, so no owner-bias here). I don't know if the CF adapters can also be swapped by the user, but if so, that holds here too.

    Having to send away a back to change camera system is madness. Bundling adapter switching with a warranty is not a good business model, *for the photographer*. It is great for Phase One, and possibly the distributors, because as you say, Doug, most people never use it. In other words, you pay for something you don't use. And no, it is not free. The cost is built-in and not unbundleable.

    IMO, everything should have an individual pricetag on it, and a fair one at that. Bundles should save a little, but if bundles save a lot over the individual services, then the individual prices are in most cases likely not fair in the first place.


    This whole issue really makes me lean towards Sinar. The adapters are expensive, but you know what you are paying for, and you know if you need it or not.
    Carsten - Website

  22. #72
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Carsten you have a choice to buy the Value added warranty or not. It is 3 k it does include a swap mount in it, it also includes a free loaner program not sure any one else actually advertises that or does that ( they may but i never hear it advertised). You also get a Hassy adapter plus several other things with this price. If you do not buy the value added which you save that cost but say at a latter time you decide to switch than it would be 2500.00 . I personally did not buy it. I would sell it first. Please the 3 year warranty you get with Sinar and do NOT let anyone fill your pants with anything that cost is built into the price of the back and you are paying for it just like any other product out there with a 3 year warranty BMW for example with maintenance free 3 year warranty there is a price built into it with that purchase. Yes the adapters are less than a full swap but you have to weigh these factors in if you do swaps or not. I will not so i did not buy the VA and saved some money. There are 5 different camera's out there what are you going to swap too really without having a complete lens system for it and what advantage does it really bring unless you sell your camera system but reality now is the backs are bundled with free camera's and all of them do that now. So it makes almost more sense to sell everything anyway because the new back you buy may have more features in it after 2 years of ownership. The other issue is we can always use a Alpa, Cambo , Horseman or a view camera with any mount we have. Honestly i see no reason for swaps in the overall picture of this, I figure just easier to sell the package and move to whatever you want but that is my thinking and i saved 3k up front. Now I did lose some benefit of course but i switch system faster than some folks drink water. LOL

    Honestly as a buyer you have to sit down and figure out your future plan. A swap may makes sense for some and for others it makes no sense. This is exactly why most of us here say the same thing day in and day out. Try as many systems and do your homework before buying any of them. It all sounds good on paper but reality is a different ball game . Some folks have 2 or more MF systems so it may make sense , good for them but I can't afford that luxury. The question is do you plan on that.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  23. #73
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Right, so either you go for the extended warranty (you didn't, I wouldn't), or you pay 2500 for the adapter change.

    Like you I am also unlikely to switch. But I can imagine it. I can imagine wanting to go from 645 to a full MF square camera like the V series, or the Hy6, and I can also imagine wanting to try out the Mamiya RZ. More likely though is wanting to use the same back on a view camera. The separate, user-changeable adapters is just a really nice approach. I imagine that it would also increase resale value of a back, since suddenly all camera brands can use it, rather than just one system.

    Anyway, everyone has to decide for himself, but personally, I dislike bundles which you cannot unbundle in a cost-effective fashion. In the case of Phase, either the warranty, loaners and so on should also be available for about $500 separately, maybe a little higher, or the $2500 adapter-change price is a total ripoff.
    Carsten - Website

  24. #74
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    23,623
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2555

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    If you had a Phase back not saying to get one but there is a plate for the RZ for 400 dollars I think . The view camera's and tech camera's all come with your mount plate or you may need to buy them anyway. The Alpa , Cambo and Horseman are without plates so you need to buy one for whatever mount you have. No real difference here. Honestly the only real difference overall or I should say the most useful feature is a leaf shutter and a focal plane shutter and that will change in time. Mamiya will have leaf shutter lenses so that would eliminate a switch for some folks between systems. Now I should add here that Hassy adapter takes all the V lenses, so buying a V body may not make sense too unless you need the leaf shutter. You have a Contax so that also gives you lot's of lens options and lens adapters also.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  25. #75
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    I have to say that Sinar's adapter solution really stands out here (and I don't own a back yet, so no owner-bias here). I don't know if the CF adapters can also be swapped by the user, but if so, that holds here too.

