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Thread: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

  1. #1
    Shelby Lewis
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    The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Just a little thinking out loud here as an ex-MFD shooter who's still struggling to find gear that satisfies. I understand this is a "personal problem"

    I've really been struggling for a few years finding a home for my photography, gear-wise. Sony... to Canon... to Leaf (my fav, looking back)... to Nikon d800. As some of you have seen, I've been overall pretty unhappy with the d800.

    But that's not what has become apparent in the last month, at least to me.
    (And this post isn't about the D800)

    What has become clear to me... in my case... is that the level of "polish" I've come to expect from my gear has really gone a long way towards frustrating my artistic self. I actually look back at my earlier work when we all shot a maximum 12mp and I felt as though that gear just worked due to the resolution not being able to expose the faults of the imaging systems (focus-wise, et al...). I've gotten great results out of gear since then, but I feel as though a majority of my efforts are spent keeping the gear reigned in in order to produce satisfactory images.

    Where am I going with this? I'm not sure. I can say that the siren call to pick up a 35mm- and 4x5 film set-ups alongside my d800 just so I can shoot a film stock and actually get a consistent "look" is starting ring in my ears. MFD is calling hard again as well...

    But in the end, I'd be interested in thoughts you all, as folks I know who have shot most of the systems out there, have had as to just getting fed up with the digital rat race... that's where I am right now. Fed up.

  2. #2
    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shelby, about 24 years ago I started to shoot a Leica M6 and -at this time - 2 pretty old used and abused lenses - 35 and 90mm. This system worked for me for long time and I still own (but dont really use) the M6.
    In the digital age I have used and replaced many cameras - the only system I have allways come back to was the M system.
    Another system that just works very well for me is the S2.
    I am not saying this to promote Leica products. But I have thought about this a lot and my personal conclusions are:
    + a simple user interface helps me a lot to feel free and to still feel to have the camera under control (regarding the important functions); too many options and buttons confuse me and even if I do know how to dig through menues it turns me off
    + same about lenses - primes make life easier for me because I know know what to expect
    + I dont like post processing - and for some reason the Leica images come out of the camera close to what I personally do like
    + many reviews oversee things like skin color, micro detail and color depth and focus too much just on detail at 100%
    + Every half year I think film is the way to go but after 2 films I get lazy and the film camera gets a 6 month brake
    + even though I have what I need and I know less gear would be better I still jump on new toys - just to sell them 6-12 months later.

    PS: I liked your Mamya 67 shots so much that I allways felt you are "in harmony" with the system and didnt understand why you would sell it. Even though I know it is not the camera but the photographer I believe some cameras work better for somebody and some cameras maybe not so good (for me those overloaded with functions)

    Cheers,Tom
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  3. #3
    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Forest and trees my friend. How many instruments do you go through in a year? Are you always upgrading to the next trumpet?

    You are thinking perfection is in the gear. You are thinking there is some sort of absolute technical perfection. Photography is subjective. That is not simply limited to making pleasing images--a technical reference--but also the qualities such as sharpness, DoF, color, contrast, and a host of other stuff that make a picture. Forget the 1%, you are a 100 percenter.

    Now, tell me. Are you as critical with work from other photographers. Not just talking about your friends, but also those great names that inspire you? Do you say, wow, really nice call on those circles of confusion or are you just taken with the image?

    But enough tongue-in-cheek. You need a break. We all get this way, especially if the minutia of the craft overwhelms you. I have seen your work, you really have a solid foundation in the craft. I think you need to let your hair down and enjoy taking pictures for no more reason than taking pictures. Or even put the camera down and buy an etch-a-sketch.

    I am not sure that answers the question you did not ask, but I am sure it goes a long way to answering something...
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    Senior Member darr's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    It's all about content. If it was Leaf that sparked your smile, go back to it and stay with it. Eventually the content will come.

    Peace be with you my friend!
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    I highly recommend that you try the Hassy H4x with a phase or Leaf back or a Hassy H4D. The truefocus works really well. Especially when shooting portraits at f/2.2. Not sure what subjects you shoot. But it is definitely more accurate for portraits than the Nikon D800 or anything else that I've ever shot.

