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H3DII39 or P45+

PeterA

Well-known member
There is nothing 'open' about a back which has to be sent in to have its mount changed. The only 'open' systems are from Hasselbald in the CF range of backs and Sinar - both of which offer user changeable adaptor plates ( at a price ) of course.

I would suggest that you definitely rent/try before you buy - it is the little things in the end that end up bugging you the most - and you dont know what the 'little' things will be until you start using the gear.

I use Phocus and C1 ( trial version(s) ) as I cant seem to get my software to work from Phase - and have to say that if forced to choose between the two Phocus is a much better system ( for me) - there would be others that disagree - I dont really care about someone else's workflow - and neither should you - again test it.
 
J

jmvdigital

Guest
PeterA, I'm confused on why sending in the back to have a plate changed or not makes it "open" or "closed." Both need plate changes, one you can do yourself, one you can't. Doesn't mean you can't do it. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but Phase gives you a free platform change with the 3-year VA warranty.

EDIT: Well, the 3-year gives you "3-Year Free Platform Swap Guarantee" though I'm not 100% clear on what that means. Maybe I mispoke.
 
Agreed, BUT.... The Phase "+" LCD also has the highest resolution, and as such you can actually use it's image review in the field to confirm fine focus. A small point for some, larger for others, but one I think is worth mentioning.
Jack,

After reviewing the Phase 45+ and 65+ datasheets they indicate 2.2" screen at 230,400 pixels.

Hasselblad H3DII offers a 3" display at 230, 400 pixels also found in the datasheets at www.hasselbladusa.com > downloads

Personally i would opt for the larger display.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 

woodyspedden

New member
Tim

I have an essentially brand new H3DII-39 which I am again thinking about selling. I hAve had recent surgery on my thumb and doubt that I will regain enough strength and mobility to handle the big MFDB system. In fact I am likely to go back to only my M8. There are seven months left on the original warranty.

PM me if you have any interest

best

Woody
 

Clawery

New member
PeterA, I'm confused on why sending in the back to have a plate changed or not makes it "open" or "closed." Both need plate changes, one you can do yourself, one you can't. Doesn't mean you can't do it. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but Phase gives you a free platform change with the 3-year VA warranty.

EDIT: Well, the 3-year gives you "3-Year Free Platform Swap Guarantee" though I'm not 100% clear on what that means. Maybe I mispoke.
With the Phase One 3-Year Value Added Warranty, you are allowed to do a 1 time platform swap for free.

Chris Lawery
Sales Manager
[email protected]
Capture Integration, Phase One Dealer of the Year

877-217-9870 | National Atlanta / Miami
404-234-5195 | Cell
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Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

Maybe you got the impression that Hassy was the only one to do lens corrections because they locked their 28mm lens from use with anyone else's back. That was a marketing rather than technical decision. In fact all of the companies, including Phase (see Capture One 4.5.1) do some form of lens correction in software. To not do so would simply be giving up IQ in the pursuit of some form of purity.
First i would like to say that the Phrases "Closed System" and "Locked" are Phase generated. Hasselblad created the first integrated DSLR in 2004 with the H1D followed by the H2D in 2005.

There are tremendous benifits of having a system that is completely integrated and Hasselblads competitors are following suite with their first generation DSLR cameras.

We have a very unique advantage whereas we have a hand in designing and manufacturing everything from the Digital magazines, Bodies and Lenses. Yes, we do have an optical design team in Sweden that has designed every HC and HCD lens. We provide all MTF data on our website so photographers can compare optics wether it be an HC/HCD or Zeiss lens. We manufacture the electro-mechanical shutter at the factory in Sweden.

Lens corrections are not specific to the 28mm HCD but across the spectrum of 11 HC/HCD lenses from 28mm to the 300mm including the 50-110, 35-90, HTS 1.5 tilt shift, 3 extension tubes, 1.7x tele-converter. Hasselblad has created in excess of 50,000 data files, mapping each focal lenght at every aperture and focus distance with each combination of above items.

Does C1 use generic lens data for Lens + or have they gone through the process of mapping every optic? I already know the answer to this question ...

This is a technical decision rather then a marketing decision. Hasselblad designed their first digital HCD lens to cover the image circle of a 22/39/50mp sensor, the 28mm was announced at Photokina 2006 Hasselblad at the same time we announced our 3rd generation H3D platform 2 years ago.

It is relatively easy to design a lens dedicated to specific sensor dimension that is sharp edge to edge that exhibits a small level of distortion which can be corrected in software, thereby reducing the weight, size, and offer an overall cost savings.