    Having to send away a back to change camera system is madness. Bundling adapter switching with a warranty is not a good business model, *for the photographer*. It is great for Phase One, and possibly the distributors, because as you say, Doug, most people never use it. In other words, you pay for something you don't use. And no, it is not free. The cost is built-in and not unbundleable.

    IMO, everything should have an individual pricetag on it, and a fair one at that. Bundles should save a little, but if bundles save a lot over the individual services, then the individual prices are in most cases likely not fair in the first place.


    This whole issue really makes me lean towards Sinar. The adapters are expensive, but you know what you are paying for, and you know if you need it or not.
    Yes, the Hasselblad CF Digital back iAdapters are user exchangable. Very easy actually.

  26. #76
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Yes, the Hasselblad CF Digital back iAdapters are user exchangable. Very easy actually.
    I just browsed through the info about the CF backs. Sounds great, if someone would think about using a back on a traditional camera like a Hasselblad 205 or 503 but also use a Mamiya with AF sometimes.
    However prices seems pretty high for those Backs.

  27. #77
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    For some people, mount swaps could be a decent idea as long as they remain available.

    When Leaf went to the AFi Hy6 system, suddenly I could NOT swap mounts on my $30K Aptus 75s to use it on the AFi, even though the AFi 7 digital back was the same sensor and performance. Not one hint about that little detail when I purchased the Aptus 75s.

  28. #78
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I just browsed through the info about the CF backs. Sounds great, if someone would think about using a back on a traditional camera like a Hasselblad 205 or 503 but also use a Mamiya with AF sometimes.
    However prices seems pretty high for those Backs.
    Talk to a dealer about pricing. Not as high as one might think when you get down to bargaining. There are some decent deals on demo/refurb CFs also ... including a 39 Multi-Shot.

    BTW, no back from anyone works on a Hasselblad 200 series camera and retains full functions except the Hasselblad CFV ... which is a crop sensor 16 meg dedicated digital back for use on all V series cameras 500 or 200 type. The CF backs work on 500 series cameras but not the 200 series ... nothing from Sinar, Phase One or Leaf will work full function either.

  29. #79
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    I am still very interested in that CFV back.
    One question: does the 30/3.5 not work with the cvf back or with the 503cwd or why does everyone only mention the 40?
    Thanks again, Tom

  30. #80
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    I am still very interested in that CFV back.
    One question: does the 30/3.5 not work with the cvf back or with the 503cwd or why does everyone only mention the 40?
    Thanks again, Tom
    Yes Tom, the 30mm f/3.5 works with the CFV back. Don't know if you know this, but the 30mm is a fisheye lens. I personally like it for a lot of fun shots.
    BTW, I can use the 30mm on my H system cameras also, or with a film back on a 500 series camera, or set the lens to F and use it on a 200 series focal plane camera with film or the CFV digital back. : -)

  31. #81
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Thanks-my fault- indeed I didnt know the 30 was a fisheye.
    Just talked to a Hasselblad dealer and he coudnt understand how one would be interested in the cfv backs since the price for the H-systems dropped so much. anyways, 100 people 100 opinions

  32. #82
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    I made a decision...

    Thanks for the advice everyone!

    I have ordered a kit of Phamiya camera with P45+ and 80mm F2.8 and then a few days later the new P1/Hetblei 45mm TS lens will arrive.

    The kit should arrive on Thursday or Friday... from Teamwork Digital in London.

    How very exciting!

    t

  33. #83
    Workshop Member lance_schad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Phila./NY
    Posts
    1,146
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    19

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Congrats and welcome to the Phase One family. Anxious to see the results from your new system and especially the new 45 T/S .

    Also so what were the final deciding factors in your decision.

    Lance
    LANCE SCHAD - Digital Transitions - Phase One,Mamiya | Leaf,Arca-Swiss,Cambo, Profoto
    direct/cell:610-496-5586 office:877-367-8537x224
    http://www.digitaltransitions.com email:[email protected]

  34. #84
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by lance_schad View Post
    Congrats and welcome to the Phase One family. Anxious to see the results from your new system and especially the new 45 T/S .

    Also so what were the final deciding factors in your decision.

    Lance
    Hi Lance,

    First, the reasons why I almost went with the Hassy: I think it feels slightly better and the screen is nicer.

