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Question about Hasselblad HTS 1.5

PeterA

Well-known member
That's very nice, but a white lie :) At least wrt. this thread. I learned a lesson here.
We all live and learn..especially hedge fund managers like me. so another day in market purgatory allows me the time to respond..:ROTFL:



Okay, I will be a sitting duck for the following summary of "What Hasselblad Has Done Wrong (TM)", tongue-in-cheek:

- Designed a mickey-plastic-mouse looking body. We do have a sense of aesthetics around here, and two-tone is so out-of-fashion. Worse: they could fix it with each new generation, but don't! Grey, black, dark blue, just not beige, like a cheap PC, or the ceiling in the bedroom.


I agree a nice black body version would be even nicer

- Closed their system after two open generations. This is far, far, FAR worse than just designing a closed system in the first place, and got people really angry. Some are still angry about that one. Some still have H1s and H2s with no intention of upgrading. And they get angrier by the day, as Hasselblad releases lenses they cannot take full advantage of, unless they ditch their Phase One and go H3D.


Well I was an original purchaser of the H1 body so I know what you mean. However, technology has moved on over the last 10 or so years wouldnt you agree? and 10 years later

- Related: bought a not-the-best digital back company for the purpose of going closed. They are in the same ballpark as the others, surely, but as soon as you *take away* the possibility of a slight improvement, people are unhappy. I think there would have been a lot less bitching if they had merged with Phase One. How do you do hour-long exposures with an H3? Answer: you don't.


I have never used an Imacon back - my original back was a Leaf75 ( and I wont go into the lies and broken promises that company spread through its dealer network regarding its upgrade path ) At any rate teh H3d11-39 back I use today - compared to teh P45+ I also use...well lets just say .twh blad is in NO WAY INFERIOR to the P45+ back - for my purposes

Regarding people and their emotions - people are entitled to their emotions and companies are entitled to compete using whatever business model works for them - ultimately survival is the benchmark.

Regading Hour long exposures - I dont do hour long exposures so I dont really care - and if I ever want to I guess I would use the Phase back.


- Designed lenses which require software corrections for ultimate performance, and market it as better. (Leica are my hairy-chest, all optical, ultimate performance, perfect solution heroes, and I would plan for an S2 if I could change its back and use a waist-level viewfinder, for which I have a weakness). Some of these lenses don't even have the image circle for real 645, so the coming sensors will have people swapping lenses like underwear, but at a much higher loss.


If you ever get the chance to actually USE a 28 then you might change your mind. My benchmark optics are Schneider digitars - not puny 35mm lenses. Against the Schneider 35XL the 28 performas quite well - with al teh advantages of autofocus and lens corrections.

The S2 is an interesting SLR camera - as you sayno WLF ( teh reason I have bought a 205TCC and am about to buy a CFV11 back to go with it. Interesting that Leica will be bringing out boht leaf and focal plane lenses for use on teh one body - I look forward to seeing the system - but I wnt make the mistake ( thsi time ) of being a beta tester for it. using my own money. If/When I do buy the S2 - I knwo it wont be Hasselblad that goes.

I am sure yoru comment re "real 645" is a joke suffice to say that @ 39 megapixels I ahve more than enough resolution to crop a shot in any aspect I like
.

- Switch from a traditional German lens company (Zeiss) to a less-well-known, and less-well-respected Japanese lens company (Fuji, which is less well known as lens maker, but not in general). I am not saying that the lenses are worse, but you don't muck with people's religion. Okay, perhaps Zeiss turned them down but it is still Hasselblad's fault. Somehow.


I have a CF adaptor that allows full AE shooting for all C/CF/CFE and CFi lenses so I guess apart from one or two Zeiss FE type lenses I like I get to use all the Zeiss formulations I choose to. However - as I said before if I dont need autofocus etc - I prefer these lenses on a 200 or 500 series body


btw Fuji make outstanding lenses - their XPan lenses convinced me of that - talk to photographers who still swear by the large Fuji studio cameras and you will discover that some of these lenses are cherished


- Drop prices massively with no warning. Anyone who has bought a Hasselblad H3D-39 or 33 recently must feel just shafted, but rudely.


I bought my H3D11-39 2 months before the massive price drops - so I felt the pain. The camera system is no worse today though in working terms than it was when I bought it


- And the latest: add optics to a bellows! Why not just release a new lens with sufficient image circle to achieve the same as the 28mm, or even better, release the bellows with a mount to use existing LF lenses, like the Rodenstock or Schneider. Oh, I know, maximize profits. While it is a very clever design, every extra optical element reduces performance, especially when the original optics were not designed with it in mind, which I presume is the case for at least some of the supported lenses. It is like a tele-converter, but in reverse. It may be really good, but it is still worse.

I am sure a full blown view camera system would do a better job - however the price and lack of portability should also be factored in.
The proof of quality is in the images that are made - not chat room BS ( I am sure you well understand this) I look forward to the HTS - and hope it serves my purposes well - time will tell.


So, there you have it: innocent as a lamb. I understand Hasselblad's decision, but they are rather selfish, and I understand the dissatisfied users too.
I was very upset with Hasselblad for closing their system - till I started to see the benefits delivered. I will never buy a Leaf product again - because they lied about the upgrade path to the AFi - as in FLAT OUT LIES - the Afi / Hy6 was to be my get out of Hasselblad strategy.

The more I look into the MFD scene - the more I see the companies all have major issues. So I now have stopeed worrying about most of the stuff that people worry about. I am more interested in using the stuff I already have. i wont be upfgrading to another chip from anyone - until perhaps a full frame 6x6 chip arrives even @39 megapixels - the storage regime required is taxing me and my patience.

I am excited about ordering the CFV11 + 500 + 40CFi kit - that will round out my Hasselblad leaf and focal plane capablities.

So once everything is sorted I may have a great priced P45+ value added deal with body to sell as well as a complete RZ system to suit. Everyone likes diferent things
:thumbup:
 

fotografz

Well-known member
So much passion about this stuff. Vitriol and counter point. :wtf:

Maybe, just maybe, if we all put more of energy and passion being wasted on what color a camera is or whether this or that lens is better than the other, then perhaps the photography would get better ... huh? :thumbup:

You get and use what you need and works for you ... all the rest is fondler musings or internet chatter ... usually about something people haven't even used themselves ... and all to often from folks using $30,000 MF digital gear to produce aggressively derivative post card images, and leaves on the driveway after it rains. :ROTFL:
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Taking a bit of artistic license in making your post Marc?
Where is the 'vitriol' in this thread?

If people wish to take pics of leaves on driveways with their gear - thats just fine too I think - personally I wish I lived in a climate that actualy produced autumnal colours - one gets tired of desaturated olive green eucalypts :)

however - your point re use teh stuff is well made. Personally its about time I started shooting again rather than buying stuffto fondle:ROTFL:

staring at Bloomberg screens oveer teh last year trying to stay on the bucking bronco market - has taken its toll.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
and all to often from folks using $30,000 MF digital gear to produce aggressively derivative post card images,
Did I hear my name mentioned? :)ROTFL:) Seriously, sometimes I feel I could do "my work" just as well with a decent cell phone for all the concern clients seem to have over what went into it.

But back to the topic at hand: The fact is all of the major MF players have their unique benefits to offer --- problem is they all have their list of negatives that go hand in hand. And there is no perfect solution. I think Hassy has designed a very useful tool here, and should be commended. Sure, we'd all love a 24 tilt shift lens that offered 20mm of shift, 20 degrees of tilt and maintained perfect performance from corner to corner. Aint gonna happen in our lifetime though. This device can be used with existing lenses, so offers the advantages of movements across a larger range of focals than any other manufacturer. IF it works well, it may be the incentive that pushes me over the edge from Mamiya to Hassy...

PS: I get to demo it at my local dealer this Thursday :)

Cheers,
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Leaving me in the dust bud. LOL

Actually the Hassy would be the only system i would switch to presently. Maybe the S2 next year BUT I am getting great images so how much do i want to shoot myself in the head is the question.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Leaving me in the dust bud. LOL

Actually the Hassy would be the only system i would switch to presently. Maybe the S2 next year BUT I am getting great images so how much do I want to shoot myself in the head is the question.
I think that is EXACTLY the point Guy. You have what you need to get the job done for what you do. So do I, and so do other people I'm sure.

But we're not all the same, nor need the same things. If I had a back that could do 1 hour exposures it would never, ever get used. I do not have the need, nor have I ever had the need. Useful to some, useless to me.

The way business is today, I sure don't want to shoot myself in the head either. The tools I presently have better be good because that's it for the foreseeable future.
 

Guy Mancuso

Administrator, Instructor
Right on brother. My buy finger has been cut off. It all better work because it is not going to change anytime soon. LOL

Really the bottom line when you look at MF in general is everything and the systems all have some compromise. The trick like anything else in life is what has the least you can live with.
 

Jack

Sr. Administrator
Staff member
Leaving me in the dust bud. LOL
On gear??? That's frigging impossible! :ROTFL:

Seriously, not planning to jump ship as I am very, very happy with my current outfit. Doesn't mean I can't lust after a tidbit I like...
 

rmueller

Well-known member
Hmmh, so much noise for a simple question that was partially answered
by myself. That was certainly not my intention.

Thanks Nick-T for double-confirmation, i placed an order last Saturday and
might get the chance to test a HTS1.5 over a weekend later this year.

I'm not sure I'd like to comment on the other stuff, I bought a H3DII-31 kit
at photokina, I'm grateful they dropped prices since otherwise i would not
own a MFDB.

So I'd like to chime in with Marc, lets get back to photography.

Ralf.
 

carstenw

Active member
This does put in proper perspective your inaccurate comments about the HTS. [G]
BTW, which medium format digital back do you use?
I own a Hasselblad 500C (ancient) and a Contax 645 system, for which I am saving up for a Sinar e54LV. I don't own a digital back at the moment, but the last time I checked, that wasn't necessary for having an opinion :)

My Hasselblad comments *are* tongue-in-cheek, but those are the things I have seen people upset about in my travels.

I should mention that in spite of all the issues, Hasselblad does seem to be the company which has their strategy most firmly in hand, possibly except for Sinar, but Sinar's strategy is very much focused on the larger system aspects, with Hasselblad focused on the HxD MF system only, and maximizing the use of that. In fact, Hasselblad's strategy resembles the DSLR strategy more and more. Make one system do as much as possible, even if not everything is best-of-breed. Actually, maybe the new HTS is more like a modern-day version of Leica's Visoflex! LOL
 
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PeterA

Well-known member
I own a Hasselblad 500C (ancient) and a Contax 645 system, for which I am saving up for a Sinar e54LV. I don't own a digital back at the moment, but the last time I checked, that wasn't necessary for having an opinion :)

My Hasselblad comments *are* tongue-in-cheek, but those are the things I have seen people upset about in my travels.

I should mention that in spite of all the issues, Hasselblad does seem to be the company which has their strategy most firmly in hand, possibly except for Sinar, but Sinar's strategy is very much focused on the larger system aspects, with Hasselblad focused on the HxD MF system only, and maximizing the use of that. In fact, Hasselblad's strategy resembles the DSLR strategy more and more. Make one system do as much as possible, even if not everything is best-of-breed. Actually, maybe the new HTS is more like a modern-day version of Leica's Visoflex! LOL
I wish I could edit my posts and remove them - all of my posts actually. Good luck and best wishes.
 

yaya

Active member
I will never buy a Leaf product again - because they lied about the upgrade path to the AFi - as in FLAT OUT LIES - the Afi / Hy6 was to be my get out of Hasselblad strategy.
Peter do you have any hard proof of these so called flat out lies? Any written documentation/ ads or quotes from someone at Leaf?
 

PeterA

Well-known member
No communication from Leaf yaya. However 'Leaf' has never 'sold' a back to anyone have they?

You can PM if you like - happy to take you through the whole sorry saga.

OR you can 'engage' on the forum - open transparent and public. I am relaxed either way.
 

yaya

Active member
Peter hi,

Would be good if you can shed some light here, If someone told you something about the AFi that did not happen I'd like to know what it was and what could be done on our end to prevent this in the future.

Many thanks

Yair
 

PeterA

Well-known member
Well yaya - I was 'sold' an Aptus 75 because the Afi was only a few months away. I was 'told' that the Aptus would just go on to the Afi. 2 weeks after purchase your 75s was announced. I was told that I would be 'upgraded' at the same time as the Afi arrived for no cost - given the 'unfortunate timing' of my purchase.

Well I got tired of waiting after a year and half. I got angry that my free upgrade to 75s was no longer free. And I became very angry when informed that hmmm actually you cant use your back on the Afi. Then told that my camera was worth 1/3 of what I paid as a trade on the Afi.

This summarises a lot of to and fro.

Very disappointing.

There is more ..but well- what can I say except for those who wish to purchase these MFD systems - be very very careful who your dealer is.

Hope this helps yaya.

Best
Pete
 

carstenw

Active member
Maybe the best solution here is to ask for everything in writing, on official letterhead. I think it is not always possible to know when your dealer is going to flake out, especially since some seem to give mostly good, but occasionally bad, or like here, horrible, service. It is not possible to avoid making promises about the future, but it should be possible to put everything in writing.
 
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