  6. #6
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Hi Shelby,

    I certainly know what you are talking about. In the last two and a half years I went through several camera systems which I don't want to mention explicitely (I'm in fact the Don Juan of camera platforms and I'm really not proud about it). It seems like nothing can satisfy my demands right now.

    After some back and forth I ended up with a 5D Mk II and despite the fact that it had many great features (live view, high iso, fine focus adjustment, quick af and fast prime lenses just to name a few) and it always performed really nicely, I hated working with it. Don't know why... If used properly IQ was excellent. Under controlled environment you could print up to 120mm x 80mm at 300 dpi! But when mounted on a view camera it became unusable. As soon as I started tilting IQ went down the drain. I probably wanted it to be something it wasn't. Maybe you should reconsider what you expect from the camera you use.

    Right now I'm looking at getting back into mfd which satisfied me the most ever since first capturing an image. I plan on getting an Aptus 22 from a fellow lula member who is kind enough to visit me here in Berlin. I'm not so excited about the resolution of course but the fact that I can use it on my RZ67 and view camera outfit thus letting me use fast flash sync speeds on the one and tilts and shifts on the other system.

    Probably not the smartest idea to blow all that money. My school starts on 6th of August so I won't be shooting anything but bw film for the next year...


    So if you still have your RZ67 I highly recommend shooting some bw film with it. It might be exactly what you're looking for. Easy to develop and very forgiving in terms of focus accuracy.
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    what bugs me is when i look at an image and in retrospect, seeing it enlarged, etc, wish I had done it a little bit different. eventually this will feed back into the gestalt producing a slowly, ever-incrementing improvement?

    could be focus, framing and composition, light/dark, timing, you name it. not necessarily a gear limitation

  8. #8
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shelby,

    I don't know if it's some sort of Freudian-slip or something, but you do realize that you've posted in Dante's Forum.... Then again, you never were given formal permission to leave in the first place!

    Go back to what you enjoy photographing with---and it seems to me that you were most happy with your RZ. Frankly, I think this is a great excuse to upgrade your MFDB at the same time...

    Use what gives you the most enjoyment in photography and the images will start flowing from there.

    I use a DSLR sometimes because I have to. No real joy.
    I use a MFDB because I want to. As quirky as many find the Phase DF, I still enjoy it more than any DSLR and use it for work whenever possible. And the Cambo tech camera is just a return to simplicity and pure enjoyment in photography. All joy.

    ken

  9. #9
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    It's not the gear your in a funk. Takes a lot to get out if it. Been dealing with this for 36 years. Why I buy different gear a lot. It's not the gear at all it's just staying away from dropping into a funk state of mind. People think I buy gear for the next best thing WRONG. It's really to keep me challenged and fresh. I can count at least 5 times in my photo life that it was totally uninspiring in total mass that it took months to get out. Now I buy gear to help me climb out of it. Honestly I'm after challenges as I pretty much can do anything with any cam that's not bragging just fact. I'm after something new and fresh as I get bored shitless very easy with photography these days. I'm pretty sick of the whole thing again as I write this today. Change my life is the answer I'm playing more golf than I ever have almost 3 times a week lately. It's fresh and I'll never conquer it. Again big word challenge. I love photography but I also need to avoid burnout, why I buy new gear for the most part.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  10. #10
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    BTW talent is not your issue. That you got my friend.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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  11. #11
    Senior Member etrump's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Take whatever camera you want to use and go alone to the same spot every day for a couple of weeks. Once you get past shooting all the so so pics you've seen or already have in your head you start taking some pretty good stuff. Spend four or five hours looking at the same tree without taking a shot and she'll start talking to you.

    Which camera doesn't matter, you are technically good enough to use any camera. In fact, don't take anything but a prime standard say 50mm on nikon or 80mm on MFD. Better yet, take your iPhone... maybe not but you get the idea. The pursuit is the reward not the result.

    I think we get weighed down by so much technology our artistic side is blindfolded by our intellect.

    $.02
    Ed Cooley Fine Art Photography
     
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  12. #12
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Great responses... really insightful stuff. These insights resonate with my current place pretty deeply. I've had a few funks, musically, this year as well... seems to be one of those times in my life. Guy, you've nailed it pretty well.

    Ken... I posted here for a reason, my friend, lol. Dante's crowd understands these situations!