    Now the Phase One Clinchers:

    * Long exposures.
    * Higher max shutter speeds but with some leaf shutter lenses in the pipe for higher flash sync should I ever need it.
    * Access to a big back catalogue of interesting glass at good prices
    * Will *probably* suit my workflow better (we'll see)
    * Wider ISO range

    The open or non-openness of the systems was otherwise not an issue for me. I would like to have seen a detailed review comparison of image quality but could not find one and though I said at the top of this thread that I assumed IQ would be about the same for both systems, there's been pretty much no comment on that one factor in this thread. Short of renting both systems and doing my own tests, there was no way of knowing!

    However, my dealer will place the order first thing tomorrow so if anyone can prove me wrong tell me now: I am at root in this for the IQ.

    Best

    Tim

  35. #85
    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Los Altos, CA
    Posts
    10,486
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    1031

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    Highest? At the moment the highest resolution is on the Sinar eSprit 65 back: 640 x 480 pixels.
    My appologies, I was not aware of that fact and stand corrected, though the OP was enquiring specifically between P45+ and H3D39 and that is the context my answer was framed around

    So Graham, can we assume the zoom on the Sinar e65 is also very useful for zoom to 100% focus confirmation?

    Thanks!
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

  36. #86
    Senior Member Steve Hendrix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    420
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    4

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by foto-z View Post
    The list price of the most expensive adapter (for the Rollei 6008) is €1,128 (approx $1,636).
    You can't just do a conversion and arrive at the USD price - especially with Sinar. It is not that simple. The latest pricing through September, 2008 showed the USD price of the Rollei adapter kit at $2,537. Other than the Hy6 adapter, all other adapters for eMotion backs started at $1,400 +.

    Regarding fixed mounts with Sinar, I believe they are now shipping with a shim, but the shim is specifically pre-engineered to be accurate. Hasselblad offers a shim kit, consisting of multiple shims.

    Sinar has excellence in engineering and machining and this is probably why they can include just a single shim as the accuracy of the machining on their adapters is very tight with regard to tolerances.

    See, Dave, I said something nice....


    Steve Hendrix
    Phase One

  37. #87
    Howard Cubell
    Guest

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Hi Lance,

    First, the reasons why I almost went with the Hassy: I think it feels slightly better and the screen is nicer.

    Now the Phase One Clinchers:

    * Long exposures.
    * Higher max shutter speeds but with some leaf shutter lenses in the pipe for higher flash sync should I ever need it.
    * Access to a big back catalogue of interesting glass at good prices
    * Will *probably* suit my workflow better (we'll see)
    * Wider ISO range

    The open or non-openness of the systems was otherwise not an issue for me. I would like to have seen a detailed review comparison of image quality but could not find one and though I said at the top of this thread that I assumed IQ would be about the same for both systems, there's been pretty much no comment on that one factor in this thread. Short of renting both systems and doing my own tests, there was no way of knowing!

    However, my dealer will place the order first thing tomorrow so if anyone can prove me wrong tell me now: I am at root in this for the IQ.

    Best

    Tim
    I doubt anyone can convince you that one system or the other is superior in terms of IQ when you are talking about the prime lenses of both systems. However, I would expect that there will be material differences in image quality between the Phamiya with the Hartblei 45mm T/S lens and the H3D with the HTS 1.5 T/S device and the HCD 28mm lens. After all, the Hartblei is a Soviet era lens design that, as best I can tell, is not well known for its exceptional image quality. Unfortunately, the HTS device is not out yet and the Hasselblad employees are the only ones who have tested it. They probably know how it stacks up against the Hartblei, but they have not, to my knowledge, released any hard test data or even anecdotal comparisons with the Hatblei. Eventually, we will see hard data and first hand field experience with both set-ups. It's also worth noting that the Hartblei is the only T/S lens for the Phamiya. If the T/S capability is important to you, why limit yourself to one focal length. The HTS 1.5 can be used with the 28, 35, 50, 80 and 100mm lenses.

  38. #88
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: I made a decision...

    Congratulations. Really no wrong decisions here, just preferences based on shooting needs.

  39. #89
    Super Duper
    Senior Member
    carstenw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    2,530
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: I made a decision...