Hasselblad was the first any medium format company to introduce DAC (digital auto corrections) and now years later companies are following Hasselblads lead and trying to implement the same. We have 3 levels:

Level 1: Chromatic Aberration correction
Level 2: Distortion correction
Level 3: Vignetting correction

Also, if you're shooting landscapes you may find that in the long run you may switch to a tech camera such as the Horeseman SWD or Cambo WDS/RS. These bodies are built for landscape; they are slow as molasses to work with (relatively at least, still much faster than a film view camera) but offer absolutely unbeatable lens quality (they use simple-lens-design, non retrofocus large format glass from Schneider and Rodenstock) and the ability to stitch within the image circle. Since the Phase uses a separate battery for the back it fits on the back of such a tech camera without the need for a separate image bank/battery. Having a Phase body and a Tech camera is also pretty common. Each tool has its place.
You can certainly remove the H3DII digital magazine and mount it to any technical camera that has an H mount. Power can be provided via our 100GB Image Bank II with a standard Sony InfoLithium battery attached, shoot tethered to laptop or use the HTS (tilt-shift) with your H1, H2, H3DII camera:

Hasselblad Photokina HTS video



Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 
Hi Carlos,

Thanks - I look forward to it. But I must say that the new Phase one 45mm TS will end up as being very similar to the Hassy 28mm + 1.5 TS except for it will have a better max aperture. Michael Reichmann's review of the Hartblei 45mm is instructive since the new P1 lens is developed in conjunction with Hartblei and in fact looks.... well... the same!

http://luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/hartblei45.shtml

Best

Tim
I don't see the similarity between these two products other then being a tilt-shift device.

The Hasselblad HTS can be used with the 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 80mm and 100mm lenses on H1, H2, H2F, H1D, H2D, H3D and H3DII cameras. If you are using the H2F/CF back or H3D/H3DII you will be able to utilize Level 1, 2 and 3 Digital Auto Corrections. All data relating to movement tilt, shift and rotation is embedded within the file and can be viewed in Phocus, see screenshot, note information to the right of lens.

See the HTS Datasheet for the MTF (Modulation Transfer Function) data for each of the lenses on page 6. I can't find any MTF data for the Phase One/Hartblei to compare, i will continue to look.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

First i would like to say that the Phrases "Closed System" and "Locked" are Phase generated. Hasselblad created the first integrated DSLR in 2004 with the H1D followed by the H2D in 2005.

There are tremendous benifits of having a system that is completely integrated and Hasselblads competitors are following suite with their first generation DSLR cameras.

We have a very unique advantage whereas we have a hand in designing and manufacturing everything from the Digital magazines, Bodies and Lenses. Yes, we do have an optical design team in Sweden that has designed every HC and HCD lens. We provide all MTF data on our website so photographers can compare optics wether it be an HC/HCD or Zeiss lens. We manufacture the electro-mechanical shutter at the factory in Sweden.

Lens corrections are not specific to the 28mm HCD but across the spectrum of 11 HC/HCD lenses from 28mm to the 300mm including the 50-110, 35-90, HTS 1.5 tilt shift, 3 extension tubes, 1.7x tele-converter. Hasselblad has created in excess of 50,000 data files, mapping each focal lenght at every aperture and focus distance with each combination of above items.

Does C1 use generic lens data for Lens + or have they gone through the process of mapping every optic? I already know the answer to this question ...

This is a technical decision rather then a marketing decision. Hasselblad designed their first digital HCD lens to cover the image circle of a 22/39/50mp sensor, the 28mm was announced at Photokina 2006 Hasselblad at the same time we announced our 3rd generation H3D platform 2 years ago.

It is relatively easy to design a lens dedicated to specific sensor dimension that is sharp edge to edge that exhibits a small level of distortion which can be corrected in software, thereby reducing the weight, size, and offer an overall cost savings.

Hasselblad was the first any medium format company to introduce DAC (digital auto corrections) and now years later companies are following Hasselblads lead and trying to implement the same. We have 3 levels:

Level 1: Chromatic Aberration correction
Level 2: Distortion correction
Level 3: Vignetting correction



You can certainly remove the H3DII digital magazine and mount it to any technical camera that has an H mount. Power can be provided via our 100GB Image Bank II with a standard Sony InfoLithium battery attached, shoot tethered to laptop or use the HTS (tilt-shift) with your H1, H2, H3DII camera:

Hasselblad Photokina HTS video



Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA


Software-based lens corrections are a valuable way to correct deficiencies in lens design and manufacturing. Hasselblad has done a nice job employing this, particularly with their 28mm HCD lens. However, Phase One has also implemented lens corrections and has done so for a multitude of optical systems, including Hasselblad H lenses, Contax AF, and Phase One/Mamiya lenses. These corrections are specific to these lenses and not generic. How we actually produce the corrections is not 100% known to me at this time, but I will get an explanation of the process shortly.

One of the benefits of producing more optically correct lenses rather than placing the emphasis of correcting them later is that your view through the viewfinder is more accurate.

