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Thread: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

  1. #301
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Why do we even need revolutionary?
    We don't. They do.

    While there has always been tension regarding how much is too much or too little, the rate of digital revolution (because they can do it) has become a juggernaut designed to separate us from our money in ever tightening cycles.

    So instead of refining and improving something like the A900, we get a whole new experience whether we like it or not. Or a Sony NEX5, then 5N, then 7, then 6 ... wonder when the NEX1, 2, 3 and 4 will debut?

    By the time you get something down pat so it disappears in your hands while making images, the next "mandatory" all new all singing/dancing thing barges its way into the process, and you start all over.

    (Pardon me as I pull my teeth out and gum the next sentence while doing my best Walter Brennan imitation):

    Why youngin, used to be you'd buy a Nikon Pro body and the next one didn't show up for 7 or 8 years. Now, just because the media changed, we have to contend with all this hoopla almost all the time.

    Haven't seen a Nikon digital body the equal of the F6 yet. Haven't noticed the pictures getting any better either.

    -Marc
    Last edited by fotografz; 12th September 2012 at 19:22.
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by ashdown View Post
    I don't think anyone has produced a 16 bit CMOS sensor yet which remains a key draw for MFD. It will be interesting if sensors go to 32 bit in the future and if there is any discernible difference.
    Going beyond 16-bit is bad engineering in current designs.

    The backs that do have honest-to-God 16-bit of useful data (make no mistake: they exist) all have relatively large pixels. This has to do with physics. The so-called "full well capacity" is a fancy way to say "how many electrons can be knocked out of the semiconductor that makes up a pixel".

    If the pixel dimension is halved (i.e. you divide the area by four), then you need two bits less. You also will get that in practice, because you only have one quarter of the silicon in the first place. You also get a host of other problems, which is why "everything else being equal" is almost never a realistic assumption.

    If we will ever see true 16-bits and beyond on CMOS sensors, they will likely be build by adding up multiple readouts digitally. You can obviously already do that (e.g. using HDR), but if it becomes possible to make through-silicon-via's cheaply in a way that is compatible with an image sensor, I think we will see multiple readouts during a single exposure. It would be easy and cheap to add bits, unlimited exposure lengths, fully electronic image stabilization and other things.
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    What is the consensus? Does anyone think Hasselblad will be releasing another camera besides the H5D like a digital XPan next week?

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    I don't think anyone is actually done announcing. All we got from some OEMs are some tease products. There is more to come, we have not heard the last from Hassy yet and no word from Phase or Leica yet either. Stay tuned
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by markymarkrb View Post
    What is the consensus? Does anyone think Hasselblad will be releasing another camera besides the H5D like a digital XPan next week?
    My consensus is that there are too many cool thing already here or coming ... and not enough money or time

    -Marc
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    It seems to me the technology in digital capture is at a plateau at the moment, certainly in MFD terms and like the newly announced iPhone 5 adding bells and whistles is about all manufacturers can do at present. HB may surprise me but I very much doubt they will this year.

    Most of the interesting innovations in photography are coming in different areas. Have you not seen the new Profoto ProB4 and what it can do, all from a battery!

    Getting comfortable with a camera is much more important than having to have the latest and greatest IMO.
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    I had quite a laugh earlier thinking about what the reaction of the new owner of Hasseblad must be looking at this thread and comparing it to the thread here about the so-called "new" version of the Hy6. In the former thread, there are dozens of posters moaning and groaning about the lack of genuine innovation in the new H5D and the new 24mm HC lens. Nothing revolutionary, but real, tangible improvements in the H4D series and what appears to be a groundbreaking MF lens. In the latter thread, there are a number of posters in rapture over a series of changes in a dead end product that hardly even qualify as "evolutionary" improvements, and the endless dream of a 35mm lens.
    Tough business. Glad I am not in it.
    hcubell
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Thy Hy6 itself is the most advanced MF-system on the market and now is "reborn" - that's what people are excited about, not the "Mod 2".
    The H5D on the other hand plays it save, don't invest serious money into this business (still hoping an MF-EVIL will be developed and paid for by the new owner)...

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post
    Thy Hy6 itself is the most advanced MF-system on the market and now is "reborn" - that's what people are excited about, not the "Mod 2".
    The H5D on the other hand plays it save, don't invest serious money into this business (still hoping an MF-EVIL will be developed and paid for by the new owner)...
    We tested the Hy6 in studio and I invited a die-in-the-wool Rollei user to help us evaluate it. I was pretty impressed, he was not. So, "best in the market" remains subjective.

    My problem with the Hy6 was more about professional concerns than the camera's comparative attributes. Hasselblad and Phase rentals are readably available. There is a local rep with technical expertise readably available 24/7 (I have his cell #).

    That the whole HY6 system was in flux only served to provide a knot in my "business" stomach and an unstable feeling of impending doom ... so I fully understand the elation of a possible revived platform

    However, I also wouldn't discount a slower paced evolution like that of the H system over the past 10 years. Stability in uncertain times is not without merit.
    I do not care if a camera company takes risks, as long as it isn't risking my system investment in time and money. Been there done that with the likes of Contax 645 and N systems ... and Leica R. Not pleasant.

    -Marc
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    Senior Member Swissblad's Avatar
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post
    still hoping an MF-EVIL will be developed and paid for by the new owner...
    I would like a digital Xpan a lot, but I fail to see why people want a MF Evil system, if there still is no 35mm FF equivalent. ....

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by georgl View Post
    Thy Hy6 itself is the most advanced MF-system on the market and now is "reborn" - that's what people are excited about, not the "Mod 2".
    The H5D on the other hand plays it save, don't invest serious money into this business (still hoping an MF-EVIL will be developed and paid for by the new owner)...
    Hy6 --- The big news is that DHW have been given rights to develop hardware and firmware for Hy6, big news since owner to rights is Leaf and of Leaf is Phase One. The other big news is that you can upgrade your existing camera. Is it worth the small price to upgrade existing camera?

    - Improvements to handle detent mechanism
    - Reinforcement to protect housing at handle
    - Modified tripod plate to protect AF engine against long tripod screws
    - AF offset register expanded to more lenses, all AFD lenses included
    - Battery capacity indicator
    - Improvements to fault management
    - Mirror further dampened through firmware

    H5D --- Is it worth the large price to replace existing camera?

    - Hasselblad’s ‘next generation’ H System [exaggerated marketing, it looks same as H4D, what is revolutionary new to justify all pre-hype??]
    - modernised design [different color scheme a'la leica??]
    - complete new electronic engine [how was old one?]
    - largest and brightest optical viewfinder in the market [I bet small compared to Hy6's 6x6 cm WLF]
    - simultaneous raw+JPEG shooting [necessary for MF??]
    - True Focus II technology [much difference??]
    - and more ergonomic buttons [much difference??]
    - new sealing for improved weatherproofing [need it??]
    - optional battery adapter for standalone operation. [not needed for Leaf/Hy6]

    Price for upgrade/replace versus gain??? Seems the joke must be on Hassy for all hype towards what seems so little gained for what will be a large price to replace camera, compared to DHW offering to upgrade existing Hy6:s. I guess that is how Hassy wants to make $$$ of users. Simply us Hy6 users have lucked out, to be offered to upgrade our existing camera seems as a unique treat to loyal customers. Plus of course DHW now have rights to further improve the Hy6 . It is indeed by many regarded and remain the best MF camera on market today.

    And do not take me for slashing Hassy, was actually serious looking to go into the V system with WLF when I came across the Hy6. I would have been delighted to have seen a much complete redesign or new concept of Hassy camera, such as a modern version V. The Hy6 is what a modern V camera should have been like and I am simply thrilled each time using it!
    Last edited by Anders_HK; 14th September 2012 at 13:48.
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post

    I don't know how photographers put up with Alpa, Arca Swiss, Rodenstock, and Schneider. Imagine you have to reset the shutter manually after every exposure. No AF at all. Where is the auto bracketing? Or even the exposure modes? It is about time that manufacturers automated camera movements, especially for the price you pay. Or are tech camera manufacturers exempt from the need to innovate beyond the 19th century?
    Quote Originally Posted by dick View Post
    You can get electronic shutters for pro cameras (Sinar eShutter £1000 + $1,500 per lens) .... and Hasselblad could take my advice and produce their 1/800th sec shutters in standard large format mounts, and get most of the tech-cam market?


    So few photographers understand movements or what they could do for them... but this has been invented, and "he" says he is testing the production model ... are they marketing it yet? (I am not holding my breath any more).
    They, GFAE, emailed me today, telling me that they will start shipping after PhotoKina, see my GFAE CapCam thread

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    Hy6 --- The big news is that DHW have been given rights to develop hardware and firmware for Hy6, big news since owner to rights is Leaf and of Leaf is Phase One. The other big news is that you can upgrade your existing camera. Is it worth the small price to upgrade existing camera?

    - Improvements to handle detent mechanism
    - Reinforcement to protect housing at handle
    - Modified tripod plate to protect AF engine against long tripod screws
    - AF offset register expanded to more lenses, all AFD lenses included
    - Battery capacity indicator
    - Improvements to fault management
    - Mirror further dampened through firmware

    H5D --- Is it worth the large price to replace existing camera?

    - Hasselblad’s ‘next generation’ H System [exaggerated marketing, it looks same as H4D, what is revolutionary new to justify all pre-hype??]
    - modernised design [different color scheme a'la leica??]
    - complete new electronic engine [how was old one?]
    - largest and brightest optical viewfinder in the market [I bet small compared to Hy6's 6x6 cm WLF]
    - simultaneous raw+JPEG shooting [necessary for MF??]
    - True Focus II technology [much difference??]
    - and more ergonomic buttons [much difference??]
    - new sealing for improved weatherproofing [need it??]
    - optional battery adapter for standalone operation. [not needed for Leaf/Hy6]

    Price for upgrade/replace versus gain??? Seems the joke must be on Hassy for all hype towards what seems so little gained for what will be a large price to replace camera, compared to DHW offering to upgrade existing Hy6:s. I guess that is how Hassy wants to make $$$ of users. Simply us Hy6 users have lucked out, to be offered to upgrade our existing camera seems as a unique treat to loyal customers. Plus of course DHW now have rights to further improve the Hy6 . It is indeed by many regarded and remain the best MF camera on market today.

    And do not take me for slashing Hassy, was actually serious looking to go into the V system with WLF when I came across the Hy6. I would have been delighted to have seen a much complete redesign or new concept of Hassy camera, such as a modern version V. The Hy6 is what a modern V camera should have been like and I am simply thrilled each time using it!
    IMO, the HY6 and 645 type systems are different animals. I understand the love of the HY6, and yes, it is what the V system could have evolved to ...but it didn't. Fortunately for folks like you, Rollei did.

    All in good sport ... my answers tit-for-tat (bad back has me sleepless, so I have time to burn)

    H5:
    - modernised design [different color scheme a'la leica??] Yes, what many have bitched about since the H1 ... but also smaller/more compact. How much remains to be seen.
    - complete new electronic engine [how was old one?] I'm sure more streamlined power management and speed was required as the meg count increased and internal processes became more complex, especially 50MS and 200MS machines.
    - largest and brightest optical viewfinder in the market [I bet small compared to Hy6's 6x6 cm WLF] brightest for 645 which is the largest DB available ... pretty bright with exact viewing of the taking area not floating crop lines.
    - simultaneous raw+JPEG shooting [necessary for MF??] YOU BET! Commercially allows quick remote client review, and if tethered to LR should allow fast capture sequences/bursts for less demanding work and quick internet posts.
    - True Focus II technology [much difference??] Don't know yet. That remains to be discovered at or after Photokina. Current AF system murders the HY6 in every way, this will just distance it even further.
    - and more ergonomic buttons [much difference??] YES. Since the H camera allows key control operation without removing your eye from the viewfinder (camera comp, ISO, flash comp, AF mode, motor mode,meter area, instant one button WB) the more tactile the buttons, the easier it is to select and set them. The three key, most used buttons on the grip have a nipple on the middle one so you can swiftly determine where you are without looking. It is little stuff like this that makes the H so fast to use.
    - new sealing for improved weatherproofing [need it??] You are kidding right? Isn't the ground up design HY6 weather sealed?
    - optional battery adapter for standalone operation. [not needed for Leaf/Hy6] Is needed for the H system since the whole camera is integrated as one, with one power source. Battery not needed if tethered on a tech camera. This is for stand alone untethered.

    HY6:
    - Improvements to handle detent mechanism > was the old one shyty?
    - Reinforcement to protect housing at handle > was the old one weak, subject to damage?
    - Modified tripod plate to protect AF engine against long tripod screws > damage thru bad design?
    - AF offset register expanded to more lenses, all AFD lenses included > old one limited in lens selections?
    - Battery capacity indicator > previously working blind to battery capacity?
    - Improvements to fault management > Previous poor fault management?
    - Mirror further dampened through firmware > bad mirror slap?

    Sounds like the Hasselblad features improvements to already excellent components, and the Hy6 needs fixes for design mistakes. Big difference.

    Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    I am still holding my breath waiting for Hasselblad to say: Oh, by the way, we are also introducing a brand new mirrorless camera system, the 2FFO and the 2FFE ..

    I know, only a fool believes promises, such as the Hasselblad statements below:

    --- "We are proud to have such an iconic brand in our portfolio and are convinced that with solid financial support and a suitable growth strategy, Ventizz can further strengthen Hasselblad's position as the first-class producer of medium-format digital camera systems. Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers," said Helmut Vorndran, managing partner and CEO of Ventizz Capital Partners. ---

    And:

    --- Hasselblad CEO Larry Hansen said his company is looking forward to exploring "brand new markets". ---

    I can see Larry Hansen's statement coming from a non-technical, non-photographic executive misinterpreting the enthusiasm of a nearsighted chief engineer for something newsworthy in the photographic world.

    But worse, I can also see this myopic enthusiasm repackaged and delivered to their new, non-photographic venture capital owners in an attempt to sell themselves based on an illusion of a new and bigger roll in the photographic market.

    And yes, it can be done Hasselblad, but first you have to step out of the woods so that you can get a glimpse of what is happening in the "new market" that you want to be part of.
    Last edited by Bengt Nyman; 16th September 2012 at 06:51.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Call me a fool, an old fool at that. Oh, my my my. I hope you don't have to eat your words. In the US we call it eating crow. We'll see on Tuesday.

    Greg

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by BANKER1 View Post
    I hope you don't have to eat your words. We'll see on Tuesday. Greg
    For the sake of Hasselblad, and their many attempts to refinance and find a new market, I will gladly eat some crow. Hasselblad is close to my heart and their marching to a fading drum worries me.
    I would love some good news on Tuesday. I am prepared to lunch any which way you suggest.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Sounds like the Hasselblad features improvements to already excellent components, and the Hy6 needs fixes for design mistakes. Big difference.

    Marc
    Marc,

    Not meant to step on anyones toes. As I stated, it all comes down to price for upgrade/replace vs. gain. The obvious question if being sold new camera will lead to worthwhile improvements in images or is based on primary marketing by the vendor. Perhaps I do not know the H but the improvements seemed a tad lame compared to the marketing hype? If I am wrong, I am happy there now is a better H camera, lets have a drink about it

    Regarding Hy6, what I was told by Mr. Hartje, CEO @ DHW in a telephone conversation last friday;
    - Mechanical improvements due to listening to customers among who are limited cases where there had been issues. Hardly on level of faulty design but per what I understand to further improve durability. Had there been many issues I am certain we would have heard of them, but I have read nada of such. But for the tripod mount does not sound good that a long screw can damage the AF engine which he said is expensive, but who on (&^*&#@$ uses a long tripod screw???
    - Firmware improvements are due to listening to customers for improvements to an already good design.
    - The fact that they offer upgrade of existing bodies because they value their customers.

    Would have not minded at all if Hassy had a similar V body, happy to sit down and look over your H any time. It is a tool too

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Marc,
    I'm happy about the H5 but I wonder how many will upgrade just for those improvements? And while this is a HB thread, I do have to comment that when you knock the Hy6 wrongly, you are probably forgetting the issues of the original H camera and indeed H2 as well. Probably the H wasn't really great until the H3. I don't shoot H but it would likely be my choice if the Rollei platform didn't exist. But still you have to look at it all truthfully. Read the posts on the Hy6 here and on LuLa. Most of the users were quite satisfied with the first version which is something you can't say about the first H body. Hasselblad is into this for 5 generations now. Comments about 'design' flaws are off base. If you want to talk about design flaws - the mamiya 645 platform is your whipping boy. There's a camera that's gone through the most design generations and still has flaws.
    Last edited by EH21; 16th September 2012 at 09:06.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bengt Nyman View Post
    I am still holding my breath waiting for Hasselblad to say: Oh, by the way, we are also introducing a brand new mirrorless camera system, the 2FFO and the 2FFE ..

    I know, only a fool believes promises, such as the Hasselblad statements below:

    --- "We are proud to have such an iconic brand in our portfolio and are convinced that with solid financial support and a suitable growth strategy, Ventizz can further strengthen Hasselblad's position as the first-class producer of medium-format digital camera systems. Furthermore, we plan to develop Hasselblad cameras to appeal to a wider circle of ambitious photographers," said Helmut Vorndran, managing partner and CEO of Ventizz Capital Partners. ---

    And:

    --- Hasselblad CEO Larry Hansen said his company is looking forward to exploring "brand new markets". ---

    I can see Larry Hansen's statement coming from a non-technical, non-photographic executive misinterpreting the enthusiasm of a nearsighted chief engineer for something newsworthy in the photographic world.

    But worse, I can also see this myopic enthusiasm repackaged and delivered to their new, non-photographic venture capital owners in an attempt to sell themselves based on an illusion of a new and bigger roll in the photographic market.

    And yes, it can be done Hasselblad, but first you have to step out of the woods so that you can get a glimpse of what is happening in the "new market" that you want to be part of.
    You may turn blue before that happens Bengt But then you can have a Hamburger instead of eating crow on the 18th

    Yes indeed, some Hasselblad engineers may have pulled the wool over the technologically saavy Ventizz, who's portfolio is almost all high tech companies, because they are dumber than a bag of hammers and their financial guys don't investigate the market they are entering. Then the horror of it ... the world shall cease to spin and the sky will fall. It'll make a good disaster movie directed by Roland Emmerich ... "Hasselblad 2012, the Apocalypse".

    Who knows what time line they are on, which may or may not line up with Photokina? Who knows what "new markets" they are speaking about? It doesn't necessarily have to be those represented on this forum ... the photo world is a pretty big place.

    What I do not quite understand myself ... and I am one of those photographers you reference ... what you are talking about that needs to be done? People have mentioned technology that isn't even available on the latest 35mm DSLRs, let alone MFD. Probably for good reason.

    Should Hasselblad have implemented half-baked technology into their flagship camera? If they had made the H5 a EVF camera, my H4D would have been my last H camera. I'm even suspicious about MF CMOS as buying an unknown.

    The 18th may or may not bring additional news ... one way or the other the H5 is on my radar and I'll know by the end of the week where my money goes (unless the wifey gets wind of it and wants the Kitchen redone instead ) ... because I am actually buying something, not just grousing about something I'm not in the market for.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Compare to Leica, Hasselblad looks more like a dying old man. The strong come back of Leica and Nikon should teach the management of Hasselblad a good lesson, they never give up (or dump) their customers. You can still put on your aged Leica/Nikon lens to you Leica M8.9.10, or Nilon D4 body. Hasselbad totally reinvent they camera with H body, and cutting all support to V Lens, and making their faithful customers' investment totally vanished. If your customers hate you, they wou't come back. And I never see any company success by dumping their customers.
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Tell the leica R fans that Leica don't dump their customers.
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Without warning too. Cold as dry ice move.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    You have forgotten the Hasselblad CF adapter. Full use of the C# lenses and even includes focus confirmation. How can that be cutting support?

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by EH21 View Post
    Marc,
    I'm happy about the H5 but I wonder how many will upgrade just for those improvements? And while this is a HB thread, I do have to comment that when you knock the Hy6 wrongly, you are probably forgetting the issues of the original H camera and indeed H2 as well. Probably the H wasn't really great until the H3. I don't shoot H but it would likely be my choice if the Rollei platform didn't exist. But still you have to look at it all truthfully. Read the posts on the Hy6 here and on LuLa. Most of the users were quite satisfied with the first version which is something you can't say about the first H body. Hasselblad is into this for 5 generations now. Comments about 'design' flaws are off base. If you want to talk about design flaws - the mamiya 645 platform is your whipping boy. There's a camera that's gone through the most design generations and still has flaws.
    Upgrades are an interesting subject themselves. We have to remember that many of these cameras are working in "day-in-day-out" conditions, and are on a depreciation path of two to three years. Not all MF systems are employed by "gentlemen photographers" .

    Before semi-retiring, I was pretty much on a 2-3 year cycle ... commercial digital capture fees and depreciation usually brought it to zero, and I'd trade up to the next model whether it was a soft upgrade like the H3D to H3D-II ... or H3D-II to the more substantially different H4D, with new backs, TF and higher res LCD.

    Personally, I wouldn't tag this H5 as an even semi-substantial upgrade until I actually better understand the performance enhancements ... they seem to address what I really wanted to be better, but to what degree I do not know yet. IMO, it is not a substantial one because the backs are the same and no surprise game changing technology was added like True Focus.

    My HY6 comments were just answering a skewed approach with an equally skewed one ... I don't believe any of it ... they are both fine cameras in their respective categories, and just provide us with choices based on our own needs.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyngai View Post
    Compare to Leica, Hasselblad looks more like a dying old man. The strong come back of Leica and Nikon should teach the management of Hasselblad a good lesson, they never give up (or dump) their customers. You can still put on your aged Leica/Nikon lens to you Leica M8.9.10, or Nilon D4 body. Hasselbad totally reinvent they camera with H body, and cutting all support to V Lens, and making their faithful customers' investment totally vanished. If your customers hate you, they wou't come back. And I never see any company success by dumping their customers.
    This is incorrect.

    I used my V lenses for years on my H system. But don't let the facts get in the way.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Without warning too. Cold as dry ice move.
    Boy, ain't that the truth. R cut off was the 2nd worst gear event in my shooting life ... the 1st being Kyocera's abrupt exit with me and others holding the Contax 645 and N bag, standing in the street in our undershorts during rush hour. Ugg.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Hasselblad invented the CF adapter to help the H system and to lube the transition but not to support the V system. IMO.
    Eduardo



    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    This is incorrect.

    I used my V lenses for years on my H system. But don't let the facts get in the way.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    No one is done announcing anything as far as I am concerned until at least the 3rd day of Photokinia. Starts Tuesday so until than anything is possible.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Should Hasselblad have implemented half-baked (EVF) technology into their flagship camera? -Marc
    Of course not !
    I am not talking about Hasselblad's top of the line products.
    I am suggesting that Hasselblad brings out an additional product in form of the worlds first mirrorless, XLF, mega pixel, high IQ camera system.
    Why mirrorless ?
    Because you can not achieve ultimate focus through a mirror and secondary sensors. Final focus must be done on the image sensor, by the image sensor.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ?..are on a depreciation path of two to three years..."
    That may be, but... not making the investment at such time would instead result in the possible investment as earing kept.

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ... they seem to address what I really wanted to be better, but to what degree I do not know yet. IMO, it is not a substantial one because the backs are the same and no surprise game changing technology was added like True Focus.
    In no mean did I intend a skewed view of the H, but rather point out that what is point of being sold repeat new camera when nothing substantial. Seems we should require better products from start rather than being over marketed to spend (waste) money on such replace and on learning yet another version of the camera.

    Reading posts here, seems the marketing hype did not match expectations... while Hy6 Mod 2 and upgrade possibility of existing cameras came as a welcome pleasant suprise.

    (Personally I like photography and am tired of testing gear)

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ... they are both fine cameras in their respective categories, and just provide us with choices based on our own needs.
    Yes, but why did they not keep Zeiss? Fuji in all honor but Zeiss V lenses had a certain character did they not, same as Rollei zeiss and Schneider do? Not bashing but rather from point of view that it would be wishful if they provided also zeiss for H.

    Frankly if Hy6 platform would cease one day (which I certainly and clearly hope not), then I will much rather look at Hassy than Mamiya!

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders_HK View Post
    That may be, but... not making the investment at such time would instead result in the possible investment as earing kept.

    Yes that can be a business model, and I did do that once. However, we then fell quite behind in trade value, so there was no real earnings boost to speak of ... and I was using older technology at a time when MFD needed to up its sensor size and meg game. That may well be different now that the backs are 645 and quite high resolution. For some production shooters, 2-3 years is about the limit where you can get a decent resale value because of shot count.

    In no mean did I intend a skewed view of the H, but rather point out that what is point of being sold repeat new camera when nothing substantial. Seems we should require better products from start rather than being over marketed to spend (waste) money on such replace and on learning yet another version of the camera.

    Also valid, but the relearning aspect is exactly why I prefer the performance aspects be improved rather than introducing a whole new camera that requires starting over. The H camera is pretty darned good as it is, and improving on it is welcome. If they also launch something else in the next few days ... great .

    Reading posts here, seems the marketing hype did not match expectations... while Hy6 Mod 2 and upgrade possibility of existing cameras came as a welcome pleasant surprise.

    IMO, many posts here layered on people's own expectations, some of which do not even exist on recent 35mm DSLRs, or read their own wishes and dreams into company PR quotes ... and then were pissed this version of the H for Photokina didn't meet them. Hasselblad's marketing presentation of the H5 is titled "The Evolution Continues" ... what does that indicate?

    in essence, people are confusing "Conquest" with "Retention" strategies ... Hasselblad said they will be looking to new markets, and I seriously doubt this H5 evolution is the tool to do that ... but it is a good retention product ... stable, sure, and on-going. Evolutionary.

    If the conquest product isn't revealed at Photokina doesn't mean they aren't working on something.


    (Personally I like photography and am tired of testing gear)

    Another reason I prefer evolutionary. I don't mind experimenting with new tech that cost $800-$2,000, like the NEX which I hated, or A77 which I also hated and returned 3 days later. Not really interested in dropping $20K in an experiment. I waited almost two years before getting a S2

    Yes, but why did they not keep Zeiss? Fuji in all honor but Zeiss V lenses had a certain character did they not, same as Rollei zeiss and Schneider do? Not bashing but rather from point of view that it would be wishful if they provided also zeiss for H.

    This is subjective. I used Zeiss for V cameras for 40 years, and continued using them on the H camera for a couple of years ... however, myth verses reality rears it head when you can actually shoot both brands of lenses on the same camera in the same light, which I did ... then sold all the Zeiss lenses. Some Zeiss were fine like the 40IF, but the imaging character of the HC100/2.2 far outweighed that of the 100/3.5CFi, as did the HC150/3.2N and there was no Zeiss 28mm. BTW, I hated the "Chrysler logo" specular highlights from the Zeiss lenses. That is a "character" I can do without.

    Had Hasselblad and Zeiss continued on, who knows what may have come of it. They didn't, so we'll never know one way or another, so worrying about it is a huge waste of time.


    Frankly if Hy6 platform would cease one day (which I certainly and clearly hope not), then I will much rather look at Hassy than Mamiya!

    I wouldn't fret about it ... Phase is surely on the case, maybe even some big surprises in the next few days. I'm hoping so, and rooting for them to further bolster the category
    See answers in bold above.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    I don't think anyone is actually done announcing. All we got from some OEMs are some tease products. There is more to come, we have not heard the last from Hassy yet and no word from Phase or Leica yet either. Stay tuned
    With the close relation between Phase One and Dalsa I will not be surprised if Phase introduced an entry level camera using a sensor similar to this:

    PRESS RELEASE: Teledyne DALSA Announces New Large-Format Full-Frame CCD Image Sensor - Teledyne DALSA

    Note that the sensor has microlenses so it could lead to a similar application like H4D or the Pentax 645. But the chip is BIG.

    I was not expecting nothing extraordinary from Hasselblad, but to catch in terms of sensor technology with the 80 mega pixels sensor.

    The other point is that the 24mm is a HCD.

    For this Photokina they could be ending 4 years later.

    Best regards,

    James

  33. #333
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uaiomex View Post
    Hasselblad invented the CF adapter to help the H system and to lube the transition but not to support the V system. IMO.
    Eduardo
    Right, wrong, or just difference of opinion ... that wasn't the point. The poster said Hasselblad cut ALL support for the V system which in fact isn't true ... as in NOT TRUE!

    10 years after the launch of the H system, you can still use Zeiss V leaf shutter lenses on the H camera. The CF Adapter provides full auto functions, and even focus confirmation that is NOT available on any V camera.

    Hasselblad still offers the 503CW, CW winder, and CFV/50 DB specifically for most any V camera ... and has added DAC type software corrections for V lenses to Phocus and Lightroom.

    How is that like Leica dropping the R system like a hot potato, or Kyocera stomping on the entire Contax line of cameras?

    It is easier to make backwards compatible solutions for focal plane cameras ... not so easy for mechanical age leaf shutter lenses fitted to an electronic age camera, while retaining all auto stop down functions and metering. All V lens adapters to focal plane cameras are dumb, the CF Adapter is not.

    It is either blatant bias, Luddism, or just plain ignorance that relentlessly feeds such untrue statements.

    -Marc
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyngai View Post
    Compare to Leica, Hasselblad looks more like a dying old man. The strong come back of Leica and Nikon should teach the management of Hasselblad a good lesson, they never give up (or dump) their customers. You can still put on your aged Leica/Nikon lens to you Leica M8.9.10, or Nilon D4 body. Hasselbad totally reinvent they camera with H body, and cutting all support to V Lens, and making their faithful customers' investment totally vanished. If your customers hate you, they wou't come back. And I never see any company success by dumping their customers.
    One of the big reasons I have decided to switch to MF instead of just upgrading my d700 to d800e is that Nikon treated me like **** when I complained about banding and noise issues on my d700, after 3 returns when they basically called me an idiot they switched the sensor, however they said they had to change half the chassi/body parts because it was broken and there was something wrong with the viewfinder, problem is I sender it in in near new condition and the postal service was not responsible.. It took me 3 weeks of arguing before the suddenly fixed everything for free. Then I started to look around for used MF gear and I had like 3 dealers searching the web for me and getting back with suggestions and a lot of help in taking the step up to MF and so on.. I would never go back to Nikon after seeing first hand how they treat their customers.. so they certainly lost me as a customer greatly because of the upgrading path from D700 (I don't want super high ISO and film capabilities and automation programs and stuff like that, I want a camera that takes still images in the range of 50-200 ISO and that is what I got with a P1 AF and a P25+ back.. So I will have to disagree on you at that point (however this has nothing to do with hasselblad but just making a point that Nikon customer service (at least in Sweden) sucks balls (if you excuse my french).

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    To come back at the title of this thread... after reading the PhaseOne DF+ announcement I am suddenly much more excited about Hasselblads Pre-Kina announcement and rumor

    There still is a rumor of another announcement coming from HB....
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    It looks like Hasselblad has something for tomorrow.

    Breaking: Hasselblad will release a high-end mirrorless camera | Photo Rumors

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Hasselblad's marketing presentation of the H5 is titled "The Evolution Continues" ... what does that indicate?
    I hear you, point well made. Lets see if something more from Hassy...

    Now compare to the Phase/Mamiya DF+ announcement... indeed I am very I ditched Mamiya. Really beyond my belief how they dare announce another incarnation in the old Mamiya 645 AF body.

    Makes both the H5D and Hy6 Mod 2 shine

  38. #338
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Excellent ! Looking forward to seeing it come true and seeing the details. I have had an order in for a couple of weeks now, just in case.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    There is a press conference on the 18th from 2-3PM ... that is 8AM EST time right?

    The rest is just speculation.

    Does seem like there is something more ... why hold a press conference hoopla to announce something that's already been announced?


    Meanwhile, I'll pass the time looking up recipes for Crow just in case ... what wine goes well with Crow?

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    ... what wine goes well with Crow? Marc
    Hi Marc,
    I'd say a good white wine, a couple of oysters, and you won't even notice it.

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    It's weird how Leica and Hasselblad seem to attract the most criticism on online forums. The H5D seems like a winner to me, especially considering the Phase DF+ is STILL way behind in the body stakes.

    Just saying...
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    It's weird how Leica and Hasselblad seem to attract the most criticism on online forums. The H5D seems like a winner to me, especially considering the Phase DF+ is STILL way behind in the body stakes.

    Just saying...
    Hey, you aint seen nothin yet!

    If the rumoured mirrorless Hassy product turns out to be anything other than a 'full frame' digital X-Pan or a large square format something.... then the bashing will take on a new vigour!

  43. #343
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    It's weird how Leica and Hasselblad seem to attract the most criticism on online forums. The H5D seems like a winner to me, especially considering the Phase DF+ is STILL way behind in the body stakes.

    Just saying...
    So you obviously didn't read the Phase One DF+ thread then.....
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Hi there, I am an h4d-50 user. Been using it now for around 4 months.
    My only real issue is the LCD. Does anybody know what improvements hassy has made on the h5d LCD?

    And have there been any statements regarding upgrade paths?

    Bahr

  45. #345
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by bahr View Post
    Hi there, I am an h4d-50 user. Been using it now for around 4 months.
    My only real issue is the LCD. Does anybody know what improvements hassy has made on the h5d LCD?

    And have there been any statements regarding upgrade paths?

    Bahr
    Speak to your Hasselblad dealer/rep. I already got trade-up pricing.

    What camera firmware are you using? A bit ago, Hasselblad issued new firmware that among other things, doubled the LCD resolution (like that which came standard with the H4D/60). It effected the H4D/40, H4D/50, H3D-II/50, M/S Backs, and CFV/50 sensor units.

    Sensor Unit Firmware R365

    This sensor unit firmware upgrade requires H4D body firmware 2.2.4 and viewfinder firmware 2.2.0

    I think the LCD resolution on the H5D is the same as the upgraded H4D Cameras ... or they forgot to mention a new LCD in the H5 launch promo.

    -Marc

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Hi mark,

    Always find your posts and knowledge of the system extremely insightful.

    I believe I'm on the most current firmware but I purchased my camera used from a studio that was not getting much rental on it. There is a hasselblad dealer here in Dubai but not sure if my situation affects the upgrade paths. Any thoughts?

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Speak to your Hasselblad dealer/rep. I already got trade-up pricing.

    What camera firmware are you using? A bit ago, Hasselblad issued new firmware that among other things, doubled the LCD resolution (like that which came standard with the H4D/60). It effected the H4D/40, H4D/50, H3D-II/50, M/S Backs, and CFV/50 sensor units.

    Sensor Unit Firmware R365

    This sensor unit firmware upgrade requires H4D body firmware 2.2.4 and viewfinder firmware 2.2.0

    I think the LCD resolution on the H5D is the same as the upgraded H4D Cameras ... or they forgot to mention a new LCD in the H5 launch promo.

    -Marc
    Send me the trading up pricing, please!!!
    Tareq

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Does the pricing represent the same costs globally.

    Would really appreciate it if you could post them as the dealer over here is not giving any indications at the moment.

    Hi tareq, I've followed a lot of your posts as well. You are also based in Dubai?

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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    For those of you who Wanted to use Zeiss lenses on a hasselblad body, here's your chance!!!



    Zeiss announces three prime lenses for the Sony NEX and Fuji X system! | Mirrorless Rumors

  50. #350
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    Re: Anyone excited about the Hasselblad rumor and Photokina this year?

    Quote Originally Posted by Professional View Post
    Send me the trading up pricing, please!!!
    See your dealer. My dealer had to have worked a deal based on some form of pricing from the company, but I do not think it has been officially published, and of course also includes my dealer incentives based on long time loyalty.

    Seems very familiar to previous trade ups.

    -Marc

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