    Interesting! You have taken the Phase One/Mamiya route, and I have taken the Contax 645 route, and will likely get the Sinar eMotion 54 LV. We could compare results, although I am a bit behind, as I don't have the money for the back yet. My camera kit is complete though (once the Hartblei arrives).
    Carsten - Website

  40. #90
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Cubell View Post
    I doubt anyone can convince you that one system or the other is superior in terms of IQ when you are talking about the prime lenses of both systems. However, I would expect that there will be material differences in image quality between the Phamiya with the Hartblei 45mm T/S lens and the H3D with the HTS 1.5 T/S device and the HCD 28mm lens. After all, the Hartblei is a Soviet era lens design that, as best I can tell, is not well known for its exceptional image quality. Unfortunately, the HTS device is not out yet and the Hasselblad employees are the only ones who have tested it. They probably know how it stacks up against the Hartblei, but they have not, to my knowledge, released any hard test data or even anecdotal comparisons with the Hatblei. Eventually, we will see hard data and first hand field experience with both set-ups. It's also worth noting that the Hartblei is the only T/S lens for the Phamiya. If the T/S capability is important to you, why limit yourself to one focal length. The HTS 1.5 can be used with the 28, 35, 50, 80 and 100mm lenses.

    Good points.

    I can't see myself wanting to use the T/S functionality other than for fairly wide work and I can then zoom with my feet if required: 45mm is approx 28MM in 35mm equiv speak and interestingly because of the fact that the Hassy TS adaptor is also a focal length multiplier, in order to get an equivalent focal length TS on the Hassy I'd have to buy the 28mm lens and the adaptor. A pricey bundle.

    That 28mm is equiv to 18 mm in 35mm speak, a focal length I would rarely use. Also, it has a smaller max aperture and you lose a stop and a half with the converter.

    Basically, as long as you're reasonably happy with the focal length (i.e. can live without T and S on all your glass) the Hatblei is more cost effective and more usable. Less stuff to carry and also Michael Reichmann has given the original version of it a rave review, saying that it's only not taken seriously because it doesn't cost enough to get people taking it seriously. The P1 version has redesigned elements and coatings and I am informed will be pretty cool!

    T

  41. #91
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Just talked to a Hasselblad dealer and he coudnt understand how one would be interested in the cfv backs since the price for the H-systems dropped so much. anyways, 100 people 100 opinions
    * presumably this was after you indicated that you are interested in using a 200 series camera - yes?

  42. #92
    Howard Cubell
    Guest

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by tashley View Post
    Good points.

    I can't see myself wanting to use the T/S functionality other than for fairly wide work and I can then zoom with my feet if required: 45mm is approx 28MM in 35mm equiv speak and interestingly because of the fact that the Hassy TS adaptor is also a focal length multiplier, in order to get an equivalent focal length TS on the Hassy I'd have to buy the 28mm lens and the adaptor. A pricey bundle.

    T
    I understand that today you think you have no need for T/S functionality except for fairly wide work. However, I can tell you from my own experience with an H3D-39 that the biggest technical challenge I have struggled with in using it is how to achieve optimal sharpness through my images so that I can take advantage of all that resolution a 39mp back offers. I never appreciated how the extraordinary resolution of the 39mp back would make slightly out-of-focus areas look really out-of-focus just because of how sharp the perfectly focused areas appear in comparison. In order to minimize diffraction effects and use more optimal apertures in terms of lens performance, I never shoot at a smaller aperture than f/16. This significantly compromises the depth of field achievable with lenses in the 40mm-100mm range. I have been using software solutions(e.g., Helicon Focus) to try to deal with this problem, but it is an imperfect solution in many ways. I very much want to use a hardware-based solution, but a large format camera does not fit my shooting style. I really look forward to the HTS 1.5 to see if it does the trick.

  43. #93
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Cubell View Post
    I understand that today you think you have no need for T/S functionality except for fairly wide work. However, I can tell you from my own experience with an H3D-39 that the biggest technical challenge I have struggled with in using it is how to achieve optimal sharpness through my images so that I can take advantage of all that resolution a 39mp back offers. I never appreciated how the extraordinary resolution of the 39mp back would make slightly out-of-focus areas look really out-of-focus just because of how sharp the perfectly focused areas appear in comparison. In order to minimize diffraction effects and use more optimal apertures in terms of lens performance, I never shoot at a smaller aperture than f/16. This significantly compromises the depth of field achievable with lenses in the 40mm-100mm range. I have been using software solutions(e.g., Helicon Focus) to try to deal with this problem, but it is an imperfect solution in many ways. I very much want to use a hardware-based solution, but a large format camera does not fit my shooting style. I really look forward to the HTS 1.5 to see if it does the trick.
    and there I was thinking I was h only guy having issues with exactly that - I feel better now

  44. #94
    Workshop Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Jupiter, Fla.
    Posts
    1,967
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    2

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    and there I was thinking I was h only guy having issues with exactly that - I feel better now
    Not the only one by a long shot... include me too. I was a little slow to fully appreciate the reduced DOF with MF and the impact it has on the image.