I agree that camera integration is a good thing and Phase One is continuing to evolve that process by working closer and closer with Mamiya and I expect that to continue to evolve in the same direction.

Regarding using an H3DII on a view camera, because of the necessity of having to purchase the $2,000 Imagebank to use as a power source, Phase One has a clear advantage as all Phase One digital backs have their own internal battery power source.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
 

tashley

Subscriber Member
Thanks chaps, more and more useful information to consider.

I am curious to hear what Paul has to say about the use of the h3DII 39 as a landscape camera - or indeed what anyone else ahs to say: the max shutter speed of 1/800th does seem rather limiting as to DOF...
 

docmoore

Subscriber and Workshop Member
Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

Regarding using an H3DII on a view camera, because of the necessity of having to purchase the $2,000 Imagebank to use as a power source, Phase One has a clear advantage as all Phase One digital backs have their own internal battery power source.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One

Not exactly.

One can spring for the Imagebank or use the firewire out of a Macbook or use any external battery that supplies 12v via a Belkin firwire router and cable for about $175 total cost...downside is that you have to capture to the CF card in the back...oh wait a minute, that is how my old P20 back stored captures. So a couple of cables more but really $175 in view of the total cost of acquisition is pretty minor. The battery is moderate sized allows for 12hr + shooting and can be belt mounted.

None of these is enough reason in and of itself to purchase a system. Integration of all components is important but you just have to decide which color you like the best.

Bob Moore
 
Thanks chaps, more and more useful information to consider.

I am curious to hear what Paul has to say about the use of the h3DII 39 as a landscape camera - or indeed what anyone else ahs to say: the max shutter speed of 1/800th does seem rather limiting as to DOF...
I personally think that H3DII would be an excellent choice for Landscape photography. I've been shooting with Hasselblads for well over 30 years and found the top shutter speed of 1/500 second on the 500 series nor 1/800 second was a limitation in any way. Of course you would have to take into account the type of work that I did professionally vs. my current personal work. The needs are different.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Thanks chaps, more and more useful information to consider.

I am curious to hear what Paul has to say about the use of the h3DII 39 as a landscape camera - or indeed what anyone else ahs to say: the max shutter speed of 1/800th does seem rather limiting as to DOF...
We should clarify a relatively slow top shutter speed is only a limitation to generating SHALLOW DoF under brighter lighting... In "normal" outdoor light at ISO 100, your max aperture would be approximately f5.6 @ 1/800th. So if you wanted f4 or f2.8, you'd need to mount an ND filter or use a camera with faster shutter speeds or lower ISO...

I rarely want shallow DoF in landscapes, though I definitely do in a few certain situations. However, I find I like shallow DoF for many street or natural light portrait sessions, and this is where I find the higher shutter speeds beneficial.

All FWIW,
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Re: Rhttp://forum.getdpi.com/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&pe: H3DII39 or

Not exactly.

One can spring for the Imagebank or use the firewire out of a Macbook or use any external battery that supplies 12v via a Belkin firwire router and cable for about $175 total cost...downside is that you have to capture to the CF card in the back...oh wait a minute, that is how my old P20 back stored captures. So a couple of cables more but really $175 in view of the total cost of acquisition is pretty minor. The battery is moderate sized allows for 12hr + shooting and can be belt mounted.

None of these is enough reason in and of itself to purchase a system. Integration of all components is important but you just have to decide which color you like the best.

Bob Moore
Good point Bob. Although the battery option would be an option for a Phase One DB as well.

Our advantage is that you can shoot view camera or technical camera without having to deal with any external power sources, battery or what have you if you don't wish to.


Steve Hendrix
Phase One
 
We should clarify a relatively slow top shutter speed is only a limitation to generating SHALLOW DoF under brighter lighting... In "normal" outdoor light at ISO 100, your max aperture would be approximately f5.6 @ 1/800th. So if you wanted f4 or f2.8, you'd need to mount an ND filter or use a camera with faster shutter speeds or lower ISO...

I rarely want shallow DoF in landscapes, though I definitely do in a few certain situations. However, I find I like shallow DoF for many street or natural light portrait sessions, and this is where I find the higher shutter speeds beneficial.

All FWIW,
Jack,

That's why i started with "personally" ;-)
This is what makes us all unique in what and how we photograph, our visual interpretation.
I have rarely ever encountered a problem when shooting wide open. I have used ND filters to increase my shutter duration when photographing ex: waterfall.

When i owned my studio, the great majority of my work was environmental portraiture, so for the most part i could control location and time of day which was either early morning or late afternoon near sunset, where you have a beautiful soft quality of light to work with.

I try to avoid harsh light on my subject but preferred open shade and if the need dictated i would use an off camera Metz to balance my ambient light and adjust my shutter speed to increase or decrease the illumination of the background.

Again this is my personal opinion relating to what i enjoy photographing.

Paul Claesson
Hasselblad USA
 
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