    Shashin, that's an interesting take and I'll be honest, I am really critical of others' work but my attitude is always attempting to find the positive in every work, and then critique from there. I've never been fond of my own work, TBH. I'm the same with my trumpet playing.

    The thing with the whole camera issue is this... I just want to open up a file and smile at the overall quality of it, regardless of subject. It's been a long time since that's happened without it seemingly taken an army's worth of effort. The RZ, which I may make it back to, was hard for me to focus... which was a bummer. Beautiful rendering from the aptus and rz glass, but too many oof shots. My eyes are gettin' old, ya know.

    I'm seriously thinking of moving to a 22mp back (less critical focus) and retooling my rz kit... but that aside, I'm still a bit fed up with the tolerances and all.

    Ed... maybe an iphone is what it'll be for a while.

  13. #13
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by etrump View Post
    I think we get weighed down by so much technology our artistic side is blindfolded by our intellect.

    $.02
    This is more like "$100 worth". Thanks Ed.

  14. #14
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Posted something similar a while back on Facebook saying, basically, that I look back at my earlier work and find an artistic freedom not present in the work I'm doing currently ...and one of my mentors and Jazz professors posted this:

    "It seems to me that we listen and look with filters, filters that don't tell us the truth. Then, years later, after the filters have expired we get the real thing, coupled with the memory of what it was like to make it."

  15. #15
    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    It funny, when you start out, you don't know much and the whole thing is fun. Every roll seems to present a new discovery. But things are inconsistent. As you gain control, you don't plays as much, sticking to what you think is what is giving you the best result. Then you really start digging into the technique and that really starts taking over. The "rules" start piling up. You get into a funk.

    The odd thing is you are more consistent, but the magic seems to disappear. With the elimination of the mistakes comes the elimination of the surprises. Yeah, you can nail every shot, but everything is so predictable. The skill has become the problem. The safety of the technique is the enemy.

    You need to break into something fresh. But novelty for novelty's sake is has no interest--fisheye lenses, for example, are boring, sure it is a neat effect, but one that is rather empty. What you need is to step out of the known. Place yourself in situations that are new where the outcome is not guaranteed. Go where you can fail. The problem is how to find that. After years of practice, you have conquered most of what you need to know.

    Magic is never predictable. And magic is really the center of art. It is that something that goes beyond good technique, perfect lighting, and a nice composition. But how can the magician find magic? That is the paradox of performing tricks without knowing you are preforming them. It is adding elements that are beyond your control. It is improvisational Jazz with an unknown partner.

    The "how" is tougher. I have been trying to throw myself into new techniques, new approaches. I have been taking subjects that are not familiar, but not taking conventional approaches. I am not saying to start shooting everything with a toy camera or running everything through an "art" filter. Photography has much more subtly and depth. And I think those who understand that have a harder time to push the boundaries as gimmicks don't work. We need something more than a neat effect.

    And when I find an answer to this problem, i will write a self-help book for photographers and make a fortune.
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Very well said. The gimmicks just don't cut the mustard, it really is taking yourself completely out of your element and reinventing yourself. It's a wash , clean and refold yourself. LOL
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shelby,
    if critical focus is an issue-why dont you move to a MF-system which offers a good AF? I have compared couple of times how accurate I could focus my S2 with the eyes vs AF and most of the times the AF wins (in case of the S2).
    Or maybe the h4d with the true focus.
    Cheers, Tom

  18. #18
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shelby, why did you sell your Aptus II 6 in the first place? Was this all about focussing or did you expect an improvement in the quality of the files?

    If your funk is about achieving critical focus on the RZ you could use something like this: Beattie Intenscreen Focusing Screen - Matte w/ Diagonal 83324
    Looks like the largest diagonal split image screen I've ever seen, if dimensions on the icon were accurate...

    I use a split image focussing screen on the RZ aswell and it helps a lot. If off-center focussing is an issue you could also try something like this:
    Attachment 61601

  19. #19
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    My advice?

    Simplify. Try for a beginner’s mind.

    Try using one camera system for a while (even one lens!), deliberately restricting yourself in what you use, and to achieve your desired results.

    Develop one or more long-term projects that matter to you (for whatever reason) and plug away at them. They may develop [no pun intended] into a exhibition or book project in time; they may not. Are there causes or organisations that you admire, and could photograph for?

    All this may be difficult to juggle when considering paid and unpaid work. Do you currently need to do commercial work to put food on the table?

    In my case, I have had a commercial photography business for nigh on thirty years, but moved into typesetting and then print design around 20 years ago (without ever quite giving up photography), then into web work after I was hired to teach multimedia at TAFE (Australian technical college).

    Now in the process of [semi]-retiring, I have found a new zeal for photography, since going digital in a serious way about five years ago—I have spent too many hours in dank darkrooms developing film and making prints for others to want to do it any more, but you may find that liberating.

    Or a hybrid workflow shooting MF film, and scanning?

    It’s all good, and in some ways we are in a Golden Age.
    Last edited by mediumcool; 31st July 2012 at 05:03. Reason: changed *comparing* to *considering*.

  20. #20
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Thanks Max. I tried a lot of those focusing solutions and got decent with them, including a loupe (6x) for off-center focusing.

    I'll be honest and say I'm not sure why I sold it, artistically. I'll use Guy's words... Funk. I am, however, back in doctoral studies (at 40, with kids) and there was a lot of work I could shoot to pay the bills that the aptus/rz couldn't handle including weddings... the D800 has really helped put some $$$ on the table. There was a real hope that I'd be happy with the camera artistically... the word "synergy" comes to mind... but I'll be the first to go to bat for the d800 as a photographic tool. It's been a real winner. I just don't see any magic in my d800 files.

    S2? I just can't afford it... maybe when I'm out of school, but right now I'm an MF bottom feeder, lol (which is cool with me).

  21. #21
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Mediumcool, your words about film are actually heavy on my mind. I've been seriously looking at 4x5 (for art/work) alongside a 35mm film camera (for my happy snaps) and just forsaking digital for a bit (iphone excepted). I have a slow final year coming up at school where I'll be working predominantly on private projects. Might be a good time to just try something different.

  22. #22
    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Thanks Max. I tried a lot of those focusing solutions and got decent with them, including a loupe (6x) for off-center focusing.

    I'll be honest and say I'm not sure why I sold it, artistically. I'll use Guy's words... Funk. I am, however, back in doctoral studies (at 40, with kids) and there was a lot of work I could shoot to pay the bills that the aptus/rz couldn't handle including weddings... the D800 has really helped put some $$$ on the table. There was a real hope that I'd be happy with the camera artistically... the word "synergy" comes to mind... but I'll be the first to go to bat for the d800 as a photographic tool. It's been a real winner. I just don't see any magic in my d800 files.

    S2? I just can't afford it... maybe when I'm out of school, but right now I'm an MF bottom feeder, lol (which is cool with me).
    This really might come down to better and / or artistic processing. Unfortunatly this is where digital leads you in better technique in post. You want more look like MF than some of this can be done with 2 very simple things first it is light obviously without it you have zilch but getting your head around post is very important which for many gets sidetracked a lot . Yea it's a PITA and a lot of folks hate it BUT it's also the answer sometimes in making it the game changer it's not all about bokeh and stuff like that it's more about what post can bring to the table. In general my advice to all is stop working 15 diffrent software processing programs find one and be a expert at it. That can make the difference. The D800 needs a little more work than MF that's a given so we need to accept that fate .
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  23. #23
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shelby,

    You're an artist! Cameras are tools that allow us to express in ways that are unique and personal. They should integrate in ways that expand your creative process.

    It is absolutely essential that you have a camera that melds your artistic imagination into your creative expression-can there be any other way? Looking at other photographers portfolio's, it's obvious who creates, from those who just observe.

    I've often been criticized for "leap frogging" because I could not find satisfaction,(or reliability). It's those comments that I don't adhere to or respect, but instead follow my passion. It's also the initial price of MFD that fuels this debate and emotions. I started with older Hasselblads, and then to the "H", with the H4D/40, Leica S2, Canon, Sony, Phase one DF, etc.. I sold them all... For me, I needed expression, lighting has greatly added to that as another variable in my art, and for me, the RZ has enhanced my creativity. I often just hold the camera and admire its simplicity, and revel in the fact, that its initial price is a fraction of MFD, but has achieved for me, the best photographs I've ever taken! Your photography will take a dramatic step towards satisfaction, when the right camera rests in your hands. Nothing is obsolete, unless you want it to be.
    Last edited by johnnygoesdigital; 31st July 2012 at 09:19.
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    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    I wonder what medium-format digital was like before the D800...
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  25. #25
    Senior Member MaxKißler's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Some interesting thoughts in this thread. I'm often thinking that I must be an idiot for attaching so much importance on the camera I'm using. I'm aiming on becoming a professional photographer, a problem solver. This is what the kind of photography I want to do is about: Solving problems. Therefore it's the ideas that should matter and less the camera being used.
    However, it's a fact that I'm producing better images with the gear I love using.

    BW film has really helped my photography develop. And I would definitely suggest to shoot more film now and then. Even if it's just for a short period of time, it helps to redefine ones pace with digital.


    Shelby, if your blues is an artistic one maybe you should do something crazy and unpredictable like others have mentioned before me. Keep the D800 to pay the bills and shoot portraits with a large format camera. Use tilts and swings to lay the plane of focus exclusively on the eyes. See where that gets you.

    I don't know, just a thought...
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  26. #26
    richard.L
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    It's not the wand, it is the wizard. So they say.
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    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Man is a rational animal and the camera does not matter.

    After that bit of fantasy, lets talk about the reality.

    Now, I also do work professionally. You could give me a Cheerios box and I can take images for you. But walking around with a Cheerios box around my neck does not blow my hair back. The camera does matter. It can help or hinder the process. I always have a little dating to do with a new camera to get to know it.

    One other thing I find very important that really does not come up often in conversation is format. To me, this is the number one consideration. The square I just fell in love with. The 3:2 I could never come to terms with. I even bought some really great 3:2 cameras--the Konica Hexar AF was a beautiful little camera. It was just too hard to get that magic out of it--the frame is either too narrow for portrait or not wide enough for landscape. The Leica Ms and the X-Pro1 are really tempting cameras, but I know the format is just too much of a struggle for me.

    I know I can crop and, on a professional level, I do what I need to get the result for the client. But the magic of photography for me is in that perfect image that comes straight out of the camera. Sure I tweak the color and contrast, but the essential image is there. As Adams said, it is like god needed someone there to press the shutter button.
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  28. #28
    Senior Member johnnygoesdigital's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Yes, format is a considerable part of the equation. The 6x7 format is my sweet spot because I can crop to square if desired, but not the other way around. The 645 was too small for me, but my H1 was easy to shoot and the most accurate light meter i've ever used. I agree with Max, that shooting film will greatly enhance the experience. The learning curve with digital is less, and most definitely has its advantages, but the character, dynamic range and tonality of film is unmatched, for me...as an artist.
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  29. #29
    Super Duper
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Just a little thinking out loud here as an ex-MFD shooter who's still struggling to find gear that satisfies. I understand this is a "personal problem"

    I've really been struggling for a few years finding a home for my photography, gear-wise. Sony... to Canon... to Leaf (my fav, looking back)... to Nikon d800. As some of you have seen, I've been overall pretty unhappy with the d800.

    But that's not what has become apparent in the last month, at least to me.
    (And this post isn't about the D800)

    What has become clear to me... in my case... is that the level of "polish" I've come to expect from my gear has really gone a long way towards frustrating my artistic self. I actually look back at my earlier work when we all shot a maximum 12mp and I felt as though that gear just worked due to the resolution not being able to expose the faults of the imaging systems (focus-wise, et al...). I've gotten great results out of gear since then, but I feel as though a majority of my efforts are spent keeping the gear reigned in in order to produce satisfactory images.

    Where am I going with this? I'm not sure. I can say that the siren call to pick up a 35mm- and 4x5 film set-ups alongside my d800 just so I can shoot a film stock and actually get a consistent "look" is starting ring in my ears. MFD is calling hard again as well...

    But in the end, I'd be interested in thoughts you all, as folks I know who have shot most of the systems out there, have had as to just getting fed up with the digital rat race... that's where I am right now. Fed up.
    Is it a funk? Who knows. I think a creative funk is different than being constantly distracted from making images by whatever the distraction may be. As Gilda Radner quipped when told she had cancer ... "It's always something."

    The difference is that some distractions are out of our control, and some can be eliminated. In this case, it is the struggle with gear. Generally, if you struggle with anything photographic, it can erode confidence and rob you of the attention that should be placed on the work itself, not the tools that help make it.

    This isn't new, but I strongly suspect it is more intense with the ever changing digital landscape. Everyone is leaping from lilly pad to lilly pad.

    While it is true that with talent you can do good work with anything, the truth is that a good piece of gear that matches your personal vision goes a long way in making that talent shine. The etherial images you made with your A900 simply are not going to happen with an iPhone, to quote an extreme.

    Frankly, I was a bit saddened when you walked away from the RZ/Leaf kit. It seemed you were onto something but flew the coop to soon. I've worked with that kit now for over 15 years, the Hasselblad V series for 30 before moving to the H, and the Leica M for over 40. I'm on my 9th Hasselblad H camera and can play it like a concert pianist. After some costly distractions, my Sony is it ... which is less important because I do not like 35mm DSLRs all that much.

    Given the time, you just master it. It has its short comings and you just find ways around them until it becomes second nature. Nothing comes instantly, and it takes time ... be it a musical instrument or a camera.

    IMO, funk isn't it, the gear isn't it ... it is impatience.

    If you find something that matches your vision, master the damned thing ... the next lilly pad won't be any different, and it actually may not be a fit for you, and then you start the whole silly thing all over again.

    -Marc
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  30. #30
    Senior Member Stefan Steib's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shelby -

    don´t despair, this is normal! I would on your place be concerned if you wouldn´t have these waves of doubt once in a while ! No art without doubt, no beauty without struggle, you have to bleed and sweat and finally catch the moment of ease and certainty, to make your image.
    The camera means nothing. It´s just a black hole with some kind of sensor and a lens in front. Forget about it, center on yourself.
    The best camera is the one you don´t even know it´s there until you have finished your image.

    This is what makes us all brothers, we are addicts of the image and we fight for it, and cry and rumble and search, .....man... what a lot of search.

    It´s a long way, but it´s worth every second to go. I would not want to do anything else !

    With sympathy
    Stefan
    because photography is more than technology - and " as we have done this all the time "
    facebook:hcam.de - www.hcam.de - www.hartblei.de

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    There's no universal answer to this question as we all work differently, but I kind of recognise my own challenges in you post, Shelby. The LF road makes sense, although I'm to lazy to thread that path myself. I ended up buying into GX680 (film only, at least for now) at a cost that forced me to put the obvious plan, upgrading to D800 and OM-D, on hold until next year or whenever.

    The latest, greatest often makes our lives as photographers less challenging, which makes sense. Much has been said about the differences between the D800 and MFD. I wouldn't know since I've used neither, but still it seems obvious that, as long as one can live with the inherent limitations of the somewhat smaller format, the D800 is much easier to live with and cheaper too. The question that arises for me is: Do I always want less challenges? Do I grow on that?

    There's obviously more to photography than the technical side... fortunately much more. But giving oneself challenges on the technical as well as the creative side sometimes makes sense, and sometimes it makes us stronger and more creative. At least it does for me.

    It's like not going across the road to have dinner at the cheap but excellent restaurant there every night, but now and then buy the ingredients and make something myself, even if it's more expensive, even if it takes more time and even if there's no guarantee that the results will be better. But it's home made, by me, and I learned something while cooking it. That has an immense value to some of us.
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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  32. #32
    Shelby Lewis
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    I hear ya, Marc.

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Shooting some velvia in a horseman back on my Rm3di using only a 70mm lens.
    just the thing for the occasional techno-funk.
    ok I could be shooting B&W but I have to use up the velvia first LOL
    -bob

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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    It doesn't count unless you develop it yourself, Bob.

    --Matt

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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    It doesn't count unless you develop it yourself, Bob.

    --Matt
    if it were B&W I would.
    -bob

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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    It doesn't count unless you develop it yourself, Bob.

    --Matt
    I do all sheet film in all flavors in home. Only reason i do 120 at lab is bc i don't have 120 rails for jobo tank

    May i have cookie now? :P

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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Let's look at all this objectively. You sold the Leaf kit because you needed something that could handle wedding work. You bought the Leaf kit because despite the images you made with the Sony, you needed something to feed your soul. You see yourself as a professional, an artist, and a broke student.

    Why not separate things out a bit? D800 (or a900 if you wish) as your professional tool. This camera makes money. When it is in your hand, you are a professional and you are at work. Then buy a RZ with a 110 and your favorite film. This camera is to make art, not money. When it is in your hand you are an artist creating your vision photographically.

    Of course, since you are a broke student, I know where you can get a good deal on an a900.
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    Administrator Bob's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by SergeiR View Post
    I do all sheet film in all flavors in home. Only reason i do 120 at lab is bc i don't have 120 rails for jobo tank

    May i have cookie now? :P
    No, but you may have a cheezburger
    -bob

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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    Mediumcool, your words about film are actually heavy on my mind. I've been seriously looking at 4x5 (for art/work) alongside a 35mm film camera (for my happy snaps) and just forsaking digital for a bit (iphone excepted). I have a slow final year coming up at school where I'll be working predominantly on private projects. Might be a good time to just try something different.
    I don't know Shelby....

    I did the 35, 6x7, 4x5 film thing..with an Imacon scanner and full resources to make it happen.

    Considering that you have two beautiful young children and a life outside of this passion....is it worth spotting a negative for dust at 1 to 2 hours in CS6 to get the same result or fairly similar result to adjusting contrast and curves with the Leaf? Kinda takes the fun out of it.....And the expense is not insignificant....

    Once you have be exposed to MF digital it is very difficult to accept the compromises that are inherent in 35 digital irrespective of the Mpix count.

    Loved everything you showed with the Leaf...and I can understand your angst.

    Bob
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  40. #40
    Senior Member doug's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Lewis View Post
    ... I just want to open up a file and smile at the overall quality of it, regardless of subject...
    I do that with nearly every DMR file. I wish it were bigger, but otherwise at lower ISOs the quality leaves nothing to be desired.

  41. #41
    Contributing Editor ustein's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    I often think what if we would stop making any progress in cameras today and keep them just in good shape. My theory is that the art of photography would not suffer a bit :-). Of course the camera manufacturers would .
    Uwe Steinmueller
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    Editor&Owner of Digital Outback Photo
    http://www.outbackphoto.com
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by ustein View Post
    I often think what if we would stop making any progress in cameras today and keep them just in good shape. My theory is that the art of photography would not suffer a bit :-). Of course the camera manufacturers would .
    I couldn't agree more. If there's one thing I find not necessary to improve my own photography it is more new stuff. (I confess that I still buy it ...).

    Shelby, as others have said you were doing some beautiful work with your Aptus/RZ with a system that was relatively unstressed digitally, optically or mechanically. The good news of course is that buying back in to the system, particularly if you stick with the beautiful rendering of the Aptus II 6, gets cheaper these days vs more expensive.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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  43. #43
    Senior Member mediumcool's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The square I just fell in love with.
    Ideal for LP and CD cover photography, and you don’t need those heavy pentaprisms!
    Last edited by mediumcool; 31st July 2012 at 18:50. Reason: Edited quotation for conciseness; changed *good* to *ideal*

  44. #44
    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill_Green View Post
    Let's look at all this objectively. You sold the Leaf kit because you needed something that could handle wedding work. You bought the Leaf kit because despite the images you made with the Sony, you needed something to feed your soul. You see yourself as a professional, an artist, and a broke student.

    Why not separate things out a bit? D800 (or a900 if you wish) as your professional tool. This camera makes money. When it is in your hand, you are a professional and you are at work. Then buy a RZ with a 110 and your favorite film. This camera is to make art, not money. When it is in your hand you are an artist creating your vision photographically.

    Of course, since you are a broke student, I know where you can get a good deal on an a900.
    All I can say is that you can make money with RZ67 and film as well! No need to get a DSLR to shoot couples, families, portrait and fashion! For sure it would be a hassle to take it to reception to shoot groups! Also, not a good option for sport photography but so many wedding and portrait photographers including make money out of this beast! The great example is Jonathan Canlas who shoots weddings, engagements and families with RZ67 and Contax 645 all on film! It all depends on if you want to embrace the hassle or not! However, that hassle is rewarding!!!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
    Website | Blog | Facebook | Flickr | Vimeo
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    Member Aryan Aqajani's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by docmoore View Post
    I don't know Shelby....

    is it worth spotting a negative for dust at 1 to 2 hours in CS6 to get the same result or fairly similar result to adjusting contrast and curves with the Leaf? Kinda takes the fun out of it.....And the expense is not insignificant....


    Bob
    I only spend 5-10max getting the dusts off the scans! If you spend 1-2 hours in photoshop, you may consider wearing gloves when handling film negs and use air blower before scanning!
    Aryan Aqajani - Photographer in Melbourne, Australia
    Website | Blog | Facebook | Flickr | Vimeo
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  46. #46
    Senior Member thrice's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    I only spend 5-10max getting the dusts off the scans! If you spend 1-2 hours in photoshop, you may consider wearing gloves when handling film negs and use air blower before scanning!
    +1

    Keep your double darks in zip lock bags, vacuum them every now and then.
    load film in a vacuumed changing tent (not bag).
    Wet mount with a betterscanning kit.

    Dust, what's that?

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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aryan Aqajani View Post
    All I can say is that you can make money with RZ67 and film as well!
    That was not the point. Of course you can. This was more a suggestion aimed at Shelby for his needs. I'm pretty sure Shelby is very aware of what the RZ can and can't do.

  48. #48
    richard.L
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Peaches and Regalia -- 7,000 times --
    "you don't have to play every note, every time, the same way. Play the song, not the notes, and we had fun all 7,000 times we played that fn ljlk I(Il "

    from someone else:
    my music isn't the notes, it is the stuff between them.

  49. #49
    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    And.....no reason why you shouldn't have at least two camera systems. This is Dante's Inferno after all.

    So many people it seems try to find that one camera system that can do it all---a jack of all trades so to speak, and in reality (imho) that means compromise at some level, and the brunt of that compromise always seems to hit hardest where it matters most: our own personal satisfaction/gratitude/pursuits in the "art" of photography.

    I recently returned from a trip to the Canadian Rockies, having purposely chosen to bring a Cambo WRS with only one lens and an IR converted little Panasonic GF1. No Phase DF. No Canon DSLR. Why? Because I have the most fun with the Cambo/IQ180 and the GF1. And I had a blast!

    I've always thought that a DSLR and a MFDB were a perfect complement to each other; I've never understood hearing talk of moving from one system (dslr) to another (mfdb). Each are unique and have their place in my studio. But most importantly, don't forget the "fun" aspect in choosing a camera platform(s). Too many people discount the "fun factor" in choosing a camera platform, and that's the one that gives you the most ooomph and satisfaction.

    So from my heart (I know, twisted but sincere), Shelby, be like Jean Girard when you speak to your new RZ (we here in Dante's Forum have already decided you will make this new purchase; it will also make it easier to explain to your wife): "I will battle you with the entirety of my heart and you will probably lose. But maybe, just maybe. You might challenge me. The Beatles needed the Rolling Stones. Even Diane Sawyer needed Katie Couric. Will you be my Katie Couric?" - Jean Girard, Talladega Nights

    Keep the D800 because it rounds out your kit (and earns money too). But, you need the Mamiya RZ with filmbacks and a MFDB.

    Shelby, the Mamiya RZ is your Katie Couric.

    ken

  50. #50
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    Re: The search for "accuracy"... fed up

    Salesman: "Hi Sir, how can i help you?"
    Person: "I want to buy a new camera"
    Salesman: "any particular brand?"
    Person: "I want the best system you have"
    Salesman: "It is not the gear, sir, it is the PERSON behind gear"
    Person: "Yes, you are right, please give me Phase One IQ180 and H4D-200ms and Leica S2 and Pentax 645D and Alpa STC and Nikon D800 and Canon 1DX or 5D3 and ......"




    It will always be wanting and upgrading to new gear over again and again even we are the factor to play behind the gear......










    and the series is continuous......




    after 40-50 years, the person says: "I tried 20 systems, what's wrong with my photography? My skill improved and my gear is latest, and still i can't feel my photography?"

    What is the solution?.....................







    Myself Tareq i have one of 2 solutions:

    1. Shut up and keep shooting with even 100 gear.


    or











    2. Give up and stop photography completely or 95%.


























    GOOD LUCK!!!!!
    Tareq

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