  45. #95
    Subscriber Member tashley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    South of England
    Posts
    3,295
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by Howard Cubell View Post
    I understand that today you think you have no need for T/S functionality except for fairly wide work. However, I can tell you from my own experience with an H3D-39 that the biggest technical challenge I have struggled with in using it is how to achieve optimal sharpness through my images so that I can take advantage of all that resolution a 39mp back offers. I never appreciated how the extraordinary resolution of the 39mp back would make slightly out-of-focus areas look really out-of-focus just because of how sharp the perfectly focused areas appear in comparison. In order to minimize diffraction effects and use more optimal apertures in terms of lens performance, I never shoot at a smaller aperture than f/16. This significantly compromises the depth of field achievable with lenses in the 40mm-100mm range. I have been using software solutions(e.g., Helicon Focus) to try to deal with this problem, but it is an imperfect solution in many ways. I very much want to use a hardware-based solution, but a large format camera does not fit my shooting style. I really look forward to the HTS 1.5 to see if it does the trick.

    May I ask what sort of work you do? Because a reasonable number of people have not yet made this point (which would, now I come to think about it, would appear self-evident) and that might imply that it is more of a problem for certain sorts of work? I would have thought that for landscapes where the foreground interest is, say, ten metres away and the background is generally half a mile or so, mid-range glass should work?

    I'll tootle off to a DOF calculator and try it out!

    T

    I just did so, at

    http://www.panavision.co.nz/main/kba...alcFOVform.asp

    coincidentally for a P45+ the first aperture which gives focus from 10 metres to infinity with an 80mm lens is F16... at which aperture you're in focus from 5.02 metres onwards
    Last edited by tashley; 5th November 2008 at 00:30.

  46. #96
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    * presumably this was after you indicated that you are interested in using a 200 series camera - yes?
    Why do you think so? The back should work well with a 200 serious body and one would have the advantage of the optinal focal plane shutter.

  47. #97
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,338
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    52

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Why do you think so? The back should work well with a 200 serious body and one would have the advantage of the optinal focal plane shutter.
    Why do I think what?

  48. #98
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    Why do you think so? The back should work well with a 200 serious body and one would have the advantage of the optinal focal plane shutter.
    Because the dealer doesn't sell 200 series cameras ... they are discontinued for years now. They want to sell their 503CWD or H3D digital camera systems.
    A good dealer would have helped you more, not tried to smugly upsell you.

    The CFV digital back can be purchased separately.

  49. #99
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,623
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Because the dealer doesn't sell 200 series cameras ... they are discontinued for years now. They want to sell their 503CWD or H3D digital camera systems.
    A good dealer would have helped you more, not tried to smugly upsell you.

    The CFV digital back can be purchased separately.
    Got the idea - he just thought that the original price of 8000 for cfvII is not justified if one can get a h3dII-31-Set with lens for 12000 (+vat) and he thought the the H glass was "optimized for digital" and the CFV and CF backs not as integrated (regarding battery etc).
    Personally I would expect that I might like the Zeiss glass better than the newer H glass...
    Its interesting to talk with different photostores. One other guy even tried to talk me out of MF - he repeated again and again "If you think you need it - well..."

    fotografz: do you use the cfv or the cfvII and could you comment about the differences besides larger display?

  50. #100
    Super Duper
    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Royal Oak, MI and Palm Harbor, FL
    Posts
    8,498
    Post Thanks / Like
    Images
    44

    Re: H3DII39 or P45+

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    fotografz: do you use the cfv or the cfvII and could you comment about the differences besides larger display?
    The LCD display is marginally larger, but clearer. It's the same LCD upgrade they did to all CF backs. The other difference is the newer sensor filter which was changed on all Hasselblad backs including the CFV-II. It supposedly is anti glare and produces better color renditions.

    The real deal is in the package with the Zeiss 40IF. Pricing in your area seems high.

    BTW, the H cameras can use the Zeiss lenses via the CF adapter. Unlike other adapters, this one is fully auto aperture so you do not need to stop down meter and shoot.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •